148:. Notwithstanding, considering her family history, such assertion is chronologically impossible. Jean-Nöel Mathieu raises the fundamental objection that Eble I (who died in 1033), could not have had a sister who was still alive in 1081, instead he argues that she must have been confused with the wife of Manasses II. The historian Alan V. Murray remarks that Mathieu's suggestion 'would fit the chronology of the Roucy family better since it would place the connection with the Rethel family one generation earlier than that given by the genealogies of Foigny';
185:, written in the 12th century, indicates that Manasses III was married to a daughter of Godfrey III. This would also explain the connection between the two Baldwins of Jerusalem, as well as the fact that Godfrey made a donation to Manasses in 1065. Murray says that the primary sources suggest that kinship between Baldwin I and Baldwin II "was not particularly close", and that Baldwin II was most probably related to his predecessor's mother,
170:
of
Jerusalem. However, Murray objects that there is no allusion of this daughter nor of any other connection between the Rethel and Boulogne families in Genealogica comitum Boloniensium', a compilation of the Boulogne genealogy which was being copied and extended by the mid-twelfth century, when the
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of 1065: Godfrey II, Duke of Lower
Lorraine and his wife Beatrice confirm a donation made to Count Manasses and his son Renauld. The problem here is that nothing indicates this Manasses is the Count of Rethel or another Count Manasses who lived in the same
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mentions his death without specifying a date, but the context allows us to estimate his passing to have happened c. 1080. Hugh I appears as Count of Rethel shortly after.
370:
Murray, Alan V. (Spring 1992). "Dynastic
Continuity or Dynastic Change? The Accession of Baldwin II and the Nobility of the Kingdom of Jerusalem".
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298:. Vol. Occasional Publication of the Linacre Unit for Prosopographical Research Vol. 4. Oxford: Linacre College. pp. 173–174.
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Manasses III married Judith (born c. 1035), whose origins are unclear. Several hypotheses have been proposed to clarify this:
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descendants of
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Little is known about his life, although he is mentioned often between 1048 and 1081.
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Mathilda of Leuven: this proposition would explain the kinship between the kings
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perhaps Renaud, if this son existed he probably died between 1066 and 1081.
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Murray, Alan V. (2000). Settipani, Christian; Keats-Rohan, K.S.B. (eds.).
175:, would have been the daughter of Manasses II and Dada (Yvette) de Roucy;
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Mathieu, Jean-Nöel (1997). "Sur les comtesses de Rethel au XI siècle".
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cites an Iveta (Yvette), wife of
Manasses de Rethel, as the sister of
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331:"Albericus de Cociaco…cum Adela uxore sua et matre eius Mathilde"
329:, this note also refers to a certain Mathilde, wife of Liéutad:
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The
Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem: A Dynastic History 1099-1125
144:". This is the traditional genealogy given for her grandson,
421:. Volume 5 de Recuil des Croisades, Historiens occidentaux.
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L'Histoire des Comtes de Rethel et les Comtes de
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La
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136:and Liétaud de Marle. The Chronicles of
100:). He succeeded his father as Count of
404:. revue historique ardennaise 32: 3–19.
357:, vol. 23 (Hanover, 1874), pp. 631-950.
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