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while MOSLINK might not say that this should not be done, MOSLINK is only a guideline, and common sense dictates that you keep links separate. Especially when your argument from two days ago was "readers might get confused". This is precisely what I was talking about when I told you not to restore your preferred version of the page because that is your preferred version of the page, and not because of the merits of those edits. You accuse others of breaking WP:OWN, but this is a perfect case of trying to OWN an article: we have two versions of a caption that effectively say the same thing, but the only difference is that one is clearer than the other. You are consciously choosing the unclear version, for no reason at all.
1115:"fine". It might be something I would consider to be acceptable from one of my Year 7 students, but for our intents and purposes, it is not. We should be recounting the events in the order that they occurred - DJR returned the REC to Triple F, who attempted to secure a budget for the season, but were unable to do so, and so gave it back to VESA. But for some reason, one editor seems to be prioritising Triple F's ownership of the REC, evebecauseh they have not used it for two years. And since the sequence of events essentially involves the same action twice - handing and REC back - prioritising Triple F's original ownership has led to awkward and clunky sentence structure.
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preferred version of the article when the only difference is that someone has taken the content and improved upon it. Nothing has been added or removed, but simply refined. Which is odd, because you admit that you can phrase things in a "less than perfect fashion", and yet you refuse to accept edits that simply improve upon what has been written.
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except that he was replaced by Robert
Dahlgren. And given your logic behind trimming down Premat's entry, we might as well cut the whole thing down to "Robert Dahlgren replaced Alex Premat", because if details of Premat's place in the sport are not important, then no driver should have any details attached to their entries.
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difference that a break line, or the lack thereof, has. But the casual reader may miss the subtle break, or quite reasonably dismiss it as a formatting error. As it stands, the casual reader could assume Greg Ritter is down to drive with Scott McLaughlin, unless they understand the significance of the lack of a break line.
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Who are you to accuse another editor of acting improperly, when your first response to someone raising the issue of grammar in the article is to try and discredit them for unrelated issues? Whatever issues my spelling might have, it does not change the fact that your writing skills are lacking to the
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As I recall, you wanted to limit the details of Van
Gisbergen's retirement and move to Tekno to the 2012 season page because the announcements were made in 2012, even though Van Gisbergen contested the entire 2012 season and the changes did not take effect until 2013. Which made no sense at the time,
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If a reader has "no clue" as to who Alex Premat is they can drill down on the wikilink. Whether a driver drove for a team for 2 or 20 years irrespective of their nationality, is not relevant in the context of the 2014 season. The article is about the 2014 season and should focus on that, rather than
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introduced 'Ingall retired fom the sport'. This is clearly wrong. Regardless of whether he is a participant in the series full time, he has not left the sport, just may have retired from full time driving. We all make errors, or phrase things in a less than perfect fashion, but perhaps editor should
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Instead of talking about the specific - this is a broad brush issue. Drivers who leave a category generally should not be mentioned in the season following. If a driver retires it is a big thing in the season he retires, not the next one. If he is just replaced then probably he is on the low side of
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4) Finally, your aversion to mentioning the time period is misplaced. Just as we do not give the reader no context, nor do we write a full biography for them. It is noteable that Premat was with the team for two years, and the argument that "we don't say how long Driver X was with his team" holds no
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3) And so on and so forth. If you are going to remove the context from Premat, then you need to remove it from everyone. If you are going to have context for one person, then you need to have it for everyone. You cannot apply one rule two different ways and expect to he a good editor. You need to be
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Articles should be written in such a way that they are entirely self-contained. Someone with no knowledge of the sport should be able to click the random page function, land on the article it through and understand it. Given your preferred version of edits, the reader has no clue who Alex Premat is,
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I don't think there is any suggestion that "casual readers are idiots". It is more tailoring the article to the wider readership who may not have a great understanding of motorsport or wikipedia formatting. Those editing the article have a detailed knowledge of the subject at hand and understand the
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I have restored an older version of the article to fix the caption under McLaughlin's image. The reason for this is because the "Volvo
Polestar Racing" and "Volvo S60" wlinks were next to each other, implying that there is an article titled "Volvo Polestar Racing Volvo S60", which there is not. And
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One of things which annoys me that in these sort of instances is more is written about some competitors who do not compete in a season than some of those who do. It's backwards reasoning. This should be an article on what DID happen in the 2014 season, not what did not happen or happened in 2013.
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are naturally encouraged, but do not be surprised if they get reverted. In that case, you move to the talk page to discuss it. You do not simply restore your preferred version of the article; having your edits on the page does not make them any more credible than if they are removed. Likewise, if
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I find it curious that you accuse me of treating the article as "my own turf", considering that I have never claimed the article as my own. However, you have described it as "turf" and you evidently think it is yours for the taking. All of this is supported by the way you constantly restore your
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1) A reader should not have to "drill down" on Premat's article just to understand who he is and how he fits into the picture. Although this article is about the 2014 season, it does not exist in isolation. There should be done context provided as to who Alex Premat is. After all, we outline who
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The purpose of adding (Car # TBA) next to a co-driver is to highlight that combinations haven't been confirmed. The inclusion of both drivers in one field and the lack of a breaking a line does indicate this. But to the casual reader, this subtle difference, or the meaning of it, is likely to go
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1} So a driver leaves a team and is replaced, again the length of service by the outgoing driver is not relevant to the 2014 season, adequately discussed on team and driver articles. The reason for giving
Dahlgren's history is to illustrate the existing Polestar/Volvo connection, its more of a
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Race 1 Shane Van_Gisbergen - Team TEKNO VIP Petfoods - Holden
Commodore VF Race 2 Shane Van_Gisbergen - Team TEKNO VIP Petfoods - Holden Commodore VF Race 3 Shane Van_Gisbergen - Team TEKNO VIP Petfoods - Holden Commodore VF Race 4 Scott McLaughlin - Valvoline Racing GRM - Volvo S60
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Bear in mind that V7867 is a new editor. And remember what it was like when you were a new editor. You made mistakes; we all did. Which is why the tone of you final paragraph is completely inappropriate and unacceptable. All you're likely to do is deter him from editing
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straight after
Bathurst, but generally not confirmed. Additionally with so few main game drivers signed up for 2014 and with a few RECs on the move the co-driver market will start later this time around. Although it's very easy to call that speculation
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Again, you contradict yourself. If
Dahlgren is important enough to have background in the article, then Premat is important enough for it, too. Similarly, if Premat is not important enough for background in the article, then neither is Dahlgren.
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I strongly suggest that you stop behaving as if every single edit has to be approved by you before it is included in the article. Accept that other people know what they are doing and are capable of doing it. And leave your ego at the door.
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Likewise no mention is made (assuming they don't drive in 2014) that
Russell Ingall left Walkinshaw Racing after 2 years, or Tony D'Alberto is not present for the first time since 2007, these details lack relevancy in the context of 2014.
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While I appreciate the desire to have a uniform style to the writing of the article, would it be too much to ask that we observe the rules of grammar? Contrary to the assertation of some, the grammar used in parts of this article is
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If you think this is "fine", then I would have serious questions about where you lreaso grammar, because you clearly were not taught very well. Nor should I have to take to an article talk page to give you a lesson in grammar.
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2) Secondly, you have inconsistently applied this faulty logic. You have removed all of the context from Premat's entry, but kept all of the context for everyone else. By your logic, the driver changes section should read like
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Not only does listing the endurance drivers as having their car number as TBA assume readers are idiots, it has never been used before, and we never had a problem with it. There is currently no pressing need for it, either.
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your edits are not in the article, that does not make them any less credible than if they are in the article. You are far too quick to restore the page to your preferred version and you have come very close to breaking the
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Just because something wasn't used in a prior year's article, doesn't mean new ideas shouldn't be suggested. I am sure there are many articles that have improved year-on-year as new editors introduce different thinking.
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Also, debates on personal writing styles don't belong in this talk page. Prisonermonkeys, if you have an issue with someones grammar, advise how you wish to help editors improve their grammar on their talk pages.
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do is to provide some context as to the driver's situation. For instance, in the case of Chad
Mostert, we mention that he was loaned out to DJR during 2013. We do not just say that he replaces Will Davison.
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when banging on about no excuse for poor grammar, yet another typo. If mobile device isn't up to scratch, editor should wait until he/she is behind better hardware, surely posts aren't that time sensitive?
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One thing I was going to bring up last year (but never did) is why were/are the satellite teams separated from their main teams in the endurance table? Shouldn't it be the same as the season table?
533:
Why is is that the prevailing argument for the presentation of content in a certain manner on motorsport season pages is "the casual reader is an idiot"? It's happening here and on
Formula 1 pages.
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It is correct to mention Chas Mostert’s prior relationship with FPR, as he is not new to the team but was a FPR driver for a number of years prior, more of an internal promotion than a new hire.
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At the very least there is no reason to create a co-driver column until any of them have been announced. Empty columns are not a good idea. They encourage editors to add every rumour they think.
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And just because something was not done in a previous season's article, that does not automatically make it a good idea. The break is not as subtle as you are making it out to be.
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Even though Premat will not contest the 2014 season, that is no reason to simply leave him as a name in the article. Some context is important as he does not exist on isolation.
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The only reason you've named to put the column in is based on your prediction that drivers will be named next month. That's not good enough. Not close to good enough. Remove. --
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Are all of the TBAs required, surely a blank cell would suffice? Particularly as (car # TBA) needs to be included for some teams where combinations haven't been announced.
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pa where post the Sandown 500 it is yet to be completed and will be a larger task done restropectively. Co-drivers start to be named as soon as straight after Bathurst.
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Maybe - but it is nowhere near as good as it could be. And prioritising consistency in the ptesentation of prose is no excuse for intentionally allowing poor grammar.
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getting bogged down in the detail on how long prior drivers were with teams or in the series. These are covered on the relevant team and driver articles.
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Sorry to bother you guys, The page is very nice, thank you. Last time I edited a WP page, my pain staking work was deleted so I now ask before.
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I think the issue is that one editor has taken a dislike to another 'treading on their turf'. Rather than try and resolve in a civil manner
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5) And as one final note, would it kill you to learn some grammar? Seriously, the Dahlgren-Premat point in the article is badly written.
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Wasn't stated that because a change is suggested, that it is automatically a good idea, merely that they are worthy of being considered.
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Likewise it is relevant to mention Robert Dahlgren’s prior relationship with Polestar, given that it is more of an inter-Volvo transfer.
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Please stop removing context from the article. No, we do not mention how long eachas ndividual driver raced for each team. But what we
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The "Scheduled Events" calendar does not list the "2014 Formula 1 Rolex Australian Grand Prix" that was held on March 13 to March 16.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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That's because the AGP support race does not count for championship points. This article is for championship events only. See
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https://web.archive.org/web/20140306133912/http://d508o84lonf06.cloudfront.net/live/files/dmfile/2014-Div-D-FINAL.pdf
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get his/her own house in order before delivering condescending lectures to others over their less than perfect posts?
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V7867, ignore Falcadore's last paragraph. He usually knows what he's talking about, but he can be tactless at times.
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is a just nasty piece of work. Whatever faults my grammar may have, they pale into insignificance when compared to
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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It's a completely backward sense of priorities. But you can't convince Prisonermonkeys of this, I've tried. --
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Robert Dahlgren is and what he did before joining the team, but you just give the name of the guy he replaced.
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I think you're being a bit pedantic about the grammar; it really isn't as bad as you seem to be suggesting.
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4) As per 1) how is the length of service of an outgoing driver relevant? Same should apply for all drivers.
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water. There are details of other drivers' involvement with their teams that we do not mention about Premat.
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Nobody ever does claim it is their own turf. It is the act of doing, not the claim which defines ownership.
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Also, I have no idea why you are including the date the photo was taken in the caption. It is irrelevant.
690:. The trend is towards conservatism; the page should remain as it was while changes are being discussed.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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I only hope that one day I can reach the dizzy heights that you set. Me egotistical? Pot, kettle, black?
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1610:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
1480:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
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With the final driver line up now confirmed, have added collapsible wikitable as used in 2013 article
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claims was 'poorly written' and promptly introduces a typo. And on his/her most recent post above
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Co-driver field added to allow cites to be added as they become available, rather than as on the
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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I checked 500 edit on the page, no mention of it... It is listed in on the official results:
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609:'s idea about consolidating satellite teams with their parents is a good example.
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http://www.v8supercars.com.au/championship/2014-v8-supercars-championship/results
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2014 Formula 1 Rolex Australian Grand Prix - Thursday 13 March to Sunday 16 March
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These shouldn't be here. They are speculation, therefore they should be removed.
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for coverage of non-championship events and other V8 Supercar classes.
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No, Dahlgren is a participant in the 2014 series, Premat is not.
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User talk:Prisonermonkeys#There is no easy way to put this ...
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Please tell me that we are not going to have to do this
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transfer within the Volvo family than an external hire.
573:, endurance table should mirror season table order.
110:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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editor. Editing history goes back almost a year. --
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1084:notability. --
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688:edit-warring
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244:project page
229:
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68:WikiProjects
35:
1515:Sourcecheck
887:consistent.
736:Car numbers
506:unnoticed.
398:speculation
1708:Categories
1695:Report bug
1585:Report bug
1433:Netweezurd
679:Bold edits
447:infrequent
373:Co-drivers
174:Motorsport
121:Motorsport
112:Motorsport
87:Motorsport
1678:this tool
1671:this tool
1568:this tool
1561:this tool
1359:Falcadore
1086:Falcadore
1035:Falcadore
978:5) Refer
451:Falcadore
409:Falcadore
249:Australia
236:Australia
169:Australia
1684:Cheers.—
1574:Cheers.—
1381:Captions
1194:In edit
422:further.
28:deletion
1608:my edit
1501:checked
1478:my edit
1106:Grammar
322:at the
276:on the
58:B-class
1509:failed
1218:which
607:Kytabu
64:scale.
36:delete
1341:V7867
1248:V7867
1020:V7867
984:V7867
950:Agree
843:this:
816:V7867
647:V7867
611:V7867
575:V7867
571:Agree
508:V7867
493:V7867
479:V7867
383:V7867
1505:true
1455:Talk
1437:talk
1431:Cya
1402:talk
1363:talk
1345:talk
1315:talk
1252:talk
1157:talk
1139:Talk
1125:talk
1090:talk
1075:talk
1039:talk
1024:talk
1008:talk
988:talk
912:talk
820:talk
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746:talk
696:talk
651:talk
637:talk
615:talk
579:talk
557:Talk
543:talk
512:talk
497:talk
483:talk
469:talk
455:talk
437:talk
413:talk
401:too.
387:talk
348:help
341:The
238:and
34:was
1652:RfC
1622:to
1542:RfC
1519:).
1507:or
1492:to
1113:not
943:2)
268:Low
140:???
1710::
1665:.
1660:}}
1656:{{
1555:.
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1546:{{
1517:}}
1513:{{
1439:)
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1357:--
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70::
38:.
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