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what the article's lead in to the quotes says. Although prominent claims were made in the article, in fact none of the sources cited actually said this was not a terrorist attack (with the exception of one neighbor quoted, which is still in there). In particular the assertion that
Mulcair denied this event was a terrorist attack was simply not correct (he was only talking about the Ottawa event only). Many of the cited articles are actually attacking proposed changes to anti-terrorism laws that per about to be tabled, mentioning this event only as part of the context, and although they are really best put in another article about terrorism legislation, I've grouped them together at the end of this article. Inserted is some additional details about the subject's radicalization. The statement that he came out of the car with his hands up (implying unjustified police shooting) was a very unfair use of just part of a witness statement, omitting that the same witness and other witnesses said he charged the police with a large knife, which witnesses said was still stuck in the grass after the shooting.
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false edit comments, wording added that wasn't in the sources provided (just like here), so any pretense that the attempt here was to "improve" the article by introducing the same unsourced, SYNTH-interpretation wording is, to put it politely, disingenuous. The category should be deleted (I had not fielded a CfD yet due to the ongoing RM at the
Parliament Hill article...which is now closed), as also observed on the Parliament Hill talkpage, as unsubstantiated, POV and created with the "terrorist" wording in the same way that "X was a terrorist" was fabricated here, with obvious POV, given the background of the author in streams of Middle East-related terrorist-themed articles in his user contributions. The edit comment of his restoration of the questionable wording said "improve, I hope". No, it wasn't an improvement; no fabricated, blatantly POV rewording of the sources, or outright POV fabrication, should ever be portrayed as "improvement" to a Knowledge article.
662:"terrorist incidents in Canada" category, which was also created by the author of this article, whose specialty per his contributions appears to be terrorist articles worldwide. Such wording, and its use by the PM and RCMP, is viewed askance by many in the Canadian media and also from the Leader of the Opposition; public sentiment at large is that these were crazy people, not terrorists or organized by IS or Iran or anyone; "just" people with serious personal problems and drug issues; as evinced here by the suspicious origins (yes, suspicious) of this article and category, built on fabrication and propagating a distortion of the media reports as if it were a fact....is not just POV but rank SYNTH and SOAP and is an abuse of Wikipedian neutrality for political ends.
1474:...on Oct. 22, Prime Minister Stephen Harper immediately connected his killer to radical Islam and terrorism. Long before any facts were in, Harper claimed that all Canadians had been attacked by the actions of Michael Zehaf-Bibeau. There was never any talk from the PM about Zehaf-Bibeauâs mental instability or addiction to crack cocaine. His mother and Cpl. Cirilloâs girlfriend were left to develop that side of the debate on the fringes of the alternative media. The governmentâs narrative was immediately picked up and amplified by the CBC. The news coverage on the day of the shooting, and over the subsequent days of fear and grief that followed, looked like a pep rally for the PMâs version of events.
1317:...Wikipedians who have a noticeable POV agenda, at that. And it's not like only McQuaig and O'Toole have made that comparison, ipolitics.ca had various articles about that, and places like canadians.org and rabble.ca have other op-ed copy saying the same thing. I dislike "process" so had not gotten to file a POV noticeboard yet about the ongoing info-suppression on these and other articles and got swept up in having to defend myself against the ANIs launched against me by LP....but I may yet, if what I see going on here and on the other page continues, i.e. "soaping" articles and using specious opinions and claims to justify censorship.
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pointless, given the ongoing censorship/suppression/twisting of sources and claims that t hey don't say what they do will continue; and LP's claims that what the article said did not match what was in the article did not match what the sources said is just revanchist trying-to-point-the-finger back at me for pointing out his own many egregious/erroneous source-abuses on the Ottawa article (and already linked and commented on on that talkpage, despite his demands in his ANIs against me I produce proof...
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1651:"In an opinion piece, Linda McQuaig, said "lots of hype about Canada and our institutions being under attack â even as it got harder to explain the difference between the 'terrorist' murders of two soldiers and the 'non-terrorist' murders of three RCMP officers in Moncton. The main difference appeared to be that the shooter in Moncton was not a follower of Islam"." - A Canadian Toker (
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737:, also on the 27th. Again, the word was not in the sources used, and given the parallel creation of the category by the same user, and the POV issues with it here, and in Canada at large, such actions as creating articles with other-than-sources wording that is of POV nature is observed; and the call to delete the category underscored. Much of the SJsR article was worked on by
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again in media and blog commentary on the "terrorism hype" that is being used by the government to advance
Patriot Act-style police powers and surveillance laws despite widespread opposition....and serious reservations about calling either event "terrorism" and any silly claims that these were the first times that Canada has seen terrorism (far from it).
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been inspired by IS' recent call for the faithful to kill
Canadians, that's a wholly different thing than saying that he "was a terrorist". His lawyer might differ, but he's dead and doesn't have one, same with Zehaf-Bibeau. But the Canadian public-at-large differs, as do many notable journalists and others....and the Leader of the Opposition also.
858:; the government/police propagation of the term, which began on Conservative Party Twitter accounts, is also widely criticized and viewed askance in mainstream op-eds as well as throughout blogspace. Also typical of the parroting effect of the international press is the claim that the photo of Zehaf-Bibeau that was attributed to ISIS
787:, saying in his initial edit "new page, provoked by rise in this tactic bringing tactic, motivation under scrutiny". Continued POV/SYNTH of this kind should not be tolerated; I will file an AfD on that article also, because of its obvious POV motivation and genesis. Propaganda is not welcome in Knowledge.
761:, also. Not pointing fingers, just observing that POV-inclined editors have propagated the use of the term "terrorism" and their edit histories/agendas are worth referring to. I'll remove these incidents from the list of terrorist attacks articles, for what by now are obvious reasons in wikipedia terms.
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Now that the recent attempt to silence me with a block or topic ban is over, I'll be watching this and further developments, and reviewing other sources, and may take a few days to launch it, but an ANI on the POV discussion board is long overdue. I just dislike process, and would rather not have to
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He was looking for compensation for health care expenses incurred while still in the military. He was convinced that an H1N1 flu shot he had been given in the Forces had led to his contracting multiple sclerosis. Unsatisfied with the response he received from the
Veterans Centre, GG gathered weapons,
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GG is a former
Canadian military intelligence officer â hence the secret name â who was planning to blow up a downtown skyscraper. It turns out that the skyscraper in question, the Bantrel Tower at 700 Sixth Avenue in Calgary, also housed a Veterans Affairs Office. GG had sought help from that office
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is the work of the Devil, and raving about the end of the world...when not f**ked up on crack. Hardly an IS warrior, and someone IS would likely have beheaded if he'd spouted off at them like he had to the elders at the Mosque in
Burnaby. in Couture-Rouleau's case, given he is said to have actually
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events in Canada which the media avoid calling "terrorism" but which partisan pundits regularly do. These were not IS attacks, they were not terrorism by any normal measure...and
Knowledge should not allow itself to be used for dissemination of propagandized reporting, as was done here from teh very
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of hostile editors being used as the justification. Dissociation and disconnection and suppression are stock fare in the propagandists' toolkit, same as in public relations firms' retooling of language/reality to mean something different than what it does. Such are the times. What's going on here
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I know I can find more sources making "the
Bourque connection", beyond O'Toole's article and Linda McQuaig's statement, but there's only so much time in a given day. The attempts to suppress that connection in this article, and in the Ottawa article, have been ongoing, with "removers" over and over
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Yet
Stephen Harper weighed in on only two of the cases â those of Zehaf-Bibeau and Couture-Rouleau, whom he deemed to be terrorists. He had nothing to say about Bourque or the man known as GG, though their crimes and planned crimes (GG has entered a guilty plea on three charges) were similar strikes
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Admittedly, the prime minister had been dealt a hand he could play to the hilt with plausibility and great effect. After all, even though he came to his conclusion that Zehaf-Bibeau was a terrorist before the facts had been gathered, the shooter had killed a man in uniform and then attacked the seat
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please take note of this. If not for my now-aversion to these articles I'd have added McQuaig's comment here, but not doubt the two back-scratching each other's POV above would find some quasi-rationale to delete/suppress it too. I really should de-watchlist these articles, it's time-consuming and
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OK, I missed the addition of that here; I had only added O'Toole's item when putting it here, and because of being "busy elsewhere" had noticed the addition of the McQuaig quote. O'Toole's wording clearly references both this event and Ottawa, your removal of it, and the other Guardian article, is
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from the Ottawa article; compare what the addition I reverted said vs. what the G&M article actually had in it. Not the first time that kind of thing has gone with both articles = including this one from its very first edit. Reply below re McQuaig, I hadn't realized it was here yet, I'd added
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Then there's the ongoing attempt to suppress the obvious terrorism-connection/comparison to the Moncton shootings, which has been ongoing here for a while, which mirrors the govt's/RCMP's own aversion to that comparison. Say what you like about Emer O'Toole's article, or the comparison, being "not
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I've just posted a revision. I checked all cited sources and found a number of statements in the article were not reflective of the sources. Similarly, some of the quotes presented from opinion pieces did not accurately reflect the thrust of the article quoted and at least one directly contradicted
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No doubt some put-down of this post will follow, and some attempt to dismiss Harris' ipolitics.ca article just as has been done with O'Toole and Greenwald and the Guardian editorial, and would no doubt be done if I or anyone came up yet more sources making exactly the same points and raising very
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Understood â but then thereâs this mystery to explain. If Michael Zehaf-Bibeau had committed a terrorist act in Ottawa by attacking important symbols of Canadian authority and governance, then what about the man known to the public only as âGGâ who is currently going through the court process in
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Linda McQuaig, an award-winning journalist and former NDP candidate, said "lots of hype about Canada and our institutions being under attack â even as it got harder to explain the difference between the âterroristâ murders of two soldiers and the ânon-terroristâ murders of three RCMP officers in
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ISIS and not just crazy men with drug problems as is a very common consensus in Canada which even a casual scan of the Huffington Post, ipolitics.ca and any number of blogs will readily show, as will the political agenda underlying the propagation of descrptions of these events as "terrorism" or
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What I see in the original cites and wording, however, is a clear introduction of the "terrorist theme" to this article, rather than an innocent parroting of foreign coverage which is generally a crib or op-ed extenuation on actual Canadian coverage...on the other article there have been blatant
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There is also serious concern in Canada that "terrorism" has been used to describe/denounce environmental and native and other protests, and a general consensus that "we are a wounded nation, not a terrorized one" per one journalists/blog on HuffPo. Foreign attempts to inflate these events as a
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which terrorized Moncton and saw three Mounties die and were more systematically ideological (just white and conservative, though preaching open rebellion), yet the media (and the government and RCMP) have sidestepped the term "terrorist incident" for that; that question/point comes up again and
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When Justin Bourque shot down five Mounties in Moncton earlier this year, killing three of them, he specifically said he was out to kill government officials and wanted to start a revolution. Although he also mused about blowing up gas stations, he faced no terrorist charges arising out of his
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speaking of the Moncton shootings/Justin Bourque as "terrorism", and also the case re an individual known only as GG whose case is under wraps in Calgary right now. Lest I be accused, as above, of not saying what the article says when trying to condense it, I will blockquote a highly relevant
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oh, well, if you're going to start using blogs and op-eds to bolster your case it makes the lack of neutrality in your obvious agenda had all the more clear as POV and opinion-only. I don't suppose you've even though to look at the many Canadian blogs and op-eds that are very critical of the
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The presumption, not in the sources used to have asserted it in the original version of this article, that this was a "terrorist attack", is a controversial matter under dispute in Canada and also re attempts to rename the Parliament Hill shootings article, where I laid out the origins of the
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Green Party leader Elizabeth May said in the House of Commons: "I would put money on these being the acts of isolated, disturbed and deeply troubled men who were drawn to something crazy. I do not believe that it was a vast network, or that the country is more at risk today than it was last
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Michael Zehaf-Bibeau and Martin Couture-Rouleau, who murdered Warrant Officer Patrice Vincent, should be killing-cousins of Justin Bourque and the man known as GG. All of the them struck out against representatives of the government of Canada, or planned to in their own very violent ways.
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saying again "irrelevant" but the sources are very clearly saying otherwise. If those removing the content were not so clearly of the "terror agenda" bent and not so clearly pro-government/authorities as they have been, their only-opinions as to relevance or irrelevance
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Glenn Greenwald, the man in charge of the Edward Snowden Archive, was recently in Ottawa and was asked by journalist Jesse Brown how the word âterroristâ could be defined. Greenwald replied that it didnât seem to be just about what a person did, but what they believed.
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The attempt to re-title this article to match the "terrorism hype" campaign that is hotly under dispute in Canada despite int'l media's unwitting repetition/propagation of that theme has been reverted. Given the attempted mover's use of completely fabricated wording
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A crazy man "inspired" by a terrorist group IS (Couture-Rouleau) is not automatically a terrorist, and the media (e.g. the National Post) expressly did not say that; in the case of Zehaf-Bibeau, his converted Islam was far out of left field, spouting how the
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I will be filing a CfD on the POV category title also created/fabricated by Shulmaven.....and am contemplating the POV noticeboard, though it has a backlog. These are not trivial concerns; dishonest edit comments, POV text fabricated without sources and
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would not stand up to the reality that they are only Wikipedians, and their opinions about what sources say or about (demonstrably wrong) are quite irrelevant. The connection to Justin Bourque and, as indicated above, the GG/Bantrel Tower matter,
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policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or
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trying to link them directly to ISIS. In Zehaf-Bibeau's case, the girlfriend of the soldier killed has called for action on the mental health crisis and the article about that (in www.straight.com) didn't not mention "terrorism" even
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terrorist strike at the heart of Canada etc are out of proportion to their context and with disregard to the controversial nature of the terminology in Canada, and the agenda that it is being used to serve, and in the context of
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But calling white black seems to be par for the course around here....and I weary of the game and know the rules don't matter, rather force of POV claims and opinions is what's going on here; and the upshot is POV censorship.
1379:"In an opinion piece, Linda McQuaig, said "lots of hype about Canada and our institutions being under attack â even as it got harder to explain the difference between the 'terrorist' murders of two soldiers and the '
1141:- those articles are actually about the new Canadian anti-terror legislation and effects on privacy and freedoms. Most of the quoted opinion pieces are on that topic, mentioning this topic in passing for background.
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of Shulmaven's edits since my expansion to check their validity and the veracity/believability of the edit comments. British and European commentaries up next, to offset the US-military-mouthpiece RAND Corporation
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I think your getting a little bit mixed up go double check the diffs. I don't remember seeing any globe and mail articles.. Also there is explicit mention of the moncton shootings.. Its under the media reaction
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I reverted it not just because it was grossly misspelled but because of the "presumably"...it is not a Wikipedian's "job" to "presume" anything, or to re-interpret reportage according to a visible agenda.
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things, or make any kind of OR/SYNTH, such as with done re a G&M cite where "ISIL" and the Governor-General weren't mentioned though they were in LP's use of that cite (since deleted from the Ottawa
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I disagree strongly with both your interpretations/claims but am weary of arguing the obvious and winding up in pointless word-games and already got sucked into an edit-war by such activities. Mulcair
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is a demonstration that not only the Russian and Ukrainian and Chinese content and the like on Knowledge is being systematically attacked/undermined and distorted by POV activists, paid or otherwise.
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passage from that article here; this belongs in some form on this page, and on the Ottawa page, and on the Moncton shootings page; there isn't, so far as I know, any article on GG's plan to bomb the
862:, only repeated by it, yet throughout world media it was reported it was an ISIS photo. The reliability of parroted misinformation is a problem; but you are intent on perpetuating and inflaming it.
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was marked as "minor" by Shulmaven; since when is deleting a citation "minor". Not the first false/misleading edit comment by Shulmaven, seems I'll be finding more in reviewing his recent edits.
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I agree that the section is needed. I have deleted the guardian articles though. I don't think they really addressed this incident, nor the proposed anti-terror legislation. - A Canadian Toker (
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170:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1487:. Farther on in the article makes very explicit the issue about the political/official disconnect (mirrored here by the editors who have been purging this page of that, as above) on
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and his contributions on scores of other articles on terrorism also face review and rollback. Here are my initial comments on a section about this page's POV activity/authorship
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Oddly, though this was a major attack on a government installation in which the casualties would have been significant, GG faces no charges under Ottawaâs terrorist legislation.
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I have deleted both of the british newspaper articles that were on this page. Neither of them pertained to this incident. Nothing to do with this article. - A Canadian Toker (
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relevant, no matter what the info-suppression claims are. Unless you can find sources/op-eds that say "Justin Bourque was not a terrorist and those saying that are wrong
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raise the question of the comparison between the non-branding of the Moncton shootings as "terrorism" by government and police and the events in SJsR and Ottawa, which
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938:"Lone Wolves, Terrorist Runts, and the Stray Dogs of ISIS Why ISIS and al Qaeda rely on loners and losers to carry out their terrorist agenda in the West"
847:"Lone Wolves, Terrorist Runts, and the Stray Dogs of ISIS Why ISIS and al Qaeda rely on loners and losers to carry out their terrorist agenda in the West"
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That is general comment by Glenn Greenwald not a specific reaction to this incident alone and other comment removed also is a general one .
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article. The article was greatly expanded, also, by another user whose history includes edits on the Michael Brown matter and on such as
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I have discovered that the word "terrorist", including in since-removed wording from the lede, was in the original version of the article
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addressed the anti-terror legislation/agenda of the government. Another similar statement is on the Ottawa article from Elizabeth May:
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McQuaig's comment and the Guardian article are sourced materials; the opinions of Toker and LP as to whether they're irrelevant are
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and an attempt yesterday to "improve" the article by reintroducing those fabrications, I'm of the opinion that Shulmaven should be
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I removed the unrelated NYC and Jerusalem items from the See also, and in noting hte new addition there looked into it, it was
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Seems to be yet more SYNTH coming from the same editor who fabricated what sources had said to suit his own POV/agenda.
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note I have not used any expletives, but this is a good example of the ongoing POV problems that led to the edit war.
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are about both events (O'Toole's says "two soldiers" meaning the one who died in SJsR as well as Nathan Cirillo and
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Moncton. The main difference appeared to be that the shooter in Moncton was not a follower of Islam".</ref: -->
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Timothy McVeigh was a mass killer, Omar Khadr was a terrorist. A terrorist was a Muslim who acted out violently
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the O'Toole quote as someone had taken out the See also for the shootings a few times, saying "irrelevant".
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but I just read through both sources given, the word "presumably" is in neither, and indicates presumption
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When they arrested him, authorities also found a detailed map of the Bantrel Tower he intended to bomb.
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and will resist; the issue of "what is terrorism?" hangs over these events, and also in the case of the
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1642:@Skookum1: there is explicit mention of the moncton shootings.. Its under the media reaction sections
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of government in Canada. Surely it was not unreasonable to characterize such a man as a terrorist?
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is not "fringe" and this particular column has been widely repeated on Canadian sites and beyond.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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re the suspect origins of this article and the attempt to re-POVize content, and POVize the title
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The main difference appeared to be that the shooter in Moncton was not a follower of Islam"."
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in Calgary (unless it's on that building's article, if there is one, I haven't looked yet):
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events in his original speech/statement and in the first article I saw about it. And re
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Links were there because the incidents werediscussed as similar or related, in the press.
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This clearly shows you are not keeping your word - because you agreed not to edit here.
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firearms and explosives and apparently planned to blow up the building that housed it.
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whose only edits, virtually, have been on that page, or this one, plus adding this to
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For the record, Zehaf-Bibeau and Couture were Muslims, while Bourque and GG were not.
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reversion of POV/SYNTH by original author, who had added words NOT in the sources.
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is labelled "detail, source" but the change from "wanted" to "had attempted" is
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government/police rhetoric/agenda here. If we're going to start including
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Also timothy mcveigh was most certainly a terrorist. - A Canadian Toker (
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first edit, without any citation at all saying what Shulmaven wrote.
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same questions. Answers will be given by the deletion of same, with
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As noted in the previous section, it's not hard to find sources that
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the burden of proof-of-irrelevance is on your shoulders, not mine.
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and op-eds, this article has a long way to go before it achieves
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Italics for emphasis/highlighting were added by me (other than
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the Bourque comparison/connection to the PM's "terror agenda"
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That was Michael Harris' content/comparison; I see that the
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non-terrorist' murders of three RCMP officers in Moncton.
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on the Ottawa article and very clear about that is this:
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attempt to reinstate that fabrication I have reverted
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yet another false edit comment to mask POV deletion
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false edit comment "according to sources"....uh, no
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913:Sinha, Shreeya (23 October 2014).
890:Brumfield, Ben (24 October 2014).
14:
1791:Low-importance Terrorism articles
1599:was as much a common practice as
1429:The G&M item referred to was
936:Siegel, Jacob (24 October 2014).
820:2014 New York City hatchet attack
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743:List of terrorist incidents, 2014
1553:as normal for bits from Latin).
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512:Knowledge:WikiProject Terrorism
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289:This article has been rated as
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1776:Mid-importance Quebec articles
1736:C-Class Crime-related articles
1708:) 05:00, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
1667:) 05:00, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
1626:) 03:31, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
1442:) 05:03, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
1408:) 04:30, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
1333:) 06:45, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
515:Template:WikiProject Terrorism
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1756:Low-importance Death articles
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1172:12:23, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
1151:12:27, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
1132:21:53, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
1116:02:10, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
1100:05:54, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
1076:05:49, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
1054:05:42, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
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1007:02:00, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
506:and see a list of open tasks.
426:This article is supported by
378:and see a list of open tasks.
263:and see a list of open tasks.
174:and see a list of open tasks.
79:biographies of living persons
1781:All WikiProject Canada pages
1315:only opinions of Wikipedians
872:13:35, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
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797:05:00, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
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384:Knowledge:WikiProject Canada
177:Crime and Criminal Biography
144:Crime and Criminal Biography
1659:still info-suppression IMO.
1064:This deletion of a citation
755:set of other articles/diffs
387:Template:WikiProject Canada
269:Knowledge:WikiProject Death
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1233:Note the "deeply troubled
1202:Guardian articles Toker's
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538:project's importance scale
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295:project's importance scale
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1404:- A Canadian Toker (
735:created by ShulMaven
718:not in sources given
647:may be able to help!
597:and other web sites.
59:relevant style guide
55:varieties of English
640:improve its quality
638:in this article to
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576:improve its quality
574:in this article to
57:. According to the
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967:6 November
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898:7 November
894:. CNN. CNN
878:References
621:Map needed
568:photograph
504:discussion
76:While the
1620:Legacypac
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1310:article).
1307:fabricate
1164:Legacypac
1143:Legacypac
1086:this edit
803:ShulMaven
757:. Worth
739:a new SPA
509:Terrorism
500:terrorism
472:Terrorism
43:travelled
1702:Skookum1
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1579:opinions
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636:included
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327:Military
1321:Wifione
1204:opinion
1137:Agreed
983:another
963:. Slate
839:balance
722:blocked
536:on the
408:on the
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204:on the
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51:analyze
47:realize
1700:on it.
1224:week."
693:Hadith
604:Upload
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381:Canada
372:Canada
323:Quebec
318:Canada
121:scale.
39:centre
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1559:still
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767:more.
680:other
266:Death
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981:yet
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868:talk
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