1045:. That is from 24 November (the Friday) and states that a military funeral was held on Thursday for 12 of the dead (three then taken by train to their hometowns, and nine by airplane to more distant locations). Presumably those twelve funerals included soldiers from the 6 bodies that were recovered on Thursday (the crash took place on the Tuesday), with two bodies still missing (a locomotive engineer and a soldier). The two soldiers reported still missing at the end of the article are presumably the other two of the four bodies never found, though that does presume that the number of four bodies never recovered is correct. I'm sure there are other articles around as well that reported on the funerals and recovery efforts. I'll post here if I come across anything more.
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1004:. I know the line has to be drawn somewhere, but having found that, I wanted to point it out on the talk page at least. I also looked through the records for each of the soldiers here, as the article says that four bodies were not found or not recovered, and all but three were buried or commemorated individually in a cemetery. It is not possible to be certain about this, but again thought it worth pointing out that the Virtual Memorial entries do list burial details where known (though it does also have a fair number of errors).
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reader's perspective. Also, we do have some obligation to make articles as uniform as possible. To my mind, that makes a presumption that we should have an infobox, to quickly set forth what happened, where, and how. But the other images, as you can probably tell, were added later, after my visit to Canoe River and
Cedarside, and have not been reviewed by the community, except the very few people who read this article, and who may not even realize they can comment.--
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1856:). I've no particular objection to the newspaper image being used or images nudged to more relevant locations. I am concerned that we could get into a too many images to content ratio situation, resulting in overall layout problems. And I'm pretty much with you on the L-R alternation issue. Of course you're
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I did look at it. I have no objection to rearranging the images, but I think probably we should keep the infobox as is. I'm not the biggest fan of infoboxes, but if we want to do something else, we probably should discuss in detail. I would welcome your thoughts on the article. I welcome feedback
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I'm tentatively wondering if linking to a list of those killed, including the names of those killed in the train locomotives, would be desirable (I know a list in the article isn't really suitable). Also, maybe it should be made clearer in the article that more detailed information on each soldier is
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Another idea: You could put one of the memorial pics in the lead spot. (It is interesting that the TFA used one of them...it needed an iconic graphic.) The rest of the layout as discussed in version B, except put the headline down in the rescue section. (since it concerns casualties.) Still not
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that notes that Dief was taking the case for free and maybe the examiners shouldn't be charging him so much money (that would be maybe $ 20,000 today). I can't put it in the article because it is speculation, but they caved. Dief was not yet a national figure, but he was well-known in the West and
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If you want to re-arrange the pictures and keep the infobox that is an option (I even mentioned it in my first post...of course you'd have to read past the slight bodycheck on golden text. ;-)) I've put a substantial "version B" forward. If you see anything worthwhile, will leave it up to you to
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My preference is to keep the infobox where it is. The headline is nice, but it doesn't need to lead off the article because it isn't "telling" anything that we don't already know. The images in the infobox were calculated to orient. People don't know where Canoe River is for a very good reason.
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Nice! Thanks. It seems to bear out both the distances in the article and also my personal experience from my visit there this summer. The Canoe River station is long gone. Cedarside is still there but it is not a public area, I sort of snuck in after hours. The
Valemount station has been moved
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In the memorials and tributes section, the RCHA acronym is not immediately obvious as it is not used previously in the main text. It is a pity there are no more details about the CNR memorial (e.g. erection or dedication date). Personally, I would add the dates of when the Korea Book of
Remembrance
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I need to look closer at how your images do better for the various sections. Perhaps my like of the infobox is creator's pride, doing the maps that way was my idea, and I was thinking that despite how obscure Canoe River is, people will know at a glance right where it happened. But that's not a
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And since the average person has NEVER heard of this crash, a headline makes them "care" more quickly and viscerally. And the "big crash, # dead" is the more quick thing to want to grapple with (to put this mystery term in context), not "in the mountains". Also, that the details of geometry and
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And for Brer, the intention was pretty clearly to do a "trial" for appearance. Not to drive some revert war crap. You can't assess this stuff without actually making the change and taking a look at it. Ideally giving it a day or so of getting used to it. Anyhoo, the author has at least had a
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It is worth making clearer why there were only injuries on the
Continental train - was it not because that had steel passenger coaches, rather than the wooden ones used on the troop train? You do say "eleven all-steel cars" earlier, but repeating this at the point where talk about the damage and
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I'm not crazy about infoboxes since they get long and since they reduce the image size (to fit inside). But in this case, layout "B" had the pics all on the right anyway, so it is basically same thing, but within an infobox. Also, if you consider how the species infoboxes "work", you see that
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Note, the picture has been looked at by THE BEST minds at the
Commons copyright question desk (I know those peeps). And has even had the tilt taken out because of some worry about that. It is legit. Maybe looks like we are getting away with something...but are not. So no skirts
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Does it actually say
Gosnall with a a? I would be surprised if I were screwing up that badly, though I've made some howlers in my time. I drove past a "Gosnell Road" on my way up Highway 5 to Valemount, but as nothing actually happened there, I did not bother to
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Very important that pictures are relevant to the sections. they are not just "eye candy" to place in the golden text...but really are very powerful methods of communication. That is why AP pays money for stringers to take pics of Green Helmet man and the like.
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such fit better within the crash section. And in general, a more fast understood and emotionally compelling picture is more important for a lead, than one that requires a lot of looking at and thinking about (like a two-panel map with geometry of rail lines).
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There is a photo of the
Continental locomotive 6004 out there on a webpage somewhere, but I can't find it now. Will add a link here later if manage to locate it again. It seems to have vanished or I'm searching with the wrong keywords. (Update: the photo is
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Also, if some of the soldiers are to be mentioned individually here (e.g. the gunner that had a lake named after him in
Manitoba), then it is worth pointing out here that at least one of them is also mentioned on another 'state' memorial, such as this one
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Anyhow, let me just see what the article looks like with the newspaper up top. The crash map with the crash section. The siding thing with the inquiry. (MUCH better fits for those last two). And the train, I guess under rescue (no good home for it).
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implement. (I'm not trying to drive a version...could care less...but to show you something.) If the map formatting or the like gives you a hard time, get MissMJ to help or just look at my revision code and figure it out. Chaka, bra. :-)
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and if you can get past the formatting, there are some interesting bits there. Mostly not relevant, but I thought the mention that Mount
Diefenbaker is not far from the crash site was interesting. It also has a copy of the poem I mentioned
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W: Well...what is it doing for you? Can you explain why you like it? I mean the text fields in there are pretty uninteresting. It's not like a country where you would have some almanac info like population and area and the like.
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Several source mention a poem (inscribed on some of the memorials). It would be nice to know more about this poem and have it mentioned in the article, including when it was composed and first published (which I've been unable to
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Number of injuries is in the infobox but not the main body of the article or the lead. Should probably be added somewhere, as this will also need sourcing (the sources I have looked at give different numbers for the
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The part on the bar exam doesn't make much sense. It says the BC bar was notoriously difficult, but then it says it consisted of one simple question. Why was it just one? Did they change it for him or something?
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Thanks for your help. I will work though these gradually as time permits and as more info becomes available (I hope to visit the area of the crash next month, and may find useful things at the
Valemount
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I put a substantial revision in. If you all like any of it...ball. your side of the court. (your turn.) If you don't want to bother, than maybe the changes are not that compelling. Peace.
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If you want to put the headline in the infobox, fine, but I'd like to keep at least one map image, with the others further south. Thanks for your attention, surprised you've "heard of it".--
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1879:(and in any case, the template can be tweaked or an alternative used. Don't let the format affect the layout...drive for the reader...and you don't even know that this is a real problem.)
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996:. Maybe a note saying that the figure of 516 includes these 17 might be warranted, rather than mentioning memorials that don't list them separately (as the Brookside Cemetery one does)?
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958:(for others reading this, search for "canoe river"). That's an amazing part of the story, and a very readable account. I hope some of the readers of this article end up reading that.
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Is there any specific reason for forcing the image sizes in this article? I can only speak for my self obviously, but the images look disproportionately large on my screen. Doesn't
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You know your stuff. We can, I think, put any two images we like in the infobox, but I'm concerned that if we have the maps right below that, it might be image overload.--
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OK. I just wanted you to look at it. Still think the bulk of the infobox is not very interesting (doesn't have almanacy things like the height of the Statue of Liberty).
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was set up, when the Wall of Remembrance was dedicated, and when the Korea Cairn at Winnipeg Brookside Cemetery was dedicated. Dates for all three should be possible.
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people have an iconic (fast processed) picture of the animal on top and then the map lower down (as it is more detailed reading really, to parse a map).
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There are some other Canadian Korean War memorials where all 516 soldiers that died (that being the official figure) are commemorated, such as the one
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It is the hell and gone in BC, it took me nine hours from Vancouver with some stops. I'd like to hear what people watching the article think.--
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You could maybe do something like having the headline up top and the map lower down (within the infobox). Sort of like this:
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Yes. Although we don't have reliable sources that get into the bar examiners' head, I do have one article from the Ottawa
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Hm, interesting, thanks. Maybe yu could put it in with the speculation, like "The Ottawa Citizen speculated that..." --
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I have obtained a copy of a Canadian National Railways passenger timetable and the distances for places mentioned are:
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things. The IP lost me at "golden text". I suggest specific changes be proposed here before such disruptive edits
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Think about what kind of picture would be featured on the front page of the newspaper? A map?? or dead bodies??
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and it's now the local museum. I drove by some of the other places, but there was nothing of interest to see.--
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Did you know ... that when railway telegrapher Alfred Atherton was accused of manslaughter for his role in the
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974:). If you click on the additional information links there, you will probably pick up any additional memorials.
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The Infobox gone (we could keep it, also, but really not helpful, this is not an "almanac" type of topic).
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didn't do any speculating, I guess that's me! I don't want to imply possibly false causes and effect.--
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Glad you liked it. I'm still inserting random facts from a research trip to British Columbia into it.--
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Sounds good. Hope the trip goes well. As far as the number of missing goes, have a look at the report
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I'm in favour of retaining the infobox. They're useful as a précis. We can see your version
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And the other moves as discussed. But I'm fine. Just wanted you to look at it.
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and react to it. I don't always see the article from a reader's perspective.--
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Oops, my error. Should be ‘Gosnell’. I have corrected it in the table above. —
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I have no strong view on the subject. Should I change them to "thumb", then?--
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Maybe we could find a way by rearranging the maps? Feel free to experiment.--
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Yes, please. Thanks for the article, btw; that was an interesting read. :) --
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986:- probably not freely licensed, but I thought it was worth pointing it out).
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Those are all the notes I have left over from reading through the article.
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Sources seem to differ on the precise spelling of the doctor's name.
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Feel free to revert after. Just want to see what it looks like.
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Couple more thoughts, branching off from the FAC comments:
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41:Knowledge (XXG) community
61:Today's featured article
2127:Canoe River train crash
2118:External links modified
2017:Canoe River train crash
2008:External links modified
834:rail transport articles
558:Canada-related articles
386:Associated task forces:
190:Canoe River train crash
27:Canoe River train crash
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276:This article is rated
1636:Critically Endangered
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280:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
63:on November 21, 2011.
2197:regular verification
2057:regular verification
1381:I'm reluctant. The
968:William David Wright
939:I got from there to
915:Couple more thoughts
109:Good article nominee
2187:After February 2018
2047:After February 2018
1793:Arabian wolf range
1621:Conservation status
1255:. p. 51. Table 135.
678:Disaster management
669:Disaster management
641:Disaster management
2241:InternetArchiveBot
2192:InternetArchiveBot
2101:InternetArchiveBot
2052:InternetArchiveBot
1858:free to experiment
1259:Hope this helps —
887:
799:WikiProject Trains
611:
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535:WikiProject Canada
456:
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350:list of open tasks
282:content assessment
84:Article milestones
2217:
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1983:Canis lupus arabs
1837:
1797:
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1769:Canis lupus arabs
1644:
1480:so you can see it
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179:June 20, 2011
175:
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172:Did you know?
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1992:. Retrieved
1982:
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1862:Br'er Rabbit
1798:
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1745:Subspecies:
1735:
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1597:Arabian Wolf
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814:. See also:
808:project page
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102:July 1, 2011
45:please do so
34:
26:
1751:C. l. arabs
1249:Reference:
1216:Canoe River
1027:library).--
972:David Owens
928:ascertain).
128:Peer review
2261:Categories
2248:Report bug
2108:Report bug
1994:27 October
1968:References
1232:Blue River
1169:Miles from
1069:WP:IMGSIZE
1047:Carcharoth
1010:Carcharoth
812:discussion
735:Operations
226:column on
176:column on
36:identified
2231:this tool
2224:this tool
2091:this tool
2084:this tool
1731:Species:
1698:Carnivora
1657:Kingdom:
1306:Iain Bell
1261:Iain Bell
1240:Vancouver
1208:Cedarside
1200:Valemount
1171:Montreal
1156:Distances
1116:Eisfbnore
1076:Eisfbnore
984:this page
924:injured).
495:Geography
216:Main Page
166:Main Page
2237:Cheers.—
2097:Cheers.—
1737:C. lupus
1705:Family:
1686:Mammalia
1674:Chordata
1669:Phylum:
1662:Animalia
1641:IUCN 3.1
1604:ذئب عربي
1475:restored
818:and the
316:Canadian
278:FA-class
152:Promoted
133:Reviewed
2131:my edit
2021:my edit
1952:Wehwalt
1934:Wehwalt
1903:Wehwalt
1817:Wehwalt
1717:Genus:
1710:Canidae
1693:Order:
1681:Class:
1561:Wehwalt
1543:Wehwalt
1458:Wehwalt
1387:Wehwalt
1383:Citizen
1355:Wehwalt
1346:Citizen
1292:Wehwalt
1290:stop.--
1277:Wehwalt
1243:2924.2
1235:2527.5
1227:2498.4
1224:Gosnell
1219:2478.4
1211:2473.5
1203:2469.6
1195:2460.6
1187:2438.9
1179:2395.1
1166:Station
1138:Wehwalt
1099:Wehwalt
1029:Wehwalt
982:, from
852:on the
705:on the
576:on the
218:in the
168:in the
92:Process
1850:, and
1778:, 1934
1776:Pocock
1600:Arabic
1176:Jasper
936:above.
825:Trains
730:Trains
549:Canada
540:Canada
486:Canada
320:Korean
284:scale.
242:, and
114:Listed
95:Result
1844:(and
1723:Canis
1472:I've
312:Asian
29:is a
1996:2007
1956:talk
1938:talk
1923:talk
1907:talk
1891:talk
1866:talk
1853:here
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1841:here
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1359:talk
1351:very
1335:talk
1310:talk
1296:talk
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1033:talk
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