394:---because I believe it is wrong. I believe "chemical compound" is, BY DEFINITION, a substance which can not be further separated into constituents by physical means without breaking (or making) of covalent bonds. This definition obviously will have difficulties with isotopes, high polymers and ionic compounds. It is pragmatic and only serves a useful purpose in a limited number of contexts. Let us say it is an emergent property, rather than a fundamental property of a material.-------- on further consideration, this whole article is horrible. The definition is WRONG. Its is a feeble attempt to give a precise definition to a fuzzy concept. The problem is, doing so changes the nature of the concept. Some fuzzy concepts should remain so, their utility is severly degraded when cetain types try to steal a term and assign a more formal meaning (definition) to it.--
775:
nature and the world. We describe for the student what he or she will see. Q. what is the the nature of these chemical substances one finds in observing the world? Well, mostly what one finds, are not what is described in these articles! Air and water and (some of) biology, yes. The rest of the universe (a rather larger place), no! There is no point in inserting any artificial limitation here. The Wiki describes water and table salt, yawn. For dirt and rock and all the things my house, clothes, and computer is composed of, it does not. Indeed, it's hard to say that even my own body solids are more stoichiometric than not. Is my hair or any other of the chemical molecules or substances that compose my body, actually described by these articles on chemical compounds or sustances? No! They fail.
1102:. Had the article been reduced to a stub, so one did not need to battle the politics of large revisions, I would have joined in again to move a short stub toward being an authoritative article. But I am not wasting time over reams of very old, unsourced, inaccurate material. You have, in your expertise, indicated the article is of value. Please, fix it, beginning with the discrepancies that have been tagged at the article top, since 2015, at least so the article reflects the basic insights of the Oxford and IUPAC sources presented above. For an outsider's perspective on the longevity of inaccurate chemistry content at Knowledge, see
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because it says nothing about anything being chemically bound etc., unless we assume that by "substance" we mean a pure chemical substance? Even then, it's a very indirect way of implying that a chemical compound is made up of molecular entities / bound atoms. The definition in the beginning of the lead seems more complete or at least clearer, and covers both senses of compound: one molecular entity itself, or a pure substance made up of such molecular entitities of a single species.
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1161:. Since you are obviously knowledgeable in this subject area and have an interest in it, I encourage you to jump in and try to fix what you can. You may find that if you start cleaning it up, others will be inspired to join you. Large revisions don't have to become political. Sometimes it helps to take the article in small chunks, perhaps one section at a time so others can see and understand what you are doing. Give it a try. We won't
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weeds' but generally a chemical compound is "isolate-able". It exists for a (context relevant) length of time without immediate decomposition (in a understood or explicit environment). that is: it is stable, and is electrically neutral. I'd like to see, at least, electrical neutrality mentioned here. I'm not sure if any elementary source will include this, it's a bit more than what a layperson needs to know...
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The
Knowledge article 'Helium Hydride Ion' claims it is a (chemical) compound. HeH(+) is NOT a compound, imho. I looked thru this article and could find *nothing* that prevents claims that any fragment can be a "chemical compound" whether charged, unstable or what have you. I know it is a bit 'in the
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To whom it may concern, I want to request for an edit for the article on chemical compound. This article needs to be added the Hill system formula, because it is well related to the area/field of chemical compounds. The topic is about writing the chemical formulas in alphabetical order when the atoms
919:
The reason that one gets a peach is stoichiometry, for goodness sake; if within the cell, if homeostatic processes did not maintain a given proportionate relation between particular regulatory proteins and the genes that they regulate, do you think that we would see any life, let alone the delightful
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But what other reference can we make but nature? This is not an article about chemical compounds and substanes one is likely to find in the lab-- it is about chemical compounds and substances, period. The definition it gives, should cover and include chemical subtances and compounds one encounters in
724:
it says much the same thing. The problem is that this is true only part of the time (i.e. for only some types of compounds). Yes, some chemical substances and chemical compounds have fixed ratios of atoms held together by chemical bonds, but others do not, and yet are clearly NOT just mixtures. Atoms
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The article does currently read "Chemical compounds are pure chemical substances consisting of two or more different chemical elements...", and that's great. But the statement is unsourced, so I'm going to attach the Hill, Brown, and
Whitten books as references, leave this information here, and hope
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about a compound being the most complex pure substance. I reworded his statement to hopefully make it more clear, but I'm not sure it's strictly correct, and I'm not sure it belongs in the article. In truth, I think some fleshing out might make it obviously worthy, but am not currently clear on just
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consumable mentioned? And if the amino acids composing enzymes through which that fruit developed and matured were not in a particular stoichiometry (and structure), as dictated by its genome—again, the edible would be as imaginary as the non-stoichiometric world that this editor appears to imagine.
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definition then I would go with that; otherwise, my intuition says that Ozone (OO2) is a chemical compound. It is, after all, formed by the chemical bonding of two subunits -- one being the molecule O2 (itself a compound of O and O), and the other being a single atom of O. To exclude molecules such
1221:
In the "Definition" section it says "Any substance consisting of two or more different types of atoms (chemical elements) in a fixed proportion of its atoms (i.e., stoichiometry) can be termed a chemical compound; ...". Doesn't this definition falsely include mixtures (rather than just compounds)
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long before individual atoms could be imaged. Fortunately, most of the substances involved in these discoveries were highly stoichiometric, so that the subsequent discovery and investigation of non-stoichiometric compounds served to refine the atomic theory, rather than undermining it or delaying
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A compound IS a pure substance. The chemical definition of purity is that which consists of only 1 kind of representative particle, and a representative particle doesn't have to be a single atom. While a molecule has more than 1 atom (and of course a compound molecule has atoms of different atomic
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Sure, but for even more we do not. Why pretend? Most of our planet is not stoichiometric and has no more sure empirical formula than a "generic" histone or a starch molecule in a peach I'm eating, which might be the only ones with those methylation or branching patterns like them in the universe.
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compounds contain two or more elements. In fact,Zumdahl and
Wilbraham strongly imply that such is the case; otherwise, how could it be "broken down into elements" (Zumdahl)? (Wilbraham's "separated into simpler substances" is slightly more vague, but seriously... what else could it really mean?)
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The content I want add: The Hill System or also known as the Hill
Notation is a form of writing chemical formulas idea by Edwin A. Hill. It is used to set the order of the Carbon atom as first and Hydrogen atom as the second of a chemical formula. Ex. C12H22O11 If the following chemicals are not
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Depends. Let's take binaries. In my practice, simple solids which can be made into nearly perfect crystals (say, proper quality III-V and I-VII materials like GaAs, NaCl, maybe SiC) are well stoichiometric, with deviations on the ppm level. Indeed, there are many classes which are intrinsically
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It seems apparent to me that the general consensus definitely supports the idea that a compound must contain two or more elements. The few definitions that don't specifically mention this point (only
Zumdahl and Wilbraham in the list above) also don't by any means rule out the idea that the
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Fixed proportions, the fundamental distinction in the definition of this article's title term, is the difference between a superconductive material and a vial of chemical waste, between a safe and efficacious pharmaceutical and carbonaceous matter only suitable for combustion.
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This originially was "...by no bonds,..." which also doesn't make sense. It's been a while since I took a chemistry class, but I thought there were three types of bonds: hydrogen bonds, covalent bonds, and ionic bonds. Can someone in the know please decipher what it should be?
870:, this is harmful, ill-directed, and stifling. Do we take any medications (or just chew bark)? Use any man-made material (or knock stones together for rudimentary sharp edges)? And even then, do we think deeply about our bark, or stone, or about better ways of doing things?
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in a sample of matter may all be held together by ionic or covalent bonds, but they don't need to have (in fact usually do not have) neat empirical formulas you can write down on a bottle label. Most of the mantle and crust of our planet is such stuff--for example, the
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I came here and noticed many instances of vandalism. ive proposed it be semi protected. i question the appropriateness of the section called "Elementary concepts", it doesnt seem like it fits here, is unrefed, and unfortunately was added by a questionable new
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The term "chemical compound" has a meaning, and stoichiometry is what differentiates "compound" from "substance", to whit: "A substance formed from two or more elements chemically united in fixed proportions" as states the title terms
Oxfords' definition.
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non-stoichiometric (borides, carbides, most II-VI compounds, etc.), but it is tricky to compare their significance - by production volume, abundance, importance? Nature is a poor reference because synthesis is much cleaner and more homogeneous in the lab.
1451:
The first sentence of the article claims a chemical compound is "composed of many identical molecules." How many is "many"? Two? A million? This article concerns a scientific concept so I think it should be written as technically as possible.
1050:...what would have been a reasonable attempt to move this article, helpfully, toward resolving fundamental discrepancies between it and the most basic definitions of the title term—that is, by deleting and starting afresh—
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the deletion attempt failed because deletion was the wrong way to fix the problems with this article. We don't delete articles because they are badly written. We delete articles because the topic
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736:, and vice versa. We need to make it clear that whole-number stoichiometry sometimes happens, but usually it is just an ideal. Fixed ratios of atoms are the exception in nature, not the rule.
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The substitution of one isotope for another one won't change the chemistry but certainly the mass proportion, so I think a definition based on mass is completely out of the reason.
489:"A pure, macroscopically homogeneous substance consisting of atoms or ions of two or more different elements in definite proportions that cannot be separated by physical means" --
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I proposed deletion because the article has a large amount of text which is almost entirely devoid of sources. The new version should include enough sources from the beginning.
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This has already been addressed in the article, but just for the sake of future discussion, here are some references that I consider pretty "definitive". Chemical compound(s) =
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to clarify its meaning and to restore the talk page a little closer to its "pre-vandalized" state. I've also indented to clarify where each new entry in this section begins. --
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human ability to manipulate matter, in the field of chemistry, are based, in their history of success, in man's ability to systematically and experimentally manipulate
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chemical elements. It seems to me that everyone might be more or less satisfied if the definition simply removed the qualifier, "different". If someone can locate the
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its discovery. I think the present article expresses this situation fairly well, and is well on the way to becoming as well written as its topic deserves.
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effects; support more precisely targeted restrictions such as protecting only articles themselves, not associated Talk pages, or presenting pages as
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This article needs to move from meaningless and irrelevant to serve the important role that fundamental articles at WP are meant to serve.
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Removed - there are many (non-easy) ways of decomposing a solid into elements, for example by irradiating it with high-energy particles.
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FTA: "Elements in a compound cannot be separated by physical methods." Isn't electrolysis a physical method of decomposing a substance ?
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how to state it. The validity of the comment depends on the definition of 'purity' and so perhaps it doesn't belong. Be bold!
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which don't have clearly defined stoichiometry. These articles are all confused. The chemical compound article refers to
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Compounds are pure substances that contain two or more elements combined in a definite fixed proportion. this is not true
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by a
Harvard contributor. Cheers, await your efforts. If the article becomes workable, I too will join in. But this
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The fundamental distinction between compound and substance is everything to chemistry, and so to life as we know it.
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A chemical compound is a substance formed from two or more chemical elements chemically united in fixed proportions
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Chemical compounds have a unique and defined chemical structure; they consist of a fixed ratio of atoms? Say what?
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numbers), they share common valence electron orbitals. Therefore, a molecule is a single representative particle.
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342:==== H2, S8, N2, O3 are not compounds? What nonsense. Put in a DEFINITIVE reference to this silly claim. Hmph! :)
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Someone needs to add a chart of some kind about naming the compounds. I can produce it if no one feels up to it
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as H2, N2, O2, and OO2 seems arbitrary. What value does the distinction have? Why would the definition of
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compounds are formed during a chemical reaction of two or more elements or two or more types of atoms.
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Such ramblings as close this last Talk discussion above are a throw back to hundreds of years old
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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shouldn't the definition of a chemical compound rather be based on stoichiometry than on mass?
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1387:: insist that Knowledge's administrators adhere to Knowledge's own policies on keeping
1129:. I'm not a chemistry editor. Why don't you start if you're interested in the subject?--
447:, 4th Edition. Hill, Petrucci, McCreary, & Perry. Pearson/Prentice Hall. 2005. p. 6.
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The citation: The
Journal of the American Chemical Society, 1900, vol 22, p.478-494 -
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472:, 1st Edition. Wilbraham, Staley, Matta, & Waterman. Prentice Hall. 2002. p. 36.
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require this distinction? Is this distinction essential to the meaning of
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It should be written in its own content/tab, below the "Reactions" tab.
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that the controversy doesn't arise again. Crossing my fingers... :) --
404:(NOTE: I've restored the above revision... which was never signed... to
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a substance that contains "two types of atoms in fixed proportions" --
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Pure chemical elements are generally not considered chemical compounds
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1288:. This obvious solution just occurred to me but you beat me to it.
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should not be used directly. Use appropriate infobox or remove it.
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1157:. A badly written article about a notable topic is best fixed by
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that can be broken down into elements by chemical processes" --
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I've removed it and just replaced with the images themselves.
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The slipperiness of the notion of compound, as regard to
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Even though quite old, and so ignorable, as a last word,
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How can one group of compounds have so many functions????
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The ideas stated in the closing Talk entry ignore that
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This is not needed to be forced on this definition.
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American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language
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1467:I agree, this seems very important to specify.
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1022:— Preceding
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79:WikiProjects
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1292:Finnusertop
1280:Thank you,
1248:Finnusertop
1149:Leprof 7272
1112:Leprof 7272
985:Start here
727:plagioclase
651:—Preceding
331:Carl Kenner
253:—Preceding
193:70.36.61.40
36:speedy keep
1486:Categories
1393:collateral
1385:IP editors
1382:good-faith
1337:Thank you.
1070:Xxanthippe
1167:Srleffler
1159:fixing it
989:and here
730:feldspars
672:Vandalism
636:Wizard191
589:different
470:Chemistry
456:Chemistry
362:molecules
329:I agree.
135:Chemistry
126:chemistry
98:Chemistry
67:is rated
1413:Primefac
1380:Support
1364:? —DIV (
1362:moieties
1301:contribs
1284:Primefac
1268:Primefac
1257:contribs
1193:and the
1054:Alansohn
1036:contribs
1024:unsigned
858:Sbharris
653:unsigned
370:hydrogen
366:diatomic
360:Not all
255:unsigned
201:contribs
189:unsigned
28:deletion
1317:Hello,
1237:Infobox
993:, here
803:mineral
162:on the
69:B-class
1403:mobile
1224:QuoJar
811:halite
561:(talk)
420:(talk)
273:Purity
251:cool
210:TheSun
181:Naming
75:scale.
1094:99of9
1078:Bduke
847:arris
790:arris
751:arris
677:user.
593:IUPAC
56:This
1473:talk
1458:talk
1438:talk
1427:Ions
1417:talk
1370:talk
1343:talk
1297:talk
1272:talk
1253:talk
1228:talk
1208:talk
1171:talk
1163:bite
1116:talk
1108:mire
1032:talk
1007:talk
956:talk
823:talk
815:salt
813:and
766:talk
706:talk
683:talk
661:talk
640:talk
610:talk
604:? --
299:talk
277:Re:
263:talk
238:talk
197:talk
34:was
554:edi
413:edi
154:Top
1488::
1475:)
1460:)
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1299:â‹…
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1255:â‹…
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1005:(
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868::
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844:H
840:B
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821:(
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704:(
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297:(
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81::
38:.
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