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the other two criteria above; ârecognizable to readersâ and âconsistent with usage in reliable
English-language sourcesâ is no longer apparent. In an internet search of current news sources (which Knowledge guidance proposes as the most reliable comparative assessment), âEtihad Stadiumâ returns 537,000 citations, against 6,800 for âCity of Manchester Stadiumâ. Moreover, around half of these âCity of Manchester Stadiumâ search returns are specific to UEFA or FIFA sponsored competitions; and hence may be discounted from consideration, as both UEFA and FIFA notoriously rename sponsored stadiums in their publications if the usual name clashes with commercial sponsorship of UEFA and FIFA competitions; even where no other name is recognised (and the sponsored name commonly stands as the Knowledge article title). Most of the other search returns for âCity of Manchester Stadiumâ are historic; applying the old stadium name in recalling events ten years and more ago, when the stadium retained its original title. This is far from the first time this particular name change has been proposed; and formerly objectors have maintained that a general convention applies in Knowledge, not to use sponsored names for football venues and stadiums. No such convention is found though in the ânaming conventionsâ page. There is a note on
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1084:- nevertheless; there are good grounds for Knowledge not adopting a sponsor name simply because the stadium owner has entered into a naming deal: firstly, Knowledge should not be manipulated to promote a commercial sponsorship agenda; secondly, that many such venues do subsequently change their sponsor name, and that then leaves the article title having to be changed; thirdly, that there can be ambiguity when the same sponsor has naming rights to other venues; and fourthly, that sponsor names frequently do not become established as the regular name in general use. Did anyone ever call the
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1228:- I don't have a problem with new-build stadiums such as the Emirates Stadium or Walkers Stadium (now King Power Stadium) being named after sponsorship as there is no antecedent name. However, the City of Manchester Stadium was built without a sponsor for the 2002 Commonwealth Games and didn't have any sponsor until 2011. I can understand the WP:COMMONNAME rationale but it is already made clear in the opening sentence of the article and with a logo in the infobox that it is also known as the
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1578:, is there another example that could demonstrate this convention? Where we choose not to use a branded name even when it appears to be both the commonly used and official title? I'm not finding many, if any, where we choose not to use the most commonly used name in reliable sources because it is branded.--
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Thanks Number 57, but could you expand on "probably more widely known"? In the case of the Etihad
Stadium, the official/sponsor name appears to be the only name now regularly in use in notable news sources (excepting where FIFA and UEFA sponsorship deals constrain names used in their competitions).
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in
Manchester in 2002? It is rightly recognised as a good Knowledge principle: âIf an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed.â The current article title has the virtue of still being unambiguous; but its qualifications under
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Once again there seems to be an incipient edit war on the proper name for the article. This has been round the blocks several times already; but will keep coming back so long as the name 'Etihad Stdium' becomes increasingly established as the only one in current use. My own view is that the time to
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changed its sponsor name from âEtihad
Stadiumâ to âMarvel Stadium, the name âEtihad Stadium has been applied to only one football stadium â this one. So the official name âEtihad Stadiumâ is now ârecognizable to readers, unambiguous, and consistent with usage in reliable English-language sourcesâ.
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While this is currently the only active 'Etihad
Stadium' with an article, at some point Etihad may take over the naming rights at say Yankee Stadium. Then the argument would start as to which is the primary topic, best to leave it as a disambiguation page. While the Ethiad sponsorship is long term
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helpful if you could expand on your main pont; the guidance note states "Official
English names ... should always be considered as possibilities, but should be used only if they are actually the name most commonly used." are you proposing that 'Etihad Stadium' is not the most common name used?
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No, because it's not an official convention â no-one's ever bothered attempting to formalise it (as far as I'm aware) because this is a relatively minor thing and people have generally respected past consensus. But I assume you know this anyway and are just trying to make a point of some kind?
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recognise this change of use in the name of the article is well overdue; but I fully accept that this is an issue on which a number of editors have strong views. So I am just a sounding out of whether a formal request for a name change would now be considered appropriate by other editors?
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as both the common and official name. As far as I can see, there is not some sort of guideline that prohibits using branded names even when they are accurate and most common. Indeed, convention seems to be to go with longstanding common names, as the proposal
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It is beyond dispute that the official name for the stadium is âEtihad
Stadium; and it is beyond dispute also, that this is the most commonly used reference to the stadium in current news media and all other notable sources. Since September 2018, when the
1078:- there are a number of established Knowledge policies on article naming in respect of sponsored sports venues; but an absolute principle that sponsor names should be avoided is not one of them. Unless this has changed since we last discussed the change? see
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Which clearly qualifies it to be the title of the
Knowledge article. The question then arises; is this also true of the current name âCity of Manchester Stadiumâ; which was indeed the official name for the stadium when originally constructed for the
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To be honest, all I'd really need to believe this convention exists are enough examples where it was decided that pages where the overwhelmingly most common name should not be at the official title because it is branded. Mind pointing me their
1107:. The most important criteria is how the venue is most usually referred to, while seeking to avoid confusion and ambiguity. Even though it may commonly be less desirable to use a sponsor name; that is very much a second order consideration.
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I'm not sure you understand how
Knowledge works if that's your view on naming conventions. And as confirmed by GiantSnowman below, this convention does indeed exist; if you want further evidence, it was referenced by many editors in the
1095:- on the other hand; no name or edit in Knowledge is fixed for all time, if it is not formal Knowledge policy. There are increasing numbers of sports venues where the Knowledge article name is indeed the sponsor name;
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but in addition to the official name, it also seems to be the most commonly used name, as seen in Google news results comparing the two titles (and adding
Manchester to the search for proposed one to ensure accurate
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As some have said, this is mainly due to the sponsorship reasons that most of these articles don't have the sponsorship name. If this does past through, what is not stopping someone from requesting that
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Are these other articles also applying a name that is proportionally so uncommon in current news media as 'City of Manchester Stadium'? Can you give some relative counts?
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Though your idea is good in principle, there's no way I can support this, as your argument is primarily based on the official name of the venue.
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http://www.architecture.com/RIBA/Contactus/NewsAndPress/NewsArchive2002-2012/AwardsNews/Press/2004/CityOfManchesterStadiumWinsTheRIBA.aspx
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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http://www.footballgroundguide.com/leagues/england/premier-league/etihad-stadium-manchester-city-fc.html
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per the long-standing convention that we don't use sponsored names where a non-sponsored one exists.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page and join the
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be changed to Blundstone Arena as that is the current name for the stadium. Or recently,
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being sponsored by Marvel. This can easily see problems arise if it's successful.
1536:- as above. We do not use sponsored names for stadiums if there are alternatives.
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Could you reference this 'long-standing convention" within one of the categories
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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. â
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http://quaysnews.net/Manchester_City_The_future_of_womens_football-30358.html
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uses of "Falmer Stadium", most of which are from a few years ago.
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to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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For my club there's also 'Northern Commercials Stadium /
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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1601:(probably more widely known by its sponsored title "
1518:'s list of association football-related page moves.
499:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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1806:. No further edits should be made to this section.
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590:, a project which is currently considered to be
1658:A quick search of the BBC website shows around
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1232:therefore I don't think a move is necessary.
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876:http://www.colinspofforth.com/the_runner.htm
43:. Even so, if you can update or improve it,
39:as one of the best articles produced by the
33:; it (or a previous version of it) has been
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1597:Two that immediately come to mind are the
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31:featured article
23:
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1017:
1010:have permission
1000:
824:this simple FaQ
809:
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174:on Knowledge's
171:
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1792:requested move
1786:
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1748:Bellerive Oval
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1599:Falmer Stadium
1576:User:Number 57
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1230:Etihad Stadium
1175:Etihad Stadium
1168:
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1134:requested move
1128:
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1090:Phones4U Arena
1068:
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980:Added archive
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432:(assessed as
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1583:(let's chat)
1568:
1548:
1533:
1504:(let's chat)
1495:
1453:(let's chat)
1404:
1332:
1320:
1308:
1280:(let's chat)
1250:
1247:Oppose move.
1246:
1229:
1225:
1194:
1152:
1150:
1138:
1131:
1109:
1094:
1083:
1077:
1074:
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1045:
1020:source check
999:
993:
990:
813:
810:
791:
751:
743:
730:
710:
670:
599:Event Venues
591:
562:Event Venues
534:
494:
427:
389:
349:
278:
254:Architecture
245:Architecture
238:
201:Architecture
182:WikiProjects
150:
133:
114:
95:
45:please do so
34:
26:
1804:move review
1499:suggests.--
1362:Main page:
1275:results).--
1188:Main page:
1144:move review
97:Peer review
1845:Categories
1756:Matt294069
1646:TomHennell
1369:TomHennell
1292:TomHennell
1212:TomHennell
1112:TomHennell
1057:Report bug
681:discussion
36:identified
1800:talk page
1556:TrailBlzr
1409:TrailBlzr
1234:Stevo1000
1153:not moved
1040:this tool
1033:this tool
764:Archive 2
759:Archive 1
686:Athletics
633:Athletics
1802:or in a
1774:Bromptop
1641:Question
1569:Question
1405:official
1157:Dekimasu
1046:Cheers.â
744:Archives
593:inactive
567:inactive
365:Football
306:Football
172:FA-class
121:Promoted
102:Reviewed
1696:Snowman
1605:") and
1549:Support
1541:Snowman
1523:Snowman
1496:Support
1424:last RM
1323:Lugnuts
1317:website
1309:Support
1178:â (see
820:my edit
792:90 days
713:on the
537:on the
392:on the
311:England
281:on the
80:Process
1769:Oppose
1743:Oppose
1712:Oppose
1669:Number
1616:Number
1593:Yaksar
1580:Yaksar
1534:Oppose
1501:Yaksar
1463:Number
1450:Yaksar
1448:way?--
1429:Number
1385:Number
1338:Number
1333:Oppose
1315:. The
1277:Yaksar
1259:(talk)
1226:Oppose
178:scale.
83:Result
1693:Giant
1660:2,300
1572:Giant
1538:Giant
1520:Giant
752:Index
29:is a
1833:talk
1778:talk
1760:talk
1650:talk
1603:Amex
1560:talk
1551:Per
1413:talk
1373:talk
1311:per
1296:talk
1238:talk
1216:talk
1186:and
1182:and
1116:talk
1088:the
140:Kept
77:Date
1735:Jay
1732:Pee
1726:or
1664:100
1613:).
1574:or
1253:ONR
1014:RfC
984:to
974:to
964:to
954:to
944:to
934:to
924:to
914:to
904:to
894:to
884:to
874:to
864:to
854:to
844:to
834:to
705:Low
529:Mid
384:Mid
273:Mid
1847::
1835:)
1794:.
1780:)
1762:)
1652:)
1562:)
1415:)
1375:)
1367:?
1298:)
1240:)
1218:)
1193:.
1172:â
1161:ă!
1136:.
1118:)
1103:,
1099:,
1027:.
1022:}}
1018:{{
436:).
309::
1831:(
1776:(
1758:(
1679:7
1674:5
1648:(
1626:7
1621:5
1609:(
1595::
1591:@
1558:(
1473:7
1468:5
1439:7
1434:5
1411:(
1395:7
1390:5
1371:(
1348:7
1343:5
1294:(
1236:(
1214:(
1114:(
1059:)
1055:(
1042:.
1035:.
717:.
683:.
596:.
569:)
565:(
541:.
396:.
285:.
184::
47:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
