Talk:Cleopatra/Archive 5

982:

Egypt as a logical place to flee and had no idea that young Ptolemy XIII (or rather his court eunuchs) would ever dream of having him executed in a scheme to appease his rival Julius Caesar. The calculated move to assassinate Pompey backfired for Ptolemy XIII, of course, when hostilities broke out between his faction and Caesar's Roman army stationed in Alexandria. If it wasn't for Pompey, Caesar most likely would not have come to Egypt in the first place to act as a mediator resolving the conflict between Ptolemy XIII and Cleopatra, or perhaps Caesar would have arrived sometime much later in his career due to Egypt's importance as a source of vital grain shipments to Rome. Whatever the case, Pompey was the catalyst for Caesar meeting Cleopatra and then securing her on the throne with the death of Ptolemy XIII in the 47 BC Battle of the Nile. While all of this cannot be explained in the lead, I will try to do so succinctly with a single sentence simply noting that Pompey was a political ally to the Ptolemies, hence the reason for fleeing to Egypt.

855:, obviously a reliable source. However, I had it moved to a footnote because of the rather excessive emphasis on these attributes when they were minor aspects of her reign and personal life. She only commanded one other naval fleet aside from her ships at Actium in conjunction with those of Antony. Her using diplomacy is also what one would expect from any variety of heads of state in antiquity. Scholars still debate the veracity of her medical works being rightfully attributed to her, but this is explained in its appropriate place in the body of the article. Her being a linguist is perhaps the most worthwhile or unquestionable item in this list, but this is mentioned in the body sufficiently and the lead paragraph already mentions how she learned the Egyptian language after her native Koine Greek. I wouldn't remove the footnote, I still find it valuable, but I wouldn't put it back in the lead text of the article either. 2838:...because I'm an American who wrote it and successfully nominated it as a featured article? ;) Quite frankly I don't mind writing in British English and conforming to its conventions of spelling and punctuation, but it is just natural for me to write things in American English. Is that really a problem? People who write in British English do not have a monopoly on articles about history, especially a biographical topic of distant antiquity that has nothing to do with the British Isles (aside from the loose association of Cleopatra's relationship with Julius Caesar, the first Roman statesman to invade the British Isles). 1023:

his previous personal friendship and (now broken) marriage alliance with him, and wanted the propaganda victory of a benevolent leader showing clemency to his bested foes. Caesar was undoubtedly shocked when he learned Ptolemy XIII (and his advisers) had Pompey - a former Roman consul - killed for the sole purpose of appeasing Caesar and currying favor with him. It was all around a terrible move when it would have been better to capture Pompey and hand him over to Caesar, especially considering how Caesar and Ptolemy XIII came into conflict with each other soon afterwards.

1961:(with a Wiki link) is definitely used in the article, in the "Background" sub-section under the main "Biography" one. The article is long enough as it is. We don't need to go on a tangent about the use of that exceedingly common term for rulers of Egypt, especially when her other more specific titles are already explained. The Wiki article for "pharaoh" is also hidden in a link for "ruler" in the very first sentence of the lead section. I think that is more than sufficient. If people want to know more about that term, they can consult that article via the links provided. 2434: 2075: 439:

interpreters, showing that this was neither normal nor expected. Latin would have been useful to her not so much to speak to Romans but to read material in that language, such as the transcript of the trial of her father's banker Rabirius Postumus and senatorial actions relating to her kingdom. In addition, the Romans used Latin more than might be expected in the Levantine territories Cleopatra desired, because of a long-standing antipathy to Greek in this region and at least one of her decrees, directed to a Jewish community, probably to Leontopolis, used some Latin.

909:(an explanatory supplement but not policy), the primary purpose of a Knowledge lead is to summarize an article's contents. Therefore, if it's not in the body of the article, it shouldn't be in the lead. If the article doesn't support the characterization as a medical author or linguist, and only minimally supports the characterization as a naval commander and diplomat, then I question whether it would be appropriate to restore these characterizations to the main text of the lead. At this point, I have no opinion about the lead's treatment of Caesarion. – 1743: 3023:. Discussions about genetics are unwarranted until we discover the remains of the Ptolemies, in particular Cleopatra. The Ancestry section of this article (in my view) does a decent job explaining her foreign origins as an ethnic Macedonian Greek of partial Iranian descent via Seleucid royal marriage. That's really all we can do for now, that and mention the modern scholarly speculation that her mother might have been partially native Egyptian (which remains entirely conjecture at this point, something that is dutifully pointed out in the article). 3234:, meaning it has already been vetted by the community for quality content and prose writing. Please do not edit the article further without discussing significant changes here, especially when introducing terms that are not common in English, such as the word "effectuate" in a context where it is not commonly used and does not make sense. Most people who read English Knowledge will struggle to understand why that word is used there; for that matter it is not used properly. What you have done is not a drastic improvement of the prose. Regards, 2051:. The first film from 1899 directed by Méliès is already mentioned. Notice also how the films starring Bara, Colbert, and Taylor are mentioned in the article, noteworthy because of their enormous cultural impact and, in the case of Taylor's film, their enduring legacy. The film with Gardner didn't have the same impact on popular culture, at least not from what I have read. Without a proper academic source, I don't think it would be appropriate to even mention the film with Gardner. You're welcome to create a wholly new sub-article about 2163:

Google Assistant's main voice command suggestions for Android Samsung Galaxy phone users. The views are real, although it's impossible to say how much of the article the vast majority of these people bother to read beyond the lead section. We speculated that it might be bot activity, but that doesn't really make any sense and the mystery was basically solved above. I wouldn't have figured it out for myself because I'm an iPhone user, never owned a Samsung, and I rarely use voice commands (versus manually typing things out).

952:

Roman dictator and consul) in Caesar's Civil War, the Roman statesman Pompey fled to Egypt, where Ptolemy had him killed while Caesar occupied Alexandria." It is preceded and followed by statements involving Cleopatra, but it is unclear to me what this sentence communicates about Cleopatra. Is its purpose to illustrate what brought Caesar to Egypt? What brought Pompey to Egypt? Both? Something else? Other than the facts, what it conveys about Cleopatra is unclear. Thanks for any elaboration anyone can provide. –

2966:. From what I have seen, this is a modern scholarly debate that is discussed in most biographies of the queen published in the last few decades. The article carefully navigates this topic by emphasizing that the hypothesis about a partially Egyptian mother (possibly from the priestly household of Ptah at Memphis) is still unproven and entirely conjecture. It is noteworthy in the "Ancestry" section of this article because of the frequency of its discussion in academic works. Knowledge is merely a reflection of 496:

directly, please feel free to create a footnote with an academic source providing a counterpoint or explaining how Cleopatra knowing how to read and write in Latin might be a dubious argument. Roller is obviously not the only authority on the subject, so other voices in academia are obviously always welcome, especially if they challenge his assertions directly and demonstrate that there isn't a full scholarly consensus on any given issue involving Cleopatra and her reign.

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the article so that it doesn't simply state the languages attributed to Cleopatra as fact) doesn't mention the Romans in his list, and it was the dissenting Reddit comment that called my attention upon this detail. But since I don't have any academic support, I won't change the article on that point; I just wondered about Roller's confidence and thought you might know more. After all, there might be additional, confirming evidence that I'm not aware of. --

31: 2897:, Burstein, and Hölbl. So to write this is "in no way accepted" is just simply categorically false. We cannot know for absolute certain Cleopatra's maternity, although I agree with most scholars she is Cleopatra V/VI (also of uncertain parentage) and even today I added context challenging the hypothesis. I suggest you read all of these scholarly works, instead of, presumably, here to rage about the new Netflix documentary. 1363:" and for that matter there is already a black basalt statue of Cleopatra in the "Cultural Depictions" sub-section of this article. Also, we're talking about white marble here, which by default is white when unpainted or has lost its pigment. Cleopatra was also Macedonian Greek (i.e. colonial European), with no evidence she was native Egyptian/Nubian/African. You did read the "Ancestry" section of this article, right? 761:(especially since this one did not take up additional lines), and this one in particular is of importance in introducing and defining the subject of the article. It could well be restored to the main text. If space is still a concern, then the fragment "nominally survived as pharaoh by her son Caesarion" (which lacks importance here) could be moved to the footnote explaining his pseudo-reign. 3502: 2382: 1984: 1694: 1513: 623: 550: 2970:, and in this case biographies on Cleopatra ranging from Burstein (2004) to Roller (2010) weigh in on the subject. In regards to the passage about her ancestry, suggesting that we "strike it immediately" in a Featured status article vetted by the Wiki community without considerable discussion or debate on the talk page is unwarranted and not how Knowledge works; for that see 2988:

especially if there was nonnative rulers and some degree of uncertainty requiring scholarship to fully parse. In the history of humanity there are too many examples of known minority rulers who are clearly not of the native ancestry even after many years (one example is Abaqa Khan over Ilkhanate). This is relevant and should be discussed in such a biographical article.

3551: 441:" ---- So there you have it, with proof that Cleopatra used Latin in one of her own decrees. Roller's argument about senatorial litigation makes sense as well, especially considering that Cleopatra lived in Roman Italy for years of her youth, first as a child exile with her father during the short-lived reign of his rival daughter 891:

moved to the footnote, where the rest of the explanation is. I'm not sure if there is a specific rule for footnotes in the lead section, but the section itself is already cluttered with them. Perhaps the part on her being a linguist, author etc. could be moved to the last paragraph with the status of an additional curiosity?

826:

mention this in the first paragraph of the lede, as if it was one of her main activities (d) "diplomat": every head of state does diplomacy, but a diplomat is a representative obeying orders, it cannot be a king, or a queen in this case. I haven't re-read everything so I may have missed something though.

2472:

The notes section of the article would be littered with Plutarch passages and those of other ancient sources if we provided direct primary source quotations every time an event is described in the article. The bed sack thing is honestly not important enough to warrant that, in my opinion. The average

1896:

wow! Thanks for letting us know. I'm out of the loop on these sorts of things, especially since I'm an iPhone user and I rarely use voice searches since I'm a fast typist. That's incredible to know these viewer numbers are legit. It's mind boggling when you consider the daily average is above 130,000

1430:

Surely there's a better way to present this information than simply listing off each date and its respective supporters? That's how the relevant footnote describes the issue, giving the impression that it's hotly debated, that there are lots of complicated and contradicting ancient evidence which can

1022:

yes, that is correct. Caesar came to Egypt not yet knowing that Pompey had been killed and was still pursuing him and trying to capture him as a prisoner of war following the Battle of Pharsalus. It might be true or not, but Caesar was said to have wept when he learned that Pompey died, on account of

825:

I have reservations regarding (a) "medical author": the article tells that this is doubted (b) "linguist": the article doesn't tell (c) "naval commander": it is only said that she commanded the rear-guard at Actium, this arguably could be enough to receive this status, but I think it's quite a lot to

516:

As a linguist, I'm not conversant with the literature on Cleopatra – just pointing out that the evidence you're advancing as proof, and Roller is accepting as proof, isn't all that strong. It's certainly striking that the Plutarch quotation (not necessarily compelling proof, either – I've now amended

469:

While it wouldn't be surprising if a polyglot like Cleopatra apparently was also knew Latin, I do wonder where Roller takes this conclusion from with so much confidence. Occasional texts authored by Cleopatra wholly or partly in Latin can have been produced with the help of assistants, so they do not

1150:

hello. I'm going to have to disagree about this. Why are we emphasizing the word "king" here so much? Why are we consistently capitalizing the word "king" here without it being coupled to his name Ptolemy XII Auletes, a proper noun? The word "king" by itself is not a proper noun, even when referring

1068:

Yes, I would say it's okay for the most part. On the issue of Pompey fleeing to Egypt, you highlighted a part that was highly problematic, far too vague for its own good, and desperately needed to be fixed with proper context and clarification. I can't say the same for other parts of the lead, which

282:

See also the "Ethiopian - Ethio-Semitic or Sudanese" section (archive 4 of this talk page). I think the same applies to Arabian/Arabic: 'Arabians' probably refers to the inhabitants of the Sinai, which would later become the Roman province of Arabia Petraea. They certainly did not speak the language

3006:

yet to be discovered, thus her remains have not been found for us to analyze in terms of DNA analysis or genomic reconstruction. To this day none of the Ptolemaic royal tombs or remains have been found. It is possible they were destroyed and buried beneath the waters of the Mediterranean during the

2205:

is not Macedonian greek is just Macedonian empire and Alexander and Macednonians never speak Greek they speak Macedonian like in all documents is saying language diferent then helenic not greek like helenic king Demosten was saying about Macedonian because they are barbara and they speak different

1848:

If that's the case, why on Earth would anyone bother to boost this article's views with bots? I just don't see any reason why someone would bother to do that, even for a high profile monarch from ancient history. I can understand why that happens for current events or living people like celebrities

951:

I have a question that arises out of an effort to make a few minor tweaks to improve the narrative flow in the lead. I'm not understanding the communicative intent of this sentence (quoted as of 18 April 2020): "After losing the 48 BC Battle of Pharsalus in Greece against his rival Julius Caesar (a

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ruler of Ptolemaic Egypt, and proceeds to make mention of a supposed nominal reign of her son, itself elaborated on a subsequent footnote. The fragment "nominally survived as pharaoh by her son Caesarion" can hardly be considered important information on Cleopatra herself, and should, I believe, be

731:

when she was only four years old in 47 BC. You are either misreading or totally misrepresenting your rather pedestrian popular history by Georgia Bragg or she made a seriously bad typo that you are now parading around in contradiction to the entire corpus of academic literature regarding Cleopatra.

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In addition to her native Greek, she also knew Latin, although the Romans with whom she came into contact would insist on speaking Greek. Greek had been used officially by the Romans since the early 3rd century B.C., and in Cleopatra's day Cicero complained that there were still people who demanded

3301:

edit summary on this article has been "this article needs serious tidying up", but all your edits amount to is fiddling round with the prose, sometimes making the meaning less clear, and with some grammatical errors (near "revolt"). This is an FA, written by a very experienced editor in this area,

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sentence structure or claims being made here. That's especially the case since it is Roller (2010) who is offering this argument. This is not just some original research or opinion of mine, this is a Classicist and specialist in this field making this particular claim and using Syme as an example.

2663:

I would like to see this claim about automated views be substantiated, because another user in a now archived discussion here on the talk page already explained why this article is getting so many views. It's because of Samsung Android smartphone voice command features, which apparently includes a

981:

from power in Egypt. By the time Ptolemy lost the Battle of Pharsalus Ptolemy XII Auletes was dead, but his son Ptolemy XIII was sitting on the throne and engaging in his own civil war with his sister Cleopatra VII. Pompey trusted the Ptolemies as close confidants and political allies, so he chose

972:

Hello! This is a consequence of too many cooks spoiling the broth, so to speak, by attempting to shorten the lead section to what they perceive as the optimal size. In doing so, however, they have excised too many critical and contextual details that are useful to the reader, in my opinion. Pompey

115:

I've never heard anyone suggest this here and I've been closely monitoring the talk page since at least the beginning of 2018 (when I started working on lifting the article to Featured status). Perhaps you should wait a few days, but if no one chimes in, I think it would be great for you to pursue

3041:

for instance). It is quite possible we'll never find the remains of Cleopatra or even be able to form any DNA analysis if she was cremated like most Greeks at the time. IIRC, it was Plutarch who suggested she was mummified in the Egyptian style alongside Mark Antony, but that is obviously another

2987:

Not a real encyclopedia? If you have any specific and concrete change, then we can talk. Let's leave the scholarship to scholars whose work has been peer reviewed by other scholars, many of whom have African heritage themselves. Many articles discuss genetics and race of great historical figures,

2864:

You know this is in no way accepted by scholars- which, to be fair, the article mentions- but neither is it noteworthy enough to be given space (especially when there are so many factual episodes that have to be truncated or omitted). So why is it here? You realize that, by including it, you're

2486:

Apologies for late reply, but surely instead of citing 3 secondary sources - which just cite the source I posted - it would be best to just post the primary source, that of Plutarch? Surely this simplifies the notes section by getting rid of three secondary sources which just themselves reference

2731:

This ("Cleopatra's gender has ... led to her depiction as a minor ... figure") appears to mean that she is being depicted as minor because of her gender - that she would be depicted as a major figure if she were male. However, the following sentence seems to contradict this, and say that she was

2726:

Cleopatra's gender has perhaps led to her depiction as a minor if not insignificant figure in ancient, medieval, and even modern historiography about ancient Egypt and the Greco-Roman world. For instance, the historian Ronald Syme asserted that she was of little importance to Caesar and that the

2349:

I think it's pretty fair to say Ptolemy XIII (and his eunuch handlers) disapproved of Cleopatra VII plotting and flirting with Caesar in the royal palace. The sentence in question sounds fine to me: "When Ptolemy XIII realized that his sister was in the palace consorting directly with Caesar, he

2239:

dialect. A large group of scholars who disagree with that still place it and Greek under a larger "Hellenic" branch of the Indo-European language family. A minority of scholars believe it was an entirely different Indo-European language similar to Thracian or Illyrian. This sort of discussion is

973:

fled to Egypt because he had no other recourse after losing the Battle of Pharsalus. Pompey had previously met Ptolemy XII Auletes in Rome during the latter's exile and didn't just know him personally, he was the chief architect of restoring him to the throne in Egypt. Pompey was the one who had

177:

hello once again! We're moving past the middle of the summer now, and I was wondering if you were still interested in doing a spoken article? The lead section has been changed a little bit since we last spoke, but not significantly. The rest of the article has been basically static, so you could

2787:

Her gaining great levels of attention is not the exact same thing as being deemed insignificant or inconsequential compared to male contemporaries. That's exactly what Syme was arguing, saying she was a figure of little importance compared to Caesar. Again, there's really nothing wrong with the

2162:

This has already been addressed above, so no need to keep spamming the talk page with repetitive discussions. Nobody is "manipulating the views", that's absurd. As one editor above kindly pointed out for us, the massive amount of views this article is receiving is almost certainly due to one of

1621:

Only a specialist knows there was more than one Egyptian-Macedonian or Macedonian "Cleopatra" - the common name is only known as the one most famous in history, cinema, novels, etc. Please read - and learn - and most importantly, LIVE WP:Commonname if you are going to be anything more than an

1048:

still hold true? "I carefully planned the current setup so that the first paragraph would provide essential details, the second would summarize her childhood up to the birth of her son allegedly sired by Caesar, the third paragraph would detail her relationship with Antony and their subsequent

495:

that's certainly a legitimate argument, but Roller (a credentialed classicist) is a reliable source published by a university press. He's certainly not a fringe author on this subject, so I don't think it warrants removing the mention of Latin here. If you can find a source to contradict him

760:

the sentence "She was also a diplomat, naval commander, linguist, and medical author" was removed from the 1st paragraph of the lead and placed in a footnote, apparently over concerns that the section was too large. A single sentence, however, will hardly have a significant impact on space

1442:

If neither date is technically wrong and the gap between them is just a matter of calendar reckoning, then perhaps it would be appropriate to display a single date of death, in the same calendar as the other dates in the article, and have a footnote somewhere describing the discrepancy.

2664:

common illustrative suggestion to open up the Knowledge article on Cleopatra. I would have never known this as an iPhone user, so it was quite revealing. The views are thus seemingly legit, so let's please nix this conversation, since it has no bearing on improving the current article.

2573:

I expect this is just a vacuous test comment, just slightly less vacuous than the ones that have been removed from this page as nonsense over the past few months. No doubt this page attracts so many test comments because the article receives such an absurdly high number of pageviews.

1938:

Short description says “Last active pharoah …”, but the word Pharoah is never used in the article, This seems like an odd situation! Should we change the Short description to ‘last active ruler’? Or expand the article to include discussion of her title? Or neither?

1406:

That's nice, but not really necessary, since the current picture in the article is an appropriate close-up on the two monarchs in carved relief, without emphasizing all the other details. The photograph you've shared here would be more useful in the article on the

2505:). Knowledge articles on history should reflect the consensus positions of modern scholarship, i.e. secondary sources. Ancient primary sources are to be used sparingly and in proper context, such as a direct quote from a primary source if it is somehow needed. 2350:

attempted to rouse the populace of Alexandria into a riot, but he was arrested by Caesar, who used his oratorical skills to calm the frenzied crowd." If you have a better suggestion feel free to offer it, and perhaps do so without being slightly rude. Thanks.

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as their first and native language. This article is also not a place for a debate about their language, as scholars are still unsure how it should be classified, but with a scant amount of evidence, a small majority of academics theorize it was a northwestern

1091:

I'd like to suggest some minor copy-editing of the following 2 sentences in order to help the flow. In an effort to achieve consensus, I am making the suggestion here. If there are no significant objections, I will make the change in the article. Thanks.

1871:

Hello, this has been a trending article for so long because it is one of the Google Assistant's suggested voice searches. When you press the assistant button on an Android, it might give you a prompt saying "Try saying: Show me Cleopatra on Knowledge"

1043:

I read the previous discussions about the lead in the archives of the Talk pages here. I recognize that the lead has seen numerous "cooks" and lots of edits in the journey to GA & FA status. In your opinion, does the organization you described

2860:

Why is there all of this fanciful conjecture about Cleopatra's ancestry in an encyclopedia article? That imagination exercise, that her mother was some unknown, half Greek, half Egyptian woman with familial ties to the priesthood of Ptah?..

2028:

I would like to add in the excerpt of the text where he talks about the actresses who played Claopatra, this missing mention of the 1912 movie Cleopatra starring Helen Gardner. it already has a page on wikipedia about the film and the actress

3320:

Agreed. It would be one thing if this user found and corrected an earnest mistake, but all they really did was introduce unwanted grammatical errors, insert punctuation choices that deviate from the rest of the article and guidelines of the

1002:

Hi! Great job with cultivating the article! So, the purpose of that paragraph is to illustrate how Cleopatra ascended the throne, and the purpose of that sentence (now sentences) in particular is to show how Caesar came to Egypt? Thanks. –

1725:

Pleaae write Cleopatra VII as her title name otherwise it is not clear in regards with all the other Cleopatras especially if used in other ARTICLES AS THE ONE ON THE TIMETABLE OF cYPRES WHERE Cleopatra III and Cleopatra VII are mentioned

726:

Cleopatra was not 21 when she died in 30 BC, that's hilarious. By that ridiculous logic, she would have only been three years old when she met Julius Caesar and had an affair with him in 48 BC and then would have given birth to his child

2221:

This is not the place for this argument. As cited in the article, most scholarly sources refer to Ptolemaic queen Cleopatra VII Philopator as either a "Macedonian Greek" or a "Greco-Macedonian". Also, by the reign of Cleopatra VII all

2417:)) "she stretched herself at full length inside a bed-sack" (Plutarch. Plutarch's Lives. with an English Translation by. Bernadotte Perrin. Cambridge, MA. Harvard University Press. London. William Heinemann Ltd. 1919. 7. is citation) 3036:

While it's inclusion is not warranted in the article, it's perhaps worthwhile to note here that ancient Greeks and Latin Romans from Italy cremated their dead and the Egyptians mummified theirs (even after becoming Romanized, see

277:

She also spoke Ethiopian, Trogodyte, Hebrew (or Aramaic), Arabic, the Syrian language (perhaps Syriac), Median, Parthian, and Latin, although her Roman contemporaries would have preferred to speak with her in her native Koine

1343:

The exclusion of these types of artistic depictions erases the ethnic ambiguity of Cleopatra from the historical narrative which ultimately perpetuates the trope of the civilized white body and the uncivilized brown body.

2413:" Plutarch provides an entirely different and perhaps mythical account that alleges she was bound inside a bed sack to be smuggled into the palace to meet Caesar. " add actual Plutarch source (Plut. Vit. Caes. 49.1) (( 92:

Hi there, I'm looking at making a Spoken version of the Cleopatra article. I just wanted to check and see if anyone already has something in progress? It's a long article so I don't want to duplicate efforts. Cheers,

1173:, let me ask if anyone else is interested in chiming in. Knowledge is a group effort, and no single article belongs to or is written by any single individual. PericlesofAthens, thank you for sharing your input.– 654:

RE: @Thjarkur: I read from a book called How They Croaked by Georgia Bragg . It's recent(published in 2019), and reliable(people on Knowledge "always" mess with everything). I hope this answers your questions.

2556:? Also, the article thoroughly covers the topic of the geographical extent of her kingdom from Egypt to Cyprus, and the domains in the Roman east that she was to rule indirectly as fiefs through Mark Antony's 2772:

It's fine if the sentence is supposed to mean "her role in history is downplayed because she is a woman". But isn't this trying to say the opposite ("she receives MORE attention because she's female")?

850:

hello once again! This is precisely why I had it moved to a footnote. To its defense, these claims appear prominently at the very beginning of the 2010 Oxford University Press biography on Cleopatra by

1431:

point to either 10 or 12 August. One of the sources, Roller, seems completely unaware of any such debate or controversy: he just baldly says the date is 10 August. The only source he in turn gives is

1581:

It would be more professional and academic to refer to Cleopatra VII with her regnal number than without. While most readers would call her just Queen Cleopatra, there are 7 Cleopatras in reality.

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we call 'Arabic' today (nor one of its ancestors). I don't have access to the cited sources but it seems they refer to the list by Plutarch, which might not be a reliable source. I got this from

3620:

The page has been edited today to only state one sentence: "cleopatra was a girlboss and pretty slay (sic)" I'm unable to re-edit the article back to what it was. Can someone else resolve this?

2207: 1432: 445:, and later as an adult lover of Julius Caesar in his villa located just outside of Rome. When Caesar was assassinated she was even in the city attempting to form a legal basis for their son 1151:

to someone directly, and is only ever capitalized when combined with the monarch's name. I honestly don't see the problem with the original sentences, since they read just fine in context.

1283:

Precisely. Cleopatra VII Philopator was only the seventh (or sixth) queen of the Ptolemaic dynasty named Cleopatra and that's just including the Ptolemies, not even all of those of the

2865:

giving it undue attention and elevating it to the notice of millions. I don't understand how this made it into the article in the first place, but recommend you strike it immediately.

198:

Thanks for the reminder, I have some time to pick this up again and will work on it over the next couple of weeks. It's a long article so I will do it in a few parts. Cheers --

3230:

over the article's prose in the lead section, after being repeatedly asked in edit summaries to first discuss changes here on the talk page. This is one of our encyclopedia's

3261: 2774: 2733: 1788:). Is this just bots? There seems to be a disagreement about "Cleopatra" versus "Cleopatra VII" but this does not seem to be the result of an edit war or anything like that. 2680:

No questioning. Just brought an insider possible explanation I found inside WP. I also don't have problem If we eliminate the thread, as It feels like a WP:FORUM. Cheers, --

2318:

That's a rather rigid way to look at it; are you a native speaker of English? There's honestly nothing wrong with saying they maintained an affair, which is what they did.

3350:

In the Infobox, her father's name is not hyperlinked but her mother's name is. Can you please hyperlink his name? Thank you. Example: Ptolemy XII should have ] around it.

156:

Hiya, I started the recording back in October/November but my schedule has gotten a lot busier lately so I put it on hold. I'm hoping to pick it up again in the Spring. --

1853:

since October 2020 when news broke that she landed the role for Cleopatra, it appears this article gets way more views than hers. I suppose something weird is going on.

2047:. It's not important for this main article on Cleopatra to list every single movie about the queen, since there are many of them and doing so would lend Gardner's film 219:

Thanks! That sounds marvelous. I can't wait to hear it. The Wiki community and indeed its entire reading audience will be indebted to your contributions. Kind regards,

2893:

is considered the most eminent scholar by many on Cleopatra. His hypothesis isn't without circumstantial evidence, and is built upon the works of prior scholars like

470:

constitute sufficient proof on their own. There are a lot of things claimed as "undoubtedly" true where I just don't see the evidential basis for this judgment. Even

3197:

Cleopatra's mother: this is mentioned with citations in the article on Cleo VI. So I'm going to go ahead and try (again!) to change the text to “Mother: presumably

3325:, and offer improper uses of certain terms that don't make sense in their given context. We should all observe that old adage: "if it's not broke, don't fix it." 3143:(which is mentioned on both these pages). If they are the same, then obviously Cleo VI is “also” the mother of Cleopatra but only because they are the same woman. 3189:

known as Cleo V. If that were true Knowledge wouldn't have two separate articles about the same person. Cleo VI has a separate article exactly because she was

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The increase in views is too high and continuous to be real. It's currently not in the the news, but the numbers are over the top. Definitely not natural. --

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as the mother of Cleopatra. The article also mentions that if Cleo VI existed as a separate person she would be a (half)sister to Cleopatra, not her mother.

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Suggestion: After the King and Cleopatra returned to Egypt with Roman military assistance, Berenice was killed in 55 BC, allowing the King to regain power.

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It's not a real encyclopedia if it allows critical thought and academic scholarship, of course, especially if it doesn't align with certain racial biases.

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Cleopatra's mother, we should not link to that article as the presumed mother of Cleopatra! Instead, we should link to Cleo V, the only known candidate.

2615:

I've been keeping an eye on this article's near constant presence in the top read section on Knowledge since September 2020. Why?! It's so bewildering!!

736:, with a discussion about the contention within academia and why there isn't a full scholarly consensus for either the 10 or 12 of August in 30 BC. -- 1809:

slotted to play her in a movie to be produced in the near future. Popular media is usually the biggest driver of greater article views on Knowledge.

1487:. In the meantime, I have made a hidden link for "pharaoh" for the word "ruler" in the very first sentence of the lead. I think that should suffice. 2044: 1897:

views. If it maintained that exact number every day for a whole year, i.e. 365 days, that would amount to over 47.4 million views. LOL. Staggering.

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You can only maintain something that is already there. Yet, in the lead, the affair is suddenly there. Should we change "maintained" to "started"?

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irrelevant to Cleopatra, though, and we should be using the terminology favored by the majority of relevant academics in describing her ethnicity.

1295:(his only full-blooded sibling, not just a half-sister). Then we have women named Cleopatra who didn't even really exist because they were part of 2737: 872:, who wrote a now-lost dictionary of Etruscan—I'd support describing her as a linguist, but simply being a polyglot does not make her a linguist. 3124:

The rationale for the change is as follows. If you disagree with any of the facts below discuss it here instead of simply reverting the change.

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The family tree section is confusing to me - shouldn’t there be a legend that tells you what the different line patterns (dashed, solid) mean?

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I agree with Pericles that "King" is vague and not even the correct title. The first suggestion is also longer, while the lede is long enough.

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Bragg, Georgia. “How They Croaked by Georgia Bragg.” Goodreads, Amazon, LLC., Aug. 2019, www.goodreads.com/book/show/9111463-how-they-croaked.

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it referred to the inhabitants of the Sinai, it's not improbable that they spoke a language at least closely related to Classical Arabic; see

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actually is already linked in the info box, in the field labelled "predecessor". We generally do not link things twice in the same info box.

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most people will know her as just Cleopatra, and will search for her as just Cleopatra, so this article is likely to stay at just Cleopatra.

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who introduced the name to the Ptolemaic line or just other previous random Greek/Macedonian women like the sister of Alexander the Great:

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or partisan politicians, but this is a long dead Ptolemaic queen we're talking about. However, judging by the views received for the page

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On display are white monochrome statues of Cleopatra. There are no displays of black monochrome statues of Cleopatra. Such as this one: (

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fall under that category. Ronald Syme is the one explicitly downplaying her importance in this example. This is an observation made by

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is likely attested in the 1st century BC inscription from Qaryat al-Faw, and the article is (somewhat indirectly, through a mention of

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The mother of Cleopatra is not known with 100% certainty, but there is only one possible candidate who is known by name and that is

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In addition to these changes being largely unnecessary, you have also incorrectly used a hyphen for a sentence break instead of an

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reader will already have a difficult time navigating through all the notes and the vast majority of readers will not utilize them.

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aillustrating how the temple looks overall. For that reason the current picture should stay and this one should be used elsewhere.

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21 years is for how long she reigned. Since there is uncertainty about her birth date, both are mentioned and further explained in

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to become the lawful heir of Julius Caesar and the true inheritor of his will, a document that was undoubtedly written in Latin.

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was born in Egypt as a Ptolemaic princess but she married into the Seleucid dynasty and ruled from Syria in the 2nd century BC.

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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a

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It is always best to check the archives when asking a question like this. I think you may find the answer to your question at

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I'm more interested in where the conclusion comes from that she spoke Latin, since the Reddit comment indicates otherwise. --

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Change the birth dates. There one that says 21 years old when she died. Also change the death date. It's August 10, not 12.

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No. Knowledge guidelines are firmly against that (see for instance the recent "Featured Article Review" for the article on

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I thought you might want to take a look at this and provide your judgment about the latest round of edits by this user.

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Good point – it's entirely possible that the "Arabians" mentioned by Plutarch were people from South Arabia, instead. --

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It is already in plain English. You've never heard the fairly common phrase "consorting with the enemy"? To consort:

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Either way, the dates for Cleopatra's birth and death are fully explained in the article footnote referred to you by

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the document in question was written in Latin – so what? Again, she would have had assistants available if needed. --

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Caesar declared Cleopatra and her brother Ptolemy XIV joint rulers but maintained a private affair with Cleopatra...

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That sounds very sensible. I remember when the sentence was in the lead and it looked like a very good definition.

783: 522: 479: 412: 394: 329: 38: 3201:” and if you want to revert it, please don't do so without providing a solid argument why my reasoning is wrong. 2019: 1877: 436:(2010) as a model. The claim about Latin actually comes from Roller (pp. 46–48), who I can quote for you here: " 324:) even attested in Herodotus. But thanks for the Reddit link as it provides a direct quotation from Plutarch. -- 3008: 1831: 1612: 1592: 1095:

Original sentence: Berenice was killed in 55 BC when Ptolemy returned to Egypt with Roman military assistance.

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downfall, and the fourth paragraph would explain her legacy and relevance in art and popular media." Thanks. –

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No, I don't think it has anything to do with bots. I would assume it has something to do with news of actress

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I suppose this sentence was moved to footnote because it was a bit overblown, but now I support its removal.

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Hello! I'm the one who wrote the majority of the article and nominated it for FA status, relying largely on

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No, the statement is perfectly fine. Notice the stress on "even modern historiography" there; the works of

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It seems this article has been one of the top 5 most-viewed articles on and off throughout 2021 (see e.g.

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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —

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Going through the Edit Request backlog and am going to close this one as per the explanation provided by

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misleadingly cites Skeat as one of the supporters of 12 August, despite Roller using him as his source).

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look okay. The overall organization of the lead section that you've mentioned here is also still intact.

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whuich seems to be a new one for you. As Pericles says, I would propose any further changes here first.

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The word choice is fine, actually, especially since the same sentence mentions the birth of their child

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As explained by a footnote in the page you linked to, the Cleopatra who is mentioned in 1 Maccabees is

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https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/d47u90/how_did_cleopatra_speak_arabic_if_the_language/

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treated as MORE important because of her gender. Can someone fix these sentences so they make sense?

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http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Plut.+Caes.+49&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0244

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what does the phrase "consorting directly with Caesar" mean? How about saying it in plain English? –

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No such thing as oratorix or skill or calm or attracx or not, say/can say any nmw and any be perfx

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Thank you for repeating the Samsung factor. I changed automated views for unintentional views in

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probably just pick up where you left off! Please consider it and thanks for the effort. Regards,

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making a spoken audio version of the article. I would thoroughly enjoy hearing it! All the best,

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was used as a model for others in East Africa as far back as the 5th century BC, the kingdom of

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various disastrous earthquakes that brought down Hellenistic era monuments like the Pharos

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She was mentioned in the Bible. I can't find any mention of the Bible in this wiki page.

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were the only literate Arabic speaking peoples at the time considering the kingdom of the

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for details. A direct ancestor of Classical Arabic which uses the characteristic article

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if appropriate. The lede already says she is Cleopatra VII. Article names are based on

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https://commons.wikimedia.org/User:Merlin-UK/Egypt#/media/File:SFEC-DENDERA-2010-085.JPG

2575: 2560:. I'm not sure that I understand what you think the article should include after that. 1758: 1484: 1312: 1278: 1259: 1255: 1145: 1063: 1017: 974: 967: 922: 873: 812: 214: 199: 172: 157: 131: 110: 94: 47: 17: 694: 600: 136:

Hello again. Are you still interested in doing a spoken article version of Cleopatra?

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The subject says it all. Further it should also be mentioned in the box on the right.

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In the first or second sentence should be mentioned that she was a pharaoh of Egypt

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by Skeat, who attributes the two-day gap to the newly-introduced Julian calendar (

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It's fixed when I go on the website but it still shows that sentence on the app.

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again, after my initial change was rudely reverted without proper justification.

1483:" is mentioned multiple times in the body of the article, it is not found in the 1124:

began upon the King's death in 51 BC, but a falling-out between them led to open

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I pointed to? It explains the matter in detail and points to scholarly sources.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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habitually associate with (someone), typically with the disapproval of others.

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If Cleopatra had written about language as a sideline to being a monarch—like

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Fix a typo: Change “Assassinations of Caesar” to “Assassination of Caesar”

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What about the part on Caesarion? The first sentence says she was the last

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Is the burial location of Cleopatra VII known? If so, it should be added.

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Not sure if this is the best place to ask this, please remove as needed.

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Seems you're new here and do not know much about Cleopatra scholarship.

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The last paragraph of this section starts with the following sentences:

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Someone's manipulating the views. It always has between 140k-160k views.

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propaganda of Octavian magnified her importance to an excessive degree.

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needs updating, apparently it's been like this for almost a full day

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Has been for years. Would love to know why if anyone has an insight.

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I know this isn't a real encyclopedia, but that's just insane.

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That means that both the child and the affair are suddenly there.

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LOL. That "Bust of Cleopatra" is already used in the sub-article "

3113:

I'm going to try to change the presumed mother of Cleopatra from

2641:, Cleopatra has registered large amounts of "automated views". -- 1436: 2104:

Is there some sort of historical discovery that has been found?

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Why is this article almost ALWAYS in the Knowledge top read???

2376: 1978: 1688: 1507: 770:(69 – 10 or 12 August 30 BC) was the last active ruler of the 617: 544: 25: 3181:

Cleopatra VI Tryphaena (also known as Cleopatra V Tryphaena)

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is that Cleopatra VII is possibly buried near the temple at

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There is some discussion about whether the person known as

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Talk:Cleopatra/Archive 5#Trending article throughout 2021

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Good to know - I wonder how many listen for long though.

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book, but here it is best to use scholarly sources. –

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Original sentence: When he died in 51 BC, the joint

3262:Knowledge:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring 1109:began, but a falling-out between them led to open 2811:Why is this article written in American English? 1577:The title should be changed back to Cleopatra VII 2530:Please discuss about where she riened the most 3177:Additionally, the description in the info-box: 2373:Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2021 1650:Empty request, presumed an experiment, closed. 275: 3493:Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2023 1975:Semi-protected edit request on 16 October 2021 780:(footnote explaining Caesarion's pseudo-reign) 541:Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2020 3653:No, it was like this for less than a minute. 3075:and its numerous omissions and inaccuracies. 3004:Cleopatra was interred at an unknown location 1685:Semi-protected edit request on 21 August 2021 8: 1338:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Bust_of_Cleopatra 1258:, who lived a century before Cleopatra VII. 2458:template. Secondary sources are preferred. 1666:Semi-protected edit request on 24 July 2021 1504:Semi-protected edit request on 2 April 2021 3095:There is a move discussion in progress on 3011:. The recent hypothesis by archaeologists 2869: 2531: 1623: 1582: 1385: 1378:Larger picture of Cleopatra & Cesarion 1226: 1224:http://www.usccb.org/bible/1maccabees10:21 1208: 244: 1645:Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2021 2143:I don't know why you'd bother though... 2045:List of cultural depictions of Cleopatra 2033:Director Charles L. Gaskill's 1912 film 3600:It's all junked up somebody please fix 2598:2603:8080:D700:3328:5DAD:C9E2:9218:7585 2188:2603:9001:6900:969D:3084:F73B:EC64:6E2B 1479:Not a bad suggestion. While the title " 947:Question Re. Narrative Flow in the Lead 905:Responding to T8612's point above, per 764:The 1st paragraph would be as follows: 674: 2919: 2876:2601:249:9301:FF80:BDC1:4233:353D:FF68 2538:2605:8D80:4C0:8E76:6278:5945:D018:804A 1545:2600:1700:4C94:20A0:CA7:4B1C:1FD8:2710 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3293:I've taken a look and reverted them. 2208:2A02:C7D:E83C:E500:3DB6:49C:571B:B543 345:Yes, it's not like the people of the 273:This is about the following sentence 7: 3400:Why us this article always trending? 2043:is noted prominently in the article 1303:, wife of Meleager, or even the two 3150:is specifically about Cleo VI as a 2718:Roman literature and historiography 2230:and elsewhere spoke the universal 24: 2637:thread. But anyway, according to 3549: 3500: 3042:unproven claim per archaeology. 2432: 2380: 2073: 1982: 1773:Trending article throughout 2021 1741: 1692: 1511: 621: 548: 29: 3365:Thanks for the suggestion, but 3193:a different person, and if so, 3146:However, the Knowledge article 2922:? What do you think it is? - 3002:The article does mention that 2633:This should be closer to be a 2100:WHY IS THIS STILL TRENDING?!?! 1970:02:03, 30 September 2021 (UTC) 1951:13:12, 20 September 2021 (UTC) 1: 3693:16:45, 23 February 2024 (UTC) 3218:Changes to lead section prose 2775:2601:640:4000:3170:0:0:0:614B 2742:03:31, 27 December 2022 (UTC) 2734:2601:640:4000:3170:0:0:0:F6D3 2708:03:14, 26 December 2022 (UTC) 2427:21:37, 26 December 2021 (UTC) 2276:00:09, 28 February 2022 (UTC) 2249:18:10, 28 November 2021 (UTC) 2216:11:17, 28 November 2021 (UTC) 2196:19:22, 26 November 2021 (UTC) 2172:12:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC) 2153:02:38, 18 November 2021 (UTC) 1922:04:10, 3 September 2021 (UTC) 1906:23:03, 2 September 2021 (UTC) 1882:16:21, 1 September 2021 (UTC) 1453:20:11, 13 December 2020 (UTC) 527:17:09, 20 February 2020 (UTC) 505:13:22, 17 February 2020 (UTC) 484:01:29, 17 February 2020 (UTC) 458:23:32, 16 February 2020 (UTC) 417:21:25, 16 February 2020 (UTC) 399:01:29, 17 February 2020 (UTC) 378:23:32, 16 February 2020 (UTC) 334:21:22, 16 February 2020 (UTC) 263:20:47, 11 December 2018 (UTC) 166:03:01, 21 February 2019 (UTC) 145:23:07, 20 February 2019 (UTC) 3679:16:37, 25 October 2023 (UTC) 3663:04:13, 25 October 2023 (UTC) 3649:03:22, 25 October 2023 (UTC) 3630:02:03, 25 October 2023 (UTC) 3616:Only One Sentence Available? 3610:21:06, 24 October 2023 (UTC) 3580:07:55, 18 January 2023 (UTC) 3543:07:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC) 3487:20:11, 15 October 2023 (UTC) 3472:17:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC) 2847:14:52, 31 January 2023 (UTC) 2827:13:50, 31 January 2023 (UTC) 2797:06:01, 12 January 2023 (UTC) 2783:04:20, 12 January 2023 (UTC) 2690:05:24, 15 October 2022 (UTC) 2673:04:53, 15 October 2022 (UTC) 2651:00:36, 15 October 2022 (UTC) 2625:07:00, 14 October 2022 (UTC) 2606:15:19, 27 October 2022 (UTC) 2129:17:28, 8 November 2021 (UTC) 2119:Or new tv show more likely! 2114:17:15, 8 November 2021 (UTC) 2094:23:40, 19 October 2021 (UTC) 2064:16:03, 16 October 2021 (UTC) 2024:01:13, 16 October 2021 (UTC) 1617:03:17, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 1597:02:01, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 1561:No edit requested, closing. 1420:02:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC) 1400:02:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC) 613:17:43, 5 February 2020 (UTC) 591:16:04, 5 February 2020 (UTC) 361:, before the development of 355:Ancient South Arabian script 297:02:06, 5 December 2019 (UTC) 125:05:07, 25 October 2018 (UTC) 103:03:12, 24 October 2018 (UTC) 3527:to reactivate your request. 3515:has been answered. Set the 3450:16:18, 9 October 2023 (UTC) 3433:15:12, 9 October 2023 (UTC) 3414:11:18, 9 October 2023 (UTC) 3392:07:20, 1 October 2023 (UTC) 3378:07:02, 1 October 2023 (UTC) 3360:05:39, 1 October 2023 (UTC) 3334:17:14, 25 August 2023 (UTC) 3312:14:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC) 3289:13:53, 25 August 2023 (UTC) 3273:13:50, 25 August 2023 (UTC) 3243:23:40, 24 August 2023 (UTC) 3232:Knowledge:Featured articles 3166:is specially about Cleo VI 3091:Move discussion in progress 2764:21:45, 7 January 2023 (UTC) 2755:, as cited in the article. 2482:11:17, 5 January 2022 (UTC) 2468:01:34, 5 January 2022 (UTC) 2407:to reactivate your request. 2395:has been answered. Set the 2009:to reactivate your request. 1997:has been answered. Set the 1862:13:24, 26 August 2021 (UTC) 1836:10:30, 26 August 2021 (UTC) 1818:11:38, 22 August 2021 (UTC) 1800:04:25, 22 August 2021 (UTC) 1767:18:37, 21 August 2021 (UTC) 1736:18:25, 21 August 2021 (UTC) 1719:to reactivate your request. 1707:has been answered. Set the 1538:to reactivate your request. 1526:has been answered. Set the 1221:) 02:17, 18 June 2020 (UTC) 648:to reactivate your request. 636:has been answered. Set the 575:to reactivate your request. 563:has been answered. Set the 3709: 3085:09:42, 28 April 2023 (UTC) 2983:13:15, 27 April 2023 (UTC) 2958:02:57, 27 April 2023 (UTC) 2944:02:54, 27 April 2023 (UTC) 2907:02:49, 27 April 2023 (UTC) 2884:00:44, 27 April 2023 (UTC) 2514:09:15, 28 March 2022 (UTC) 2497:03:07, 28 March 2022 (UTC) 2359:13:34, 18 March 2022 (UTC) 2341:13:12, 18 March 2022 (UTC) 2327:13:34, 18 March 2022 (UTC) 2255:Affair with Caesar in lead 1638:15:05, 13 April 2021 (UTC) 1496:22:24, 28 March 2021 (UTC) 1472:13:38, 28 March 2021 (UTC) 1078:18:04, 25 April 2020 (UTC) 1057:16:14, 25 April 2020 (UTC) 1032:15:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC) 1011:14:06, 19 April 2020 (UTC) 991:04:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC) 960:03:06, 19 April 2020 (UTC) 228:21:48, 3 August 2019 (UTC) 208:21:41, 3 August 2019 (UTC) 187:22:47, 2 August 2019 (UTC) 3594:09:28, 19 June 2023 (UTC) 3213:00:37, 10 June 2023 (UTC) 3185:is wrong. Cleo VI is not 2854: 2584:01:50, 21 July 2022 (UTC) 2569:01:29, 21 July 2022 (UTC) 2546:00:55, 21 July 2022 (UTC) 2314:22:29, 7 March 2022 (UTC) 2296:00:39, 2 March 2022 (UTC) 2036:Cleopatra, Queen of Egypt 1680:05:08, 24 July 2021 (UTC) 1571:11:10, 2 April 2021 (UTC) 1553:10:39, 2 April 2021 (UTC) 1372:17:46, 29 June 2020 (UTC) 1354:17:08, 29 June 2020 (UTC) 1324:04:47, 18 June 2020 (UTC) 1268:03:37, 18 June 2020 (UTC) 1241:02:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC) 782:She was also a diplomat, 745:21:58, 5 March 2020 (UTC) 715:21:26, 5 March 2020 (UTC) 665:20:29, 5 March 2020 (UTC) 3226:that you are engaged in 3104:08:46, 6 June 2023 (UTC) 3051:23:07, 16 May 2023 (UTC) 3032:23:04, 16 May 2023 (UTC) 3009:Lighthouse of Alexandria 2998:20:10, 16 May 2023 (UTC) 2836:The Emperor of Byzantium 2815:✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ 1195:15:37, 9 June 2020 (UTC) 1181:15:16, 9 June 2020 (UTC) 1160:03:56, 2 June 2020 (UTC) 1139:12:52, 1 June 2020 (UTC) 931:05:26, 30 May 2020 (UTC) 921:I agree with Kekki1978. 917:16:43, 28 May 2020 (UTC) 901:01:12, 23 May 2020 (UTC) 882:01:06, 23 May 2020 (UTC) 864:00:06, 23 May 2020 (UTC) 838:21:00, 22 May 2020 (UTC) 821:20:09, 22 May 2020 (UTC) 806:20:01, 22 May 2020 (UTC) 768:Cleopatra VII Philopator 3073:Encyclopædia Britannica 2920:Not a real Encyclopedia 2558:Donations of Alexandria 1670:Another empty request. 1660:07:32, 9 May 2021 (UTC) 369:by the 1st century AD. 3228:Knowledge:edit warring 3164:Cleopatra VI Tryphaena 3148:Cleopatra VI Tryphaena 3139:is the same person as 3137:Cleopatra VI Tryphaena 3115:Cleopatra VI Tryphaena 2729: 2526:About where she reined 1332:Depiction of Cleopatra 1116:Suggestion: The joint 434:Cleopatra: a biography 353:. For that matter the 280: 3264:about your behavior. 3260:, I have alerted the 3199:Cleopatra V Tryphaena 3154:person and therefore 3141:Cleopatra V Tryphaena 3130:Cleopatra V Tryphaena 3119:Cleopatra V Tryphaena 3039:Fayum mummy portraits 2855:Cleopatra's Parentage 2724: 2460:ScottishFinnishRadish 1563:ScottishFinnishRadish 790:. As a member of the 42:of past discussions. 3168:as a separate person 3162:Because the article 3097:Talk:Ptolemy I Soter 2444:for this alteration 2206:language then greek 1934:Last active Pharoah? 1622:annoyance on Wiki. 1293:Cleopatra of Macedon 1165:Before I respond to 3367:Ptolemy XII Auletes 3109:Mother of Cleopatra 2968:WP:Reliable sources 2454:edit semi-protected 2440:please establish a 2224:Ancient Macedonians 1305:daughters of Danaus 269:Languages she spoke 3376: 3373:Pericles of Athens 3332: 3329:Pericles of Athens 3287: 3284:Pericles of Athens 3271: 3268:Pericles of Athens 3241: 3238:Pericles of Athens 3049: 3046:Pericles of Athens 3030: 3027:Pericles of Athens 2981: 2978:Pericles of Athens 2845: 2842:Pericles of Athens 2795: 2792:Pericles of Athens 2762: 2759:Pericles of Athens 2671: 2668:Pericles of Athens 2567: 2564:Pericles of Athens 2512: 2509:Pericles of Athens 2480: 2477:Pericles of Athens 2357: 2354:Pericles of Athens 2325: 2322:Pericles of Athens 2294: 2291:Pericles of Athens 2247: 2244:Pericles of Athens 2170: 2167:Pericles of Athens 2062: 2059:Pericles of Athens 1968: 1965:Pericles of Athens 1904: 1901:Pericles of Athens 1860: 1857:Pericles of Athens 1816: 1813:Pericles of Athens 1494: 1491:Pericles of Athens 1418: 1415:Pericles of Athens 1370: 1367:Pericles of Athens 1361:Reign of Cleopatra 1322: 1319:Pericles of Athens 1158: 1155:Pericles of Athens 1118:reign of Cleopatra 1103:reign of Cleopatra 1076: 1073:Pericles of Athens 1030: 1027:Pericles of Athens 989: 986:Pericles of Athens 862: 859:Pericles of Athens 743: 740:Pericles of Athens 503: 500:Pericles of Athens 456: 453:Pericles of Athens 376: 373:Pericles of Athens 226: 223:Pericles of Athens 185: 182:Pericles of Athens 143: 140:Pericles of Athens 123: 120:Pericles of Athens 3577: 3531: 3530: 3370: 3326: 3281: 3265: 3235: 3222:This is to alert 3043: 3024: 3013:Kathleen Martinez 2975: 2941: 2886: 2874:comment added by 2839: 2807:American English? 2789: 2756: 2665: 2561: 2548: 2536:comment added by 2506: 2474: 2438:Not done for now: 2411: 2410: 2351: 2319: 2288: 2241: 2164: 2056: 2053:Cleopatra in film 2013: 2012: 1962: 1898: 1854: 1810: 1723: 1722: 1640: 1628:comment added by 1599: 1587:comment added by 1542: 1541: 1488: 1412: 1409:Temple of Dendera 1402: 1390:comment added by 1364: 1316: 1301:Cleopatra Alcyone 1243: 1231:comment added by 1222: 1213:comment added by 1152: 1070: 1024: 983: 856: 792:Ptolemaic dynasty 772:Ptolemaic Kingdom 737: 652: 651: 579: 578: 497: 450: 370: 347:Nabataean Kingdom 289:Sawtoothcoriander 265: 249:comment added by 220: 179: 137: 117: 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3700: 3578: 3574: 3567: 3565: 3557: 3553: 3552: 3522: 3518: 3504: 3503: 3497: 3374: 3330: 3285: 3269: 3239: 3047: 3028: 2979: 2950:Kleopatra I Syra 2942: 2938: 2931: 2929: 2899:Kleopatra I Syra 2843: 2824: 2823: 2817: 2816: 2793: 2770:PericlesofAthens 2760: 2669: 2565: 2510: 2478: 2457: 2436: 2435: 2402: 2398: 2384: 2383: 2377: 2355: 2323: 2310: 2305: 2292: 2272: 2267: 2245: 2201:Macedonian queen 2168: 2083:PericlesofAthens 2077: 2076: 2060: 2004: 2000: 1986: 1985: 1979: 1966: 1902: 1895: 1858: 1814: 1745: 1744: 1714: 1710: 1696: 1695: 1689: 1533: 1529: 1515: 1514: 1508: 1492: 1416: 1368: 1320: 1289:Cleopatra I Syra 1285:Seleucid dynasty 1282: 1253: 1189: 1176: 1172: 1169:PericlesofAthens 1156: 1149: 1134: 1120:and her brother 1105:and her brother 1074: 1067: 1052: 1042: 1039:PericlesofAthens 1028: 1021: 1006: 1001: 998:PericlesofAthens 987: 971: 955: 912: 860: 849: 832: 786:, linguist, and 741: 725: 699:How They Croaked 682: 679: 643: 639: 625: 624: 618: 570: 566: 552: 551: 545: 519:Florian Blaschke 515: 512:PericlesofAthens 501: 494: 491:Florian Blaschke 476:Florian Blaschke 468: 465:PericlesofAthens 454: 427: 424:Florian Blaschke 409:Florian Blaschke 391:Florian Blaschke 388: 385:PericlesofAthens 374: 367:Kingdom of Aksum 344: 341:Florian Blaschke 326:Florian Blaschke 224: 218: 197: 194:PericlesofAthens 183: 176: 155: 152:PericlesofAthens 141: 135: 121: 114: 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3708: 3707: 3703: 3702: 3701: 3699: 3698: 3697: 3618: 3570: 3561: 3559: 3550: 3548: 3520: 3516: 3501: 3495: 3460: 3402: 3372: 3348: 3328: 3283: 3267: 3237: 3220: 3111: 3093: 3045: 3026: 3021:Taposiris Magna 2977: 2964:WP:UNDUE WEIGHT 2934: 2925: 2923: 2891:Duane W. 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Roller 421: 382: 372: 338: 279: 271: 222: 212: 191: 181: 170: 149: 139: 129: 119: 108: 90: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3706: 3704: 3696: 3695: 3681: 3667: 3666: 3665: 3617: 3614: 3613: 3612: 3598: 3597: 3596: 3584:enjoy guys... 3529: 3528: 3505: 3494: 3491: 3490: 3489: 3477:No, it isn't. 3459: 3456: 3455: 3454: 3453: 3452: 3401: 3398: 3397: 3396: 3395: 3394: 3347: 3344: 3343: 3342: 3341: 3340: 3339: 3338: 3337: 3336: 3295:User:Zagreus99 3258:your talk page 3256:. As noted on 3224:User:Zagreus99 3219: 3216: 3195:definitely not 3183: 3182: 3172:definitely not 3160: 3159: 3144: 3133: 3110: 3107: 3092: 3089: 3088: 3087: 3068: 3067: 3066: 3065: 3064: 3063: 3062: 3061: 3060: 3059: 3058: 3057: 3056: 3055: 3054: 3053: 2912: 2911: 2910: 2909: 2866: 2862: 2856: 2853: 2852: 2851: 2850: 2849: 2808: 2805: 2804: 2803: 2802: 2801: 2800: 2799: 2719: 2716: 2715: 2714: 2713: 2712: 2711: 2710: 2692: 2612: 2609: 2593: 2590: 2589: 2588: 2587: 2586: 2527: 2524: 2523: 2522: 2521: 2520: 2519: 2518: 2517: 2516: 2409: 2408: 2385: 2374: 2371: 2370: 2369: 2368: 2367: 2366: 2365: 2364: 2363: 2362: 2361: 2329: 2256: 2253: 2252: 2251: 2202: 2199: 2183: 2180: 2179: 2178: 2177: 2176: 2175: 2174: 2141: 2140: 2139: 2138: 2132: 2131: 2101: 2098: 2097: 2096: 2069: 2067: 2066: 2014: 2011: 2010: 1987: 1976: 1973: 1935: 1932: 1931: 1930: 1929: 1928: 1927: 1926: 1925: 1924: 1869: 1868: 1867: 1866: 1865: 1864: 1841: 1840: 1839: 1838: 1828:Triggerhippie4 1821: 1820: 1786:here (Spanish) 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word 1953: 1952: 1948: 1944: 1940: 1933: 1923: 1919: 1915: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1908: 1907: 1903: 1893: 1888: 1887: 1886: 1885: 1884: 1883: 1879: 1875: 1863: 1859: 1852: 1847: 1846: 1845: 1844: 1843: 1842: 1837: 1833: 1829: 1825: 1824: 1823: 1822: 1819: 1815: 1808: 1804: 1803: 1802: 1801: 1797: 1793: 1789: 1787: 1783: 1778: 1772: 1768: 1764: 1760: 1756: 1755:WP:COMMONNAME 1752: 1748: 1740: 1739: 1738: 1737: 1733: 1729: 1718: 1715:parameter to 1706: 1702: 1698: 1691: 1690: 1684: 1682: 1681: 1677: 1673: 1665: 1661: 1657: 1653: 1649: 1648: 1644: 1639: 1635: 1631: 1630:50.111.63.192 1627: 1620: 1618: 1614: 1610: 1606: 1605:WP:Commonname 1602: 1601: 1600: 1598: 1594: 1590: 1586: 1576: 1572: 1568: 1564: 1560: 1559: 1558: 1554: 1550: 1546: 1537: 1534:parameter to 1525: 1521: 1517: 1510: 1509: 1503: 1497: 1493: 1486: 1482: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1475: 1474: 1473: 1469: 1465: 1457: 1455: 1454: 1450: 1446: 1440: 1438: 1434: 1426:Date of death 1425: 1421: 1417: 1410: 1405: 1404: 1403: 1401: 1397: 1393: 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3509:edit request 3461: 3403: 3384:74.14.11.231 3352:74.14.11.231 3349: 3298: 3278:User:Johnbod 3221: 3203: 3194: 3190: 3186: 3184: 3176: 3171: 3167: 3161: 3155: 3151: 3123: 3112: 3094: 2990:70.22.139.70 2972:WP:Consensus 2936:open channel 2935: 2926: 2870:— Preceding 2810: 2730: 2725: 2721: 2614: 2595: 2553: 2552:Do you mean 2532:— Preceding 2529: 2445: 2437: 2412: 2404: 2389:edit request 2346: 2301: 2263: 2259: 2258: 2204: 2185: 2142: 2106:Turtleshell3 2103: 2078: 2068: 2034: 2027: 2006: 1991:edit request 1956: 1954: 1941: 1937: 1870: 1790: 1779: 1776: 1746: 1724: 1716: 1701:edit request 1669: 1624:— Preceding 1583:— Preceding 1580: 1556: 1535: 1520:edit request 1485:lead section 1464:84.119.60.39 1461: 1441: 1437:the footnote 1433:this article 1429: 1386:— Preceding 1381: 1342: 1335: 1227:— Preceding 1209:— Preceding 1206: 1142: 1130: 1122:Ptolemy XIII 1115: 1107:Ptolemy XIII 1100: 1097: 1094: 1090: 950: 887: 827: 796: 779: 767: 763: 756: 734:User:Þjarkur 706: 698: 693:Did you see 677: 669: 653: 645: 630:edit request 604: 580: 572: 557:edit request 471: 437: 433: 321: 311: 303: 281: 272: 245:— Preceding 242: 91: 78: 43: 37: 3017:Zahi Hawass 2749:Ronald Syme 2682:Apoxyomenus 2657:Apoxyomenus 2643:Apoxyomenus 2592:Family Tree 2237:Doric Greek 2232:Koine Greek 1672:Haploidavey 1652:Haploidavey 1557:You&me 1346:Mbarrett710 979:Berenice IV 443:Berenice IV 36:This is an 3563:FlightTime 3517:|answered= 3346:Her father 3205:MaksVerver 3187:definitely 2927:FlightTime 2895:Werner Huß 2696:WP:POPULAR 2678:Pomegranya 2661:Pomegranya 2639:WP:POPULAR 2631:Pomegranya 2617:Pomegranya 2450:using the 2397:|answered= 2086:I Am Chaos 1999:|answered= 1709:|answered= 1528:|answered= 1299:, such as 753:Occupation 670:References 638:|answered= 565:|answered= 308:Old Arabic 3513:Cleopatra 3438:@Peaceray 2576:A. Parrot 2487:Plutarch 2442:consensus 2393:Cleopatra 2285:Caesarion 2079:Not done: 2039:starring 1995:Cleopatra 1851:Gal Gadot 1807:Gal Gadot 1759:RudolfRed 1747:Not done: 1728:Savoy1956 1705:Cleopatra 1524:Cleopatra 1309:Cleopatra 1279:A. Parrot 1260:A. Parrot 1203:Maccabees 1175:Kekki1978 1146:Kekki1978 1133:Kekki1978 1126:civil war 1111:civil war 1064:Kekki1978 1051:Kekki1978 1018:Kekki1978 1005:Kekki1978 968:Kekki1978 954:Kekki1978 923:A. Parrot 911:Kekki1978 874:A. Parrot 813:Surtsicna 729:Caesarion 634:Cleopatra 561:Cleopatra 447:Caesarion 215:Theayeaye 200:Theayeaye 173:Theayeaye 158:Theayeaye 132:Theayeaye 111:Theayeaye 95:Theayeaye 79:Archive 5 73:Archive 4 68:Archive 3 60:Archive 1 3440:thanks! 3425:Peaceray 3382:Got it! 3191:possibly 3152:separate 3101:RMCD bot 3077:Dimadick 2872:unsigned 2635:WP:FORUM 2534:unsigned 2503:Pericles 2489:Braw 420 2419:Braw 420 2304:PizzaMan 2266:PizzaMan 1626:unsigned 1585:unsigned 1388:unsigned 1287:such as 1229:unsigned 1211:unsigned 870:Claudius 708:Thjarkur 695:the note 606:Thjarkur 351:Sabaeans 259:contribs 247:unsigned 3655:Johnbod 3479:Johnbod 3318:Johnbod 3304:Johnbod 3250:em dash 3170:who is 2700:Maxaxa 2554:reigned 2228:Macedon 2121:Johnbod 1958:pharaoh 1914:Johnbod 1603:As per 1481:pharaoh 1445:Avilich 1307:named " 251:Jiowkdl 39:archive 3535:Elbuod 3458:Burial 3442:Lxsdms 3406:Lxsdms 3323:WP:MOS 3254:WP:MOS 2822:(talk) 2447:before 1943:JeffUK 1792:Dmildy 1192:(talk) 893:Avis11 888:active 835:(talk) 798:Avis11 712:(talk) 610:(talk) 601:a note 322:Alilát 318:Al-Lat 278:Greek. 3521:|ans= 3507:This 3297:your 2861:What? 2401:|ans= 2387:This 2145:Nswix 2003:|ans= 1989:This 1713:|ans= 1699:This 1532:|ans= 1518:This 1188:T8612 846:T8612 831:T8612 776:Egypt 701:is a 642:|ans= 628:This 569:|ans= 555:This 363:Ge'ez 302:Even 16:< 3689:talk 3675:talk 3659:talk 3645:talk 3626:talk 3606:talk 3590:talk 3555:Done 3539:talk 3483:talk 3468:talk 3446:talk 3429:talk 3410:talk 3388:talk 3356:talk 3308:talk 3299:only 3209:talk 3081:talk 3015:and 2994:talk 2954:talk 2903:talk 2880:talk 2779:talk 2738:talk 2704:talk 2686:talk 2647:talk 2621:talk 2602:talk 2580:talk 2542:talk 2493:talk 2464:talk 2423:talk 2337:talk 2212:talk 2192:talk 2182:Math 2149:talk 2125:talk 2110:talk 2090:talk 2020:talk 1947:talk 1918:talk 1878:talk 1832:talk 1796:talk 1784:and 1782:here 1763:talk 1732:talk 1676:talk 1656:talk 1634:talk 1613:talk 1593:talk 1567:talk 1549:talk 1468:talk 1449:talk 1396:talk 1350:talk 1264:talk 1237:talk 1219:talk 1178:talk 1136:talk 1054:talk 1046:here 1008:talk 957:talk 927:talk 914:talk 897:talk 878:talk 817:talk 802:talk 794:... 661:talk 603:. – 587:talk 523:talk 480:talk 413:talk 395:talk 359:D'mt 330:talk 293:talk 255:talk 204:talk 162:talk 99:talk 3519:or 3511:to 3156:not 3117:to 2399:or 2391:to 2333:Sca 2309:♨♨♨ 2271:♨♨♨ 2226:in 2186:Up 2001:or 1993:to 1757:. 1711:or 1703:to 1530:or 1522:to 1311:". 774:of 640:or 632:to 567:or 559:to 432:'s 320:as 313:al- 3691:) 3677:) 3661:) 3647:) 3628:) 3608:) 3592:) 3558:- 3541:) 3525:no 3485:) 3470:) 3448:) 3431:) 3423:. 3412:) 3390:) 3358:) 3310:) 3211:) 3083:) 2996:) 2974:. 2956:) 2905:) 2882:) 2781:) 2740:) 2706:) 2698:. 2688:) 2649:) 2623:) 2604:) 2582:) 2544:) 2495:) 2466:) 2456:}} 2452:{{ 2425:) 2405:no 2339:) 2287:. 2214:) 2194:) 2151:) 2127:) 2112:) 2092:) 2022:) 2007:no 1949:) 1920:) 1880:) 1834:) 1798:) 1765:) 1734:) 1717:no 1678:) 1658:) 1636:) 1615:) 1595:) 1569:) 1551:) 1536:no 1470:) 1451:) 1398:) 1352:) 1266:) 1239:) 1131:– 1128:. 1113:. 929:) 899:) 880:) 819:) 804:) 778:. 663:) 646:no 589:) 573:no 525:) 482:) 472:if 415:) 397:) 332:) 304:if 295:) 287:. 261:) 257:• 206:) 164:) 101:) 64:← 3687:( 3673:( 3657:( 3643:( 3635:@ 3624:( 3604:( 3588:( 3576:) 3568:( 3537:( 3481:( 3466:( 3444:( 3427:( 3408:( 3386:( 3354:( 3316:@ 3306:( 3207:( 3079:( 2992:( 2952:( 2940:) 2932:( 2901:( 2878:( 2834:@ 2777:( 2768:@ 2736:( 2702:( 2684:( 2659:@ 2655:@ 2645:( 2619:( 2600:( 2578:( 2540:( 2491:( 2462:( 2421:( 2335:( 2210:( 2190:( 2147:( 2123:( 2108:( 2088:( 2018:( 1945:( 1916:( 1894:: 1890:@ 1876:( 1830:( 1794:( 1761:( 1730:( 1674:( 1654:( 1632:( 1611:( 1591:( 1565:( 1547:( 1466:( 1447:( 1394:( 1348:( 1281:: 1277:@ 1262:( 1252:: 1248:@ 1235:( 1217:( 1171:: 1167:@ 1148:: 1144:@ 1066:: 1062:@ 1041:: 1037:@ 1020:: 1016:@ 1000:: 996:@ 970:: 966:@ 925:( 895:( 876:( 848:: 844:@ 815:( 800:( 724:: 720:@ 691: 659:( 597: 585:( 521:( 514:: 510:@ 493:: 489:@ 478:( 467:: 463:@ 426:: 422:@ 411:( 393:( 387:: 383:@ 343:: 339:@ 328:( 291:( 253:( 217:: 213:@ 202:( 196:: 192:@ 175:: 171:@ 160:( 154:: 150:@ 134:: 130:@ 113:: 109:@ 97:( 50:.

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