1357:, I'm not going to go out of my way to be nice to you. Clearly you couldn't find more examples, or you would have kept that tense tag on there, wouldn't you? I hate cite templates, I am the main contributor to this article and will continue to edit it long after you've gone off to harrass more users, so I see no reason why I shouldn't insist, as I did, that the references be laid out as I originally wrote them. Can I get on with editing now, instead of wasting my time finding images to suit your tastes?
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being a sociopath (to respect whomever chose to write that) without the conclusion. My reading suggests that that the character could just as easily be manifesting adolescent behavior consistant with pre-adult frontal lobe developement; not at all uncommon. Given the range of possible interpretations of the behavior, I thought a more inclusive description was more appropriate.
1334:"Really? 'your reverts are disruptive' 'you have a serious ego problem' 'better than the junk you're inserting' seems fairly hostile" - They are replies to your belligerency, they are civil and factual. "I am fed up that I have had to spend half an hour acquiring this screen cap" - I'd of happily done it, that is... if it's so difficult. "Or how you added a tense tag because
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Really? "your reverts are disruptive" "you have a serious ego problem" "better than the junk you're inserting" seems fairly hostile. I am fed up that I have had to spend half an hour acquiring this screen cap, which looks no damn different from the one I originally wanted, in order to get a suitable
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this article as "being a dick", this is what happens when you put a lot of effort into an article and do not wish others to change it... except this is a wiki. Fundamentally I believe I have been acting in good faith to improve this article, perhaps my actions have not been the best to get my point
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I edited the description of the character of Andrew as a sociopath because after watching every portrayal of the character I didn't see any strong evidence of the characterization. I replaced it with the word "troubled" because it is sufficiently vague to encompass the possiblity of the character
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I know about quotes, but several articles (especially
Desperate Housewives ones) have quote sections anyway. And I understand your point of view, and you can still push the revert button if you want, but I think that it was too different from other Desperate articles so I made it fit in. I'm truly
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Your edit warring managed to get the page protected! From what I've seen the pair of you (Matthew/Dev) are WAY too intelligent and experienced here to have gotten yourselves into this dispute in the first place, and you knew this would happen if you continued to revert each other's decision. As a
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outweigh significantly his out of world coverage. I fail to see why this is a problem. The policy referred to by the original tagger does not apply to fictional characters but published works, and in any case, I have supplied as much analysis without going OR as possible. When I first nominated
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Pots, kettles, images whirls, problem solved - so it seems. Might I suggest that you both leave it here? No need for everyone to keep on snarling. As an aside, how do you manage to have an edit war over an FA - the whole point of which should be that there's nothing to edit war over? On second
1541:, an article of another fictional character. As you can see, there is a strong amount of real-world context about the character, and there is stronger brevity of in-universe content. Statuses and discussions are often revisited on Knowledge, and the same goes for articles of FA status. —
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Please feel free to add items to this list, but do not remove any. If you disagree with an item, please add your objection to the opposite side of its list, thanks. For example, if an image lists a pro as "is a pose," and you disagree, you could add a "con" that says, "Is not a
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Bignole is right. There is an imbalance of in-universe and out-of-universe content. It's acceptable that the character has been noted as one of the few gay teen TV characters, but that does not entitle the article to go into such an extensive plot summary of the character, per
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I request a source that the "promotional" (still no source for that.. btw) image is of Andrew Van De Kamp. I do not believe it is: a) It's apparently not a character image with no verifiable source, b) it's a pose and c) the show has never showed him in that environment.
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I just wanted to say I have reduced the summary because it was beginning to get too long and less and less clear. However I added a quote section and left the critical receptions points as they wear. Feel free to help with the quote section or anything else.
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This character is a fictional creation. He is not incredibly iconic, although he is one the few gay teens on television. Few media have mentioned him, though enough have that he is indisputably notable. It would thus follow that his inworld biography
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Why is this article so long? Not even the housewives have such lenghty summaries. I love Andrew but this needs to be cut considerably. It also needs to be formatted like the rest of the character bios, agreed? We need some uniformity in here.
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1019:. Andrewvandecamp.jpg is also at IfD, it appears the consensus there is to keep the jpg image, more so than the discussion for the PNG. The end result clearly shows support for the jpg, but I shan't rub it in anyone's face. :-).
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Done. Note that the image
Matthew proposes is no longer an accurate image of Andrew, whereas mine is. But hey, what does accuracy matter when you have petty comments to hand, eh Matthew? Does this meet your image requirements?
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Why is andrew described as a gay character when in the show he is bisexual? eg. in he show he says he sometimes likes one sometimes the other. I was going to just change it but I thought it might have been discussed before.
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image on this article to which your main contribution has been to try and derail its FAC. Or have you forgotten how you tried to fail it because I wouldn't change every reference to cite episode templates? Or how you added a
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The image is well over a year old, and given that Andrew has in that time has a haircut, grown stubble and dresses in leather, the above image is an accurate a depiction of Andrew Van De Kamp as an image of Barney
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Actually, reading the season 1 image IfD it reads like it was kept under fair use... which of course no longer counts now I have saveed the other image (which isn't a png anymore, btw), so it should be deleted.
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noob in comparison, may I suggest you do not do anything until you can come to an indisputable conclusion? That just seems to make sense to me, and will avoid embarrassment. *hands out cookies*
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He stated that way back in Season 2. In Season 4 Bree referred to him as a "happy homosexual" and he didn't correct her at all. Presumably he was just taking a bi-stop on the way to gaytown.
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Right, I want to get some serious work done on this article, I need to know, what tense should it be in? The past, or the present historic? At the moment it's a dreadful mixture of both.
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Not to mention, as this article notes, he self-identifies as gay, even when he made that statement about going both ways. And this show always refers to his sexual orientation as gay.
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Season 2 certainly doesn't, and there needs to be consistency in tenses. However, to cut it down simply so it looks like the other DH articles is a very bad reason for editing a page.
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words" - I could point out plenty more examples, if you so wish. "I wouldn't change every reference to cite episode templates" - I offered to do it, but you clearly believe you
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Andrew for FAC I cut down the plot as much as one reasonably posisble without losing context, and it passed on the basis. I don't see why it has magically become too long now.
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Ok, the general view from the peer review is that my version is better but needs to be trimmed down. I get that, will do so, and I hope you will not be upset by my revert.
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Just because the other articles are like that doesn't make it right. :) I was going to peer review anyway, so I guess I'll ask which is better and get some more feedback.
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No, certainly not agreed. Just because the other articles are short does not mean that Andrew also has to be so. An article needs to be comprehensive as well as concise.
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To be honest, I don;t much care about the out of date image, it would be fine with me if not for the fact that we have a much better, much more up to date one to hand.
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across - irrefutably nor have your own. Frankly this article is very good, and I was just trying to make it better. I'll take
Moreschi's advice and leave it at this.
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For what it's worth, whilst I do see good argument for the .png to be used, I have to say the more obvious choice from the consensus/discussion is to keep the .jpg.
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The above image looks very good to me, I give it a thumbs up. Addendum: Please stop the belligerent tone, I do not believe I have shown you any such hostility.
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Yes. And also, do you remmeber when he said "There's a reason my mum threw me out on the streets. You don;t want to meet bad Andrew." Seems fairly sociopathic.
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also shows that a similar image from the same shoot is clearly meant to be Andrew, and all the other images are also labelled with their character names.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20061010214508/http://www.canada.com:80/topics/entertainment/story.html?id=fdfbd8b1-fe7b-46d6-b2d0-ef67a0a2e166&k=54471
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https://web.archive.org/web/20061010214508/http://www.canada.com:80/topics/entertainment/story.html?id=fdfbd8b1-fe7b-46d6-b2d0-ef67a0a2e166&k=54471
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1381:"perhaps my actions have not been the best to get my point across - irrefutably nor have your own." Let us both bear that in mind next time we meet.
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For the record, I hate all the DH quotations. It's a wiki, not a personal website; the choice of quote will always have an opinionated slant to it.~
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I'd be more than happy to take a screen capture from an episode if that's acceptable, would be perfect to me as it would be an in-character image.
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Why did my family section get removed? I spent ages going through every
Desperate Housewives character with their own profile doing that section.
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The image is an accurate representation of what Andrew van De Kamp currently looks like. Anyone who has seen a recent episode of DH knows this.
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Um, if this article is a FA, shouldn't there be a little bronze star on the top right corner of the article? :-) And congrats for getting FA!
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Yeah but its in at the side and it focusses alot on non blood family as well. Just though i'd do a part focussing on bilogical family. :P
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Stepping in as an uninvolved editor... There appears to be an edit war going on about which image to use in the infobox. I have restored
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070225200607/http://www.insidesocal.com:80/outinhollywood/2007/02/andrew_van_de_camp_stepford_so.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070309121257/http://www.insidesocal.com:80/outinhollywood/2006/09/marc_cherry_andrew_will_return.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070927213400/http://www.expressgaynews.com/blog/index.cfm?type=blog&start=5/3/06&end=5/10/06
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Uh, there are ten people in that infobox and eight of them are related to Andrew by blood. Really, there's no need to repeat it.
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Matthew's claim that there are no pros to the image is pure lies. Please read the ifd for an accurate idea of the arguments.
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appears to be a Keep. If it is desired to use a different image, please gain consensus here on the talkpage first, thanks. --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090730033827/http://tvwatch.people.com/2009/07/28/shawn-pyfrom-leaving-desperate-housewives/
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Andrewvandekamp.PNG was deleted as a result of the consensus at the IfD, Devon has now nominated it for deletion review:
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For the sake of everyone else just coming to this, I have outlined the pros and cons from my point of view as well.
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410:. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090405101131/http://www.afterelton.com:80/archive/elton/TV/2005/2/housewives.html
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This is not comprehensive, it's meandering. It doesn't make any sense and doesn't tell his story well at all.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20061023072128/http://www.parentstv.org:80/PTC/publications/bw/2006/0519worst.asp
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Sorry, I'm a bit confused. Could each of you please state which image exactly that you're talking about? --
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Just to help me understand, would someone be kind enough to summarize the pro's and con's of each image? --
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http://www.canada.com/topics/entertainment/story.html?id=fdfbd8b1-fe7b-46d6-b2d0-ef67a0a2e166&k=54471
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http://www.canada.com/topics/entertainment/story.html?id=fdfbd8b1-fe7b-46d6-b2d0-ef67a0a2e166&k=54471
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http://www.canada.com/topics/entertainment/story.html?id=fdfbd8b1-fe7b-46d6-b2d0-ef67a0a2e166&k=54471
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560:
Please reconsider - I spent seven hours writing that. Also, quotes belong on
Wikiquote, not Knowledge.
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on
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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for which is the better photo (or if a third alternative should be obtained as a compromise)...
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demonstrated that he looks absolutely nothing like Andrew when he is not filming. Additionally,
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http://www.expressgaynews.com/blog/index.cfm?type=blog&start=5%2F3%2F06&end=5%2F10%2F06
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070425123206/http://www.afterelton.com/people/2007/4/16/glaaddish
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words was in the wrong tense? You have your image, stop pretending and go do something useful.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070311015554/http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/1/desperate2.html
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http://www.expressgaynews.com/blog/index.cfm?type=blog&start=5/3/06&end=5/10/06
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http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/2007/02/andrew_van_de_camp_stepford_so.html
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http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/2006/09/marc_cherry_andrew_will_return.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20061010011019/http://www.sgn.org/sgnnews34_09/page9.cfm
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Sorry, but there are plenty of policies and guidelines that disagree with you.
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Knowledge:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2007_March_26#Image:Andrewvandekamp.PNG
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2060:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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http://tvwatch.people.com/2009/07/28/shawn-pyfrom-leaving-desperate-housewives
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this article. Ad hominem/argumentum ad igornatiam attacks are poor form.
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Well, you would quote especially powerful parts of a book, wouldn't you?
228:, a collaborative effort to develop and improve Knowledge articles about
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Policy is that when writing about fiction, everything is present tense.~
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photos perhaps a recent screencap of Andrew would be the best option.
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Given the discussions above I have replaced the infobox picture with
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I've requested unprotection as you seem to have settled the dispute.
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Drivel. We shall wait for the IfD to decide on the identical image.
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The image is not a screenshot, it is as "posed" as the below image.
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Requires replacing with an episode capture to be correctly licensed
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http://www.afterelton.com/archive/elton/TV/2005/2/housewives.html
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http://www.parentstv.org/ptc/publications/bw/2006/0519worst.asp
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Yeah, I just hadn't got around to adding it. And thankyou. :D
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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The image is clearly intended to be Andrew Van De Kamp, his
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
1367:(after edit conflict) You are interpreting my attempts to
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Knowledge:Featured article candidates/Andrew Van De Kamp
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Well one of them needs to be deleted, once there is a
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that Andrew got married with Alex? In which episode?
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http://www.afterelton.com/people/2007/4/16/glaaddish
341:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
2064:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1954:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/1/desperate2.html
1808:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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Background is
Wisteria Lane (primary setting of DH)
943:. You've stumbled in on a waiting game, basically.
1900:http://www.gay.com/entertainment/news/?sernum=1016
875:the image that appears to be the consensus version
2177:C-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings
780:says that when talking about fiction, everything
2162:Unknown-importance Desperate Housewives articles
1495:(Have a nice day!) 21:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
236:. To improve this article, please refer to the
2050:This message was posted before February 2018.
1940:This message was posted before February 2018.
1794:This message was posted before February 2018.
700:Didn't Marc Cherry describe him a sociopath?~
8:
784:(although it gives examples of exceptions).~
1462:and deleted the other two fair use images.
2020:I have just modified one external link on
1651:Now I know. Season 7 episode 17. Gracias.
881:. It was nominated for deletion, but the
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355:Knowledge:WikiProject Fictional characters
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2187:WikiProject Fictional characters articles
2137:Old requests for LGBT studies peer review
1874:I have just modified 4 external links on
1706:http://www.sgn.org/sgnnews34_09/page9.cfm
1674:I have just modified 8 external links on
1222:In fact given the sensible objections to
1143:Has a background never seen in an episode
796:Yeah, I found it. Ugh. I'll get on that.
358:Template:WikiProject Fictional characters
2167:Desperate Housewives task force articles
1460:Image:Andrew Van De Kamp Screenshot.JPG
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2157:B-Class Desperate Housewives articles
1783:to let others know (documentation at
816:Why? It's in the inofbox at the top.
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2182:C-Class fictional character articles
335:This article is within the scope of
222:This article is within the scope of
291:the Desperate Housewives task force
38:It is of interest to the following
2192:Knowledge former featured articles
2152:Low-importance television articles
377:project-independent quality rating
125:Knowledge:WikiProject LGBT studies
14:
2142:WikiProject LGBT studies articles
2024:. Please take a moment to review
1878:. Please take a moment to review
1678:. Please take a moment to review
571:sorry if I offended by doing so.
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1930:Corrected formatting/usage for
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1537:. I would suggest looking at
1:
1661:21:20, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
1646:20:17, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
1427:Lol, you'd be amazed at what
1264:150px|thumb|left|A screenshot
685:22:21, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
674:20:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
664:10:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
651:09:22, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
349:and see a list of open tasks.
288:This article is supported by
2197:Old requests for peer review
1862:09:42, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
982:As requested they're below.
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609:21:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
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361:fictional character articles
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1417:thoughts, don't tell me :)
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2081:(last update: 5 June 2024)
2017:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1971:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1871:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1825:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1671:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1601:01:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
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1576:17:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
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272:project's importance scale
2118:20:35, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
1621:13:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
1101:Image:Andrewvandekamp.jpg
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1867:External links modified
1667:External links modified
536:Former featured article
524:Featured article review
486:WikiProject peer review
467:WikiProject peer review
408:former featured article
149:This article has had a
1632:When it was mention...
1128:this downloads section
412:the nomination archive
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28:This article is rated
2132:B-Class LGBT articles
1429:people can fight over
637:comment was added by
548:Summed up the summary
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240:for the type of work.
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115:or contribute to the
2062:regular verification
1952:regular verification
1806:regular verification
352:Fictional characters
343:fictional characters
315:Fictional characters
185:Desperate Housewives
2052:After February 2018
1942:After February 2018
1796:After February 2018
1775:parameter below to
1585:(Have a nice day!)
1568:CorvidaeCorvusCorax
1499:(Have a nice day!)
1435:(Have a nice day!)
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800:(Have a nice day!)
765:(Have a nice day!)
744:(Have a nice day!)
733:(Have a nice day!)
715:(Have a nice day!)
683:(Have a nice day!)
662:(Have a nice day!)
618:(Have a nice day!)
593:(Have a nice day!)
583:(Have a nice day!)
564:(Have a nice day!)
252:television articles
234:join the discussion
230:television programs
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2022:Andrew Van de Kamp
1996:InternetArchiveBot
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1876:Andrew Van de Kamp
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1676:Andrew Van de Kamp
1605:bi now gay later
1539:Bernard Quatermass
1303:tense tag because
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1062:Image for Deletion
517:September 22, 2007
423:Article milestones
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1522:(Contact me)
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970:read the IfD
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156:now archived
154:
122:LGBT studies
113:project page
101:
100:
94:LGBTQ portal
59:LGBT studies
40:WikiProjects
1787:Sourcecheck
1607:—Preceding
1111:discussion)
1064:discussion)
448:Peer review
151:peer review
2126:Categories
2113:Report bug
2003:Report bug
1857:Report bug
691:Sociopath?
243:Television
180:Television
117:discussion
2096:this tool
2089:this tool
1986:this tool
1979:this tool
1894:dead link
1840:this tool
1833:this tool
1653:Michu1945
1638:Michu1945
1445:Mentality
1194:consensus
1169:Mentality
1107:(current
1060:(current
671:OnTheCusp
639:OnTheCusp
153:which is
2102:Cheers.—
1992:Cheers.—
1846:Cheers.—
1609:unsigned
1515:BIGNOLE
1419:Moreschi
1072:Non-pose
849:Raystorm
647:contribs
635:unsigned
510:Promoted
491:Reviewed
472:Reviewed
453:Reviewed
2026:my edit
1898:tag to
1880:my edit
1773:checked
1680:my edit
1593:Flyer22
1551:contrib
1535:WP:PLOT
1508:WP:PLOT
1374:Matthew
1369:improve
1344:Matthew
1279:Matthew
1256:Matthew
1092:Rubble.
1021:Matthew
984:Matthew
908:Matthew
529:Demoted
431:Process
318:C‑class
270:on the
30:B-class
1890:Added
1781:failed
1583:Dev920
1497:Dev920
1493:Dev920
1471:scribe
1433:Dev920
1383:Dev920
1359:Dev920
1309:Dev920
1269:Dev920
1246:Dev920
1235:scribe
1205:scribe
1180:Dev920
1150:Dev920
1047:pose."
1031:Dev920
993:Dev920
974:Dev920
945:Dev920
917:Dev920
903:WP:ATT
859:Dev920
831:Dev920
818:Dev920
808:Family
798:Dev920
778:WP:WAF
776:Well,
763:Dev920
742:Dev920
731:Dev920
713:Dev920
681:Dev920
660:Dev920
626:Length
616:Dev920
591:Dev920
581:Dev920
573:Siemgi
562:Dev920
555:Siemgi
434:Result
36:scale.
1488:would
968:Just
877:from
869:Image
787:Zythe
753:Zythe
725:Tense
703:Zythe
605:Zythe
406:is a
109:LGBTQ
1777:true
1657:talk
1642:talk
1617:talk
1597:talk
1572:talk
1561:Gay?
1553:) -
1547:talk
1543:Erik
1481:Plot
1431:...
1355:dick
1224:both
1135:Cons
1114:Pros
1083:Cons
1067:Pros
901:Per
643:talk
428:Date
2070:RfC
2040:to
1960:RfC
1918:to
1908:to
1814:RfC
1791:).
1779:or
1764:to
1754:to
1744:to
1734:to
1724:to
1714:to
1704:to
1694:to
1466:WjB
1340:own
1336:two
1305:two
1230:WjB
1200:WjB
262:Low
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2083:.
2078:}}
2074:{{
1973:.
1968:}}
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958:on
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2098:.
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1988:.
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