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attached to purchasing in global Apache components manufacture (Boeing
Apaches now routinely have parts made by AgustWestland used in them; and transferring those from U.S. subcontractors would not have come free for certain), and those specifically attached to helicopter production. I do prefer using flyaway costs, which is what the government should be charged if they were to order future helicopters (though there are holes in that scenario, as most certainly the government would then bloat them by demanding upgrades at supremely high prices...), and does account for a seperation between sunk cost R&D and running cost production, which there certainly is in the accounting. On another article, the F-20 Tigershark, it had been added that the unit cost of the three prototypes for the cancelled program was $ 400 million, as the project cost had been $ 1.2 billion. This strikes me as supremely wrong, as first it was not cited to a source and was just an application of simple devision by the user, which could be called
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estimated to take 7-8 months to complete and qualify. Reverting to the old design was not an option; required components are no longer in production. DCSOPS had published a distribution plan. The PM-ARM is responsible for the development and fielding of the launchers and is working to correct the problems. The
Hellfire restriction was driven by the new spacer in the motor impacting and damaging the stabilator and potentially the tail rotor. Damage to 19 of 43 Apache Helicopters was detected following Hellfire missile firing during the USAREUR training exercise VICTORY STRIKE in Poland 06-18 October 2000. Damage to AH-64A Helicopter horizontal stabilators was initially attributed to ground debris then later to the Hellfire missile.
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the time but listed in capital account for the business. Similar to what Boeing has done for the 787 where over $ 30 billions has been spent, but listed in a capital account and supposed to be reduced over 1500 planes delivered. Example of actual costs for a whole new development was the $ 40 mill USAF gave to
Northrop for the YF-17 LWF prototypes in 1972. The F-5G/F-20 development began began in 1975 with a new larger rear fuselage with single engine but using most of the tooling from the T-38/F-5. Expensive sections to develop like forward fuselage and wings were largely unchanged and radar/electronics were off the shelf items.
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to the fact that 'flyaway cost' is too ambiguous to have any real meaning. If the programme costs 4.1 billion then the real per helicopter price is 61 million as far as any reasonable person might conclude but I appreciate it is a question of definition. I suppose the total programme cost is at least given.
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Thanks for your thoughts Kyteto. I agree it is nuanced. As for the F-20, if the programme cost $ 1.2 billion and only 3 aircraft were built, then viewed alone you could try and make the case that each airplane was $ 400 million but I take your point. No doubt much of that programme's R&D was used
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OK thanks. It seems that the 'flyaway' cost can actually have several different interpretations and so is actually a rather misleading figure. Combine that with the fact that it is often used without R&D taken into account to make the unit price appear cheaper for political reasons and it adds up
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Recently a unit cost per helicopter of 35 million GBP was added to the article in the infobox. Although there is a source given, I have seen many other sources which quote a figure nearer to 60 million. Also simple arithmetic shows that the unit cost must be higher. The programme cost was 4.1 billion
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F-20 didnt cost $ 1.2 bill for 3 planes modified from the F-5 design. That was the total program cost accumulated over the entire T-38/F-5/F-20 development. US accounting rules allow that to be done that way but it must be written off when that entire program is closed down. The money is spent at
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When the Apache was first being tested in
British service they found issues when firing missiles using solid rocket fuel as they would on occasion throw debris into the tail rotor which had potentially catostrophic results. I don't know the exact details and I don't have a source (nor can I find one
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It was great to get within 5 feet of one for a change - and to see those 30mm exploding rounds, not something I would like to be on the receiving end of thats for sure. It must be pretty stable - the area they had to land it in was only about 120x120ft square and had three-storey buildings on three
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Average unit costs are always questionable, especially when you consider there's a manufacturer profit margin always hanging in there. But there are also problems with the method of dividing development costs by number built; we're in a poor position to judge which development costs were fixed, or
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This sentence is somewhat confusing as it seems to imply that only the Apache is capable of operating from a ship, which anyone knows is obviously not true. If that's not the message intended to be conveyed, fair enough, but the sentence needs to be reworded to be less confusing as that's exactly
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In early 2001 the Apache community was operating under a shortage of M299 launchers and a
Hellfire missile restriction. The M299 launchers, under contract to Boeing St. Charles, suffered a failure in recent testing and had been deemed unsafe. The power supply card must be redesigned, which was
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the engines from rolls royce (RTM322) have had to be de-tuned by 20% power as the existing AH transmission is not capable of handling all the power. Consequently the main rotor gearbox needs to be changed at 750 flying hours, as opposed to 1000 flying hours on the yank model A and D AH
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Could be the dark dome and panel but the other bit just looks a little strange - I don't know of any ECM system that uses speakers like those out of a home stereo and the white one looks almost exactly like a ÂŁ10 speaker under white plastic lol! Maybe we bought one from
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It is indeed the MoD's designation. The "Apache AH Mk. 1" or "AH1". WAH-64 is just the type name. For example with the
Hercules, while its "name" (actually the US designation) is C-130, it is designated Hercules C1/C3/C4/C5 in RAF service (depending on variant).
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I added the dubious tag to the cited sentence - "Media speculation suggested that the speed on trialling and establishing an Apache maritime presence is due to the withdrawal of the
British Aerospace Harrier II, as a stopgap replacement." Cite:
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I've taken the liberty to remove this claim as there might be a precedent. Seems to be an error on the part of the original source and the hoopla that surrounded that event. A good dicussion on that event can be found
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That doesn't look like a new problem. Chances are that's been cleared up by now in some manner. Unless it was a long running problem, I don't think it is notable/significant and should not be added. -
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The wording is simply trying to say the
British Apache helicopters are the only Apaches that have been operated from ships. That Lead wording has been adjusted some to better get this point across. -
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The
Apaches were delivered with folding rotors to be able to operate off ships with trials already conducted years ago. So how was Libya a hurried operation because of the lack of carrier aircraft?
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Brimstone is an autonomous anti armour missile based on
Hellfire but actually having very little commonality and designed for launch from high speed aircraft. The Apache cannot fire this weapon
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This Helicopter is a cut above the American counterpart; Its speed is quicker, has more arnament and its power output is higher due to its superior Rolls-Royce built engines.
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Fair enough, if I recall correctly it was fixed, and although not very long running (a few months) did cause a loss of a few craft. It was in the UK media for some time.
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The white piece is the Left Forward MW Sensor. The other bit is the Left Forward RWR Quadrant Receiver. There is a wonderful cutaway diagram in Ed Macy's book 'Apache'
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I seem to recall reading in either AirForces Monthly or Air International that Kamov actually proposed - although perhaps not with a 100% degree of officialness? - the
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I took this little pic and wondered if anyone knows what that speaker lookalike and the object next to it are in the top left corner ?
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An average unit cost like that is essentially redundant to the program cost listed. The unit cost figure listed is probably a
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I've added it to the intro. I wasn't really sure where to add it, if you would prefer something else feel free to change it.
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Your loadspeaker bit appears to be part of the Helicopter Integrated Defensive Aids Suite (HIDAS). For a better image see
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Ah cool - thx for that - I was starting to think it might be some strange "Apocalypse Now" sound system lmao.
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be true, but you can't just claim that. You have to have reputable sources, otherwise it is considered
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on google) but I think if anyone recalls information about this and the specifics. Ooh actually:
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GBP and there are 67 units. So (4.1x10^9/67)= 61 million GBP. Someone may like to change this.
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Reference number 4 links to a server vendor site, not an article on transmission development.
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I put that in its own sentence at the end of the lead. Edit that if I messed up something. -
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elsewhere subsequently anyway. So the cost for government re-orders seems as good as any.
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to the British Army as an Apache alternative. Anyone else remember anything about this? -
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Thanks. I didn't see that explained in the article. Would adding a sentence like this:
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I suspect the "loudpspeaker" bit is optical and the other domes are probably radar.
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I don't know where to add this in though, so many an editor could do it for me? (
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WAH-64 is designiated "Apache AH Mk. 1" or "AH1" by the UK's Ministry of Defence.
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This is believed to be the first time the Apache has been used in such a manner.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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It is from a Longbow Apache from the British Army ZJ202 - but unknown type
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http://edsaircraft.co.uk/Models/Articles-W/WAH-64D/1/WAH-64D_031.JPG
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ah-64.htm
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So.., the British Army buys a 'copter with the designation "
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The picture is not accurated, it doesn't display the FCR.
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363:02:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
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225:19:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
82:21:11, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
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735:21:30, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
496:Electronic countermeasures
184:14:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
132:01:28, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
18:Talk:AgustaWestland Apache
812:08:00, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
706:18:44, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
689:11:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
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