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articles in those two cites do have a promotional tone, they conform to wiki standards of verifiability, and are credible sources. I don't know if you are being too harsh, but I do believe that the article is better as it is than with no cites at all. I will implement your recommended changes when I can, or even better some other contributing editor will.
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original Bovet watches are also famous for being one of the first watches to emphasize the beauty of the movements with its skeletonized views and highly decorative movements." while also largely subjective seems to be a claim that might be supported by a source. I'm not sure that I see one in the body text that supports this precise claim, though.
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References - There is nothing "prima facie" wrong with a self-published website. A self-published cite should not be a problem. Its claims are generally supported by other citations (or do not contradict such), and the website has general credibility and evidence of honest research. The author has
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Ok. This process doesn't help the article if it drags on with little change. since only some of my comments and few of the second opinion reviewer comments have been addressed (and it has been 10 days since the second opinion), I'm not going to promote this article. Fix the issues outlined by the
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Yes, thank you for the links. I don't know why I didn't think of checking google books. Unfortunately, the content does not have any useful information, or it is the same information found in other books already cited. I am waiting for a free day to go to the library. Thank you for your offer to
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Suggested changes have been implemented, as far as they are understood. Pictures have been added as illustrations. The citations linked through Google mention the company or its watches by name only, and provide no substantive information. The "Arts of Asia" article looks very useful, but it may
902:. The language is merely descriptive, as these watches are individually hand crafted (or hand painted, engraved, etc.) by artists. The whole paragraph is supported by the source near the end of the paragraph. It would have been too repetitive to add that same footnote after every single clause.
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Needs work. e.g. "When the company began to produce watches again in the 1990's it was a very unique style of watch which incorporated various elements of the pocket watch form in its construction, such as at the lugs, and won awards after its introduction in 1997." is both a run-on sentence and
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It is truly a challenge to find any information on this watch maker. I have been to all the libraries and have done thorough research. The only more that could be done would be research at the horological libraries in London or Geneva. I agree with you about citation(s) 33, but even though the
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POV. I gather that the company made some fantastic watches. However we can reserve that judgment for sources. Some of the stuff (exp the one sentence in the lead) isn't necessary. The article can speak to facts that show the craftsmanship of the watches, but we should steer clear of providing
748:
The lead could probably be refactored to be more neutral. Statements like "It currently produces high-end artistic watches with a style that references its history, and is known for its high-quality enameling, engraving, and its eight-day tourbillon." strike me as effusive praise. This: "The
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This is a very informative article on an interesting subject. Context is provided and sources appear (for the ones I checked) to verify the text. The Manual of Style is followed for the most part, with some minor exceptions not listed above. The article needs to be clarified, reworded and
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Citation 33: Sorry. I thought I was clear. That citation is purely promotional. regardless of the independence of the source the nature of the work can come into question. It isn't a huge deal but the article does present a slight POV slant and that cite stuck out at
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References. I didn't say there was anything wrong with using a self published website. My concern was that most of the article is supported by this one source. If less than 1/2 of 1% of wikipedia's articles are good articles, we should probably look for some
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did you check out the two links I posted above? there are a few web-available books on the subject and that scholarly article should be available at a university library. If you can't get access to one, let me know and I'll see if I can't email you a copy.
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Note. I read the talk page discussion of the Bovet watch ad PD claim. The questions raised there are legitimate, but the only real questions (for me) is whether or not the watch ad was produced prior to 1978 and if a copyright claim was filed explicitly.
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POV - The descriptive language is arguably appropriate in this context. The watches produced by this company range in price from USD $ 30,000 to 1.8 million. This same language is found in other articles describing high quality products such as
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no connect whatsoever to editing this article, and it is an independent source. I have contacted the individuals listed as supporting contributors. They are responsive to inquiries and are collector/experts on
European watches.
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Images - Research on source of the ad is ongoing. I have the original photo which includes part of the rest of the publication, which includes article excerpts relating progress of the war in Europe (WWII).
764:
Break up the history section into an early biography of Bovet and
Vaucher, a section on the chinese market, and a section for the post 1864 company history. This will probably clear up a great deal of the
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Image copyright and fair use rationales check out. Editors may want to replace the narrative summaries with templates for PD and FU attribution, but I don't see a problem so long as proper rationale is
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Eliminate some of the speculative claims about the watchmaker and china. These are not original research, as most of the claims appear in the sources, but they don't help the flow of the section.
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Lots of unreliable sources, non-independent sources, and websites of questionable reliability. Good that there are a lot of references, but bad that they are repeated and non-templated. See
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troubling to me as few of the claims made in this article are extremely contentious. The article does, however, rely heavily on one self published website: ten inlince citations resolve to
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Watches section - Not sure to which citation you are pointing... footnote 33? Those citations support the statement and they are well known associations entirely independent of Bovet.
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reordered but it certainly has potential to be a good article. In my opinion, if a substantial portion of the improvements I suggested above get made, this should sail through.
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This history section (and the lead) contain a great deal of "it is said" "it is guessed" and so forth. Eliminate these statements and see if the resulting sentence (e.g. "
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Ensure that this section provides some clue of how the company is important in a larger context. Why is the style of watch unique? How are the movements unique?
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I'm a little confused as I read through the history section. The narrative seems to move from biographical to corporate with little notice. My suggestions:
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The establishment of Bovet in London was because of the ease of shipping the watches to China on frequent
English ships.") and see if the sources support
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Claims in this article are scrupulously cited. Some of the references cited are apparently self published websites or catalogues, but this isn't
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https://web.archive.org/web/20081121222050/http://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/en/passion/in-history/bovet-pioneer-on-the-road-to-china.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20081121222050/http://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/en/passion/in-history/bovet-pioneer-on-the-road-to-china.html
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http://web.archive.org/web/20110707064922/http://www.52watch.com/program/fore/viewArticle.php?pt=YVdROU1UUXdNQ1pzYVc1cmFXUTlNVEk0TWc9PQ==
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https://web.archive.org/20081121222050/http://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/en/passion/in-history/bovet-pioneer-on-the-road-to-china.html
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https://web.archive.org/20081121222050/http://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/en/passion/in-history/bovet-pioneer-on-the-road-to-china.html
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I'm going to change the "on hold" tag to "second opinion" because I would hate for this to be stuck here because I'm being too harsh.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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take a few months before I am able to view it. It appears that all of your suggestions have been addressed. I will re-nominate.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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tags to collapse them for ease of readability. Also, looks like youhave a few books without ISBNs included.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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Thank you for your many useful and detailed suggestions. In addition, I have the following responses:
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claim is purely promotional and should not be used in this fashion in an encyclopedia. suggestions:
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on
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on
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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http://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/en/passion/in-history/bovet-pioneer-on-the-road-to-china.html
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http://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/en/passion/in-history/bovet-pioneer-on-the-road-to-china.html
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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http://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/en/passion/in-history/bovet-pioneer-on-the-road-to-china.html
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http://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/en/passion/in-history/bovet-pioneer-on-the-road-to-china.html
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help. If you happen across it before I am able to implement its content, feel free to send it.
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http://www.52watch.com/program/fore/viewArticle.php?pt=YVdROU1UUXdNQ1pzYVc1cmFXUTlNVEk0TWc9PQ==
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ON HOLD for a week. Hopefully that gives you a good list of additional things to work on.
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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1704:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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awkward--that's just one example. Also, Citations do not follow MoS for dates.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20080707062120/http://www.bovet-fleurier.ch/
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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Images: Yeah, it really was a minor quibble, those are OK in my books.
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Knowledge:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
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two reviewers and this article will do well at GAN.
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384:|Companies}}
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126:Good article
125:
108:
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43:please do so
31:
30:
26:
1559:Sourcecheck
700:transcluded
491:Switzerland
482:Switzerland
438:Switzerland
110:Peer review
1770:Categories
1757:Report bug
1111:verifiable
816:References
37:under the
1740:this tool
1733:this tool
1612:this tool
1605:this tool
1472:this tool
1465:this tool
1307:Pass/Fail
1188:(focused)
719:provided.
694:GA Review
229:Companies
220:companies
176:Companies
1746:Cheers.—
1618:Cheers.—
1516:cbignore
1478:Cheers.—
1378:cbignore
1326:Jclemens
1159:WP:CITET
947:breadth.
765:trouble.
386:template
345:Maintain
319:Copyedit
147:GA-class
115:Reviewed
51:reassess
1650:my edit
1628::Online
1545:checked
1510:my edit
1488::Online
1417:checked
1372:my edit
1346:Protonk
1301:Overall
1072:(prose)
1000:Protonk
966:Protonk
900:Ferrari
852:Protonk
847:Overall
776:Wording
755:History
729:Protonk
666:Watches
657:watches
632:Watches
607:on the
518:on the
400:Answer
332:Infobox
256:on the
74:Process
1553:failed
1524:nobots
1386:nobots
1258:images
1233:stable
1231:It is
1209:policy
1169:It is
1104:It is
1063:It is
1052:review
786:claim.
716:Images
580:Brands
571:brands
543:Brands
382:portal
306:Assess
153:scale.
96:Listed
77:Result
1054:(see
702:from
371:Other
358:Stubs
1549:true
1421:true
1350:talk
1330:talk
1108:and
1056:here
1029:talk
1004:talk
989:talk
970:talk
915:talk
877:talk
856:talk
796:this
784:that
733:talk
71:Date
1714:RfC
1684:to
1674:to
1664:to
1586:RfC
1563:).
1551:or
1536:to
1446:RfC
1408:to
1398:to
1084:MoS
957:me.
820:too
746:POV
599:Low
510:Low
248:Mid
1772::
1727:.
1722:}}
1718:{{
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1309::
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1286::
1278:b
1272::
1264:a
1241::
1235:.
1217::
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1190::
1186:b
1180::
1176:a
1173:.
1149::
1145:OR
1141:c
1135::
1127:b
1121::
1117:a
1114:.
1088::
1080:b
1074::
1070:a
1067:.
1050:GA
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395:}}
391:{{
380:{{
54:it
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159::
56:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
