592:, and know that she has a pronounced interest in the subject of Lutheranism, as she is perfectly entitled to have, and is doing what she can to improve and manage articles related to the subject, for which she should be applauded, not condemned. I am also aware that she is a very active contributor on a number of subjects, and that her own comment above, that the accuser may have come to that conclusion because of his own comparatively narrow interests, is probably accurate. And it is a standard guideline to discuss moving a page or any other such drastic move before doing so, in accord with wikipedia's
572:; nor was I the first to question you about it. Probably no other regular editor besides us three has had a chance to see it yet. Since when does Justas Jonas speak for all English speaking Lutherans? If you can cite someone like the Bishop Mark S. Hanson or Rev. Matthew C. Harrison on this "ease of use" criteria, I'll be more interested. And, before you go around accusing others of stalking, consider, first, the possibility that the common denominator may be that you and I are both Lutheran, and, second, you may feel stalked because you appear to frequent less than 20 different articles.
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mine. There is no Wiki policy requiring any user to get your permission before editing, or to provide his/her credentials to you in order to satisfy whatever list of qualifications you have created in your mind. This is just getting ridiculous. Stop harassing me and stop whining. Edit and be done with it. If you don't like what I've done, revert it. If I don't like that, I'll revert it. Or maybe I won't. Calm down and find something better to do with your time than stalking and harassing me. It's totally creepy!18:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
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nature." The shorter name is to my eyes the more easily recognized one, and, being shorter, makes inserting links to it in other articles easier. Also, there is not to my knowledge any other book called the "Book of
Concord", so the qualification regarding ambiguity does not come into play here. On the basis of the above, I believe that the page would be best named "Book of Concord", as it best meets all of the qualifications quoted above.
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933:, it initially seemed quite redundant and a bit messy to me. There also was not any material in the talk page or the (then broken) archive link. But, I certainly do not feel strongly about the translated section; so, stay it does! Please take a few minutes to read the threads above if you have not already, and please accept my premature editing of the translated section. Kind Regards,
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language editions is very germane, the online edition of the Book of
Concord has the most extensive, free, collection of resources that provide an extensive collection of historical documents, not to mention an entirely free online edition of the whole book. The editor making these cuts gave no valid justification for making them. They have therefore been restored.
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than you are aware of Bill. Of course she is entitled to edit however she wishes, but her problem is that from nearly day one she has persisted in running me down, telling me continually I'm a new user and she is so vastly experienced. Frankly put, the lady , has some serious issues. It's just getting downright creepy.
279:, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Lutheranism on Knowledge. This includes but is not limited to Lutheran churches, Lutheran theology and worship, and biographies of notable Lutherans. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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It provides for
English speaking people in general and English speaking Lutherans in particular the way in which Germans, for whom most of the original language of the Confessions, define them. They have an advantage over us in that they can read the German documents like we would read the newspaper.
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DRbois, you make some good points. It is kind of funny though that Keesie will throw a temper tantrum at my every edit and chew me out about not touching articles without discussing them, but then comes along and does a big chop job on the BOC article, which I actually happen to agree with, but it is
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BadBill, you may not be familiar with precisely what I'm talking about. Keesie has taken to tracking me about on Wiki and has posted conspiracy theory accusations about me on the arbitration boards, without following proper procedures, and without even bothering to inform me. So, there's more to this
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It is more accurate to speak of the
Lutheran confessional writings as giving an exposition of Scripture rather than an explanation. "Exposition" means a "setting forth" while "explanation" has more of the connotation of "talking about something." The Lutheran Confessions do not talk about Scriptural
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This is not a "basic introduction" but a fullblown encyclopedia article, so it is not "clunky"! In fact, your edit makes the article clunky. Besides that, banned editors should not be editing
Knowledge even if they elude detection by changing their IP address as you have time and time again. Luther
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The paragraph with footnote three overstates the position of the Book of
Concord. The paragraph reflects a Lutheran perspective/opinion. Other Christian traditions such as Baptist would disagree with matters such as Baptism, and Catholics disagree in many matters including Consubstantiation for the
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is the fact that you are obsessing over my every edit and keep tossing up nutso accusations on the Admin boards. You seem to think that you need to be the Mother Hen over my edits and my participation on
Knowledge and it is truly weird. Just cut it out, ok. Go about your business and I'll go about
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The material that has recently been cut out of the article on the Book of
Concord is helpful and important subject matter. The person cutting them out obviously knows little, or nothing, about the subject matter and he hacked the article about. For instance, the details on differences in English
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Makes more sense to title it this way. More descriptive and will make it easier for folks to find. Keesie, you do not have to stalk me on
Knowledge, do you? Since you've only been editing since last November or so, I'm sure you might not be aware of the Knowledge guideline on harassment, but you
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comes into play here. To quote the nutshell summary of the page, "Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of
English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second
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You have not provided legitimate reasons for undoing the edits on the page, which are quite entirely appropriate. You are apparently grinding some kind of personal axe here and using a "slash and burn" approach toward the page. Stop tampering with a page that is perfectly fine.
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should not be used for book titles. I also think that employing double single-quotes is better than using this formating of text in italics. I have seen that that type of formatting in the "sandbox" tends to mess things up. Using double single-quotes is easier and works just as
364:, so I think that it is appropriate to leave this reference in this paragraph. The writings of the 16th and 17th Century dogmaticians could also be defined as simply making statements about Lutheran doctrine. The Lutheran confessional writings have more formal authority.--
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Before removing things wholesale and moving articles editors should have the courtesy to discuss doing this. The article was fine as it was. The translation of the German Wiki article is a useful resource, since the Book of Concord is a German and Latin collection of
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stalking me! ;-) ...) Might you be comfortable moving this page back to where it belongs? Or shall we patiently wait for CTSWyneken? (OMG! Maybe he's stalking me too. Nah! I don't worry about such things.) Anyway, regarding the movement of this page, as it is now,
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Where do you get that idea from? I know that the Confessions have a descending order of importance from the Apostles Creed to the Formula, but what is your authority for saying this? Please remember that this is a joint venture. We don't have to dumb things down
1410:. They will be reverted to a version that simply mentions a few details of the editions, not provides press release-like analysis. I would also advise you to pay attention to these justifications, which indeed have been given before, and also to sign your posts.
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Hi Drboisclair. I completely agree about the article moving, and thank you for clarifying why you like seeing the German translation. Since we're on the English language Knowledge, and since there is a high amount of overlap between the section now called
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truly amusing to see how she operates with a double standard. Funny! Hypocritical too. I don't see though any "value added" by using the German WIKI article. Is there something really new or different in it beyond what we have without it? I am not sure.
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This article will be expanded: it is not a short introductory article as editor with IP address 68.94.95.118 has stated. If this editor wants a simplified article, he might want to consider writing an article in the simple English Wiki
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It answers the question: In the Lutherland what do they think about the Lutheran Confessions today? I think that it is helpful, but I am only one editor among many. Thank you for responding so quickly and with respectful courtesy.--
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You make a good point about the redundancy. Perhaps we could provide translation of the article that would remove redundancy. I could have footnotes to the listing of the various documents that have comments appended in the German
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There is nothing wrong with the article even if the foregoing poster does not like it. For some reason he disapproves of the term "corpus doctrinae" even though it is employed in the Concordia Triglotta.--
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I have removed the redundant parts and have revised the translation to the present article in the German Knowledge. I have also removed the sales links in this article, which are inappropriate here.--
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I think that we are on the same page here. The Lutheran symbolical books, AC, Ap, etc. were not considered creeds as were the Apostolicam, the Nicenoconstantinopolitanum, and the Athanasiam. SDG!--
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Can somebody please clean up the Book of Concord article and get it at least formatted correctly so it does not look so hideously ugly? It is bad, especially that "corpus" section. Yuck.
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This material is gratuitous and in error. The article written NPOV expresses that this is the Lutheran position, and to say that Lutherans believe in "consubstantiation" is an error.--
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Confessional Lutherans certainly do consider the Lutheran Confessions to be equal to the three Ecumenical Creeds. Equally true, equally binding. What is at issue, exactly?
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The article is neelessly clunky and unhelpful as a basic introduction with the "Corpus Doctrinae" intejection. It is much cleaner as edited.
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Beyond that, your behavior on WP (that which led to your block and your actions since) are a disgrace to the institutions you represent.
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I'm still wondering though why it is perfectly ok for Keesie, at least in her mind, to drastically change a page, but not others? Hmmmm?
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The excising of information of this article turns it into a mere stub. There is disagreement as to essential and non essential here.--
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I wondered about that too. I don't see any need for it in the article either Keesie. Gasp! Did we just agree on something? <g: -->
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Do we still need this on the article's page? It didn't appear so to me ... so, I've moved it here for safe keeping, just in case ...
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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You are just going to confuse readers. Lutherans do NOT regard the Lutheran Confessions on the same level as the Creeds proper.
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Interesting perspective, Drboisclair, regarding how the Lutheran Confessions are described by today's "Lutherland" residents.
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I have copy edited the section now entitled "Body of Doctrine" at the above suggestion since it needed some tidying up.--
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to familiarize himself with these subjects, before his own misconduct potentially draws the attention of administrators.
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1229:. Why must we insist on dumbing things down? The idea is to give as much information in as terse a manner as possible.--
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Are you going to go through and remove the bold face words in the article that are out of place? I think they look odd.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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The concept "ecumenical symbols," which had been used since 1577, however, has not been employed accurately.
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above both disturbing and completely unfounded. I am familiar with the user he has I believe unjustifiably
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Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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https://web.archive.org/web/20061125220032/http://www.lutheranlegacy.org/booktoc.asp?BookID=32
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doctrine, they set them forth. I don't think that exposition is that sophisticated a word.--
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There is no good reason that I know of to bold and italicize every (less two) instance of
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I edited out clear promotional tone. All your readditions clearly and completely violate
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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was published on June 25, 1580 in Dresden as complete collection of the so called "
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That is what I have done when I have been editing. Using the "i" inside the <: -->
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https://web.archive.org/web/20050825141512/http://www.ctsfw.edu/library/files/pb/163
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English speaking Lutherans. Thanks for your thoughts (BadBilltucker or CTSWyneken).
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of the Lutheran Church. The authentic Latin text was published in Leipzig in 1584.
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The caption to the article now has the English version, which is appropriate.--
1669:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
1523:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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user who has yet to answer my questions regarding his being able to speak for
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Please elaborate on the article movement war that seems to have started.
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appendix of Philipp Melanchthon on the power and authority of the pope
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since some search engines look for these tags to aid in indexing. --
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Issue was simply which word to use "exposition" or "explanation."
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http://www.lutheransonline.com/lo/759/FSLO-1132504257-805759.pdf
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The material in the introductory paragraph on "corpus doctrinae"
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The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic
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http://www.wlsessays.net/subject/C/Confessions%2C%2BLutheran
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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http://www.wlsessays.net/subject/C/Confessions%2C+Lutheran
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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So, can't anyone do anything to clean up this ugly site?
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might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper
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No, Keesie, the reason I know you are in violation of
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Lutherans consider their confessional writings to be
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It is not necessary to turn this article into a stub
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http://www.lutheranlegacy.org/booktoc.asp?BookID=32
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http://www.lutheranlegacy.org/booktoc.asp?BookID=31
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639:. (Thankfully, I'm wise enough to know you are
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469:Agreed. I started to change it. Have at it.
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1341:
1320:
1244:
1212:
1199:
1090:for the article.
1064:
809:Athanasian Creed
761:symbolical books
498:
301:
300:
297:
294:
291:
267:
260:
259:
254:
246:
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137:
136:
133:
130:
127:
106:
101:
100:
90:
83:
82:
77:
74:
55:
48:
31:
25:
24:
16:
1816:
1815:
1811:
1810:
1809:
1807:
1806:
1805:
1731:
1730:
1719:
1714:
1682:
1675:have permission
1665:
1603:this simple FaQ
1595:Book of Concord
1588:
1573:
1568:
1536:
1529:have permission
1519:
1503:
1463:this simple FaQ
1455:Book of Concord
1448:
1391:
1324:
1303:
1300:
1223:
1172:this comment).
1057:
1034:
892:
887:
870:Large Catechism
858:Small Catechism
787:Apostolic Creed
773:corpus doctrinæ
765:Lutheran Church
749:
714:
594:official policy
527:
496:
446:
432:
406:
358:
343:
315:High-importance
298:
295:
292:
289:
288:
271:Book of Concord
253:High‑importance
252:
203:High-importance
179:High-importance
134:
131:
128:
125:
124:
102:
95:
75:
61:
32:on Knowledge's
29:
12:
11:
5:
1814:
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1645:Added archive
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1587:
1584:
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1562:
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1488:
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1479:Added archive
1477:
1469:Added archive
1447:
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1422:
1390:
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828:
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805:
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713:
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481:
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444:Overformatting
442:
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405:
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331:
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311:
305:
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268:
256:
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235:
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227:Top-importance
217:
207:
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193:
183:
182:
169:
159:
158:
151:Mid-importance
147:
141:
140:
138:
121:the discussion
108:
107:
91:
79:
78:
76:Mid‑importance
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
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3:
2:
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1311:
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1297:
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1282:216.9.250.109
1279:
1278:
1277:
1273:
1269:
1264:
1263:
1262:
1260:
1256:
1252:
1251:71.157.172.78
1248:
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1232:
1228:
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1210:
1205:
1204:
1201:
1197:
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1185:
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1158:is considered
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703:Badbilltucker
699:
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678:WP:Harassment
675:
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603:
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583:
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579:
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568:
567:Martin Luther
557:
554:
550:
549:WP:Harassment
545:
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541:
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286:
282:
278:
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269:
266:
262:
261:
257:
251:
248:
245:
241:
228:
225:(assessed as
224:
223:
213:
209:
208:
204:
201:(assessed as
200:
199:
189:
185:
184:
180:
177:(assessed as
176:
175:
165:
161:
160:
156:
152:
146:
143:
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139:
122:
118:
114:
113:
105:
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94:
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89:
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84:
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69:
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57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
1713:
1710:
1685:source check
1664:
1658:
1655:
1592:
1589:
1567:
1564:
1539:source check
1518:
1512:
1499:
1495:
1491:
1489:
1452:
1449:
1424:
1392:
1322:
1310:68.92.251.63
1301:
1242:
1224:
1211:
1206:
1198:
1189:
1169:
1157:
1137:weasel words
1129:
1125:
1114:
1071:
1063:
1058:
1044:
1035:
1012:Keesiewonder
973:Justas Jonas
935:Keesiewonder
923:
912:Justas Jonas
895:documents.--
893:
884:
836:Justus Jonas
813:Athanasianum
812:
801:
790:
777:
772:
768:
760:
756:
755:
750:
733:Justas Jonas
718:Keesiewonder
715:
658:Keesiewonder
653:
649:
645:
640:
636:
635:
624:Justas Jonas
602:Justas Jonas
593:
586:Justas Jonas
574:Keesiewonder
564:
553:Justas Jonas
537:
531:Keesiewonder
528:
492:
471:Justas Jonas
460:
454:Keesiewonder
449:
447:
433:
419:
410:
407:
372:
359:
344:
334:
314:
281:project page
274:
270:
220:
196:
172:
150:
126:Christianity
117:Christianity
110:
59:Christianity
40:WikiProjects
1506:Sourcecheck
1375:Drboisclair
1361:Drboisclair
1347:Drboisclair
1325:—Preceding
1304:—Preceding
1268:Drboisclair
1245:—Preceding
1231:Drboisclair
1182:. See also
1130:==Journey==
1047:Drboisclair
1021:Drboisclair
995:Drboisclair
952:Drboisclair
897:Drboisclair
791:Apostolicum
646:it's broken
510:Drboisclair
436:Drboisclair
395:Drboisclair
386:Drboisclair
366:Drboisclair
348:Drboisclair
290:Lutheranism
273:is part of
250:Lutheranism
72:Lutheranism
1735:Categories
1722:Report bug
1576:Report bug
1432:Anglicanus
1209:Arch O. La
1196:Arch O. La
1061:Arch O. La
1041:Eucharist.
993:article.--
872:of Luther,
838:the Elder,
551:. Thanks.
285:discussion
1705:this tool
1698:this tool
1559:this tool
1552:this tool
1412:oknazevad
1166:citations
848:with the
598:consensus
1711:Cheers.—
1565:Cheers.—
1408:WP:UNDUE
1327:unsigned
1306:unsigned
1247:unsigned
845:of 1537
802:Nicaenum
800:(called
751:Source:
422:Ptmccain
375:Ptmccain
64:Theology
1599:my edit
1492:checked
1459:my edit
1404:WP:ELNO
1400:WP:NPOV
1097:infobox
1088:context
763:of the
508:well.--
497:Wyneken
413:Uac1530
404:Creeds?
384:here.--
317:on the
153:on the
30:B-class
1500:failed
1170:strike
1141:WP:AWT
1128:, use
362:creeds
36:scale.
1116:*Per
1107:, or
1078:*Per
769:canon
68:Texts
1496:true
1436:talk
1416:talk
1406:and
1379:talk
1365:talk
1351:talk
1335:talk
1314:talk
1286:talk
1272:talk
1255:talk
1235:talk
1082:and
875:the
868:the
856:the
841:the
830:the
807:the
796:the
785:the
309:High
1679:RfC
1649:to
1639:to
1623:to
1613:to
1533:RfC
1510:).
1498:or
1483:to
1473:to
771:or
654:all
650:one
641:not
596:on
493:CTS
145:Mid
1737::
1692:.
1687:}}
1683:{{
1546:.
1541:}}
1537:{{
1508:}}
1504:{{
1438:)
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1257:)
1237:)
1103:,
815:),
411:--
229:).
205:).
181:).
70:/
66:/
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811:(
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789:(
321:.
287:.
157:.
42::
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