Talk:Books-A-Million

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of the article based on its content, not your best guess as to my intent. That said, I have written a truly unique and concise article that contains only the highlights of the information. This is my strong effort to take in your criticism and, in a spirit of open-mindedness, improve the article for the wiki community duely. Much information that I feel would have been beneficial has been completely omitted. This is me summarizing the information based strictly off the highlights that remained aglow in my mind after significant research. I'm sure there will be no further objections to this very merited change to what was previously an incomplete entry.

1621:-I am of course happy to oblige in the area of working out the needless fluffery. Language convention and good rhetoric calls for expanding the data from chart form into sentence form. When you write this, it makes it seem like you want there to be only a bullet list of dates and facts, which is not the way Knowledge articles are written (mostly). I'm sure that's not what you're asking for, but perhaps if you could tell me a bit more specifically what changes you'd like to see... Please do provide your suggested edits of the problem sentences if you have thoughts. 1618:-This was a comment that was made in the source. I'm not sure how you would call it PR. That would imply that one approach is for some reason superior to the other. What it is meant to say is that they did not grow outside the southeast. How about: "Books-A-Million expanded within the southeastern United States in areas that, by comparison to the country's more metropolitan areas, had low population density." or something like that? Eikou (talk) 20:43, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 1351:). I do indeed think that your source is dubious at best. There is no way that it would be reproduced in various online locations like that if it was the original historical work of an author of the text you are using. You also have to realize that your initial plagiarizing approach is why this started, and why I'm now scrutinizing the source. It should stay out until we settle this. Please stop adding your text back in until we have sorted this out. 1612:-It was a unique niche based on the fact that the construction workers had not previously found a business willing to satisfy their need. It is a direct logical implication, self-evident in the text. The way the source tells this story does not stop it from being recorded fact by the source that we have every reason to believe is reliable. I'm open to rewording, but I can't think of how. Suggestion?Eikou (talk) 20:43, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 1961: 672: 421: 1513:. This store was a sharp contrast to its predecessors, spanning 30,000 square feet of selling space, and various other types of merchandise as well as books. Books-A-Million maintained a small town, regional focus in a time where most stores were gaining a more national, metropolitan focus. These small towns were not able to support a book store that sold only books, but the Books-A-Million model proved profitable. 598: 573: 240: 1022: 947: 222: 250: 191: 662: 644: 1294:- and I'm sure there are plenty of other mirrors of this text. Why? Because it is quite clearly an official press release from Books-A-Million. Your first thought was to simply copy paste it from Answers.com. Then you tweaked it and claimed the book as the source instead of answers.com. Once again, that is not what we do here. The text you are adding is promotional of the company. Cheers. 336: 318: 742: 346: 1606:-Ancestor to current leadership, as written. Meaningful because while he was not the Books-A-Million founder, he was the founder of the store that led to it, as it says as the article continues. How about something like "Clyde W. Anderson, the earliest company's first employee," or something like that?Eikou (talk) 20:43, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 1506:

front was good enough to allow the young man and his brother to open a book shop. Clyde's son Charles C. Anderson inherited the bookstore in 1950, and began a chain of bookstores known as "Bookland". Bookland stores were commonly found in shopping malls, which were growing rapidly in popularity during the 1970's.

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Then there is the remaining question about what the true source of the information is in the first place. I won't dispute that basic facts can be reliably sourced from this book. Those facts would include the dates at the company official expanded in this or that way, etc. However, the added fluffery

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I listed it as a separate entity because it's listed as a separate brand. I thought this would carry even if it had 0 standalone stores. I agree that it does not merit an article in its own right, but I believe it's a notable mention within the Books-A-Million article as it stands now, though I have

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I thought this seemed like a solid idea since it's already suggested that Joe Muggs be merged with BAM. Of course, it goes without saying that each subsection would have 2-3 sources for referencing and completely original writing. I noticed that there's already a Bookland article though. Should this

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Blindly negating my point does not constitute a counterpoint. "Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done." I find your comments to be insulting. This is, of course, open to interpretation, but it would be a decent behavior to cease them and,

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The text I am adding is historical record, not promotion. A cornerstone of your argument is that it is released as an official company bio, which is something you have no backing that you have yet offered, aside from that "you think so". Please make an effort to look for the validity and reliability

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on

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In 1992, the company went public on the NASDAQ exchange. This was the time when they finally officially changed their name from Bookland to Books-A-Million. Expanding on their "bookstore and more" model, they offered frequent in-store activities such as book signings and readings. They also adopted

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The earliest roots of Books-A-Million are found in a newspaper stand in 1917. Clyde W. Anderson, ancestor to the current executive leadership in the company, found a unique niche in the newspaper business by providing transient construction workers with papers from their hometowns. Business in this

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But it is historical fact. You can't claim creative license on it can you? I mean... it all happened. Regardless of who says it or how, it's history not owned by anyone. I'm sure I'm wrong, but this is my understanding as it stands. Also, instead of deleting everything all at once, it would be more

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After a brief talk with TransporterMan, I understand much better what the page needs to consist of. He recommended I avoid phrases such as "The premier bookseller", which makes tons of sense to me. He also said the previous source would probably be acceptable (if unchallenged), as long as it all I

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I was happy to reply to them when they were re-added in less confusing formatting. I do not think that the relevant facts need to be listed as bullet points at all. I would alter some words in the above text and delete a thing here and there that sound a bit dubious or subjective, leaving the most

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I like it overall. I'd suggest a chronological order, bringing in each unit as they became part if the company, either through acquisition (for the ones bought over the years, which I believe is how Bookland comes in) or launching (Joe Muggs, for example). PS, I agree with the affording nature of

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Okay so it seems we'd need another source for the company's history. Do you have any suggestions? I've been looking at Barnes and Noble's pages for comparable sources, but I'm having trouble seeing what makes theirs more valid than those I posed. Could you help me to understand this so that I may

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Look. Use reliable sources to find notable facts about the company and construct a history out of them. Don't just dump info here from other websites and rephrase it. You're not only plagiarizing when you do that you're also not filtering at all. Also the information you added is quite clearly an

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I'm considering a different approach to this. I've been researching, and I see that Books-A-Million the corporation has several... subsidiaries I think you'd call them? They own other companies... I'm not sure my business lingo is exactly right. Anyway, I was thinking of making the main article

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I had posted a rather large history section from answers.com, and it was deleted seemingly spontaneously. Any explanation for that? It was a copy and paste job, but I was under the impression that objective historical fact was fair game for such practice. What would I have to do to get a history

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Okay, so are you saying you have an objection to my most recent edit? I have every reason to believe that the author of the work I'm using is completely impartial and objective. Also, please refrain from comments like "You also have to realize that your initial plagiarizing approach is why this

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Actually, Books & Company still operates, out of Kettering, Ohio. It was originally an independent store that was purchased by Books-A-Million. At one point, I believe BAM opened a second Books & Company in Alabama, but that one went out of business. A second Books & Company will be

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are considered a personal attack according to our policy, but clearly we are free to point out pertinent things about various edits made by others, for instance when those edits constitute plagiarism and the like. I am not impressed by your attempts to make it seem like the matter is somehow

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I went to the Books-A-Million corporate website, and found no mention of the Books & Company division for the company. So, I'm guessing it was phased out at some point, though I don't have a reference for when that might have happened. If anyone out there has info, bring it on! —

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Eikou, I will not refrain from such comments. Those comments explain exactly why my approach to your current additions are more cautious than they would otherwise be. I'm simply being honest with you about that, and I think it is quite justifiable given how this has progressed.

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Alright it's posted! Please review. I added a Joe Muggs section. I wasn't quite sure about the merger procedure, so I left the merge tag as well. If it seems good to the next editor, It seems to me the tag can be removed, and the Joe Muggs entry can redirect to the

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I found some pretty good sources for writing this article, but there are 3 subsidiaries of BAM that I have not been able to find a significant amount of information about. For now, my plan is just to omit them unless someone has a different suggestion. They are:

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BAM uses B&Co as a learning tool, so it is rarely referenced with the rest of the company. It is pretty much an autonymous entity, with its own buyers, POS system, accounting, etc. The Birmingham store opened in 2002 using talent from recently-acquired

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I wouldn't doubt that there are factual bits of information in your proposed addition, but there is also much else in there. The manner in which it is written, taken after the source itself, is not particularly encyclopedic. E.g. ...

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Can't find much 3rd party on AWBC. I know they used to fill for Wal-Mart and some for Target. Do they still? Also, is AWBC hq'd in Florence, AL, or in TN? I thought the former, but ran across a couple references to the latter.

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Hi, I am new here so I don't know how to address this personally but the Joe Muggs link is redirecting to Starbucks. Starbucks is a competitor. It probably shouldn't redirect to Starbucks even if there is no Joe Muggs page.

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There is no indication that the book in question is reliable for this information. There are indications to the contrary. All three of these websites have the same text you claim is in the book on them, word for word -

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has been redirected here as well. (It pointed to a non-notable local store in Virginia, while giving the weblink for the two Ohio stores that are Books-A-Million in all but name. Actually, the name appears to be kinda

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subjective or open to interpretation. It is not. You plagiarized from a poor source and I am now more cautious of your desired additions. You'll find that a rather common reaction. There is nothing "personal" about it.

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pull from it is objective data and not fluffy sentences that contain phrases like the one mentioned. I feel the rewrite will be much more encyclopedic in nature. I plan to post it today, so please be on the lookout.

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Books-A-Million entered the e-commerce world in 1999 when they published their own website and began online dealings of hard merchandise such as books, audiobooks, radio shows, etc. as well as digital merchandise.

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As for the rest, looks pretty good. I also wonder if anything needs to be said about NetCentral. If they have no other clients besides their owner, they aren't independently notable enough for even a mention.

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article, and I thought to myself "Here are two incredibly similar companies that probably have similar levels of available information. Their pages should therefore contain similar levels of information."

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about the corporation alone, then creating a second section called "subsidiaries" (or whatever the right word is), with a sub-section for each of their 7 businesses and a small entry for each. They are:

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relevant facts in a prose form. I've asked for more guidance on the source at a relevant noticeboard. See below. I hope that if someone with more expertise says it is reliable we can do just that. Cheers.

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helpful to offer changes to include the information. That's what we're about here isn't it? Making information available? Instead of removing it, how can we make it accessible? That should be the goal.

808: 1532:. Books-A-Million continues to look towards expanding beyond being "just a book store", and has recently struck a deal with Yogurt Mountain as well as spawning a spin-off company, 2nd and Charles. 439: 542: 1230:

official company bio submitted to the website and the book by Books-A-Million. As such plagiarizing that is even worse since you're basically copy pasting promotional materials here. Cheers

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is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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The first Books-A-Million opened in 1988 in Huntsville Alabama, and action taken in response to the surge of big brand bookstores that were growing in popularity across the

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one be merged or perhaps linked? (On a more personal side note, I'm beginning to see how people get addicted to this. The rigorous wiki process definitely has its draw.)

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I believe you'll be satisfied with the change. I've written a unique article based on information from what I understand through the guidelines to be a reliable source.

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Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Knowledge, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (

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Also, there was no mention of Books & Co. Though there's only two of them as well, they apparently have a separate history, which needs to be expanded. The title

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Eikou, please understand that convention here follows this pattern when edits are called into questions - 1) bold edit, 2) revert, and 3) discuss (see

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standalone newsstands. (Check the store locator map at the website.) There's not much reason to spend that much space on it, so I may trim it more.

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started, and why I'm now scrutinizing the source." as they make no argument for its validity or invalidity, only your personal opinion of me.

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AIS isn't even listed on the BAM corporate site, so I'm pretty stumped. The others are searchable, but the hits I'm getting lack substance.

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Books-A-Million maintained a small town, regional focus in a time where most stores were gaining a more national, metropolitan focus.

1609:* ...found a unique niche in the newspaper business by providing transient construction workers with papers from their hometowns... 1545: 1259: 1624:-In a circumstance like this, it would have been more helpful to move them or reply to them rather than erase them and ignore them. 2003: 1572:...found a unique niche in the newspaper business by providing transient construction workers with papers from their hometowns... 696: 604: 578: 359: 323: 99: 30: 1329:

Should there be any suggestions for improvement, I'm entirely willing to listen. Please avoid complete deletion if possible.

168: 1574:- Who says this was a unique niche? The way the source tells this story makes it sound like company lore or sugar coated PR. 533: 104: 20: 135: 1678:

Sounds good. Assuming it comes back reliable, we'll be in agreement? Then would I post the proposed addition or would you?

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coffee shops, and included them in the bookstore. The focus was to illicit an environment where books could be enjoyed.

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I just found this source on that page that is a history directly provided by Barnes and Noble's corporate site.

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Also, that article from the web page you reference is taken directly, word for word, from the book I cited.

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is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under

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is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.

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I've asked for input on the book reliability question at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. See

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Nevermind. I found the comment explaining the action. I'll obtain a new source and rewrite.

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Under this model, the stores continued to grow. Today there are over 200 stores across the

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I'm trying hard to comply, but you're not putting it in easy terms for me. Is this book (

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Please make sure that these sources are reliable by our standards. Please have a look at

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For sure. But I would like to change some of the language as I stated above. Cheers.

1603:* Clyde W. Anderson, ancestor to the current executive leadership in the company ... 1510: 1466: 1422: 1403:

You are treading on the line of personal attacks. Please reconsider your approach.

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and rephrased it superficially. We don't write entries in this way. It is plagiarism.

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Clyde W. Anderson, ancestor to the current executive leadership in the company ...

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I stand corrected about that, but the former independent in Kettering still runs.

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Knowledge:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Books-A-Million_history_sourcing

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there. Can we get back to discussing the issue at hand please? Thanks.

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I tweaked the Joe Muggs section. There's not really much there, just

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No it is still plagiarism. You've simply dumbed the entire text from

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Is this still considered a stub, or can the "stub" label be removed?

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would only apply if my accusation of plagiarism "lacked evidence".

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If anyone likes the black logo I had up there, here's the picture:

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Knowledge requested photographs in Lauderdale County, Alabama

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headquarters at 402 Industrial Lane Birmingham, Alabama 35211

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Knowledge:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies

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as you suggested, get back to discussing the issue at hand.

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Knowledge article constitutes fair use. In addition to the

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Knowledge article constitutes fair use. In addition to the

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Wikipedians in the following regions may be able to help:

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can

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and subjective claims made by the source are not usable.

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Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence,

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Knowledge requested photographs in Birmingham, Alabama

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To improve this article, please refer to the 1568:- Ancestor to whom and why is that meaningful? 864:Books & Company portion of Books-A-Million 283:to join the project and/or contribute to the 174: 8: 1970:, has been nominated for speedy deletion at 1539:International Directory of Company Histories 1253:International Directory of Company Histories 479:Category:Company articles needing infoboxes 466:Category:Company articles needing attention 188: 766: 699:. 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Welcome! 2082: 2056:WikiProject Books articles 1974:for the following reason: 1537:Penderson, Jay P. (2011). 1251:Penderson, Jay P. (2011). 1087:05:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC) 1058:the image description page 1030:Image:Hdr bam on black.gif 1012:05:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC) 983:the image description page 955:Image:Hdr bam on black.gif 935:07:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC) 882:00:29, 26 April 2006 (UTC) 875:Colonial Brookwood Village 784:Lauderdale County, Alabama 716:Template:WikiProject Books 399:project's importance scale 2051:Start-Class Book articles 2008:23:19, 26 July 2011 (UTC) 1060:and edit it to include a 985:and edit it to include a 769: 655: 591: 405: 396: 329: 233: 215: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 1752:article, then I saw the 1541:. MI: Cengage Learning. 1255:. 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