1231:. I think the accent mark would be more accurate, though I'm not in a particular hurry to rename the article. (It's been years of delays; what's a couple extra weeks, right?) My comments above were in response to recent edits that removed every occurrence of the accent mark throughout the article, which I felt was an overcorrection even considering WP:COMMONNAME. I would encourage editors to avoid information loss in any quest for consistency. There's no prohibition against mentioning official or stylized names in article leads. BART even considered the inclusion of accent marks on its map to be notable enough to comment on it publicly. The worst that could happen with the status quo is that a reader perceives the article to be a bit inconsistent or sloppy, but at least they'll come away aware of the two spellings in use. –
805:(see attachment 6-B) sheds more light on it. We should find out in the coming week if VTA has actually missed the deadline. It says as of a BART/VTA meeting on Oct 1, VTA had 52 high priority issues to fix by Oct 20 in order to support opening the Berryessa extension by Dec 28. It also says BART will incur financial penalties, but does not say from which contract those come, if the extension doesn't open by Dec 28. So it appears both agencies are currently determined to make that date. I live near the BART line between the 2 new stations and see workers there every day and evening. A friend spotted a BART train at Berryessa Station last Wednesday as part of the testing.
439:
184:
90:
63:
251:
220:
100:
383:
32:
172:
403:
265:
1029:
overhead displays are programmed to always show destinations in all caps, which makes it unlikely that they'll add the accent mark even on the newer displays that have the resolution for it. But there's a chance the non-electronic, white-on-black destination signs or the 511-branded departure screens
1001:
is spelled with the diacritics but COMMONNAME dictates we don't use it. For the station, let us use the official spelling with the accent until enough sources arise to establish a COMMONNAME. On opening day, I plan to also see how it is spelled on train destination signs, with the caveat that I think
825:
This article has seen some back and forth about whether "North San José" is part of the BART station name and whether it's spelled with an accent mark. I'm not interested in wading into a broader discussion about diacritics and common names, but just to be clear, the official station name is indeed
761:
The official VTA website has not been updated, to reflect the latest project delay. The SJ Mercury has reported it was pushed back from late 2019 to 2020. BART and VTA are being coy about the actual project schedule, "trains probably won’t start taking passengers to those stations until sometime in
1002:
those signs are too ancient and/or do not have enough resolution (DPI) to correctly display the accent, particularly for the small indications used to show the next train's time rather than the large one used when a train with that destination is arriving.--
1062:
I don't have a particularly strong opinion yet, but leaning in favor of the double barrel (despite how much I hate the ridiculously long station names) and accent. Probably the best is to see what comes out over the next two weeks, particularly from BART.
1207:
711:; when deciding between versions of a word which differ in the use or non-use of modified letters, follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language (including other encyclopedias and reference works)."
875:
Another source of confusion is that, like the City of San José, BART is adhering to the typographical convention of omitting a diacritical mark from any capital letter, including when "San José" is printed in all caps.
197:
73:
867:
Part of the confusion is that the official station name was adopted fairly late in the process, so even the main entrance signage didn't include the smaller "NORTH SAN JOSE" until recently (compare with
860:
649:
referring more to maps and timetables and i suppose operator announcements (convention in addition to signage), but yes, that is very convenient labeling on the building itself in big letters.
869:
1414:
202:
1127:
Just because it has not opened yet does not necessarily mean a common name has not been established by reliable sources. And many of these sources still do not use the accent mark.
1409:
1419:
632:
1184:), still use "Berryessa/North San Jose" without the accent, use the shorten "Berryessa", or start to prefer VTA's "Berryessa Transit Center". Until then, this is premature.
1454:
1434:
343:
843:
839:
1429:
835:
1459:
1449:
1404:
162:
152:
942:
764:
1424:
1399:
1151:
And that seems likely to change once the new map and signage come into play. There will be substantial media coverage that day as well for sure.--
353:
1444:
1439:
1125:
1464:
783:
128:
855:
Each station identification sign on the outer side of the tracks says "Berryessa" in large type and "North San José" below in smaller type.
1310:
918:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
488:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
1119:
965:
540:
518:
453:
412:
234:
1123:
315:
311:
603:
San José should never have been moved to an e-removed spelling in the first place. It is still pronounced San José, not San-Johz.
1282:, because it's almost certain that the official spelling will get used more and more based on the recent official documentation.—
961:
113:
68:
1121:
797:
Be careful. The
Mercury News article says "likely". A delay to 2020 may yet happen but that isn't an adequate source for it by
457:
1367:
392:
230:
802:
1360:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1295:
1118:
be established by recent news articles and media within the past year on the construction and preparation of said station.
936:
654:
622:
189:
1375:
1270:
1086:
686:
544:
307:
298:
225:
43:
284:
1199:
1171:
and the others I previously cited start using the accent (which I highly doubt seeing how Bay Area media like the
1371:
1178:
909:
787:
732:
536:
479:
445:
527:– Consensus on various past requested move discussions is that the diacritical mark on the "e" on "Jose" should
932:
798:
650:
618:
31:
1318:
1266:
1082:
1068:
640:
608:
1155:
1102:
1054:
1006:
972:
919:
827:
744:
740:
673:
489:
49:
1385:
1347:
1322:
1301:
1274:
1257:
1238:
1217:
1193:
1158:
1139:
1105:
1090:
1072:
1057:
1037:
1009:
975:
954:
895:
814:
791:
720:
695:
658:
644:
626:
612:
593:
511:
1340:
1130:
So unless these same sources start using the accent after it opens, I do not support adding it here.
998:
849:
Station identification signs above the platforms alternate between "Berryessa" and "North San José".
532:
1163:
Yes, so there is no reason to move the page now until we get closer to June 13 and find out whether
1098:
Making this a full-fleged requested move as clear consensus has developed in favor of the accent.--
922:
after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
589:
552:
1128:
830:
and with an accent mark. The full station name is being used in at least the following locations:
127:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1314:
1253:
1146:
1064:
1045:
716:
636:
604:
560:
492:
after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
881:
Fortunately, at least everyone's on the same page about it being spelled "Berryessa". Or is it
1289:
1189:
1135:
704:
677:
568:
105:
1182:
707:
says "The use of modified letters (such as accents or other diacritics) in article titles is
1173:
1152:
1099:
1051:
1020:
1003:
969:
882:
810:
690:
856:
1333:
850:
877:
1203:
579:
303:
17:
1081:
I support use of the accent mark, especially as commonname has yet to be established.
1030:
might show the full name with the accent mark, since they're all set in title case. –
250:
219:
1393:
1249:
1198:
Aside from news sources, we'll want to keep an eye on other published media, such as
950:
712:
319:
274:
873:
1283:
1185:
1131:
564:
504:
89:
62:
1206:. I wouldn't be surprised if the accent mark takes hold among these media before
806:
681:
1026:
179:
123:
118:
95:
777:/san-jose-bart-delay-milpitas-berryessa-stations-likely-to-miss-2019-opening
382:
863:
says "BERRYESSA" in large type and "NORTH SAN JOSE" below in smaller type.
1379:
1232:
1211:
1031:
992:
946:
889:
171:
617:
I'm refraining from voting until we see what actual BART signage says.
402:
1164:
1248:, which is plenty common, more correct, and helpful to the reader.
541:
Talk:San Jose
International Airport#Requested move 12 February 2017
264:
306:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can visit the
1168:
433:
25:
838:
labels the station "Berryessa/North San José" and refers to "
758:
The line should be renamed, from Orange2019 to Orange2020.
739:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
401:
381:
302:, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
170:
852:
This is common practice for double-barrelled station names.
803:
BART Board of
Directors presentation slides from October 10
545:
Talk:San Jose Public
Library#Requested move 5 November 2018
310:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
872:) and some earlier terminus signs said only "Berryessa".
535:
and its related articles. These past discussions include
997:
I'd use the accent as in the official name. Officially,
117:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
523:
449:
1265:, per reasons stated before and by other users above.
631:
As of March 2018, signage was simply "Berryessa" (see
444:
On 12 June 2020, it was proposed that this article be
731:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
537:
Talk:San Jose, California#Requested move 23 July 2016
1050:
who I think would like to have a word on this too.--
364:
754:Opening delayed numerous times; updates are needed
747:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1415:Low-importance San Francisco Bay Area articles
1378:for consistency with this article's title. –
676:with the other San Jose articles, along with
8:
1410:Start-Class San Francisco Bay Area articles
29:
1420:San Francisco Bay Area task force articles
982:
908:The following is a closed discussion of a
478:The following is a closed discussion of a
361:
214:
57:
1455:Unknown-importance Rapid transit articles
1313:, and it is consistently used by BART.
216:
59:
1435:Low-importance rail transport articles
1309:: it's very clear that the accent is
7:
927:The result of the move request was:
844:Berryessa/North San José–Daly City
680:in which we don't use diacritics. --
547:. The rationale is that the "e" with
497:The result of the move request was:
296:This article is within the scope of
111:This article is within the scope of
1430:Start-Class rail transport articles
945:) at 04:22, June 12, 2020 (UTC).
836:BART system map effective June 2020
365:Associated projects or task forces:
48:It is of interest to the following
1460:WikiProject Rapid transit articles
1450:Start-Class Rapid transit articles
1405:Low-importance California articles
840:Berryessa/North San José–Richmond
709:neither encouraged nor discouraged
24:
1356:The discussion above is closed.
198:San Francisco Bay Area task force
966:Berryessa/North San José station
962:Berryessa/North San Jose station
861:The sign above the main entrance
524:Berryessa/North San Jose station
519:Berryessa/North San José station
454:Berryessa/North San José station
450:Berryessa/North San Jose station
437:
263:
249:
218:
182:
137:Knowledge:WikiProject California
98:
88:
61:
30:
1425:WikiProject California articles
1400:Start-Class California articles
571:) 06:22, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
348:This article has been rated as
157:This article has been rated as
140:Template:WikiProject California
1181:without the accent for example
471:Requested move 1 December 2018
1:
1445:WikiProject Stations articles
1440:Start-Class Stations articles
721:18:01, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
555:, regardless if the spelling
531:be included on the titles of
512:03:12, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
410:This article is supported by
390:This article is supported by
316:WikiProject Trains to do list
195:This article is supported by
190:San Francisco Bay Area portal
131:and see a list of open tasks.
1465:All WikiProject Trains pages
826:"Berryessa/North San José",
815:23:58, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
792:23:11, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
696:13:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
659:00:44, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
645:22:12, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
627:19:48, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
613:10:46, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
594:04:15, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
328:Knowledge:WikiProject Trains
331:Template:WikiProject Trains
1481:
901:Requested move 1 June 2020
354:project's importance scale
163:project's importance scale
1386:18:21, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
1376:Downtown San José station
1372:Downtown San Jose station
1208:print and TV news outlets
1179:San Jose State University
955:04:38, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
413:WikiProject Rapid transit
409:
389:
360:
347:
244:
178:
156:
83:
56:
1358:Please do not modify it.
1348:00:51, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
1323:02:32, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
1302:02:22, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
1275:03:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
1258:17:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
1239:09:23, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
1218:10:02, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
1194:04:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
1159:03:05, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
1140:01:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
1106:23:13, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
1091:22:43, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
1073:08:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
1058:07:32, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
1038:05:14, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
1010:23:41, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
976:23:13, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
915:Please do not modify it.
896:23:33, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
737:Please do not modify it.
485:Please do not modify it.
334:rail transport articles
1246:Yes restore the accent
983:#Official station name
968:per below consensus.
406:
386:
175:
114:WikiProject California
74:San Francisco Bay Area
38:This article is rated
1330:, common sense move.
821:Official station name
405:
385:
174:
999:San Jose, California
533:San Jose, California
393:WikiProject Stations
1114:. WP:COMMONAME can
933:DragonflySixtyseven
651:Mjdestroyerofworlds
619:Mjdestroyerofworlds
143:California articles
407:
387:
299:WikiProject Trains
176:
44:content assessment
799:WP:CONTEXTMATTERS
719:
694:
596:
468:
467:
432:
431:
428:
427:
424:
423:
420:
419:
294:
293:
213:
212:
209:
208:
106:California portal
1472:
1383:
1345:
1343:
1338:
1336:
1236:
1215:
1174:The Mercury News
1150:
1049:
1035:
1024:
996:
917:
893:
781:
715:
684:
586:
572:
559:the mark is the
551:the mark is the
526:
509:
507:
487:
456:. The result of
441:
440:
434:
372:
362:
336:
335:
332:
329:
326:
290:August 17, 2015
267:
258:
257:
253:
246:
245:
240:
237:
222:
215:
192:
187:
186:
185:
145:
144:
141:
138:
135:
108:
103:
102:
101:
92:
85:
84:
79:
76:
65:
58:
41:
35:
34:
26:
1480:
1479:
1475:
1474:
1473:
1471:
1470:
1469:
1390:
1389:
1381:
1364:
1341:
1339:
1334:
1332:
1267:Cristiano Tomás
1234:
1213:
1144:
1083:Cristiano Tomás
1043:
1033:
1018:
990:
981:In response to
913:
903:
891:
828:double-barreled
823:
784:166.107.163.254
778:
776:
774:
772:
770:
768:
766:
763:
756:
751:
580:
522:
505:
503:
483:
473:
438:
370:
333:
330:
327:
324:
323:
295:
269:
268:
238:
228:
188:
183:
181:
142:
139:
136:
133:
132:
104:
99:
97:
77:
71:
42:on Knowledge's
39:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
1478:
1476:
1468:
1467:
1462:
1457:
1452:
1447:
1442:
1437:
1432:
1427:
1422:
1417:
1412:
1407:
1402:
1392:
1391:
1363:
1362:
1352:
1351:
1350:
1325:
1304:
1277:
1263:Support accent
1260:
1242:
1241:
1226:
1225:
1224:
1223:
1222:
1221:
1220:
1202:and maps, for
1096:
1095:
1094:
1093:
1079:
1078:
1077:
1076:
1075:
1013:
1012:
960:
958:
925:
924:
910:requested move
904:
902:
899:
865:
864:
858:
853:
847:
822:
819:
818:
817:
755:
752:
750:
749:
733:requested move
727:
726:
725:
724:
723:
699:
698:
674:WP:CONSISTENCY
667:
666:
665:
664:
663:
662:
661:
635:for example).
517:
515:
495:
494:
480:requested move
474:
472:
469:
466:
465:
458:the discussion
442:
430:
429:
426:
425:
422:
421:
418:
417:
408:
398:
397:
388:
378:
377:
375:
373:
367:
366:
358:
357:
350:Low-importance
346:
340:
339:
337:
304:rail transport
292:
291:
288:
280:
279:
270:
262:
261:
256:
254:
242:
241:
239:Low‑importance
223:
211:
210:
207:
206:
203:Low-importance
194:
193:
177:
167:
166:
159:Low-importance
155:
149:
148:
146:
129:the discussion
110:
109:
93:
81:
80:
78:Low‑importance
66:
54:
53:
47:
36:
23:
18:Talk:Berryessa
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1477:
1466:
1463:
1461:
1458:
1456:
1453:
1451:
1448:
1446:
1443:
1441:
1438:
1436:
1433:
1431:
1428:
1426:
1423:
1421:
1418:
1416:
1413:
1411:
1408:
1406:
1403:
1401:
1398:
1397:
1395:
1388:
1387:
1384:
1377:
1373:
1369:
1361:
1359:
1354:
1353:
1349:
1346:
1344:
1337:
1329:
1326:
1324:
1320:
1316:
1315:Pi.1415926535
1312:
1308:
1305:
1303:
1299:
1298:
1293:
1292:
1287:
1286:
1281:
1278:
1276:
1272:
1268:
1264:
1261:
1259:
1255:
1251:
1247:
1244:
1243:
1240:
1237:
1230:
1227:
1219:
1216:
1209:
1205:
1201:
1197:
1196:
1195:
1191:
1187:
1183:
1180:
1176:
1175:
1170:
1166:
1162:
1161:
1160:
1157:
1154:
1148:
1143:
1142:
1141:
1137:
1133:
1129:
1126:
1124:
1122:
1120:
1117:
1113:
1110:
1109:
1108:
1107:
1104:
1101:
1092:
1088:
1084:
1080:
1074:
1070:
1066:
1065:Pi.1415926535
1061:
1060:
1059:
1056:
1053:
1047:
1046:Pi.1415926535
1041:
1040:
1039:
1036:
1028:
1022:
1017:
1016:
1015:
1014:
1011:
1008:
1005:
1000:
994:
989:
988:
987:
986:
984:
978:
977:
974:
971:
967:
963:
957:
956:
952:
948:
944:
941:
938:
934:
930:
923:
921:
916:
911:
906:
905:
900:
898:
897:
894:
886:
884:
879:
878:
874:
871:
862:
859:
857:
854:
851:
848:
845:
841:
837:
833:
832:
831:
829:
820:
816:
812:
808:
804:
800:
796:
795:
794:
793:
789:
785:
780:
759:
753:
748:
746:
742:
738:
734:
729:
728:
722:
718:
714:
710:
706:
703:
702:
701:
700:
697:
692:
688:
683:
679:
675:
671:
668:
660:
656:
652:
648:
647:
646:
642:
638:
637:Pi.1415926535
634:
630:
629:
628:
624:
620:
616:
615:
614:
610:
606:
605:In ictu oculi
602:
599:
598:
597:
595:
591:
587:
585:
584:
578:
577:
570:
566:
562:
561:official name
558:
554:
550:
546:
542:
538:
534:
530:
525:
520:
514:
513:
510:
508:
500:
493:
491:
486:
481:
476:
475:
470:
463:
459:
455:
451:
447:
443:
436:
435:
415:
414:
404:
400:
399:
395:
394:
384:
380:
379:
376:
374:
369:
368:
363:
359:
355:
351:
345:
342:
341:
338:
321:
320:Trains Portal
317:
313:
309:
305:
301:
300:
289:
287:
286:
282:
281:
278:
277:
276:
275:Trains Portal
271:
266:
260:
259:
255:
252:
248:
247:
243:
236:
235:Rapid transit
232:
227:
224:
221:
217:
204:
201:(assessed as
200:
199:
191:
180:
173:
169:
168:
164:
160:
154:
151:
150:
147:
130:
126:
125:
120:
116:
115:
107:
96:
94:
91:
87:
86:
82:
75:
70:
67:
64:
60:
55:
51:
45:
37:
33:
28:
27:
19:
1365:
1357:
1355:
1331:
1327:
1306:
1296:
1290:
1284:
1279:
1262:
1245:
1228:
1172:
1169:NBC Bay Area
1115:
1111:
1097:
1025:I think the
980:
979:
959:
939:
928:
926:
914:
907:
887:
880:
866:
824:
767:.mercurynews
760:
757:
736:
730:
708:
669:
600:
582:
581:
575:
574:
556:
548:
528:
516:
502:
498:
496:
484:
477:
461:
411:
391:
349:
314:. See also:
308:project page
297:
283:
273:
272:
196:
158:
122:
112:
50:WikiProjects
1153:Jasper Deng
1100:Jasper Deng
1052:Jasper Deng
1021:Jasper Deng
1004:Jasper Deng
970:Jasper Deng
920:move review
745:move review
553:common name
490:move review
40:Start-class
1394:Categories
1366:FYI, I've
1200:guidebooks
1165:sfgate.com
1027:Daktronics
929:page moved
870:March 2018
705:WP:ENGLISH
678:WP:ENGLISH
633:this photo
576:Relisting.
462:page moved
312:discussion
134:California
124:California
119:U.S. state
69:California
1370:renaming
931:by admin
883:Berreyesa
762:2020." (
741:talk page
583:Steel1943
1368:proposed
1311:official
1297:contribs
1250:Dicklyon
1042:Pinging
943:contribs
846:" lines.
743:or in a
713:Dekimasu
687:contribs
318:and the
231:Stations
1328:Support
1307:Support
1285:Naddruf
1280:Support
1229:Support
1204:WP:WIAN
1186:Zzyzx11
1132:Zzyzx11
842:" and "
670:Support
565:Zzyzx11
506:Calidum
352:on the
161:on the
1382:Nguyễn
1235:Nguyễn
1214:Nguyễn
1177:treat
1156:(talk)
1147:Zzyx11
1112:Oppose
1103:(talk)
1055:(talk)
1034:Nguyễn
1007:(talk)
973:(talk)
892:Nguyễn
807:Ikluft
801:. The
682:IJBall
601:Oppose
325:Trains
226:Trains
46:scale.
1380:Minh
1342:84664
1335:Cards
1233:Minh
1212:Minh
1116:still
1032:Minh
890:Minh
771:/2019
499:moved
448:from
446:moved
16:<
1319:talk
1291:talk
1271:talk
1254:talk
1210:. –
1190:talk
1136:talk
1087:talk
1069:talk
951:talk
937:talk
834:The
811:talk
788:talk
769:.com
691:talk
672:per
655:talk
641:talk
623:talk
609:talk
590:talk
569:talk
557:with
543:and
460:was
1374:to
993:Mxn
947:Mz7
775:/01
773:/10
765:www
549:out
529:not
452:to
344:Low
285:DYK
153:Low
121:of
1396::
1321:)
1300:)
1294:~
1273:)
1256:)
1192:)
1167:,
1138:)
1089:)
1071:)
964:→
953:)
912:.
888:–
885:?
813:)
790:)
782:)
735:.
717:よ!
689:•
657:)
643:)
625:)
611:)
592:)
573:--
563:.
539:,
521:→
501:.
482:.
371:/
233:/
229::
205:).
72::
1317:(
1288:(
1269:(
1252:(
1188:(
1149::
1145:@
1134:(
1085:(
1067:(
1048::
1044:@
1023::
1019:@
995::
991:@
985::
949:(
940:·
935:(
809:(
786:(
779:/
693:)
685:(
653:(
639:(
621:(
607:(
588:(
567:(
464:.
416:.
396:.
356:.
322:.
165:.
52::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.