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thirdly during his so-called "incredible sulk" from circa 1975 onwards. But this is not to forget his career as a minister and MP before 1965, which perhaps comes fourth. Therefore, the image should preferably be from the first period, but if not then the second period. I personally don't think that it is appropriate to have an image of Heath 12 and 13 years after he stopped being
Conservative Leader and Prime Minister, respectively, during a period that he is only third most famous for, and when he didn't really look like he looked as Prime Minister and Conservative Leader.
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Thank you for your thoughts and thank you for taking the time to reply to me! That is true in an explicit sense. But the manual of style does say that the lead image should be relevant and representative (see above), which I understand as meaning that the image should be contemporaneous to the period
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I haven't changed my opinion. Allan Warren's portrait is technically and artistically the best one on
Commons by a wide margin. While it might be nice to have an image showing him closer to his time as Prime Minister, none of the black and white ones that have been suggested is ideal. Also, there is
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I've added an option C. It might not be terribly kind (though it's not as bad as A), but Heath is almost facing the camera, it is from 1969 and it's 952 Ă— 1,178 pixels, which is larger than B and (I think, at least) of a high enough quality for this article, especially when you bear in mind the fact
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B is from 1966, while A is from 1987, which means that B was taken while Heath was
Conservative Leader and only four years away from being Prime Minister, while A was taken 12 and 13 years after he had left each of these roles, respectively. And it is clear that Heath is most notable for being Prime
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would be perfect, but I don't think that it's avaliable to us. I've also added an option E, which I've seen around
Knowledge, but it is from 1960, so possibly shows Heath a little too young (though it's not as out of date as the 1987 picture and still shows Heath as a minister) and it's only 581 Ă—
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is 1,927 Ă— 2,566 pixels). However, I don't think that B is of a low enough quality to mean that it isn't technically well-produced and the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works (remember Heath was a politician most notably from the 1960s and 70s). And I can't find
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Thanks so much for replying! You might have got your lettering confused, but I think that I've got the jist of what you're saying. It is clear to me that Heath was best known for the period 1970 to 1974 (when he was Prime
Minister), secondly 1965 to 1975 (when he was Conservative Leader) and then
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Thanks for your comment! If you have a moment, it would be really useful if you could explain in a little more depth what you think about my concerns that A isn't very contemporaneous. It would also be useful to know, while you can't see anything wrong with A, whether you think that C (or B or E)
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C, but they're all a serious reduction in suitability. As WAID notes in the prior discussion, quality is not synonymous with resolution, but the non-A options have a low enough resolution that the quality is noticeably poor. I prefer color when it is available, as it's more true to the subject's
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real-life appearance. I can see the appeal in choosing an image from during his prime ministership, but none of the options actually come from that time, and I wouldn't push for it anyway. Heath is someone that maintained a prominent, public career well past the 1987 photo.
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I still favour the 'incredible sulk' image that is used currently. I'm sceptical of the value of re-opening the old discussion and inviting the participants to opine again, though I also understand why that has been done, rather than proceeding immediately to an RFC.
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Finally, and I realise that this may be subjective and that it may not really fit into any
Knowledge policy, but B is clearly a kinder image of Heath than A, A being taken when he was in his 70s and not really smiling. Please let me know what you think about this!
2235:'s rationale that period-relevant pictures are best makes sense, as it would reflect the most relevant and recognizable appearance that the person has had, irrespective of how they might look today when they are mostly old news, and so am against using A.
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Secondly, A is clearly a better quality image than B. A is 10,157 Ă— 12,633 pixels, while B is 581 Ă— 708 pixels. But this is to be expected, as A was taken over 20 years before B and A is a professional photograph of exceptional quality (for comparison,
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anything on MOS:IMAGES that specifies a minimum size. Anecdotally, on my rather large monitor, I can't notice the low quality at all and we must remember that the image will only appear on phone screens and in the top right hand corner of the page.
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didn't require a RFC. Everyone who responded the past month supported the status quo except for Emiya1980, who seems to have an insatiable thirst for creating RFCs about infobox images. This disruption to the RFC process needs to stop here.
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policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or
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that the subject is best known for (which for Heath is 1970 to 1974). To me, this means that the image should be from around this time and represent the subject as they were at this time, criterium I don't think that A meets.
2776:'s memoirs (1971) lying in Sir Ted's study, inscribed with "To Ted, who knows what's it's like" or words to that effect. When the same person called a second time, the book had been removed and was nowhere to be found.
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is selling it for money they are unlikely to allow its license to be changed. We'll have to stick to the ones on
Commons. E is okay but it does show Heath as quite a bit younger than his term as Prime Minister.--
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I agree that a photograph from the period when he was PM would be more appropriate. I do not think the issue should turn on the technical or artistic quality of the image as a portrait, for the reasons given by
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At least one of Sir Ted's earlier biographers (I forget which one) mentioned that the example of Ian Harvey's disgrace might well have been among the factors causing Heath to keep his inclinations to himself.
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is the best of the available options. None of the alternatives are good enough to open RFC. I caught wind of this discussion via the "too many RFCs" discussion after another RFC was needlessly extended
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The Allan Warren photo has been the consensus lead image for quite a while, and I'm happy with it because it is probably the best photo of Heath on
Commons. Not a great fan of B as the infobox image.--
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If this can be resolved with the regular editors, then that would be great. If it needs a community-wide discussion via RFC, then it would be best to have an obvious attempt at complying with
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E for me. Overall, I agree with the comment by ianmacm. Heath's 'incredible sulk' was a long and notable feature of his public life, and I think it is well captured by the Allan Warren image.
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2418:. In terms of resolution, there is no minimum size, but a minimum width of 300px is best for an image in an infobox, and if you can get at least 480px, that would be even better .)
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Thanks for getting back to me again! The big smile does seem to be a trademark of Heath's, so perhaps it makes C a more natural and appropriate representation? I think that
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with A as a second choice (summoned by bot). D is straight out as it makes the bastard look almost handsome, which is misleading the reader. C would be my third choice.
2482:, just to confirm, what you're calling the 'incredible sulk' image is the same as what Ian's calling "Allan Warren's portrait", which is the full-color option labeled "
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Please stop pinging me with your silly accusations and please stay off my TALK. This RFC makes it 100% clear you're not interested in listening to other editors.
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The Allan Warren photo is technically and artistically the best photo of Heath. It also looks good in the infobox, which B doesn't as it is a less clear angle.--
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to be a photo showing him as Prime
Minister. This was only from 1970-74 and he lived to be 89. Overall, the Allan Warren image is still the best one.--
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There was not a snowball consensus in favor of the current lede in the prior discussion. Three other editors in addition to myself voted in favor of
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Note: These articles may overlap with those on other related lists. If you would like to make a change, either do so yourself, or make a
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is a high-quality, professional, color image. I think it's the clear choice here. If it comes down to the other options, it's D: -->
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C is better but I'm not keen on Heath's forced smile (one of his trademarks). You can browse all of the photos of Heath on
Commons
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I might have been thinking about another image that I'd link to when I added E, but it is a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out!
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Thanks for the feedback! I was wondering what you meant by "best" and why you're not a great fan of B. Thanks a lot in advance!
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I haven't kept up with Michael Cockerell's books in recent years, but maybe he mentions the tale in print somewhere.
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On another note, your insistence on attacking me in nearly every Rfc I've opened this year is really bordering on
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Recently I saw a TV interview with Michael Cockerell, in which he mentioned a tale of somebody finding a copy of
2711:. He was also known as "Teeth Heath" and "Grocer Heath", but wouldn't suggest either of those as a better title.
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I've included two possible candidates to be the lead image to the right. A is the current lede image, while
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Thanks for your comment. I completely agree and will keep a lookout for a better image.
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This would undoubtedly make a good infobox image if it was CC licensed, but since the
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towards me in every Rfc I've opened recently clearly falls within the definition of
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I like C best for its date, and better quality than B. I personally believe that @
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I'm not seeing a preponderance of Ted Heath in these mainstream sources.--
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724 pixels (which might not disqualify it, but may still act against it).
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Here are automatically generated lists of articles needing cleanup sorted
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because it was taken close to the time that Heath became Prime Minister.
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I completely agree. In my view, C is the best image that we've got. ~~~
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no absolute requirement to show him while he was Prime Minister.--
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says that all images (but the lead image in particular) should be
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Which of the following photos should serve as the lede image for
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might have occurred, I can't agree that this qualifies for a
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Thanks so much for getting back to me. That's very clear.
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I'd vote for photo C. (But what happened to photo D?) --
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A - I dont see anything wrong with the current image.
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Minister. Heath in A doesn't really look like how he
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2162:would be a better pick. Thanks in advance.
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3304:WikiProject Politics articles
3259:Musicians work group articles
2855:Politics, government, and law
2793:04:05, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
2378:09:45, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
1730:an appropriate representation
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1269:and see a list of open tasks.
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888:Template:WikiProject Cold War
879:and see a list of open tasks.
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427:This article is supported by
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42:Put new text under old text.
3344:Cold War task force articles
3142:Why would it be misleading?
2826:Please consider joining the
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2721:11:00, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
2700:10:55, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
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367:contribute to the discussion
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1742:looked as Prime Minister
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868:WikiProject Cold War
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105:No original research
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2145:MilborneOne
2047:What about
1612:written in
1367:by category
1246:Kent portal
148:free images
31:not a forum
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3144:Senorangel
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2774:Ian Harvey
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2684:Tony Blair
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233:While the
3183:A cropped
3101:Blurryman
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376:Biography
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281:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
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186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
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3050:. Your
2746:Bibeyjj
2728:as per
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