1644:, the format of this article began just describing the Exomars lander/rover as it was first proposed. Since then the Exomars program has been expanded to two pre-MSR missions designed to characterise possible exobiology/habitats. This article has tried to keep up with that by extending coverage to the whole programme but this means that focus on the rover is now diminished and as I said it seems a bit schizophrenic. Given that each mission, TGO and the rover, are both likely to warrant a full article in their own right it would make sense to split this one into an "Exomars pragramme" and "Exomars rover".
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launched on 14 March 2016 (Livestream began at 08:30 GMT ).". The sentence has connotations like "rising", "it now has" which stipulates increasing rate of failures. Also, Proton's reliability article which is referenced in the block mentions 10 failures, over 100 launches, not 4 out of 34 which implies less successful launches. The fact that the first phase of the project was launched successfully goes after the critical text and is conveyed in an unclear/generic sentence: "The ExoMars Trace Gas
Orbiter (TGO) launched on 14 March 2016".
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reduce costs. This was clearly stated on a meeting in
Frascati Italy. Most of the scientists argued against it but the simple statement that we have to find the money for that by cutting back major parts of science. If the instruments and the ground control is done by the Russians this does not cost ESA anything they are likely to drop the requirement of an early death of the EDM. A RHU in the lander and some solar arrays might give a few years of meteorologic data.--
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edit wall rolled back multiple time, once with the following reason - "it is not politics, but technology and statistics failures/successes". What kind of statistics on failures are we talking about here for the mars landing modules? In my opinion the whole sentence is a pure bias with little information: "
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The EDM will be small and ESA will be able to produce something, but the presented concepts for the rover looked very early stage. Retrorockets looking like what
Phoenix looked like was what is in the presentations at the ESWT5. Best was that there is absolutely no parachute available for the mass of
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My experience is exactly what is written in the news. TAS-I has stopped the work until a decision in May. The only positive thing is that NASA has no chance to cancel Mars Sample Return mission package. The
Decadal Survey makes it clear that sample return is the most important goal of NASA planetary
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showed up in some of the first drawings of the rover before 2007. This was never dropped and the place close to the RHU was always a horror for the engineers trying to participate the heat of the electronics. Entry, Descent and
Landing Demonstrator Module (EDM)was planed with a life time of days to
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Russian
Landing piece: Country in place of the company. Only 1 party of many project participants has criticism in the article. Criticism comes from mass media outlets, not from scientific sources, 2 out of 3 references are from the same newspaper which less than 2 months between publications. The
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Roscosmos accepted invitation to join the project. Proton will be given in exchange of full right membership. Final decision will be given by two inspection groups on 19 december 2011 in Moscow on meeting of NASA, ESA and FCA. One group should answer the question whatever Proton can be technically
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Even if NASA has fallen out from ExoMars, there's a slight possibility that Russia doesn't bother participating, or simply reject. It may be possible that the talks between
Russian and ESA might go on for some time, but if not forever. However, there is a big chance that Russia may take up. Is it
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Current status piece: "After experiencing a series of mishaps in the last few years, there are rising concerns about the Proton's reliability to fly the two-part ExoMars mission, as it now has a failure launch rate of 10%, or four failures out of 34 launches. The ExoMars Trace Gas
Orbiter (TGO)
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The latest Plans are all in the ESWT5 document package, but they look like there should be a large parachute and in the end retrorockets. The only point is that there is no parachute of the size we need. The funding of the instruments is of more concern for me. The whole story needs a top-level
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Actually, despite his track record, he is right this time. As things stand if it is definitely going on a Proton, it will be a Proton-M because that is the only Proton configuration flying. There are also a couple of references to it being on a Proton-M, and some ESA sources say "Ariane 5 or
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The EDM is the Entry, Descent and
Landing Demonstrator Module, to be delivered to Mars by TGO, not the rover landing system. The EDM will use powered descent ("retrorockets"). Russia will be responsible for the rover landing, so it's doubtful the US will provide much assistance for that.
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They work on it. The meeting 26 May went OK and they now study for a concept. First drafts may be shown at the next MEPAG meeting in Lisbon mid of this month. A decision might have to wait till the next ESA NASA meeting in late
September. So lets wait another two weeks.--19:59, 1 June 2011
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rover and the new ExoMars rover would be larger than the original plans. I added this update in the "history" section but am not sure if to modify the article now in a more comprehensive manner, or if we should wait for more info to be released. What are your thoughts on this? Cheers,
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states that Roscosmos may provide "radioactive heat generators" for both the EDM and the rover. This may dramatically increase the duration -and scientific return- of the mission. However, I'd like to wait for more sources to confirm this before its inclusion in the article. Cheers,
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Several space agencies confirmed that the Schiaparelli lander crashed, yet the article's authors can only bring themselves to say "most likely crashed", and "what appears to be the lander crash site." What fragile egos Euros and Russians have. It crashed. Get over it.
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I am glad it will become a more international project. It sounds like there is an understanding to colaborate, I suggest to wait until a collaboration is signed. Alternatively, update the article stating that negociations with Roscosmos are ongoing. Cheers,
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The info via ESA and NASA is not existing even people who should know do not talk, so before February we will have nothing. The vibration levels (directly depending on the launcher) have been changed and changed and will be changed again.
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that the 2016 lander won't now have a Russian-supplied RTG. I suspect that given it was planned as part of a barter then there'll likely be other changes elsewhere. We'll need a citable source on this which will probably come soon.
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At IAC in Fukuoka they said 2011 with a considerably smaller rover than originally intended. But there will be a fixed station as well. They switch from twice as big as MER to somewhat smaller than MER. And launcher is
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It will be interesting to see landing concept NASA is advicing. Airbags? retrorockets? skycrane-like system? I reckon it depends on mass of the rover; has it been settled at 300kg? Seems heavy for an airbag system.
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I just updated the article on the new proposed partnership, and deleted/moved some outdated information. I am sure I may have done some mistakes so please feel free to review and correct my edits - and grammar.
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There is an IP user that repeatedly entered that this is an Italian mission partnered with ESA and Roscosmos. Although for this project (ExoMars), Italy is the main investor/builder within ESA, it is
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2029:, the plan being for it to power the lander for at least a year. Jonathan specifically states the RTG, but I suspect that means the RHUs are unnecessary too with the short mission scenario.
2330:) needs to be updated, especially what current plans on contributions and time-tables are from NASA, ESA and Roskomos. If anybody can contribute with references, it would be most welcome.
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an "Italian" project, not an Italian lander and not an Italian rover. Perhaps we can clarify in the article that Italy has provided a large percentage of the funding. Comments? Cheers,
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Proton-M" (so coupled with a source confirming that the downselect to Proton has been made, I don't think that would be too far a leap to make without entering the realm of synthesis). --
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Critics have stated that while Russian expertise may be sufficient to provide a launch vehicle, it does not currently extend to the critical requirement of a landing system for Mars".
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The latest info I know, was on space.com couple of weeks ago and claimed ExoMars to fly in 2011 on a Soyuz-2b rocket from Kourou. Do you have a source for the 2013 launch info? --
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As of this moment, we don't know what Proton rocket is going to launch both ExoMars missions, since Roscosmos reached an agreement with ESA for their collaboration. I think
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The only possibility to avoid a MSL landing system re design is a one rover concept. So to save money this is the only way they found they can go.--21:12, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
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NASA will also deliver important contributions to ExoMars, including the Electra UHF radio package for TGO, and Mars Proximity Link telecom and engineering support to EDM.
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1895:). When Roscosmos anounces the specific Proton rocket model to be used, then it will be included and sourced here. And please respect the fact that the talk pages are
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I have the feeling that IF ExoMars doesn't get cancelled, the final word on the payload will be in November after the ESA determines if it could cough up the cash.
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Looks like ESA formally invited the Russians, and the Russians are stating their conditions for partnership. I'll make the update; thx!
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According to news decision postponed till February. But it said there are also talks about joint Lunar, Venus and Ganymede missions.
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There was a final (as final as ExoMars decisions are) word on the payload, but I am not allowed to disclose it. So let's wait.--
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S at your disposal to publish your own thoughts and analyses. You know this, anything else is a continuation of your trolling. -
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Your block was lifted 5 seconds ago and you are back at it?! For the n time: in Knowledge it matters NOTHING what you speculate (
1868:. I felt that editors may add Proton-M into the article, these must be cited using verifiable, reliable third party sources. See
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From the 8 Soviet landers (including Phobos-Grunt), one succeeded. That is an 87.5% failure rate. Just facts, not an opinion.
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I can't help but notice that this article contains bias and subjective political agenda against Russia/Roscosmos, namely:
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Nice....I spent all mornig creating the Exomars lander article and it was immediately deleted. I'm out. Good luck.
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Should be clearer either at IAC congress in Fukuoka or at the ESA Ministerial Conference in November in Berlin.
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After meeting Don McCoy and the funding agencies for the Analytical Instruments the situation looks strange.--
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Working groups have approved membership in the project. An agreement should be signed till end of the year.
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I placed the 'outdated' tag as the MAX-C rover proposal was cancelled and the ExoMars construction has been
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ESWT6 was held in Moscow Feb 2014 and I hope somebody will publish more info on the Russian instruments. --
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Please tell us they don't plan to only use retrorockets all the way down. Any links to the latest plans?
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that ESA and NASA are now considering to build only one rover for the 2018 launch. They would omit the
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used for the project. Second is thinking on Russian participation in scientific part of the project.
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I hope they publish the out come of the payload re-arrangement last week in Paris by PB-HME soon. --
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There will be another significant change. What I hear we have to rewrite the article once again.--
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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TAS-I is back to a 300kg rover design and we have to deal with the decrease in science payload.--
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rocket. Lets include both and let the dust settle till the ESA makes an official anouncement. --
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Latest ESA info suggest launch in 2013 by Ariane 5. I am looking for a clear reference on this.
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As of October 2009, there are 2 conflicting reports on the launch vehicle to be used: Russia's
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It's not a political bias. In fact both ESA and Roscosmos are lack of experience of Mars EDL.
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I thought that was advice for the rover's landing system. To be retrorockets too? CHeers,
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decision soon. After years not having a top-level decision this looks complicated to me.--
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The exact payload and structure is still not fixed, this will take some more months. --
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Just a heads-up that Jonathan Amos, one of the BBC Science Correspondents, has just
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I heard a talk by Albert Haldemann about the future of ExoMars and Max-C. --
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UK-built rover landing on Martian surface moves one giant fall closer
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They signed it! It took them 4 months, but now they signed it! --
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article for adding "something coherent". I am not introducing
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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Help needed on current plans for Mars sample return missions
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This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.
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A Russian vehicle from Guayana? Has this been done before?
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No. I'm not back at it, given that you praised me at the
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I am in favor. Go for it and I will assist you. Cheers,
1584:(May 28, 2011) Still looks like a single-rover mission.
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Yep. The Russians are comming and NASA is steping down.
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NASA envisions lending technical advisors to ExoMars
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1673:...OK I'll do it and you guys mop up ;-) Cheers,
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2473:— Preceding
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19:This is the
1931:not a forum
1897:WP:NOTFORUM
310:Spaceflight
301:spaceflight
257:Spaceflight
148:free images
31:not a forum
2521:Categories
2324:Mars-Grunt
2198:ChiZeroOne
2031:ChiZeroOne
1998:ChiZeroOne
1813:This page
1793:Elk Salmon
1646:ChiZeroOne
1131:Elk Salmon
1042:Elk Salmon
2332:Tony Mach
2310:(such as
1919:talk page
931:MadMaxDog
830:talk page
421:Astronomy
416:Astronomy
362:Astronomy
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2475:unsigned
2389:unsigned
2027:see here
1862:Proton-K
1858:Proton-M
1532:Cheers,
1487:anounced
891:Bricktop
684:European
565:Robotics
556:Robotics
521:Robotics
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2328:ExoMars
1993:tweeted
1921:of the
1530:halted.
960:Atlas V
956:'Proton
862:on the
835:Biology
826:biology
816:ExoMars
779:Biology
730:on the
640:C‑class
592:on the
448:on the
337:on the
228:B-class
154:WP refs
142:scholar
25:ExoMars
1971:Graham
910:Hektor
908:Soyuz.
900:Hektor
689:Europe
631:Europe
234:scale.
126:Google
2505:Rod57
2443:Italy
2351:Stone
2286:Stone
2252:Stone
2235:Stone
2161:Stone
2138:Stone
2098:Stone
2083:Stone
2045:Stone
2013:Stone
1838:Stone
1809:Power
1753:Stone
1607:(UTC)
1557:Stone
1511:Stone
1491:MAX-C
1455:Stone
1359:Stone
1236:Stone
1182:Stone
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2509:talk
2483:talk
2457:talk
2429:talk
2415:talk
2397:talk
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2326:and
2290:talk
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722:High
367:Mars
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2449:not
854:Low
636:ESA
584:Mid
440:Mid
329:Mid
176:TWL
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