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because it comports with and re-emphasizes the political biases of the authors. It's a shame to see
Knowledge has stooped so low. Specifically to Daniel's admission of the "high school" nature of this sentence and the tone it strikes - unless you are, in fact, a high school student, it's your job to do better. Not to make excuses for childish, unencyclopedic content while coyly admitting that the content is juvenile, biased, and not really necessary. Also, the fact that CNN is considered a "perennial reliable source" is comedic gold. I pay attention to the news all day every day, for a living. I consider myself left-of-center on most issues. But I cannot - I refuse - to believe that serious people who pay close attention to these things actually think that fucking CNN is a "perennially reliable source". It looks like Knowledge may have simply rotted too much in the past decade for it to be worth my time. It's too bad. Good luck with your virtual high school cafeteria brawls.
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been expressed on social media regarding the Four
Seasons Total Landscaping press conference. Why would a sentence be randomly inserted in an encyclopedia article to highlight the fact that some users on social media reacted with derision and mockery? Perhaps because the original writer(s) of this sentence were inclined to believe that the press conference was worthy of derision, as does everyone else in their personal bubble, so they believed that everyone, or everyone who mattered, thought the same way. I happen to think that the press conference was ridiculous to the point of self-parody. But, as someone who has been editing Knowledge on and off for over 13 years, the recent insistence upon maintaining obviously unencyclopedic, unsourced, and irrelevant language is something I find puzzling. Was there some change in Knowledge policy that did away with neutrality and objectivity?
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1616:". In my opinion, it's possible, just highly unlikely ...I mean, surely there was at least one other secure place they could have used that was slight more upmarket? (no offense FSTL!) The story just gets a bit muddy when you're aware of how many times the Trump campaign has lied about things and if you use
999:: I amended the hook to reflect that the run has turned out to be so popular that the organizers decided to make it a virtual event (run anywhere you can and upload a picture of yourself doing so to social media) since it would be impossible to enforce social distancing with so many people on the route.
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I'd still like to hear the campaign's side of this. They may have delegated the actual task of making the phone call to some low-level person not in
Philadelphia, not familiar with Center City, who went with the first phone number that came up on a search. Middleton's account is not inconsistent with
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But the organizers—a college web developer and a comedian who have a podcast called Junk Miles with Chip & Jeff —had to make it a virtual race because there was so much interest and they needed to avoid large crowds due to COVID-19. 'Too popular,' read one
Philadelphia Inquirer headline. (Runners
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Trump himself lent weight to the idea of mistaken identity when he tweeted, then deleted, that the press conference was at "Four
Seasons, Philadelphia". Four Seasons Total Landscaping poured water on the theory, however. "That's not the case," said Sean Middleton, director of sales. "I gave them the
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with the overwhelming majority voting to keep it; that would suggest to me that this article is worthy of an entry in this encyclopedia. With that set, we need to include all of the relevant information about the event. The main point of mine that I think you're still missing is, whether you like it
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Frankly, I see no reason whatsoever why an encyclopedia should make a vague, unsourced allusion to "users on social media". Last I checked, there are hundreds of millions, if not billions of social media users in the world. Surely, every opinion you can conceive of (and some you probably can't) have
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So we've established that the quote in question is "of dubious relevance" and is more indicative of "high school" behavior, rather than the behavior of adults writing an encyclopedia. I can only reasonably conclude that the overwhelming support for including this dubious and irrelevant sentence is
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I think that the sentence should either be changed, in a way similar, in spirit, to the way I changed it in my edit, or the sentence should be completely removed. Can anyone point me to a
Knowledge policy that welcomes this sort of framing and language in political articles? I'm interested in more
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The Four-Seasons-Hotel-Four-Seasons-Total-Landscaping mixup. (ICYMI, the Trump campaign booked the landscaping business for a press conference, which maybe would have been fine had
President Trump not mistaken it for the swanky hotel, then tweeted the location out to his 88.9 million followers ...
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Sean
Middleton had commented on it and he had no idea why, he could only guess. Is also the question of when he was contacted. What is the exact timeline? Another question is how the hotel knew that the conference was being held at the gardeners' premises. The hotel replied directly to Trump, the
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It's in the article, I think, because the news coverage (as
Aluxosm noted before an edit conflict) included a lot of "Look at the clever things people said about this on Twitter!", an angle which seems to me to be of dubious relevance (I mean, where were "Look at all the clever things people are
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My thoughts is that the word "ridicule" is too excessive and not neutral. The jokes and joking mentioned in the citations are based on the mistaken belief that the choice of venue was not intentional. "Humor" acknowledges that there has been mocking and parody in a neutral way without mentioning
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For sure! The timeline is interesting but it still doesn't clear up the main question: who could possibly think that it was a good idea to book this particular venue? 😂 (again, no offense FSTL) The fact that the initial inquiry of the venue's availability came just three hours before the event
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Article looks good, no copyvio, new enough. It doesn't need the ALLCAPS in the reaction part. Sources for the run and moving to virtual all fine and cited inline in the article. The hook is interesting. If you have an image of the street of the run, that could be used. Hook and special occasion
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I also don't find the logic convincing ... the local
Republican ward boss says no one called him, the Siravo family is not terribly active in local politics, and the coincidence of the name is just too unlikely. If it was security they were worried about ... well, surely one of Philadelphia's
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and state it in the lead. It would also be wrong to ignore the fact that the reason this event is notable is because of the amount of mockery it received. Just to be clear, I would love to see any reliable reporting to the contrary; more sources and facts about this event can only be a good
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So Middleton drove to Philadelphia to meet Siravo's son, Michael — the company's operations manager — and Trump campaign staff at the landscaping office. After about 10 minutes, Middleton said the Trump staff decided Four Seasons Total Landscaping was the place. By 9:45 a.m., the deal was
1463:) but even if Knowledge policies allowed for us to express this sort of judgmental attitude by not saying anything about in our articles, we're beyond the point where such complaints would amount to anything because it's just become part of the world we live in, even if it feels, well, so
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I am also not sure that it has been conclusively established that the choice of venue was not a mistake ... we have only heard this from unnamed employees at the landscaping company; AFAIK the Trump campaign itself has said nothing as to why this
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CNN is far from the only source that specifically mentions the word 'ridicule', it just makes sense to only use one source because the alternative is a list of every publication that states that the event was ridiculed/mocked/derided, or an
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And now, that moment will be commemorated by an 11-mile charity run from the Four Seasons Total Landscaping in Northeast Philly to the Four Seasons hotel in Center City ... Now anyone can test out the route on Sunday, November 29th
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has been about the ridiculousness of it. There are more than a few references in the article that specifically mention the reaction on social media and none of them talk about "praise", so unless you are proposing that the entire
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I created this article even though I had a feeling it might get an AFD. I'm an infrequent editor, so I'm excited to see it get past the AFD and on to this nomination. Many thanks to all who have helped it take off.
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As well as what I've observed above, in another subsection ... it seems entirely too coincidental that another business with "Four Seasons" in the name just happened to be the one they booked, one of the sort
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24. Rudy Giuliani, an attorney for President Donald Trump, speaks to the media at a press conference held in the back parking lot of Four Seasons Total Landscaping on November 7, 2020, in Philadelphia.
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section be removed, I'm not sure what the argument is for removing the statement in the lead. The statement in the body is not made by an author of this article, it is a direct quote of
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I don't know how to insert the link to the Youtube link, so would someone else fix it, please, and perhaps instruct me how I can do it myself if the need arises some time in the future?
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Your comments also led me to checking the sources for the claim that the choice of venue was actually intentional. Ironically, I found an interesting statement in the only reference,
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They've already given their end, suggesting it was deliberate on the campaign's part. The campaign is who really needs to speak on this one ... I mean, at least with the similar
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I still can't understand how the press conference actually came about, and I can't find any evidence. There are some theories, but they don't really explain everything.
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As stated in the article, the official line is that it was intentional, however the message got lost in translation when Trump was told. The only reference for this is
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This quote is wrong: "Come on, don't be ridiculous. Networks don't get to decide elections. Courts do."<ref name="Ended at Four Seasons Total Landscaping" /: -->
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started, leads me to think that it was just so rushed that the right questions (like... the name of the business) weren't asked by anyone involved in the planning.
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As I mentioned though, just sticking something in ref tags is enough to begin with, then someone with more experience can fill it out. You can try things out in
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ritziest hotels has enough personnel at its disposal to keep the riffraff out? One that's more or less walking distance from the Convention Center?
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Trump tweeted too early that the press conference was taking place in the hotel, the hotel knew nothing about it and a "solution" had to be found?
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I've been wondering the same thing! There is no clear answer. Maybe someday the landscaping company will share their end of the event. --
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The event drew humor and parody on social media, where it was assumed the Trump campaign had simply made a mistake with the booking.
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The conference was supposed to take place at the hotel, but the wrong company had been contacted and the error was noticed too late
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of what the section would look like if it were converted to a bulleted format instead. It still needs a bit of work (see:
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has interviews with the staff at FSTL regarding the order of events and it sheds a huge amount of light on this story -
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was in my early 20s and was one of the people saying clever things online that the media could and should have quoted?
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of the article and makes it easier to manage the citations. This is done by adding a name to the reference like this:
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but in this case it would be fine, I only used the C-SPAN video because there was already a citation for me to use.
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of a single source saying that the event was praised, it would be wrong to even mention it, let alone give it
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That is a pretty basic way to do it but is all that is really needed. A better way is to use a template like
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approved. You can move it to the special occasion slot after the bot moves the nom template to the subpage.
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some very interesting information to the timeline. The times are from an interview that Middleton did with
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is too relaxed and that one of the main reasons that this event is significant is because of the amount of
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among many blue-checkmark Twitter users, who assumed the campaign had accidentally booked the wrong venue.
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now are supposed to just run anywhere they want on November 28 or 29 and post photos online to prove it.)
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press conference held at a Philadelphia landscaping company by Donald Trump's presidential campaign
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press conference held at a Philadelphia landscaping company by Donald Trump's presidential campaign
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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would think a likely place to hold a press conference. It's like they decided afterwards to say "
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it should read: "Woooooow! All the networks? We have to forget the law! Judges don't count!"
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of the relevant information about a range of subjects. This article has already gone through
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Thank you. Looks like I have to find some tutorials about linking, formatting and so on.
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1137:"'Laugh about it forever': Twitter rolling on the floor over Rudy's Four Seasons mix up"
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My apologies, I missed the end of your comment there, potentially because it wasn't
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below.
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They think the New York Times' account of the situation is likely the most accurate
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the reason this event is notable, is because of the amount of ridicule it received
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I suppose we'd be best off using "ridicule", but perhaps in quotes and attributed.
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on this one so am asking for input on the wording of one of the sentences in the
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Template:Did you know nominations/Four Seasons Total Landscaping press conference
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I've since found two articles that mention the word ridicule but want to avoid
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
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I'm not sure that this is the sort of mention we need to obsessively log.
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address, I said where we were, where they can meet us, and that was that."
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but any other thoughts on this would be great. Many thanks in advance!
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column on 29 November 2020, and was viewed approximately 13,873 times (
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So I think the onus is on us now, how are we gonna do this next year?
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Did you consciously want to hold the conference there from the start?
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The fact is that the vast majority of the reporting on this event by
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Converting most of the 'Public reaction' section to a bulleted list?
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The majority of the references on this page are in what's called
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I agree that not everyone will have laughed at it, but without a
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A good place to start if you're looking for more information is
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P.s. Many thanks for contributing to the discussion instead of
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happen to both redirect to the same article here on Knowledge.
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My understanding of an encyclopedia is a thing that contains
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A picture of the press conference appeared at number 24 on
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Way of decision - How did the press conference come about?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QTRO9MG6z8</ref: -->
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I think the main thing you're after is information on
2028:"PR Lessons from The Fraud Street Run with Jeff Lyons"
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that it received. Also, the term is followed up with "
694:. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at
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583:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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The event drew ridicule and parody on social media…
1716:there has been a small development to the story!
1475:like high school, only everyone has more money).
1151:As can be expected, Twitter was full of ridicule.
2026:Swim, Karen; Michelle, Kane (December 7, 2020).
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
1912:I was about to add this fact into the article:
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1970:but the place that I think it belongs in (the
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1804:Goodin-Smith, Oona (December 1, 2020).
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1308:"Which Four Seasons? Oh, not that one"
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280:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
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1721:Gabbatt, Adam (December 2, 2020).
597:Knowledge:WikiProject Philadelphia
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1072:Really want to avoid a potential
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2255:or feel free to ask me on my
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843:I want this hook to run on
817:magazine, November 10, 2020
741:Knowledge talk:Did you know
733:this nomination's talk page
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
2378:
2244:if you want to experiment.
623:project's importance scale
518:project's importance scale
389:project's importance scale
2312:C-Class politics articles
2021:will be happening again!
1893:shortly after the event.
1811:The Philadelphia Inquirer
1793:The Philadelphia Inquirer
1685:Michael Dukakis tank ride
1087:- Created original text (
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2209:list defined references
1748:Attention collaborators
802:has inspired a virtual
737:the article's talk page
683:has inspired a virtual
1292:
1281:Thanks for your input
707:
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270:This article is rated
75:avoid personal attacks
2111:I've just fixed this
2013:Fraud Street Run 2021
1447:saying about this on
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195:Auto-archiving period
100:Neutral point of view
2170:enclosed in ref tags
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346:WikiProject Politics
105:No original research
1297:The New York Times'
572:Philadelphia portal
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2202:linking to YouTube
2064:Correcting a Quote
1976:created an example
1766:AleatoryPonderings
1610:The New York Times
1313:The New York Times
948:AleatoryPonderings
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2038:December 17,
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1172:Favale Media
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19:This is the
1999:Daniel Case
1864:Daniel Case
1849:Daniel Case
1817:December 3,
1762:Daniel Case
1734:December 2,
1712:Daniel Case
1689:Daniel Case
1653:Daniel Case
1622:Tweet times
1547:statement.
1477:Daniel Case
1469:Frank Zappa
1465:high school
1262:Daniel Case
1213:Daniel Case
1168:PR Newswire
1013:Daniel Case
962:Daniel Case
913:Daniel Case
892:Daniel Case
850:Created by
845:November 29
804:charity run
685:charity run
669:check views
148:free images
31:not a forum
2306:Categories
2231:like this:
2172:like this:
1930:References
1887:just added
1758:User101010
1705:User101010
1670:User101010
1649:to do this
1319:2020-11-12
1204:and parody
1178:2020-11-11
1146:2020-11-11
984:User101010
852:User101010
758:Cwmhiraeth
665:disclaimer
2257:talk page
1545:overcited
1299:article:
1256:happened.
1078:Aftermath
1001:Source: "
808:Source: "
706:Knowledge
655:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2253:see here
2217:wikitext
2186:cite web
2094:contribs
2082:unsigned
1774:NedFausa
1590:unsigned
1535:or not,
1411:citation
1340:ridicule
1336:derision
1209:Pinging
1199:ridicule
1119:ridicule
1111:ridicule
1107:4th edit
1101:3rd edit
1095:2nd edit
1085:1st edit
1074:edit war
1065:ridicule
860:NedFausa
826:Reviewed
754:promoted
360:Politics
351:politics
306:American
301:Politics
242:deletion
199:730 days
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2277:Aluxosm
2261:Aluxosm
2229:reflist
2132:Aluxosm
2117:Aluxosm
2051:Aluxosm
1984:Aluxosm
1895:Aluxosm
1871:Aluxosm
1831:Aluxosm
1824:sealed.
1626:Aluxosm
1624:topic.
1549:Aluxosm
1427:Aluxosm
1344:Aluxosm
1225:Aluxosm
1037:Kingsif
882:), and
876:Aluxosm
835:Comment
778:Comment
718:DYK nom
657:in the
621:on the
516:on the
387:on the
272:C-class
154:WP refs
142:scholar
2159:signed
1847:that.
1708:&
1641:no one
1532:an AFD
1521:Daniel
1449:Usenet
1418:thing.
997:UPDATE
839:tolled
278:scale.
126:Google
1885:I've
1647:meant
1193:humor
1115:humor
1057:humor
898:) at
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2287:talk
2265:talk
2142:talk
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2090:talk
2055:talk
2040:2020
2003:talk
1988:talk
1955:2020
1899:talk
1891:ICON
1875:talk
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1371:talk
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1338:and
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1229:talk
1216:and
1113:for
1041:talk
1017:talk
988:talk
966:talk
958:here
896:talk
888:talk
880:talk
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