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that should be called X, if nobody in the history of
Knowledge has written such an article. Write that article and we can discuss names. It has been noted many times that the professional literature does not discuss epilepsy treatments and weight loss treatments together (vs mentioning one in passing). Wrt Psychologist Guy's comments, I think one of the problems is the hostility shown towards weight loss options, as demonstrated by the carb article calling it a fad diet. Pejorative terms just inflame things unnecessary and there are no weight loss treatments (outside of drugs and surgery) that work long term on a reliably significant number of people, so I think pulling out KD as one option to scorn is hypocritical. The American Heart Association can recommend certain diets all it likes, but there isn't really evidence people choose them and stick to them any more than any other diet. --
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you are going to make those claims. The same source says that a ketogenic diet increases the risk of heart disease and kidney stones. Due to the increased CVD risk, cardiology organizations do not recommend keto. As for your claims about keto improving liver disease, there is not any good clinical evidence for this. Your source does list some papers but there are no good systematic reviews on this because again the evidence is limited and not conclusive. Harvard Health says that keto could be worse for the liver
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websites. But there are serious scientists researching this diet beyond epilepsy and their work is covered by reliable secondary sources. That is what counts on
Knowledge. For example, have multiple articles on cancer research, both on prevention and cure, that cover topics that are a long long way from being proven by systematic reviews of randomised controlled double blind trials. --
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into this page as the accepted medical definition of a ketogenic diet is one that produces elevated levels of blood ketones in non-diabetics. Even if those diets are not as extreme as the ones for treatment of epilepsy, words and phrases change meaning over time and this definition has been used by many peer reviewed articles and should be accepted.
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PG, while you are correct, I don't think there is a need to be quite so harsh on every visitor to this page who has read something promising about this diet in an area outside of epilepsy. There are lots of things one could take a hardline no-evidence/speculation approach to. Lots of very very bright
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substitute for blood glucose as a source of energy." You need to read past the introduction. Also, "Most organs and tissues can use ketone bodies as an alternative source of energy. The brain uses them as a major source of energy during periods where glucose is not readily available. This is because,
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This is not correct. Medical organizations do not recommend the keto diet for weight loss, nor do any health guidelines. The StatPearls source you cited admits that there is no long-term health outcome data on keto and weight loss. The evidence is only short term, much more clinical data is needed if
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There is also a significant amount of emerging research that shows ketogenic diets for weight loss are not a "fad diet" but rather have proven scientific evidence showing that they work also for treatment of fatty liver disease (as one example). The use of a keto diet for weight loss should be merged
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But "effective" to the degree that anything becomes a recommended therapy by multiple organisations is an extremely narrow focus for "can be mentioned at all on
Knowledge". I agree we should not be a dumping ground for every piece of speculative research ever mentioned by nutritionists and wellbeing
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fat content for adults who are on the very most extreme keto diets for weight loss and other goals. Most adults on a "keto" diet plan for 60% to 80% of calories from fat (and then they cheat). Most kids on this diet get 90% of their calories from fat (80% of their food by weight), and cheating has
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about the medical diet for treating epilepsy. The diet for epilepsy eats far more fat than even the highest estimates for the Inuit diet. The Inuit diet is estimated to have included high levels of fat, amounting to 25% to 35% of the food by weight. A typical diet to treat epilepsy is 80% fat by
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This has been discussed many times on this page (see archive). I don't think a name change is likely to win approval because nobody has shown any inclination to write a proper article on e.g. ketogenic diet for weight loss. It's all well and good saying
Knowledge should have an article about X(a)
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Any diet that metabolizes any fat at all is "ketogenic", because ketones are the natural, unavoidable metabolic byproduct of eating fat. Even everyday, normal diets are "ketogenic" at some level. This article is not about weight loss or body building, which produce higher levels of ketones than
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A voluntarily chosen diet for adults hoping to lose weight is not a diet for kids who are at risk of dying from uncontrolled seizures. These are different subjects. Therefore, they get separate articles. If you are jealous because the article about the pediatric epilepsy treatment got written
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people "speculate" on what the planets in our solar system or further afield are made of but good luck persuading the folk editing those articles to accept your "it is just speculation and should be deleted" approach. I think currently the "Other medical applications" section is out of step
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etc but as we all know it isn't. All these organizations are up to date with the latest research and most put out consensus statements. They advise against the keto diet for the general population because it raises ApoB/LDL which we know increases cancer and heart disease risk. There is no
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wise, with what reliable sources say when discussing the ketogenic diet as a medical therapy. We are here to write encyclopaedically about a subject, with weight according to what reliable sources do. We aren't here to restrict information solely to what is in current clinical practice. --
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In the first part of the article it says that ketone bodies are used by the brain but the brain runs on glucose even in ketosis. Even when eating no carbs your body converts some of the protein you eat to glucose in order to power the brain. This is called gluconeogenesis.
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I think we'd need a secondary source focused on the ketogenic diet in a quality journal before we can mention this theory. These are also both nearly 10 years old papers, so if this was a notable thing then we should be able to find current publications mentioning it. --
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Yes, the brain always requires a minimum amount of glucose to function. Also I read the entire article, my critique is about the way it is worded in the head of the article because I feel like it is misleading people to think the brain can run on only ketones, which is
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unlike other organs in the body, the brain has an absolute minimum glucose requirement." (Dhillon KK, Gupta S. Biochemistry, Ketogenesis. 2023 Feb 6. In: StatPearls . Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls
Publishing; 2024 Jan–. PMID: 29630231.)
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I also don't understand why the first paragraph of the article only describes ketogenetic diets as a therapy for epilepsy, when emerging evidence is showing it can be helpful in a variety of conditions, including traumatic brain injury:
1459:" – because "the accepted medical definition", and the original source of the word, was astrology, and only later did it come to mean a disease caused by a particular group of viruses, so they're all the same thing, right?
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Bueno NB, de Melo IS, de
Oliveira SL, da Rocha Ataide T. Very-low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet v. low-fat diet for long-term weight loss: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials. Br J Nutr. 2013 Oct;110(7):1178-87.
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Look at high-quality reliable sources about your subject to identify possible names for the subject – in this case, "ketogenic diet" is the most widely used name for this treatment for epilepsy, and has been for the last
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1470:. Maybe that would stop people from thinking that "their" title is used on the "wrong" subject, or that epilepsy treatments and weight loss are the same thing. In the meantime, the information you seek is at
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Determine whether the common name used by sources is already used for another article – it wasn't, so we used it. Note that this article was named in 2004, a full decade before the "keto" diet trend started.
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Sada N, Lee S, Katsu T, Otsuki T, Inoue T. Epilepsy treatment. Targeting LDH enzymes with a stiripentol analog to treat epilepsy. Science. 2015 Mar 20;347(6228):1362-7. doi: 10.1126/science.aaa1299.
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project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects,
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Some adults follow a high-fat diet as a lifestyle choice, and some other adults follow a high-fat diet for weight loss. There are two main reasons why adults follow a high-fat diet. The word
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Paoli A, Rubini A, Volek JS, Grimaldi KA. Beyond weight loss: a review of the therapeutic uses of very-low-carbohydrate (ketogenic) diets. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2013 Aug;67(8):789.
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first, and thus got this name, then that's entirely understandable but not a reason to think that kids who could die are the same as adults who want to shed a few pounds.
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A quick google search will find the plethora of other papers that does not consider the definition to be a diet used only for epilepsy treatment or 90% fat content.
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Cho CH. Commentary: Targeting LDH enzymes with a stiripentol analog to treat epilepsy. Front Cell
Neurosci. 2015 Jul 7;9:264. doi: 10.3389/fncel.2015.00264.
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Masood W, Annamaraju P, Khan Suheb MZ, et al. Ketogenic Diet. . In: StatPearls . Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls
Publishing; 2024 Jan-. Available from:
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I'm not going to provide an exhaustive list of sources showing this is the accepted scientific definition, but a few for example are listed below, e.g.
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There is no evidence that it is helpful for traumatic brain injury, the link you cited noted no clinical trials have been done, it even says "
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THank you. This article says several studies indicate that STP could regulate glucose energy metabolism and inhibit lactate dehydrogenase.
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has been proposed as a possible mechanism of action of the ketogenic diet for seizures. Lactate dehydrogenase is a component of the
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Bacq, Alexandre; Depaulis, Antoine; Castagné, Vincent; Le Guern, Marie-Emmanuelle; Wirrell, Elaine C.; Verleye, Marc (2024-04).
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The ketogenic diet FAQ is wrong according to published papers and this article should be expanded to include weight loss uses
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has evolved to mean not just the influence of astrology on the body, but also a contagious disease, so we should merge
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related articles on
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Why doesn't this article talk about weight-loss or bodybuilding diets? Bodybuilders call their diets "ketogenic".
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conspiracy. It's dangerous to be promoting misinformation that this diet might help traumatic brain injuries.
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Lots of diets have been called "ketogenic" since 2015. Why did you pick this name for an epilepsy treatment?
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Why doesn't this article talk about Inuit dietary practices? They ate a lot of fat during part of the year.
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contains about 150 grams of fat, 25 grams of protein, and 10 grams of carbohydrates (including fiber). The
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The problem is, why the word "or" should not in be case when the 2 choice available? Heres my choice:
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typically recommends up to 50 grams of total carbohydrates per day, with 50 to 100 grams of protein.
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typical diets, but far lower levels than this medically supervised treatment for epilepsy. The
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diet for weight loss or bodybuilding does. If you are interested in those diets, please read
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If you think this article is about the "wrong" keto diet, please read this FAQ before posting.
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If the ketogenic diet was effective outside of epilepsy then it would be recommended by the
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has evolved to mean a diet which produces measurably elevated levels of blood ketones.
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You could just as easily write "Like it or not, not only the common usage of the term
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there are no human short- or long-term studies evaluating the ketogenic diet for TBI
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Ketones are not used by the brain at all, the brain runs on glucose even in ketosis
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Pick a subject – in this case, an extremely strict dietary treatment for epilepsy.
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Summary: Like it or not, not only the common usage of the term "ketogenic diet",
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lactate shuttle. This inhibition could be pharmacologically achieved using
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diet for epilepsy usually produces 150% of the ketones that even an
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is used to indicate that different adults have different reasons.
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Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review
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weight, which is more than double the amount in the Inuit diet.
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but also the use of that term in scientific literature
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Isn't this the trendy keto diet that's in the news?
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1077:
1074:
1071:
1068:
1067:
1030:
1003:
996:
990:
987:in this section
920:High Importance
820:
799:
739:
736:
733:
730:
729:
703:
696:
676:
606:
603:
600:
597:
596:
570:Medicine portal
568:
563:
561:
541:
535:
506:on Knowledge's
503:
484:
483:
397:
382:
380:
296:possibly useful
292:review articles
265:
264:
259:
236:
121:
116:
115:
114:
91:
61:
12:
11:
5:
2078:
2076:
2068:
2067:
2062:
2057:
2052:
2047:
2042:
2037:
2032:
2027:
2022:
2017:
2012:
2007:
2002:
1997:
1992:
1987:
1982:
1977:
1967:
1966:
1960:
1959:
1877:
1854:
1837:
1836:
1832:
1831:
1830:
1829:
1828:
1772:Inhibition of
1766:
1763:
1762:
1761:
1760:
1759:
1758:
1757:
1756:
1755:
1754:
1753:
1752:
1751:
1629:174.109.243.90
1621:
1587:174.109.243.90
1581:
1578:
1577:
1576:
1558:
1557:
1556:
1555:
1554:
1551:
1510:
1507:
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1490:
1464:
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1441:
1373:
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1310:
1307:
1300:
1292:
1291:
1288:
1285:
1281:
1280:
1272:
1271:
1264:
1256:
1255:
1234:Ketogenic diet
1231:
1219:
1218:
1215:
1203:
1202:
1199:
1198:
1195:
1194:
1187:Low-importance
1183:
1177:
1176:
1174:
1157:the discussion
1139:
1127:
1126:
1124:Low‑importance
1118:
1106:
1105:
1102:
1101:
1094:Top-importance
1090:
1084:
1083:
1081:
1064:the discussion
1046:
1034:
1033:
1031:Top‑importance
1025:
1013:
1012:
1009:
1008:
1005:
1004:
995:
992:
991:
989:
988:
977:
971:
960:
949:
942:
916:
910:French cuisine
894:Top Importance
890:
838:Top Importance
833:
822:
821:
814:
809:
808:
798:
797:
792:
787:
782:
776:
773:
772:
764:
763:
756:Low-importance
752:
746:
745:
743:
731:Food and drink
726:the discussion
709:
708:
692:
680:
679:
677:Low‑importance
674:Food and drink
671:
659:
658:
655:
654:
651:Mid-importance
641:
631:
630:
623:Mid-importance
619:
613:
612:
610:
574:
573:
557:
545:
544:
542:Mid‑importance
530:
518:
517:
511:
500:
486:
485:
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481:
480:
479:
476:
472:
462:
459:
447:
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428:
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405:
399:
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395:
393:
383:
363:
362:
361:
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352:
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300:Ketogenic diet
279:
267:
266:
257:
255:
254:
251:
250:
204:
203:
118:
117:
113:
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107:
102:
93:
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90:
89:
82:
77:
68:
62:
60:
59:
48:
39:
38:
35:
34:
28:
25:Ketogenic diet
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
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2018:
2016:
2013:
2011:
2008:
2006:
2003:
2001:
1998:
1996:
1993:
1991:
1988:
1986:
1983:
1981:
1978:
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1955:
1948:
1935:
1927:
1924:
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1607:Graham Beards
1603:
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1026:
1023:
1019:
1000:
986:
985:project ideas
982:
978:
976:
972:
969:
965:
961:
958:
954:
950:
947:
943:
941:
937:
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926:status up to
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907:
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900:status up to
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649:(assessed as
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372:
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326:TRIP database
323:
320:
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314:
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301:
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288:
283:
282:Ideal sources
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172:ScienceDirect
170:
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156:
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144:
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119:
111:
110:Verifiability
108:
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101:
98:
97:
96:
87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
72:
69:
67:
64:
63:
57:
53:
52:Learn to edit
49:
46:
41:
40:
37:
36:
32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
1934:cite journal
1894:
1890:
1880:
1857:
1841:
1833:
1771:
1768:
1717:, HEART UK,
1642:
1601:
1583:
1566:WhatamIdoing
1561:
1528:
1525:
1522:
1519:
1512:
1480:WhatamIdoing
1448:
1444:
1402:
1396:
1393:
1389:
1386:
1382:
1377:
1375:
1368:
1357:
1340:
1321:
1302:
1297:July 9, 2008
1252:please do so
1241:
1233:
1186:
1142:
1093:
1049:
984:
963:
927:
923:
919:
918:Bring these
901:
897:
893:
892:Bring these
876:Ham and eggs
849:
845:
841:
837:
826:
825:
803:
755:
711:
644:
622:
590:
576:
514:WikiProjects
454:
436:
432:
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310:
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146:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
1786:stiripentol
1620:impossible.
1323:Peer review
999:transcluded
983:. List any
968:select here
936:Burger King
705:Food portal
31:not a forum
1969:Categories
1834:References
1243:identified
451:Inuit diet
315:(limit to
1910:1865-8652
1788:analogs.
1778:astrocyte
1662:WP:WEIGHT
1602:partially
1476:Keto diet
1453:Astrology
1445:influenza
953:WP:Trivia
880:Soy sauce
848:status:
538:Neurology
328:provides
309:provides
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1926:38443647
1918:10960919
1866:26217188
1850:25792327
1440:problem.
1347:Promoted
1328:Reviewed
1069:Epilepsy
1056:epilepsy
1028:Epilepsy
962:Add the
930:status:
904:status:
598:Medicine
533:Medicine
504:FA-class
475:century.
209:Archives
178:Springer
143:Cochrane
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1873:4493394
1287:Process
1189:on the
1096:on the
785:history
758:on the
625:on the
437:extreme
433:average
413:maximum
409:minimum
242:90Â days
1943:|date=
1782:neuron
1309:Listed
1290:Result
1162:Autism
1149:autism
1121:Autism
888:Yogurt
510:scale.
307:PubMed
166:OpenMD
136:PubMed
1806:Colin
1743:Colin
1667:Colin
1495:Colin
1455:into
1236:is a
932:Apple
914:Sugar
884:Sushi
868:Drink
864:Curry
860:Bread
795:purge
790:watch
722:drink
192:Wiley
84:Seek
1954:link
1947:help
1923:PMID
1907:ISSN
1863:PMID
1847:PMID
1822:talk
1794:talk
1732:talk
1651:talk
1633:talk
1611:talk
1591:talk
1570:talk
1535:talk
1484:talk
1428:talk
1409:talk
1284:Date
1151:and
1058:and
955:and
940:Fish
906:Beer
872:Food
856:Beef
805:here
780:edit
720:and
718:food
468:is:
464:The
455:only
377:edit
371:view
343:and
324:The
185:Trip
159:Gale
151:DOAJ
73:and
1914:PMC
1899:doi
1870:PMC
1181:Low
1088:Top
750:Low
617:Mid
346:CDC
199:TWL
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1936:}}
1932:{{
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