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Although I support both moves, I would actually think the case for moving Haakon was stronger than that of Harald, who is a significantly less known king. In any case, I can't really see any reason for a split decision on this issue, since the arguments for or against using bynames for the two kings
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does not actually mention this name in the lead at all, and this may be an invented nomenclature. There is a case for a move to Haakon
Haraldsson but I'd be content with "the Good". I am persuaded by DrKiernan's argument above re Harald Greycloak, about whom I otherwise know little. I like Thhist's
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calls him "Earl Hakon") and Gold Harald were allies, and Haakon convinced Gold Harald to make war on
Grafeld so he could carve out a kingdom of his own. However, Haakon betrayed and murdered Gold Harald, and Harald Bluetooth pardoned him because now his brother was out of the picture and would no
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We're leaning towards consensus on Harald, whereas Haakon would probably be closed if it were just him. I'd like to see if we can develop consensus on both, but after a week, we shouldn't feel prejudiced against a split decision.
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If there is no interest of further comments, then both articles should be moved since it seems barely anybody brought up Haakon at all, and the concern that the nickname isn't brought up on his article is already solved.
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I agree that it is most appropriate to use the byname for the four original
Fairhair dynasty kings (and a few of the later Norwegian kings). I can't really see that there is anything very different between these two, and
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says "Harald II Grey-fur." A king might have several nicknames, so numerals are a useful way to keep them straight. I say down with SOVEREIGN and out with "of Norway." "Harald II Greycloak" would be peachy.
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I'm convinced by Spy's links that "Harald
Greycloak" is way more common in sources than "Harald II of Norway". If you look at the 7 links for "Harald II of Norway", 3 are copies of wikipedia and 1 is
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You forget exceptions like Gorm the Old, Harald
Bluetooth, Sweyn Forkbeard, Cnut the Great, Harald Fairhair, Eric Bloodaxe, and William the Conqueror, and even Sigurd the Crusader.--
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Your searches include result for Harald II Greycloak/Graafell and Harald II of other countries with brief mention of the Norway like Harald
Bluetooth or Harald II Godwinson. See
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in 988, but Otto died in 983). Thus I have modified the article and others, putting Harald's death in 970. If someone has refs that go contrary to that, let them correct me ! --
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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class.
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gives "Harald II Eiriksson". Encarta doesn't have a listing Harald II, but they are also using Roman numerals for
Norwegian kings. They give Haakon I as "Håkon I".
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It does now and it is probably not invented. I am pretty sure "Hákon góði" comes up in the Norse sagas, which are the oldest sources on these early kings. --
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This problem also occurred to me, it also exists between wikipedias (the French version states 970). The date most commonly given seems to be "c. 970" (
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The numeral would not do, for the title anyway. Harald II Greycloak (6) is still less common than Harald
Greycloak (198). There are
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894:) As for references stating 976 as Harald's death, I have only found the Lee M. Hollander translation of the Heimskringla (
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pretty much falls under the same category: they were contemporaries, and they were both commonly known by their bynames.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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354:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
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that use only
Greycloak with no mention of Harald II. Also regnal numbers were unheard of at this time. --
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You must know that "of Norway" is a horrid little Wiki pre-disambiguator stipulated in
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Graphs are unavailable due to technical issues. There is more info on
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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This is unknown. There are different dates on sources.
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641:Scandinavia
630:WikiProject
456:Structure:
41:Start-class
1439:Categories
1293:Hákon góði
1048:Britannica
655:discussion
639:, both in
1163:DrKiernan
1139:Debrett's
1003:Relisted.
647:in 1397.
315:Biography
134:Biography
70:Biography
1418:unsigned
1188:Kauffner
1053:Kauffner
1037:. I get
417:criteria
327:Medieval
319:European
75:Military
1395:In the
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1153:'s and
1098:GoodDay
907:Alþykkr
899:Otto II
840:and on
792:on the
687:on the
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331:C‑class
1361:Thhist
1301:Thhist
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1090:Oppose
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1029:Survey
875:Andres
323:Nordic
262:Norway
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634:North
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