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146:, he is more commonly identified as a Romanticist - his work is far too expressive to illustrate classicism, but far to formulaic to illustrate Romantic era. I would put some Mozart with Classical and Wagner with Romantic (the former is already present on Commons - including his 40th and overture of Don Giovanni; the latter I will be uploading later tonight - the overture to Tristan und Isolde). --
1105:). This is because although I applaud the desire to make the article flow better, I feel strongly that this edit did not make it flow better. More words doesn't necessarily mean better. In addition to the flow difficulty, it introduced a number of inaccuracies, including the beginning disambig., and my least favorite spelling mistake ever, definately. Sorry.
727:
I'm just saying in general, it looks bad to have images stacked on top of each other. For example, 20th c music as it stands right now. I am looking for an image of an interesting 20th century score to replace a couple of the headshots (especially the Philip Glass one, because I question it's status
361:
There seems to be some arbitrary classification of composers going on. The impressionists should not be split up. We have Faure under
Romantic and Debussy and Ravel under 20th c. I think we should incorporate a transitional paragraph at the end of the Romantic section or the beginning of the 20th c.
236:
I would like to say that there is a difference between european jazz and american jazz and that consulting people at say the
University of North Texas ( a lot of those professors were some of the fore runners of jazz music), they would be able to clarify whether or not european and american jazz are
167:
Very few people identify
Beethoven as a Romantic composer. He is generally put in the Classical period. The problem is more that his late works (such as the Ninth Symphony) contain enough proto-Romantic features that they're sort of transitional between the two stylistic periods. I agree that Mozart
517:
Let's not go down this road. Do we have to throw out Duke
Ellington as POP or Miles Davis as Pop as he was in France? When in the history of Jazz did it move from being POP to being "good" jazz, because jazz certainly started out as music played for the buzz of it. Instead let's address the serious
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Some people think only humans produce music, some think many species do. The article should not take sides, but describe that difference of opinion. Since we don't have an accepted definition of music, and cannot communicate about something as complex as music with non-humans animals (unless we can
1064:
Art music and popular music--or
Classical music and popular music--have developed in parallel in many world cultures (not all, though). That the commercial popular music of the present day has replaced the classical music of times past in popularity is a misconception. Only a small percentage of
1008:
Agreed. Poulenc used some impressionistic elements throughout his life, more early than late, but classifying him as an impressionist isn't quite right. (In general I don't like jamming composers into neatly arranged bins anyway; once you start to look at the work in detail there's just too much
503:
I actually have two woefully inadaquite CD shelves (they hold about 300 each), the one on the right is popular and related folk music. The one on the left is classical, "ethnic" and non-popular folk, and jazz music. So I put it with classical music, but I only have experimental and free jazz. The
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They appear next to the sections they depict. The reason I put the left-aligned images above the heading is because it keeps the heading and the body of the text instead of the heading being all the way out at the left margin, then the text starting to the right of the photo. The only problem it
551:
How shall we present dates? I added them to the headers as I feel readers should be able to access the sections of the article by date and not have to scroll through the article checking if each section is the date they are looking for. Any better way to do it besides just under the heading?
223:
On another note, how are we handling this article? We seem to currently have a series of paragraphs about definable periods of music - briefly describing why they were definable. Should we go into the transition between periods and why they occured? The social aspect of history?
899:
We're getting off the subject here. Someone, please, suggest a copyleft song we could use as representitive of the genre. I suggest doing a little searching around on the internet archive, and/or creative commons and/or your favorite indie band's website.
852:
I do not think it should be in a top level section! Heavy-metal is surely just a development of rock, it takes the aggression of rock to its logical (and often pitiful) conclusion... Thus it is surely related to pop music (a cheesy grandmother perhaps).
703:
I think one image per section is enough, especially of these portraits. What do portraits tell people about music? It would be nice to get more performance images, like maybe for 20th c music, a performance of a piece that's more visually interesting.
334:
It seems really awkward to me to write about the past in the present tense. "In the late 19th century, music becomes..." seems awkward compared to "In the late 19th century, music became..." Is this the de facto standard in
Knowledge history articles?
109:. If so, that article would include things such as teaching of music in secondary and post-secondary schools, common curricula in music history, etc. There doesn't seem to be any uniform Knowledge standard in this regard -- e.g. check out
993:, which rejected the impressionistic ideas, and favored a more simple form of music. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is true. I've moved his name, then, away from Debussy modern composers in order to separate that connection.
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I think we should unify the article on past tense--all history writing I'm familiar with does it that way. Certainly we should be consistent. I'm grabbing books off my shelf at random and they're all done that way. Other opinions?
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The article says, "...in relation to humans..." I say, "As opposed to...?" Unless there is a race of beings out there that I do not know about that recognizes and produces music I believe there is something wrong with that statement.
1068:
It seems a tad
Eurocentric, though western popular music has certainly overshadowed the popularity of a lot of native music all over the world (not necessarily part of the local classical traditions, though possibly so in some
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Europeans in, say, 1750 went to the opera--probably the same percentage as went in 2000. Most of them knew popular music: dances, folk songs and such, more of which survives as you get closer to the present day.
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section describing the impressionists. In fact, it's a major flaw that the word "impressionist" is not in either the main
Romantic or 20th c. articles! I'd do it myself, but I'm too tired to write clearly. –
1061:, c. 880, that records the attempts of the clergy to keep the people from singing Gregorian chant in the style of their popular songs. I tried to get at this in the lead line to the medieval music section.
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The organization is (IMHO) weak. Why musical history of India, Persia, China, and Europe, but not elsewhere (Africa, the australian aborginiees)? Some explinatino about the choice of these four should be
206:
Very possibly - but what would go at history of music? I would suggest that, until recently, genre and region of music were fundamentally connected. This has been subverted through global relatively
280:. Of course, we do not know whether birds take functionless pleasure in this music in a similar manner to the way in which humans are stimulated by music. I do not believe one could argue it is not
935:
This article has a lot of featured article potential - I speak with some knowledge of the subject :). Here's a list of improvements that I would like someone more knowledge of the subject to add:
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flaw in this article: the missing word Africa. Jazz is based the successful application of
European instrumentation onto an African sensibility. It's a great shame that this article is dying.
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It's a mistake to assume that just because it has not survived, there was no popular music in the middle ages, though the popular music then was probably more what we would term
673:
Sounds great. We may have to trim information from all the sections eventually, and it is great to check if information in this general article is lacking in the specific ones.
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genres such as pop and jazz. Still, jazz has its styilistic roots in existing region-based genres such as folk and classical. Even today, jazz is primarily performed in the
442:
I second this view, and think jazz would most comfortably fit at the top level, say between folk music and popular music in the outline. What does anyone else think?
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Category:Jazz is a subgenre of
Category:Musical genres (distinct from popular and classical music). Popular music lists Jazz a few subgenres, but also indicates
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and History of music. After all, grammar-wise, shouldn't they mean the same thing (Canadian history vs history of Canada)? Could someone please enlighten me?
1192:
Why does the article go from Classical to Folk music skipping the popularity of solo piano music in the 19th century? No mention of it all in the article. hi
879:
First of all, I think you to are forgetting that this page was the collaboration of the week and more so a work in progress than the average wikipedia page.
403:) but these few should not be allowed to stain all of Jazz - they are ultimately popular musicians with Jazz influence. The jazz-classical fusion of
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very important and influential, affecting the sound of almost all rock and pop afterwards (such as the now widespread prevalence of power chords).
1000:
Poulenc wrote some early impressionist works, and used impresisonist gestures, but no, he is not generally considered an impressionist composer.
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01:03, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC) : Eh, it's a little cheesy. I don't think it really represents heavy metal. It's more a mockery of '80s hair bands. –
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Hip-hop shouldn't be grouped in with disco, funk, salsa, and soul. If Punk Rock is justified in its own section, I feel Hip-hop should be too.
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really causes is that "edit section" doesn't include the photo, but really, isn't it more important that the finished product looks good? –
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Why are Disco, funk, hip hop, salsa, and soul lumped together? Surely they're at least as distinct from each other as jazz is from blues.
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We definitely need to trim some of the longer sections, like renaissance music. I was just about to post a comment about that, in fact. –
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artists cannot be described as "popular" stylistically, commercially or in their followers. True jazz belongs to the core of music as
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On my monitor the Philip Glass image appears in 20th century classical music, making it appear that section has three images.
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redirects to it -- although perhaps that area could benefit from a structuring similar to that in the music history articles.
949:
The dates given for the history of European classical music do not match up to the articles they cite. This should be fixed.
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I believe there was a discussion of this on the COTW page, where we all voted for the article; consensus seemed to be that
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small amount of older jazz I have (Cole Porter, Raymond Scott, and, if I had any, Ella Fitgerald etc) I put on the right.
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I'm taking this out for now because I'm not entirely sure what it means: "The popularity of the classical music of the
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only mentions that many performers were also classically trained (and that bosa nova was inflounced by impressionism).
218:- one could say that these two should be considered the same in terms of musical regions (apart from aboriginal music).
946:
The introductory section on European classical music only has the timeine. I need some kind of overarching explination
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They were moved when new sound clips were added. If they were in their correct place, they would appear correctly –
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simply because it has function, national anthems have function. Similarly, could it not be called music because
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as music, or is it a means of showing solidarity and lobbying players? One does have to ask: what is music? --
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This could be written up in the article (not sure where, though--in the lead? under the classical heading?
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is essentially a series melodious sounds produced by a non-human species which is interpreted by humans as
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Whoa, you are correct. Looks like one of us needs to do some writing about impressionism soon. Â :-)
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I agree. It's POV, as well, saying metal is more important than the rest of the rock sub-genres. –
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837:. If you guys think that song is representative of heavy metal, I'll add it to this article.
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I've just added 3 full length songs to this article. There are plenty more to be found at
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Some sections are four times (or more) as long as others. Why can't they have two?
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music), and the solution is not urgently needed, I propose we find a better place,
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I suggest that the section about prehistoric music is moved into its main article
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There was no classical music in the middle ages; what is usually referred to as "
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was an Impressionistic composer. In fact, his own Knowledge article links him to
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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would make a good COTW candidate, considering its basically nonexistent) --
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and Haydn are more representative of the Classical-period "core style". --
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as "fair use" since that seems to be the whole image, not part of it). –
431:(or art music) along with classical traditions and other world musics. --
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134:- feel free to add more songs to this article using the listen template.
1050:" is the European music of the common practice period after about 1600.
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It does once in the main paragraph, but that is still pretty pathetic.
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be popular - a few faux-Jazz pseudo-musicians pose under this genre (
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Why don't you add information about these other important genres.
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The problem is more using the Ninth Symphony as the example. –
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The introduction needs to be expanded and made more relavant
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Unfortunately, I felt compelled to revert this edit (diff
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Shouldn't the images go in the sections they depict?
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music, which would still disallow much communication
288:do not intend it as such? Do football fans intend
105:referred to the academic field which studied the
82:I never really understood the difference between
967:Agreed, and I'm also unqualified/uninterested.
665:. I'll do this tomorrow if no-one objects. --
8:
1057:today. There's an interesting document by
810:Heh heh. A side effect of COTW, I guess. –
89:(PS if there is such a difference, perhaps
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964:Because the article is a work-in-progress.
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1147:does this artical even mention Africa? --
1128:Please sign your posts on talk pages per
1026:has gradually been replaced by forms of
970:The templates also need to be corrected.
1130:Knowledge:Sign your posts on talk pages
486:distinguishes itself from Jazz twice.
482:is sometimes distinguished from jazz.
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
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931:Shaping this into a featured article
829:I found a CC-by-SA heavy metal song
142:Beethoven is not a good example of
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407:, the jazz experimentalism and
186:This article appears to be the
79:♥ Please excuse my ignorance ♥
1009:gray to allow rigid taxonomy)
253:13:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
75:Music history/History of music
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578:History of European art music
237:differenet from each other.
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357:Classification of composers
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1098:Revision by Universal1300
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188:History of music by genre
182:History of music by genre
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981:Polenc an Impressionist?
893:22:36, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
835:Scarey Devil Heavy Metal
803:01:23, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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484:European classical music
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1157:I don't know, does it?
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1018:From the lead paragraph
825:Heavy metal suggestions
777:Elvis appears in Jazz.
566:That's just great! --
391:(good) Jazz music to
42:of past discussions.
18:Talk:History of music
799:Ah, too many cooks!
132:Knowledge:Sound/list
194:, suggested by the
170:Marnen Laibow-Koser
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1198:comment added by
1002:Stirling Newberry
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1194:— Preceding
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1030:, including
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646:Contemporary
636:20th century
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520:User:Donohue
479:
453:What do the
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1188:Piano music
1024:middle ages
910:—Preceding
667:Eleassar777
596:Renaissance
568:Eleassar777
524:—Preceding
397:Norah Jones
245:129.120.4.1
239:—Preceding
111:Art history
36:This is an
1132:. Thanks!
1055:folk music
425:Latin jazz
419:including
399:, back to
126:More music
1078:Antandrus
1011:Antandrus
616:Classical
444:Antandrus
376:Antandrus
350:Antandrus
274:bird song
119:Antandrus
67:Archive 2
61:Archive 1
1196:unsigned
1159:Hyacinth
1134:Hyacinth
1076:Cheers,
995:Bratsche
975:Hyacinth
951:→Raul654
912:unsigned
902:→Raul654
891:Hyacinth
866:flamurai
843:flamurai
839:→Raul654
812:flamurai
801:Hyacinth
786:flamurai
779:Hyacinth
772:Hyacinth
757:flamurai
745:Hyacinth
730:flamurai
718:Hyacinth
706:flamurai
686:flamurai
675:Hyacinth
626:Romantic
586:Medieval
561:Hyacinth
554:Hyacinth
526:unsigned
522:1.2.08
506:Hyacinth
492:Hyacinth
467:Hyacinth
423:and the
417:bebopers
364:flamurai
337:flamurai
321:Hyacinth
272:Well...
241:unsigned
212:Americas
200:Hyacinth
196:see also
158:flamurai
136:→Raul654
113:, where
95:Dmcdevit
1120:Hip-hop
1090:Tlogmer
991:Les Six
961:How so?
606:Baroque
409:freedom
309:through
39:archive
1172:B14709
1149:Vehgah
1084:Genres
1069:cases)
1059:Notker
1038:, and
882:Metal
461:, and
415:, the
290:chants
216:Europe
173:(talk)
943:given
858:Quill
855:Oldak
547:Dates
436:Quill
433:Oldak
330:Tense
313:about
297:Quill
294:Oldak
282:music
229:Quill
226:Oldak
151:Quill
148:Oldak
16:<
1204:talk
1176:talk
1036:jazz
920:talk
831:here
534:talk
488:Jazz
455:jazz
389:MOST
383:Jazz
278:song
249:talk
214:and
1111:emi
1107:Mak
1042:."
429:art
411:of
393:not
208:new
1206:)
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853:--
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