320:. Here are some questions to think about: Would it be helpful for this article to flesh out the primary music cultures of the world according to the chronological history-of-civilization model? If so, how would that be best accomplished? Could all of these geographically distinct traditions be discussed in a more blended manner, according to time rather than place? Might the history of these musics be better handled within the main articles, rather than together in this one? It just seems to me that this article would be better served by going in one of two directions: either (1) by discussing the history of music in a more broadly-conceived fashion, paying attention to how all music cultures developed and interacted over time (rather than one by one), or (2) by leaving historical discussion to the articles for each music culture. This is just a suggestion, and the length of this paragraph rather deceptively conceals the fact that I have almost no time to devote to this project. What do you all think?
178:" In ancient Greece, mixed-gender choruses performed for entertainment, celebration and spiritual reasons. Instruments included the double-reed aulos and the plucked string instrument, the lyre, especially the special kind called a kithara. Music was an important part of education in ancient Greece, and boys were taught music starting at age six. Greek musical literacy created a flowering of development; Greek music theory included the Greek musical modes, eventually became the basis for Western religious music and classical music. "
551:) that featured the distinction Classical/Folk/Popular and had separate sections for each of these "types" (btw, the term 'Folk music' is a bit faulty, since it is so-to-speak Anglocentric and its meaning is ambiguous which might somehow explain why it was considered to be "20th c. music"; "History of Traditional music" should have been the term instead). However, since these 'Folk' and 'Popular' sections referred only to developments during the 20th c., they were eventually copy-pasted to the '
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are concise to a degree that perhaps threatens their helpfulness to the reader--, the main musical traditions of the world are each mentioned in brief in a more or less chronologically static way (except of course for the
Western music history section and the Greek music section--perhaps there were others). Granted, this may reflect the need for further contributions. I propose that this issue may be symptomatic of a larger problem:
354:, but should give the average reader a good summary of what the music was like, without needing to click into a lot of different articles to find out what all the jargon means. The best way to describe what the music sounds like is to provide music samples. We already have a few, but it would be great if we could find one for each section. If anyone reading this knows where to find a sample, and wants to help, see
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I think the catagories for pop music are incorrect. The broader genres should be listed, while the subgenres should not. The following is what I consider a list of the genres of pop: Jazz, Blues, Country, R&B(funk & soul are sub genres of R&B), Rock (r&r, heavy metal, punk), Hip-hop,
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What we need is a standard for how much emphasis each region (and/or era) should receive. Typically, we allow more room for more recent history, less room for more ancient history. We also need to allow for globalization: towards the end of the 20th century, music is increasing being shared between
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After considering a response to the nauseated poster in the POV thread, I realize I have an issue of my own. I am beginning to doubt whether a broad, all-encompassing history of all musics is necessary, possible, or even desirable. After the prehistorical and ancient music sections--both of which
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It is very important for this article to be balanced and comprehensive, however there is virtually no information available describing
African music and its influence. Africa itself is only mentioned once, in the first paragraph, as the place where music may have first originated. If Africa is the
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I think we need to find a better source (or a better summarizing of the existing source). This reasoning is weak - humans could have developed music independently in different places, as we have with so many other things. This is probably moot, as human music is likely far older than 50,000 years
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The article nauseatingly eurocentric. The article essentially includes a paragraph on every single style of
Western music, and then contributes a sentence or a link to every other civilization. Great. (And no, it's not because Western music is more "influential." No one in the non-western world
577:, either 1) leave this article exactly as it is, or 2) restore the 'Folk' section (which is to be renamed to 'Traditional' and "globalized" so as to include most of the regional traditions studied by Ethnomusicologists) and a part (or all or a synopsis) of the 'Popular' section, and
702:"History of classical music traditions" is an existent article and moving it to History of Music would provide both a more commonly used search term and a more commonly used name. Also, an interesting discussion was raised at TAFI on the subject, more rationale can be seen there.
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to write. If you're expert enough on the musics of the "non-western world" to know that no one in Japan, China, or Korea has ever heard of
Beethoven, but yet has extensive knowledge of Britney Spears, then by all means further enlighten us with your expertise, and start writing.
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This article has too many "External links". Three or four is sufficient, possibly 5 with consensus on longer articles, but when there are 19 references and 14 external links, that is just too many. I have not been involved in this article, so a discussion would be better than
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What bugs me about this article is how it devotes a huge section to
Western music, and then has only a few sentences on other types of music. If there's anyone out there who knows anything about the history of any type of Oriental music, please, please edit this
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I don't understand like why it says "Eras of music" then has modern eras on the right but then it only goes from prehistoric to ancient to biblical (what is diff?) to "early music" it's very very confusing. I think we may have to restructure the whole article!
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From the first paragraph: "Since all peoples of the world including the most isolated tribal groups, have a form of music, scientists conclude that music must have been present in the ancestral population prior to the dispersal of humans around the world."
117:& Electronic/Dance. There are other genres that I am not sure about. Reggae for instance could be considered a board genre or you could lump it as a sub-genre of rock. Regardless, all of the broad genres should represent the larger musical movements.
146:, that they move everything under "folk music" from here to there, and replace it here with a short section and a {mainlink} to them. Hopefully some of them will come here to facilitate, and continue the discussion should it prove contentious. Thanks :) -
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is what the article looked like four years ago, for example, just picking one at random. I haven't picked through to figure out why folk and popular music vanished from the article, but wouldn't it be better to add them back, and make it better?
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We now have in front of us an entire article about the history of music, but it's one that doesn't make a single mention of blues or jazz, or the countless other genres that they begot. This seems like a rather conspicuous omission.
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it since it was the "collaboration of the week" back in the
Knowledge Jurassic period sometime like 2005 or so. (I probably wrote a bunch of the stuff on Renaissance music.) Not sure how to handle this. It's a colossal subject.
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I, too, don't have a lot of time to work on this article -- I'm working on so many other things. I'll add this article to my list of things to do, but I can't guarantee I'll be working on it a lot. Anyone else have any suggestions?
267:. I'm going to change the tag. Although the article has changed since you tagged it, I think it still could use some improvement for around-the world music. It would be really great if we had music samples of folk music worldwide. -
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article on the history of music, It should give enough information about the history of music in each place and in each period, and how they developed over time, to make the average reader satisfied. It also shouldn't use too much
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I'm going to be watching it like a hawk. There are a lot of very opinionated people in this area of interest on both sides of the field. Most people who edit this article seem to be on the 'classical' side of things, though.
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off entirely (or, for that matter, why things like "folk music" are considered to be exclusively "twentieth century music"). Is anyone else watching this page? It's on my watchlist, but I haven't actually
196:" 'Classical European music' is a somewhat broad term, referring to music produced in, or rooted in the traditions of, European art, ecclesiastical and concert music, particularly between 1000 and 1900. "
411:. If a section is too large we move material down into the lower level article. If a section is too small we gather more material up from the lower level article. You can't fail. This much is obvious.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20150402105719/http://dasa.baua.de/nn_35984/sid_2C8A99B3F31A58C62BBE3312986DC568/nsc_true/de/Presse/Pressematerialien/Sonderausstellung_20Macht_20Musik/Schamanen-Musik.pdf
631:; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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It would really help if in the first part of the sections on
Baroque and Classical era's there was some indication of dates. For someone unversed in classical music this is a serious omission.
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Now, whether that split on 5-6-06 was justified or not is another matter. The distinction
Traditional/Folk vs. Classical/Historical vs. Commercial/Popular is to be found in articles such as
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I have moved this article to 'History of classical music traditions', because that is exclusively what this article focuses on. There is actually not a single mention of the existence of
142:(i'm not an active participant, just an bypasser. But i do agree with the nomination comments, that this article could benefit by becoming less modern/western-centric. I suggested at
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The history of music in each area should have equal coverage, though whether that means we should shorten all of the sections on
Western music, I'm not sure. Since this is
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In the Music in ancient civilizations section, there were a couple of sentences that were also in the Greek section. I removed them so that we don't waste space:
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probobly knows who
Beethoven or Mozart even are. They probobly know more about Britney Spears than they do about Baroque style). How about a little equality. -
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I had no idea those had even ever existed. Yes, for the love of all that is good and holy, put them back. Why on earth were they deleted in the first place?!
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http://dasa.baua.de/nn_35984/sid_2C8A99B3F31A58C62BBE3312986DC568/nsc_true/de/Presse/Pressematerialien/Sonderausstellung_20Macht_20Musik/Schamanen-Musik.pdf
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Since that section of this article is about the history of music and not the history of European music I think the disambiguation page is appropriate.
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I deleted one "External link" thinking it was bot-added --- but it was bot-rescued. There are still too many and I will just wait for some dialog.
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those sections, not because of "nauseating eurocentrism". It's a volunteer project, 68.43, and people write what they know, and what they
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as COTW, and another editors bold copying of the content across, i've added split tags to the modern music sections in this article.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
397:. We can balance this article. It doesn't really matter if it's primary organization is geographical or chronological. This is a
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Dunkelweizen, I think both of your suggestions are laudable. I like your comparison to the "history-of-civilization model",
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anyway, but i don't have a source to reference on that, so meanwhile cleaning up the existing paragraph would be nice. --
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Also... I didn't change anything there, but this sentence in the subsection Europe in the section Classical traditions:
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birthplace of music and home to thousands of cultures with over a billion people between them, why is it neglected so?
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regions. Genre replaces region as a primary organizing principle. Those are the issues. They can all be solved. ----
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547:(outdent) For the record, (as everyone above has pointed out) there have been past versions of the article (like
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It's a shameful omission. I've added some material on Africa. I hope other readers will add more into it.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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563:, the page-move was a really good idea if it was meant to reflect the present condition of the article.
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503:(5 June 2006). I do not quite understand why the entire twentieth century (of all types of music) was
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Finally, in the India subsection in the Classical Traditions section, I found the following typo:
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https://web.archive.org/web/20061129191825/http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/russell/
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)
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by my removing the bottom 10, someone replacing them, and then appropriate
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Blues, the last common ancestor of all post-classical genres of music
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Provided sources/citations for homophonic comments as requested.
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and I don't see why this shouldn't be the case here, as well.
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has tortured the English quite a bit. Anyone want to fix it?
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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that the premise of this article needs to be reconsidered
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gives a bit of an idea of what we're talking about here.
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I think a better tag for what you described would be
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move the article back to the 'History of music'. --
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338:Civilization#Development of early civilizations
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190:" , the classical music of India "
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380:Dunkelweizen
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322:Dunkelweizen
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187:and removed
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119:Georgiapatio
115:
78:
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718:Samuelson's
629:Don't panic
567:Dance music
280:68.43.58.42
203:Gavintlgold
172:is better.
36:This is an
941:Report bug
515:Antandrus
467:Antandrus
299:Antandrus
133:nomination
924:this tool
917:this tool
433:Page move
237:John_Abbe
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
1010:contribs
1002:Molloyyy
998:unsigned
930:Cheers.—
793:unsigned
772:DanJazzy
737:Ghmyrtle
680:unsigned
637:non-free
549:this one
331:article!
255:Hyacinth
215:Greenwyk
148:Quiddity
103:Hyacinth
93:Foxjwill
75:Disambig
824:my edit
528:Zazaban
479:Zazaban
447:Zazaban
290:written
251:WP:NPOV
79:In the
39:archive
1027:Krehel
981:Otr500
966:Otr500
758:B14709
518:(talk)
510:edited
470:(talk)
352:jargon
302:(talk)
672:Dates
505:split
16:<
1051:talk
1031:talk
1006:talk
985:talk
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776:talk
762:talk
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731:See
722:talk
688:talk
659:talk
587:talk
579:then
569:and
532:talk
501:here
483:talk
462:Here
451:talk
423:talk
406:Main
384:talk
358:and
294:want
135:for
958:BRD
898:RfC
868:to
858:to
848:to
838:to
735:.
395:yes
347:the
245:POV
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