1050:. There is no coherent consensus on the relationship between homosexuality and intersex (the latter being a very diverse class of conditions), the removal is correct. Using "genetic male" for AIS is standard terminology. Because the concept of sex does truly become difficult to categorize for conditions like AIS (why 'genetic male' is used for clarity instead of just 'male'), the idea of 'homo'-sexuality also becomes difficult to define for the same reasons. I am not aware of any sources that explores that issue in detail. The added references do not support the generalized claim that "Numerous studies have shown higher rates of same sex attraction in intersex people".If 'Meyer-Bahlburg also discussed sexual attraction by individuals with..., 5α-Reductase deficiency...stating that sexual attraction towards females in individuals with these conditions was facilitated by 'prenatal exposure to and utilization of androgens'" then how could that be relevant to homosexuality? 5α-Reductase deficiency affect *males*, if they are attracted to females then that is heterosexuality. I can't verify what Meyer-Bahlburg actually wrote behind the paywall to see where you made your mistake.
1072:(2011) on the relationship between conditions that influence the prenatal endocrine environment (a subset, perhaps a very small one, of all intersex conditions) and sexual orientation, you can see the language is cautious and highlights many caveats in the interpretation of studies that it examines. Nowhere do you see strong claims about homosexuality enrichment in population with atypical prenatal endocrine exposure, precisely because sexual orientation is a complex trait with many factors. I think it would be fine to describe which numbers suggest that there *might* be a link between prenatal exposures and sexual orientation for *specific conditions*, but it the relevance to the entire class of intersex people doesn't line up with
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and the article itself describes how the idea of prenatal androgen in exposure in humans and its effect on sexuality is not something that should be considered as established. Further, there are many misconceptions about intersex people not necessarily being either male or female (see Sax); homosexuality would have to be explained in cases of 'true' intersex individuals. The claims of the
Australian survey suggest that 52% of people who identify as intersex are non heterosexual would have to be contrasted with the much much lower prevalence in the general population. Very little is clearly established here.
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Intersex is a biological status related to physical sex characteristics, typically a medical fact, and requires reliable sourcing. Intersex people may be man, woman, non-binary, or agender (genderless), e.g. Herculine Barbin. They may perceive being intersex as related to their sex, or not, or as a
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There is of course little need to do all this since the quote from Meyer-Bahlburg in the article says clearly 'It is too early to conclude that there is a pre- or perinatal hormonal contribution to the development of homosexuality'...so then why does the section start with the claim that ""Numerous
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The article currently claims "Numerous studies have shown higher rates of same sex attraction in intersex people"- suggesting that higher prevalence of homosexuality (how much?) is seen the class of intersex people. This is a gross over-generalization. The citations are specifically about (NC) CAH
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My understanding of that section, which can be changed if someone edits the whole page, is it is referring to the LGBTQ community, but specifically emphasizing those who are intersex. Perhaps it should be changed to LGBTQ, or even LGBT, but I'd to have some consensus on here before I make that
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about whether intersex should be added to the LGBT Wikiproject! (there's a lot of dated stuff there, but its still interesting to know what people were saying back then). The consensus then was to add them within the project scope and that has remained to this day. For other debates on the
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pages are separate is that not all intersex people consider themselves part of the LGBTQ+ community, as it notes in the opening of this page: "They are substantially more likely to identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) than endosex people." In fact, there was a debate
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Not every intersex person identifies as being a member of the LGBT community. Merging the two pages together is not only more than likely gonna be extremely controversial, but also may make the article longer than is necessary. There's a Main
Article part in the article for a reason.
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This was an excessive removal. You are not here to judge inclusion of sources according to particular ideological frameworks. Editing with reference to the actual sources would have been a better alternative, and reference to Sax is both irrelevant and
1020:. Clinician views on the 'true' sexes of individuals with intersex conditions has gone through many historical and well documented shifts with an impact on what might be meant by female or male. For example the cited author,
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aims to improve the quality of articles dealing with gender studies and to remove systematic gender bias from
Knowledge. If you would like to participate in the project, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the
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the merger for the same reasons others have cited, these are topics which have a defined area which overlaps, but neither of the circles which encompasses each of the topics is wholly inset within the other.
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article but it gets full coverage here. The only thing I would change is that the title here seems rather clunky and just sounds a bit "off". If anybody can think of a better name then that might be helpful.
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1534:. That page has a section titled "LGBT and LGBTI" which I think is the proper place for this information - I believe the relevant parts of this article should be moved to that one.
1469:- we've been over this many times. There's an overlap between intersex and LGBT topics, but they're still exclusive. Not all intersex people consider themselves LGTBT (or LGBTI) -
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I don't know where your claims of ideology are coming from. You are incorrect on a great deal here reflecting common misconceptions about intersex. You are not familiar with the
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Hi everyone! I was wondering why there is an "intersex" page as well as a "intersex and LGBT" page. Is there a reason they are separate? Is there a way we could combine them?
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1513:- This article is about how intersexuality relates to other LGBT identities. It has a clear purpose and enough material to be its own article.
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is for intersex. Yeah some intersex people may not identify as LGBTQIA but again the I is for intersex. Intersex is inherently LGBTQIA.
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Your questions make sense, and there are relevant discussions on the
Intersex talk page about why it makes sense to have this page
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The Meyer-Bahlburg cites are quite old as well (1990); not a terrible amount has changed since then though. You can see a more
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Care has been taken to limit the interrelationships between LGBT pages and intersex pages because of these issues.
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LGBTI is NOT an acronym -- a pronounceable word like NATO -- but an intialism, which is not a word, like IBM. ~~
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defines sex by reference to chromosomes. I have edited the material, and added a citation further down the page.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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1530:- I agree that not all intersex people identify as LGBT, which is why I think the correct page to keep is
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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intersection of intersex and LGBTQ+ people, sometimes with language we would now see as dated, see
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on
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on
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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I agree. That's what my comment was saying, although I should have said *more* directly that I
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it is a published in a peer reviewed journal, has been cited 351 times by scholar and meets
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https://web.archive.org/web/20131110023525/http://www.bodieslikeours.org/pdf/xmarks.pdf
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Some intersex people are LGBT, while others are heterosexual, cisgender, or binary.
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studies have shown higher rates of same sex attraction in intersex people"" ?
1338:(in 2023). There's probably even more discussions, but this is MOST of them.
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I have to strongly disagree. This current page should be its OWN topic.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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59:LGBT studies
40:WikiProjects
1586:DanielRigal
1567:Per above.
1515:Anywikiuser
1452:Per above.
1349:was created
1330:(in 2021),
1318:(in 2020),
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1026:Trankuility
566:edit to see
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378:Collaborate
372:edit to see
325:To-do list:
279:WikiProject
1640:Categories
1454:Des Vallee
1357:Guidelines
1109:change. --
1048:WP:SOURCES
985:Report bug
855:Report bug
578:Riot grrrl
453:Notability
110:discussion
1536:Turtletwo
1429:The I in
1250:(2016) ,
1040:Sax paper
968:this tool
961:this tool
838:this tool
831:this tool
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667:sociology
623:Sociology
547:Translate
1598:I would
1581:Intersex
1569:Rob Kelk
1532:Intersex
1150:Intersex
974:Cheers.—
844:Cheers.—
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745:Leekindj
392:Copyedit
277:. This
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1528:Support
1431:LGBTQIA
1427:Support
1078:Maneesh
1056:Maneesh
1002:Maneesh
878:my edit
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367:Cleanup
229:on the
30:C-class
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561:Update
417:Expand
349:Assess
36:scale.
1044:WP:OR
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533:Stubs
520:Split
506:Photo
442:Merge
102:LGBTQ
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