74:
53:
189:
84:
179:
158:
775:- I would strongly suggest they are kept separate. The collapsing of the two is fraught with multiple issues well beyond the capacity of a few wikipedia editors to resolve. The higher education system in Australia is collapsing and the asian studies departments in most universities have gone, but the notion that oriental studies is even connected is problematic, however well intentioned the suggested merge is.
22:
1202:
often pejorative sense, so to mix the two would be to mix an entirely modern and untarnished discipline with an essentially historic one that has been impugned, which would in turn color the sense of the former. Most university departments that used to be called 'Oriental
Studies' have renamed themselves, making a clean break from the past, for these very reasons.
274:"Asian studies" a redirect to "Oriental studies," 3) move this article to Asian studies (over redirect), and 4) revise the lead of the article and edit for consistency. "Oriental studies" would then be a redirect to the merged article "Asian studies." If there general agreement to do this, I will complete this move on July 10, 2010.
1179:
Why? What about the problems mentioned above, and in previous discussions? No proposal that fails to address (or even recognise) these deserves to succeed. By "local consensus" you presumably mean "people who actually know something about the subject, and have looked at both articles". Both this nom
745:
says that articles should be about concepts, not names, so these pages should be located at the same place. I'm proposing that "Asian studies" be the destination, since my sense is that "Oriental studies" is becoming an increasingly unfashionable term with racist connotations, but that might just be
1201:
Oriental
Studies is not just Asian studies, but Asian and Middle Eastern Studies, and it's purview often extended as far west as Morocco, so these are not interchangeable terms. Also 'Oriental Studies' has become outdated because it has been colored by the way in which 'Orientalist' has taken on an
273:
be merged. As both articles note: "in recent years the newer term 'Asian studies' has mostly replaced 'Oriental studies'." The content of "Oriental studies" is more comprehensive ("Asian studies" is a stub) so I propose to: 1) Add the content of the "Asian studies" article to this article, 2) make
865:
Varying uses for broad geographic terms can be discussed in the context of an article describing the overall agreement of which areas definitely fall within that designation, and which areas are only occasionally described as falling with that designation, for certain
1012:
Not to restart a fire from the previous merge discussion but given how small the Asian studies article is and that the lion's share of its material is already covered in this article, and that there is a discussion of the difference in the terms, I think merging it
367:
Multiple congresses of orientalists were held in various locations, and orientalists from all over the world gave presentations of their fieldwork in linguistics, ethnography, and other fields, we should really create separate articles about each congress and their
346:
Yes you removed almost all the lead, which does not need citations, and whose content is amply cited below. Then you added a very POV sentence, badly expressed. What exactly are your issues here? Please explain on talk before making further changes.
1151:
a merge on the merits (I'd strongly favor making "Asian studies" the ultimate title, even if that means merging that page to this one and then moving it), since the process remains unreformed, I'll be surprised if the result here is any different.
311:
I do not support the merger, as the term 'Asian
Studies' is only used in mainly US institutions. Like the article states the term 'Asian' is for all intent and purpose no different than 'Oriental' and a merger would just look like a US-centric
832:
applies, an argument has that has stood uncontested for over 3 months. Given that they argue that the topics are distinct; that would mean that there is no policy argument for the merge. The equivalence of the subjects is also contested at
1017:
this article is worthwhile. It is effectively just a list of branches that does not provide new information. My question is not about terminology (call it whatever you like) but about removing duplicated/superfluous material.
1042:
is about the contemporary field, mainly dealing with contemporary Asia. Actually," The majority of this content is already present on the older and more established page" doesn't seem true to me - there's not much overlap.
746:
my perspective given my geographical background. If necessary, we can separate out the discussion on what the title should be, but that shouldn't muddy the need for a merge.
626:
622:
608:
504:
500:
486:
1313:
247:
237:
855:
It's not enough for there to be a disputed minor distinction, which I'd expect given that academic topics on race inevitably have sensitive terminology. Per
331:
I have just removed an entire paragraph of what seems to be uncited personal research, unless you CAN cite PLEASE keep your personal ideology to yourself.
1318:
868:
Both articles currently define the fields the same way—as the study of Asia—so if they are to be kept separate, we'd need to establish a distinction
1308:
1298:
140:
130:
1038:
is becoming an outdated term, or about the study of Asia's past - often very distant past, and the page is mainly about the history, while
1303:
212:
202:
163:
604:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
805:, I think that's premature. There's been only one response, which did not provide a policy-based rebuttal to the merge rationale.
1072:
588:
106:
1293:
400:
390:
1280:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
940:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
921:" - do we say this somewhere? Both terms are used everywhere, with differences, and with Asian studies now more common.
913:
There are sufficient differences in usage, & the 2 articles are I think adequately inter-linked. It is not true that"
395:
1143:
above. In my view, the earlier proposal failed because of flaws with
Knowledge's merge proposal system, which allowed a
669:
547:
405:
33:
97:
58:
625:
to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
503:
to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
1257:
1221:
1062:
982:
861:
A term with many related meanings should be presented as an article on the broadest understanding of the term
829:
742:
717:
660:
574:
538:
440:
1115:
1076:
856:
1207:
644:
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
632:
522:
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
510:
39:
573:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
439:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
477:
21:
1253:
1217:
1058:
978:
841:. No harm in waiting a bit longer for comments though; I'd still argue for a close with no merge.
188:
105:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
83:
73:
52:
1144:
1111:
1023:
1002:
834:
828:
My view is that objection was based on a policy argument. They directly disputed your claim that
713:
450:
336:
317:
290:
629:
before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
507:
before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
645:
523:
1243:
1185:
1126:
1097:
1048:
926:
846:
792:
414:
373:
352:
1203:
1035:
950:
918:
737:
685:
589:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070220114020/http://www.newstatesman.com/Bookshop/200602130032
566:
432:
298:
279:
652:
530:
776:
582:
401:
http://books.google.com/books?id=JcoUAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA147#v=onepage&q&f=false
391:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0MMVAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA383#v=onepage&q&f=false
178:
157:
997:
The majority of this content is already present on the older and more established page
917:
is the term used usually in North
America and Australia for what in Europe is known as
736:
is the term used usually in North
America and Australia for what in Europe is known as
611:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by
489:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by
1216:
OMG, the merge proposal was already failed. Why are people dragging this topic again?
651:
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
529:
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
396:
http://books.google.com/books?id=uGAaAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA383#v=onepage&q&f=false
1287:
1039:
1019:
998:
946:
838:
681:
406:
http://books.google.com/books?id=EGbQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA87#v=onepage&q&f=false
332:
313:
270:
592:
1239:
1181:
1140:
1122:
1093:
1044:
922:
842:
802:
788:
410:
369:
348:
207:
1180:& yours above contain, indeed rest on, statements that are imo flat untrue.
618:
496:
294:
275:
194:
89:
617:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
495:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
184:
79:
872:
establish that it's meaningful enough that the articles should not be merged.
1158:
881:
811:
752:
1092:. See section above. No, it's much too soon to try again. Withdraw please.
1261:
1247:
1225:
1211:
1189:
1170:
1130:
1101:
1080:
1066:
1052:
1027:
1006:
986:
930:
893:
850:
823:
796:
779:
764:
721:
674:
552:
418:
377:
356:
340:
302:
283:
1121:
being included in "Asian", but being in "Oriental". Then there's Egypt!
875:
Regarding participation, I'll issue an invite to relevant wikiprojects.
863:. It also speaks specifically to overlapping geographic designations:
1147:
contrary to
Knowledge PAG to develop. But as much as I continue to
1238:
No doubt he didn't notice the age. It just needs a formal close.
1090:
Oh, for heaven's sake; the same proposal failed a few months ago
102:
598:
15:
462:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
456:
577:
for additional information. I made the following changes:
443:
for additional information. I made the following changes:
977:
further as per discussion (Including the earlier one) --
210:. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the
583:
http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/SaidSplash.htm
570:
436:
1114:. That one concentrates on the geographical problems
966:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
701:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
101:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
621:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
499:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
787:, given the uncontested objection and no support.
593:http://www.newstatesman.com/Bookshop/200602130032
607:This message was posted before February 2018.
485:This message was posted before February 2018.
1110:See also failed proposals above in 2010, and
969:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
704:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
8:
206:, which collaborates on articles related to
387:Sources on presentations during the event
152:
47:
565:I have just modified 3 external links on
431:I have just modified 0 external links on
200:This article is within the scope of the
154:
49:
19:
864:
860:
835:Talk:Asian studies#Opening description
732:
327:Please no personal none cited opinion!
474:to let others know (documentation at
7:
1314:Mid-importance Western Asia articles
1139:Procedurally, I have to concur with
1057:I think the merge is not necessary.
960:The following discussion is closed.
695:The following discussion is closed.
95:This article is within the scope of
38:It is of interest to the following
222:Knowledge:WikiProject Western Asia
14:
1319:WikiProject Western Asia articles
708:The result of the discussion was
569:. Please take a moment to review
435:. Please take a moment to review
225:Template:WikiProject Western Asia
1276:The discussion above is closed.
936:The discussion above is closed.
383:1894 Geneva Orientalist Congress
269:I propose that this article and
187:
177:
156:
82:
72:
51:
20:
597:Corrected formatting/usage for
581:Corrected formatting/usage for
242:This article has been rated as
135:This article has been rated as
1252:Thanks. Let me close it then.
675:11:47, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
1:
1309:B-Class Western Asia articles
931:18:30, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
894:18:09, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
851:17:47, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
824:17:06, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
797:15:10, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
378:19:28, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
109:and see a list of open tasks.
1299:Mid-importance Asia articles
599:http://www.bostonreview.net/
419:06:18, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
1335:
1190:15:24, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
1171:15:20, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
1081:19:51, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
1067:17:19, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
638:(last update: 5 June 2024)
562:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
516:(last update: 5 June 2024)
428:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
357:19:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
341:18:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
248:project's importance scale
141:project's importance scale
115:Knowledge:WikiProject Asia
1304:WikiProject Asia articles
1262:15:06, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
1248:15:03, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
1226:13:40, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
1212:10:08, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
1131:02:07, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
1102:02:02, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
1053:01:58, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
1028:02:01, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
1007:01:45, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
987:15:10, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
780:15:43, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
765:15:24, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
722:15:49, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
553:16:23, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
241:
172:
134:
118:Template:WikiProject Asia
67:
46:
1278:Please do not modify it.
963:Please do not modify it.
938:Please do not modify it.
710:no consensus for a merge
698:Please do not modify it.
457:http://bostonreview.net/
363:International congresses
303:17:18, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
284:17:06, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
203:WikiProject Western Asia
558:External links modified
424:External links modified
1116:Middle Eastern studies
28:This article is rated
1294:B-Class Asia articles
1112:at Talk:Asian_studies
228:Western Asia articles
619:regular verification
497:regular verification
609:After February 2018
487:After February 2018
466:parameter below to
1071:I agree with you!
945:Proposed merge of
773:hell breaks loose?
731:Per the articles,
680:Proposed merge of
663:InternetArchiveBot
614:InternetArchiveBot
541:InternetArchiveBot
492:InternetArchiveBot
34:content assessment
1168:
1156:
891:
879:
821:
809:
762:
750:
639:
517:
262:
261:
258:
257:
254:
253:
216:for more details.
151:
150:
147:
146:
1326:
1169:
1166:
1165:
1163:
1154:
1036:Oriental studies
965:
951:Oriental studies
919:Oriental studies
892:
889:
888:
886:
877:
830:WP:MULTIPLENAMES
822:
819:
818:
816:
807:
763:
760:
759:
757:
748:
743:WP:MULTIPLENAMES
738:Oriental studies
700:
686:Oriental studies
673:
664:
637:
636:
615:
567:Oriental studies
551:
542:
515:
514:
493:
481:
454:
433:Oriental studies
230:
229:
226:
223:
220:
197:
192:
191:
181:
174:
173:
168:
160:
153:
123:
122:
119:
116:
113:
98:WikiProject Asia
92:
87:
86:
76:
69:
68:
63:
55:
48:
31:
25:
24:
16:
1334:
1333:
1329:
1328:
1327:
1325:
1324:
1323:
1284:
1283:
1282:
1281:
1159:
1157:
1153:
1145:local consensus
994:
973:The result was
961:
954:
942:
941:
882:
880:
876:
859:(a guideline),
857:WP:BROADCONCEPT
812:
810:
806:
753:
751:
747:
729:
696:
689:
667:
662:
630:
623:have permission
613:
575:this simple FaQ
560:
545:
540:
508:
501:have permission
491:
475:
448:
441:this simple FaQ
426:
385:
365:
329:
289:Please discuss
267:
227:
224:
221:
218:
217:
193:
186:
166:
120:
117:
114:
111:
110:
88:
81:
61:
32:on Knowledge's
29:
12:
11:
5:
1332:
1330:
1322:
1321:
1316:
1311:
1306:
1301:
1296:
1286:
1285:
1275:
1273:
1271:
1270:
1269:
1268:
1267:
1266:
1265:
1264:
1254:Kautilyapundit
1231:
1230:
1229:
1228:
1218:Kautilyapundit
1199:Strong oppose:
1195:
1194:
1193:
1192:
1174:
1173:
1136:
1135:
1134:
1133:
1105:
1104:
1087:
1086:
1085:
1084:
1083:
1059:Kautilyalundit
1030:
996:
993:
992:
991:
990:
989:
979:Kautilyapundit
956:
955:
953:
943:
935:
934:
933:
907:
906:
905:
904:
903:
902:
901:
900:
899:
898:
897:
896:
873:
728:
727:
726:
725:
724:
691:
690:
688:
678:
657:
656:
649:
602:
601:
595:
587:Added archive
585:
559:
556:
535:
534:
527:
460:
459:
425:
422:
384:
381:
364:
361:
360:
359:
328:
325:
324:
323:
322:
321:
306:
305:
266:
263:
260:
259:
256:
255:
252:
251:
244:Mid-importance
240:
234:
233:
231:
199:
198:
182:
170:
169:
167:Mid‑importance
161:
149:
148:
145:
144:
137:Mid-importance
133:
127:
126:
124:
107:the discussion
94:
93:
77:
65:
64:
62:Mid‑importance
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1331:
1320:
1317:
1315:
1312:
1310:
1307:
1305:
1302:
1300:
1297:
1295:
1292:
1291:
1289:
1279:
1274:
1263:
1259:
1255:
1251:
1250:
1249:
1245:
1241:
1237:
1236:
1235:
1234:
1233:
1232:
1227:
1223:
1219:
1215:
1214:
1213:
1209:
1205:
1200:
1197:
1196:
1191:
1187:
1183:
1178:
1177:
1176:
1175:
1172:
1164:
1162:
1150:
1146:
1142:
1138:
1137:
1132:
1128:
1124:
1120:
1117:
1113:
1109:
1108:
1107:
1106:
1103:
1099:
1095:
1091:
1088:
1082:
1078:
1074:
1070:
1069:
1068:
1064:
1060:
1056:
1055:
1054:
1050:
1046:
1041:
1040:Asian studies
1037:
1034:
1031:
1029:
1025:
1021:
1016:
1011:
1010:
1009:
1008:
1004:
1000:
988:
984:
980:
976:
972:
971:
970:
967:
964:
958:
957:
952:
948:
947:Asian studies
944:
939:
932:
928:
924:
920:
916:
915:Asian studies
912:
909:
908:
895:
887:
885:
874:
871:
867:
862:
858:
854:
853:
852:
848:
844:
840:
836:
831:
827:
826:
825:
817:
815:
804:
800:
799:
798:
794:
790:
786:
783:
782:
781:
778:
774:
771:
770:
769:
768:
767:
766:
758:
756:
744:
741:
739:
735:
734:Asian studies
723:
719:
715:
714:Shhhnotsoloud
711:
707:
706:
705:
702:
699:
693:
692:
687:
683:
682:Asian studies
679:
677:
676:
671:
666:
665:
654:
650:
647:
643:
642:
641:
634:
628:
624:
620:
616:
610:
605:
600:
596:
594:
590:
586:
584:
580:
579:
578:
576:
572:
568:
563:
557:
555:
554:
549:
544:
543:
532:
528:
525:
521:
520:
519:
512:
506:
502:
498:
494:
488:
483:
479:
473:
469:
465:
458:
452:
446:
445:
444:
442:
438:
434:
429:
423:
421:
420:
416:
412:
408:
407:
403:
402:
398:
397:
393:
392:
388:
382:
380:
379:
375:
371:
368:participants.
362:
358:
354:
350:
345:
344:
343:
342:
338:
334:
326:
319:
315:
310:
309:
308:
307:
304:
300:
296:
292:
288:
287:
286:
285:
281:
277:
272:
271:Asian studies
264:
249:
245:
239:
236:
235:
232:
215:
214:
209:
205:
204:
196:
190:
185:
183:
180:
176:
175:
171:
165:
162:
159:
155:
142:
138:
132:
129:
128:
125:
121:Asia articles
108:
104:
100:
99:
91:
85:
80:
78:
75:
71:
70:
66:
60:
57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
1277:
1272:
1198:
1160:
1148:
1118:
1089:
1032:
1014:
995:
974:
968:
962:
959:
937:
914:
910:
883:
869:
813:
784:
772:
754:
733:
730:
709:
703:
697:
694:
661:
658:
633:source check
612:
606:
603:
564:
561:
539:
536:
511:source check
490:
484:
471:
467:
463:
461:
430:
427:
409:
404:
399:
394:
389:
386:
366:
330:
268:
243:
219:Western Asia
213:project page
211:
208:Western Asia
201:
164:Western Asia
136:
96:
40:WikiProjects
1204:Iskandar323
478:Sourcecheck
312:absorption.
195:Asia portal
90:Asia portal
1288:Categories
1073:67.2.36.77
777:JarrahTree
670:Report bug
548:Report bug
866:purposes.
653:this tool
646:this tool
531:this tool
524:this tool
451:dead link
1020:Kazamzam
999:Kazamzam
975:No merge
839:Twobells
659:Cheers.—
537:Cheers.—
333:Twobells
314:Twobells
1240:Johnbod
1182:Johnbod
1149:Support
1141:Johnbod
1123:Johnbod
1094:Johnbod
1045:Johnbod
923:Johnbod
843:Klbrain
803:Klbrain
789:Klbrain
785:Closing
571:my edit
464:checked
455:tag to
437:my edit
411:Rajmaan
370:Rajmaan
349:Johnbod
246:on the
139:on the
30:B-class
1033:Oppose
911:Oppose
472:failed
447:Added
295:Sunray
276:Sunray
36:scale.
949:into
684:with
265:Merge
1258:talk
1244:talk
1222:talk
1208:talk
1186:talk
1161:Sdkb
1155:{{u|
1127:talk
1098:talk
1077:talk
1063:talk
1049:talk
1024:talk
1015:into
1003:talk
983:talk
927:talk
884:Sdkb
878:{{u|
847:talk
814:Sdkb
808:{{u|
793:talk
755:Sdkb
749:{{u|
718:talk
468:true
415:talk
374:talk
353:talk
337:talk
318:talk
299:talk
291:here
280:talk
112:Asia
103:Asia
59:Asia
1119:not
870:and
837:by
627:RfC
591:to
505:RfC
482:).
470:or
238:Mid
131:Mid
1290::
1260:)
1246:)
1224:)
1210:)
1188:)
1167:}}
1129:)
1100:)
1079:)
1065:)
1051:)
1026:)
1005:)
985:)
929:)
890:}}
849:)
820:}}
795:)
761:}}
720:)
712:.
640:.
635:}}
631:{{
518:.
513:}}
509:{{
480:}}
476:{{
453:}}
449:{{
417:)
376:)
355:)
339:)
301:)
293:.
282:)
1256:(
1242:(
1220:(
1206:(
1184:(
1125:(
1096:(
1075:(
1061:(
1047:(
1022:(
1001:(
981:(
925:(
845:(
801:@
791:(
740:.
716:(
672:)
668:(
655:.
648:.
550:)
546:(
533:.
526:.
413:(
372:(
351:(
335:(
320:)
316:(
297:(
278:(
250:.
143:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
