586:, has again moved the page to "Lhoka". As such it looks like it was not done as vandalism, but I am still very confused as to the reason. What am I missing? The edit summery says "only in edit summery in Chinese"? Didn't you see "According to the Chinese laws, using official Tibetan transcription. Using Tibetan transcription, not Chinese transcri..."? My issues with this move is that the need for the change is not being communicated here (on this talk page), and that none of the content of this page, or any other page has been updated to account for this change. A reader would be confused why the article on Lhoka was talking about Shannan.
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565:. Especially as no content that I have seen has been updated to reflect the name change, and without an English explanation for the name change. If I'm mistaken in doing this, please feel free to explain here why the name should be changed, and we can do a proper job of making the change. It doesn't seem apropreate to move the page without leaving some sort of explanation here though. Thanks! --
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1297:(or Lhoka), when Chinese army came few years ago, they directly translated the name LHO-KA into Chinese language Shan-nan. Until today, 2016, people in Lhokha use name Lhokha, even Chinese people who speak Tibetan language use Lhokha. Same as Shigatse, Chamdo, Nyingchi or Ngari, name for Lhok(h)a region should be used in original language. This is the correct name for this region,
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actually says is, "Mainland China place names should be in Hanyu Pinyin. Place names in Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, and overseas (such as
Singapore) should be romanized in whatever way is commonly used for those places. Same goes for non-Han Chinese place names. So use Hohhot, Kashgar, and Shigatse,
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is that the conventional spelling is conventional vis a vis the town, but the prefecture is something else, and it's a modern
Chinese creation, so a different spelling might be predominant. A guideline would be useful for more obscure names, I suppose. So far, obscure locations in the PRC and PRC
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Chinese names are unstable! E.g. When
Chinese came to Tibet few years ago, they also called area of Nagchu "Hei-shui" (Nagchu = Black water, Heishui = black water). After few years they changed the name into phonetic translation "Na-qu". Who knows if in few years won't re-correct name for Lhoka.
542:. Unfortunetly my knowlage of the Chinese language is limited to reading menus. The article was not changed, or maybe only partly changed to reflect the change in name of the article. I have no idea if this is a valid change, but I do think it deserves more of an explanation. --
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Yes, but the question is do we romanise from the
Manadrin Chinese name, or from the Tibetan name? If the Tibetan name, do we use Tibetan Pinyin or Wylie? The naming convention is unclear. The reference you pointed to is even more unclear: we are told to use
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922:. "Shigatse" is a good example. No systematic romanisation would produce that spelling, and yet it is a very well-established conventional spelling that is by far the most likely to be familiar to readers of English. I believe the logic that produces
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in
English and the transcription should be written in that way (少数民族语地名汉语拼音字母音译转写法, Tibetan Pinyin, UPNY/ULY, etc.). However, if the entire Chinese translation is translation-by-meaning, it didn't mention what we should
898:, using different transliteration systems for the city and prefecture of the same name. The whole question of Tibetan, Uyghur, Mongolian and other local language names really needs sorting out, with clear guidelines.
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While ongoing cultural and language genocide in Tibet, using
Chinese translation word of Tibetan word as a name of the article in less than ethic and actually very helping this genocide!! This is very sad situation.
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:uXJg9HMRpm8J:www.china.org.cn/china/tibetfactsandfigures/2008-04/25/content_15016072.htm+Minerals+in+Shannan+Prefecture&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in
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1052:– Shannan is upgraded to a prefecture-level city in 2016. And Shannan is mostly used to refer the city(formerly the prefecture), therefor a proper move should undertake to meet the currently situation.
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wXqT9feJK6sJ:www.52maps.com/english/maps_show.asp%3Fid%3D49cf9c4f6877e189+History+of+Gonggar+County&cd=13&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2aQDh-p0a0UJ:www.meltdownintibet.com/f_river_tsangpo.htm+Flora+and+fauna+of+Shannan+Prefecture&cd=25&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in
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for the term "Shannan". When I google the search term "Shannan", I get results on various people whose first name is "Shannan", not overwhelming results for the populated place in Tibet.
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It says that if part of
Chinese translation is transcription and part of the Chinese translation is translation-by-meaning, the translation-by-meaning part should be written in
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of PRC says is, "其他特殊情况具体斟酌处理", i.e. guide nothing for this case. However, in an official encyclopedia of
Chinese geography, "(Lhoka) Shannan Diqu" is the official name. --
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We simply don't have an accepted naming convention for any of those other languages. It's not clear to me that we need one, when we can simply fall back on
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Our naming conventions for China, without any exceptions for Tibet, are that we use the Pinyin tansliteration of the
Mandarin Chinese name. That would be
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http://www.hktdc.com/info/mi/a/mpcn/en/1X06B3FC/1/Profiles-Of-China-Provinces-Cities-And-Industrial-Parks/Shannan-Prefecture-Tibet-City-Information.htm
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On many
Tibetan Conventions about Lhoka is used argument about Nicolas Tournadre who said locals in Lhoka calls their region Shannan. There is
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What you mentioned mighted be overseas Tibetan. According to Chinese law, overseas Chinese (incl. overseas Tibetan)'s habit is now protected.
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I and most of my Tibetan friends are very confused by name of this article in English language. Original real name of this part of Tibet is
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890:, which does not appear to fit any of the transliteration systems from either Tibetan or Mandarin Chinese. The confusion has left us with
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The result of the proposal was no consensus to move at this time (revisit after discussion on Tibetan Naming conventions). --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20160830181403/http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-city/China/Lhamo%20La-tso,%20Tibet/tpod.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110221031130/http://china.org.cn/china/tibetfactsandfigures/2008-04/25/content_15016072.htm
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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973:. This could affect the title that is eventually decided for this article. Your comments and feedback are requested.—
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not Huhehaote, Kashi and Rikaze. (呼和浩特、喀什、日喀则)". It's said this for a long time. There's also a disputed tag on it.—
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Partly in response to discussions on this page, I put up a new proposal for Tibetan naming conventions. Please see
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Well, I'm sorry not to have gotten any response, but as such I don't see any option but to move the page back to
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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I'm sorry I replied so late. The name of Lhoka/Shannan seems to be not clear after a more careful reading of
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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http://www.tibettravel.com/en/Unique-Tibet/Arts-Culture/Yinniaojie-in-Tibet-%28birds-worship%29-276.html
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Considering "depending on which name is more common in English" in for Tibetan, the reason is clear.
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It's Chinese prefecture. In Knowledge we should use the official name of Tibet Autonomous Reigon, i.e.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20160707062222/http://52maps.com/english/maps_show.asp?id=49cf9c4f6877e189
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http://www.tibettravel.com/en/Unique-Tibet/Arts-Culture/Yinniaojie-in-Tibet-(birds-worship)-276.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100808210156/http://scenery.cultural-china.com/en/147Scenery3038.html
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100927014009/http://www.tibettravel.info/lhokha/lhokha-history.html
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762:". It appears to be the common English name as well as the common native name. Why not use that?—
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110724104544/http://2007.tibetmagazine.net/en/tourism2002-2.htm
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100906135929/http://www.meltdownintibet.com/f_river_tsangpo.htm
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http://www.china.org.cn/china/tibetfactsandfigures/2008-04/25/content_15016072.htm
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http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-city/China/Lhamo%20La-tso,%20Tibet/tpod.html
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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Knowledge talk:Naming conventions (Tibetan)#New naming convention proposal
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Shannan should contain part of South Tibet, how this can be fixed?
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Many links used in the article goes to page with name LHOK(H)A.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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NO RELIABLE SOURCE FOR THIS INFORMATION AND SHOULD BE DISMISSED.
732:'s name: it US's name is acceptable, should we use a UK name? --
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http://www.52maps.com/english/maps_show.asp?id=49cf9c4f6877e189
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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On Chinese websites translated into English is mostly used
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
758:, even Tibetan people usually refer to the prefecture as "
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http://scenery.cultural-china.com/en/147Scenery3038.html
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is a different matter, and would be better discussed at
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http://www.tibettravel.info/lhokha/lhokha-history.html
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http://www.tibetinfor.com/tibetzt/shannan/doc/4001.htm
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http://www.tibetinfor.com/tibetzt/shannan/doc/5001.htm
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The following is a closed discussion of the proposal.
608:, when I wanted to translate part of it into English.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
1070:, and undo today's move and put the dab page back at
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Start-Class China-related articles of Low-importance
821:than on the talk page of an individual prefecture.
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Knowledge talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)
465:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
360:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1635:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1471:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1232:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1004:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1559:http://2007.tibetmagazine.net/en/tourism2002-2.htm
1403:http://www.meltdownintibet.com/f_river_tsangpo.htm
1158:. No further edits should be made to this section.
530:from Shannon to Lhoka, with not discussion here,
813:. Whether there should be a different rule for
694:The name of the prefecture is, according to the
44:for general discussion of the article's subject.
1621:This message was posted before February 2018.
1593:http://homepage.boku.ac.at/seibert/yamdrok.htm
1457:This message was posted before February 2018.
1218:This message was posted before February 2018.
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927:government units are usually transcribed in
619:it also says "circumstances alter cases". --
1299:without translation into any other language
1289:New proposal for Tibetan naming conventions
961:New proposal for Tibetan naming conventions
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781:Common name might not be official name.
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1530:External links modified (January 2018)
967:Knowledge:Naming conventions (Tibetan)
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271:A record of the entry may be seen at
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1009:The result of the move request was:
459:This article is within the scope of
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1389:http://www.tibettravel.info/lhokha/
313:It is of interest to the following
34:for discussing improvements to the
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1541:. Please take a moment to review
1375:. Please take a moment to review
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18:Talk:Lhoka (Shannan) Prefecture
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590:please give us more info. --
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368:and see a list of open tasks.
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860:official guideline of naming
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1553:Added archive
1539:Shannan, Tibet
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1373:Shannan, Tibet
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1332:Andelicek.andy
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1174:Shannan, Tibet
1166:
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1146:requested move
1140:
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1109:
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1074:where it was.
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1032:Shannan, Tibet
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1007:
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992:requested move
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929:Tibetan Pinyin
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657:
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641:Requested move
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501:Low-importance
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471:the discussion
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426:Low‑importance
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396:Low-importance
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380:Tibet articles
366:the discussion
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337:Low‑importance
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208:Shannan, Tibet
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1076:In ictu oculi
1073:
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750:According to
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264:which serves
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134:Find sources:
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121:Verifiability
119:
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63:Learn to edit
60:
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1675:
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1647:source check
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1483:source check
1462:
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1367:
1348:
1345:Map is wrong
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989:
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949:
920:common names
887:
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752:this article
725:
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693:
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658:
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647:
613:Hanyu Pinyin
592:Keithonearth
567:Keithonearth
544:Keithonearth
525:
500:
460:
454:China portal
395:
355:
315:WikiProjects
259:
253:
247:
237:
231:
228:Did you know
227:
217:Did you know
215:
207:
206:A fact from
182:
176:
168:
161:
155:
149:
143:
133:
105:
30:This is the
1211:Sourcecheck
1156:move review
1002:move review
864:虞海 (Yú Hǎi)
788:虞海 (Yú Hǎi)
734:虞海 (Yú Hǎi)
682:Vegaswikian
661:RegentsPark
621:虞海 (Yú Hǎi)
305:Start-class
222:check views
159:free images
42:not a forum
1697:Categories
1684:Report bug
1520:Report bug
1351:Eipviongll
1123:HairedGirl
1054:Jiangyu911
1011:not moved.
975:Nat Krause
1667:this tool
1660:this tool
1567:dead link
1503:this tool
1496:this tool
1264:this tool
1257:this tool
900:Skinsmoke
858:What the
839:What the
823:Skinsmoke
704:Matthiasb
680:— Relist
283:Knowledge
230:... that
212:Main Page
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
1673:Cheers.—
1509:Cheers.—
1270:Cheers.—
1131:contribs
892:Shigatse
888:Shigatse
258:, and a
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
1571:tag to
1543:my edit
1377:my edit
1280::Online
1197:checked
1178:my edit
1099:Zzyzx11
1072:Shannan
1041:Shannan
1036:Shannan
883:Comment
807:Support
760:Shannan
588:user:虞海
584:user:虞海
503:on the
398:on the
214:in the
165:WP refs
153:scholar
1563:Added
1295:LHOKHA
1205:failed
1127:(talk)
1112:Oppose
1089:Oppose
1068:Oppose
894:, but
718:Oppose
534:noted
311:scale.
137:Google
1431:with
1411:with
1397:with
1318:Lhoka
1121:Brown
1014:忍者ポップ
815:Tibet
561:from
476:China
467:China
423:China
371:Tibet
362:Tibet
334:Tibet
266:Lhasa
255:dzong
244:Tibet
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
1355:talk
1336:talk
1201:true
1118:. --
1103:talk
1080:talk
1058:talk
1018:talk
969:and
937:talk
904:talk
868:talk
850:talk
827:talk
792:talk
768:talk
738:talk
708:talk
686:talk
665:talk
625:talk
596:talk
571:talk
548:talk
538:and
252:, a
173:FENS
147:news
84:and
1641:RfC
1611:to
1601:to
1591:to
1581:to
1557:to
1477:RfC
1435:on
1415:on
1401:on
1238:RfC
1215:).
1203:or
1148:.
1129:• (
754:by
724:or
616:do.
495:Low
390:Low
242:in
236:of
187:TWL
1699::
1654:.
1649:}}
1645:{{
1569:}}
1565:{{
1490:.
1485:}}
1481:{{
1357:)
1338:)
1301:.
1251:.
1246:}}
1242:{{
1213:}}
1209:{{
1105:)
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1043:→
1034:→
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994:.
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829:)
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786:--
770:)
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710:)
702:.
688:)
676:→
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627:)
598:)
573:)
550:)
528:虞海
167:)
65:;
1686:)
1682:(
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1662:.
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402:.
317::
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183:·
177:·
169:·
162:·
156:·
150:·
144:·
139:(
69:.
20:)
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