488:
combination of both. A bottom line is that
Psychiatrists work to deal with both medical and sinful issues, even if they don't recognize the sin. I've heard from somebody who practices "Experimental psychology" (a Knowledge Category) which appears to actually work as a science. He says it's clear in his field that DSM (Diagnostics & Statistics Manual, Psychology's 'Bible' which has no statistics but had to be invented in order to get paid medical insurance) is a fraud and that most psychiatric drug prescriptions and electro-shock treatments are either neutral or harmful. But is it any better to tell hurting people that none of these problems have any medical component to them? God has clearly ordained that we live our entire lives in fallen, biochemical bodies. Should we have 'Sola Scriptura' counselors blaming people's medical problems on their sin?
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1026:. I've added Collins et al to the article for a general historical-and-viewpoint overview. Further use of it may be helpful for expanding Nouthetic versus integrative/synthetic Christian counsellors' view of each other. Such a source (even just one of them -- though the more the merrier of course) provides a far better basis for an article than all the affiliated sources put together.
896:
seminary and Dallas seminary have biblical counseling programs but there are drastic differences between the principles that each hold to. Master's seminary hold's to a biblical counseling that is nouthetic in practice (this article) while Dallas seminary holds to a biblical counseling which is
Christian counseling integrated with general secular psychological principles.
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Biblical conseling is larger than Jay Adams now, I don't think it should be moved there. Actually, I am newer to
Knowledge, could you help me understand better why it should be merged? Is it the lack of greater secondary sources and the small amount of content? I can add a significant amount and a
761:
Not sure merging would be best. Some folks, like Jay Adams and Paul Trip would see biblical counseling as different that
Christian counseling since the former does not rely on Psychology, whereas most who call themselves Christian counselors see the two terms as synonymous and including a mixture of
507:
The section which compares the two forms of counseling seems very biased. It is filled with phrases like "These theories are contrary to what the
Scriptures teach us..." These statements are not neutral and promote one viewpoint over another. If no one else can clean up this section soon, I'll try to
895:
This article either needs to be properly titled "nouthetic counseling" or the nouthetic principles within need to be removed and a new "Nouthetic
Counseling" article needs to be created. Biblical counseling is too broad of a term for what this article is actually about. For example, both Master's
476:
Sorry it has taken so long for someone to answer your question. You've done a great job. I've made a few changes, I hope you approve. Please drop me a note at my user page if or when you get back to Wiki. I'd love it if we could expand this page. Important topic, let's help people have access to
581:
Revised and edited by
Frederick William Danker base on the Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Wörterbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments un fer frühchristlichen Literatur, sixth edition, ed. Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, with Viktor Reichmann and on previous Enlish Editions by W.F.Arndt,
487:
re: Nouthetic counselors who don't believe in mental illness. CCEF's Ed Welch has written a great book on the topic titled "Blame It On the Brain?". He wrote it to help counselors help counselees discern whether problems are mostly medical/biochemical, sinful/mental/emotional/behavioural, or a
1003:
establish notability for you? It seems to be a good RS and treats the subject objectively (from a quick read). It also cites other works that criticize
Nouthetic. Even if a crock (or best thing ever), if it is a crock (or best thing ever) that has been discussed and criticized in RSs it meets
918:- This could be any type of counseling with any varying level of Christian influence. In actually most mainstream Christian/Biblical counseling is governed by general Freudian, Kantian, Jungian, etc principles with some level of added Christian perspective.
1116:
This type of counseling started in the 1970s. The experts, (Clinton and
Ohlschlager), who disagree with Adam's approach, (and even his group has backed away from his approach, thankfully), disagreed on 2000. 20-some-years later.
1044:
I agree 100%. I also found a number of gNews archive hits in mainstream newspapers, but the one I saw (quickly) were behind paywalls, so I didn't link. But the article.defimitely meeds more third-party secondary sourcing.
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829:: "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Lacking significant coverage, the alternatives are merger or deletion. I would also point out that the article is currently lacking
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Nouthetic counseling developed as a reaction against general biblical/Christian counseling. For this reason, you can't group them together, because they both adamantly oppose one another.
955:
on that topic is required. As it is, such sourcing is almost entirely non-existent, with most of the article sourced to Adams, and to organisations and individuals promoting the topic.
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explains some of the reason why NANC changed from "nouthetic" to ACBC (biblical counseling). "Nouthetic" is cumbersome and too narrow.Patrick Fisher 07:32, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
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That's certainly the way I'm leaning. However, I wanted to test the water, and give a chance for other opinions/alternatives, before making a formal merger proposal.
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Possibly someone more qualified could add information pertaining to ACBC (NANC) or the
Biblical Counseling Coalition.Patrick Fisher 07:29, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
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I made an attempt at this under the Organizations section that I just added, but I'm fairly inexperienced with Knowledge edits so it may not pass muster. --
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broader viewpoint if that is the issue. I am familiar with Christian conseling and the more specific versions of Biblical counseling.
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Association of Certified Biblical Counselors (formerly National Association of Nouthetic Counselors), Biblical Counseling Coalition
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Novaseminary: I would point out that the number of 'Merge' !votes, combined with the number of 'Keep; !votes that were directed at
465:
I attempted to add notability information to the article. Can anyone tell me if it is sufficient to allow this article to remain?
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I was with you for a while. i just removed the tags to make it cleaner if there is future discussion. Anyway, does
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Unless third-party sourcing establishing notability can be found, I'll be re-proposing a merger, most probably to
545:
So it seems. In my opinion a major rewrite is in order, preferably including some opposing views to the practice.
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It's 20-some-years later again. That would make those two sections historical now. How has it changed since?
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Novaseminary: I have no problem with this article continuing to exist as long as third-party sources exist,
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to advocates of Biblical counseling. Worse, it offers no input from mainstream psychology. As such it fails
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Christian religion and psychology. However, defiantly agree with secondary sources and view points.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
938:
833:(not just "greater") third-party sources. And lacking such sources, adding new material would be
658:
A search of pubmed.gov (a federal website) has many articles on religious counselinbg. Also see
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100:
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is the obvious one, but it seems more than a little thinly-sourced to provide a stable home.
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Thanks for the guidance. BTW, for new material, I meant material from third-party sources.
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Buytruth: if an article on "Nouthetic counseling" is desired, then significant
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Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature
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http://www.nouthetic.org/nouthetic-counseling/what-is-nouthetic-counseling.html
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and similar articles. This is a particular subset of that topic, developed by
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1123:(I honestly don't know, which is why I came to read it in the first place.)
1097:
287:. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
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Third Edition, Copyright © 2000 by The University of Chicago Press
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match up with the definitions in my Greek lexicon for that entry.
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I don't have time to do an edit, but the translations given for
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article, not this one. These schools are adamantly against
825:
The standard for survival as an independent article is
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What would you favour as an alternative merge target?
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http://www.healthieryou.com/mhexpert/exp1121001a.html
217:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
112:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
631:(which requires siginficant independent coverage),
925:DTS and WTS should be cited and included in the
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687:, and also known as "nouthetic counseling".
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58:
1125:2600:4040:7EDC:6400:E4F8:D548:B5A9:4DF9
527:This article is copied and pasted from
165:
60:
30:
572:Here's the bibliographic information:
933:and adhere to integrated counseling.
7:
1167:Low-importance Christianity articles
679:That material is already covered at
211:This article is within the scope of
106:This article is within the scope of
49:It is of interest to the following
1152:Low-importance psychology articles
231:Knowledge:WikiProject Christianity
25:
1172:WikiProject Christianity articles
234:Template:WikiProject Christianity
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126:Knowledge:WikiProject Psychology
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1157:WikiProject Psychology articles
582:F.W.Gingrich, and F.W.Danker.
283:This article was nominated for
251:This article has been rated as
146:This article has been rated as
129:Template:WikiProject Psychology
966:be taken as establishing that
962:counseling, mean that the AfD
470:12:51, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
1:
1162:C-Class Christianity articles
1106:18:11, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
1055:14:26, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
1040:08:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
1018:07:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
992:06:53, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
603:17:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
518:18:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
498:08:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
225:and see a list of open tasks.
120:and see a list of open tasks.
943:11:15, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
1147:C-Class psychology articles
1024:and are used in the article
619:Lack of third party content
482:17:43, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
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1133:15:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
837:, and thus impermissible.
753:18:52, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
723:17:44, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
701:09:47, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
671:01:12, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
653:05:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
257:project's importance scale
152:project's importance scale
908:- The Bible alone is used
555:22:52, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
540:08:02, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
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18:Talk:Nouthetic Counseling
623:This article is sourced
214:WikiProject Christianity
869:00:18, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
851:18:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
817:18:23, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
798:06:33, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
772:19:41, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
297:, 2 December 2011, see
970:counseling is notable.
561:citation for neutheteo
109:WikiProject Psychology
39:This article is rated
237:Christianity articles
953:third party sourcing
931:Nouthetic Counseling
927:Christian Counseling
916:Christian Counseling
906:Nouthetic Counseling
681:Christian counseling
912:Biblical Counseling
508:take a shot at it.
307:, 18 May 2010, see
206:Christianity portal
132:psychology articles
45:content assessment
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585:—Preceding
510:SU Linguist
421:free images
360:free images
1141:Categories
861:Wikiofwiki
809:Wikiofwiki
764:Wikiofwiki
635:(and thus
567:neutheteto
503:Neutrality
309:discussion
299:discussion
123:Psychology
114:Psychology
70:Psychology
1001:this help
968:Nouthetic
715:Basileias
591:Olcharkuk
1089:contribs
1077:unsigned
960:Biblical
935:Buytruth
900:Summary:
599:contribs
587:unsigned
490:Roger604
285:deletion
637:WP:NPOV
477:it. :)
427:WPÂ refs
415:scholar
366:WPÂ refs
354:scholar
255:on the
150:on the
41:C-class
964:cannot
827:WP:GNG
633:WP:DUE
625:solely
399:Google
338:Google
47:scale.
1034:Stalk
1030:Hrafn
986:Stalk
982:Hrafn
845:Stalk
841:Hrafn
792:Stalk
788:Hrafn
747:Stalk
743:Hrafn
695:Stalk
691:Hrafn
647:Stalk
643:Hrafn
610:This
442:JSTOR
403:books
381:JSTOR
342:books
1129:talk
1102:talk
1098:Nhoj
1085:talk
1051:talk
1014:talk
1006:WP:N
939:talk
914:and
865:talk
813:talk
768:talk
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667:talk
612:page
595:talk
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536:talk
514:talk
494:talk
435:FENS
409:news
374:FENS
348:news
305:keep
295:keep
831:any
639:).
449:TWL
388:TWL
247:Low
142:Low
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