760:
250:
80:
53:
180:
22:
653:
632:
663:
90:
1120:
What about this one? "The first shipment to
England of what would become Spain's most famous wine was labelled "Vino de Jerez, Seco." In London, "Jerez" was Anglicized to "sherry," and "seco" became "Sack." By Shakespeare's time, "sack" was a synonym for "sherry." Williams & Humbert have the sole
923:
I come from the UK, know lots of Sherry lovers, and have NEVER heard dry Sherry referred to as sack (apart from in
Shakespeare plays!). Dry Sack is, however, a well-known brand of Sherry. But for a reason I do not understand it is also applied to Sherries that are not dry. The reference was actually
1090:
its word root. On p. 94 Francis Drakes 1587 raid is mentioned. But please notice that the word "sack" (p. 93, just as already stated in this article) in
English goes back to around 1530, so it predates the raid by several decades. So the booty from the raid seems to have added to the popularity of
1274:
provides good advise if needed. You have obviously read the OCW article though (which only mentions OED but not the other dictionaries you mention), so you clearly have seen that OCW and wine historians disbelieve the proposal put forward by the dictionary writers of OED who somewhat inexplicably
1216:
Regardless, the fields of oenology and philology are rather distinct: being able to appreciate sack is an entirely different skill to knowing where its name comes from. Knowledge should therefore defer to a philological rather than oenological source when it comes to a wine's etymology, and your
1275:
attach the name of a
Spanish sweet wine to the French word for dry. I attach more weight to OCW, for the simple reason that this article is written in full knowledge of the OED entry (the reverse doesn't hold true), and by people who understand the subject matter.
1018:? The present possible ethymologies are clearly referenced, as you can see. (And by the way, the verb "sack" in this meaning is surely a short form of "ransack", so unless the short form was established in the 16th century, it's unlikely to be the explanation.)
850:. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging
1183:
I disagree that preference must be given to OED in comparison to a specialised subject matter source. There is no logical connection between the style of Sack and "dry" as commonly applied to wine; that would more be the style of "thin potations".
1289:
A reference to what? The OED? Insert one if you like, but it doesn't really need one. Second edition - the third hasn't been prepared for that entry yet. I appreciate it's behind a paywall, and I can send you a copy of the relevant page if you'd
1167:
The derivation from "sake" is almost certainly nonsense, and the 1911 EB's entry on "Sake" directly contradicts its one on "Sack". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and a 99-year-old encyclopaedia doesn't cut it.
1269:
with the widest coverage of wine-related material including history. It is very strange that you use the term "original research" and while not providing any inline references to your claims - which edition, which page and so on?
1202:
derivation to one particular person, Julian Jeffs, implying that even they think he's out on a limb. By all means mention his theory, but don't pretend that his is seen as the most likely. See
974:
Although the production of Canary Sack does appear to have died out, it appears that the
Lanzaroti vineyard of "El Grifo" is now attempting to recreate it, under the name "Malvasia Canari"
188:
63:
847:
997:
In 1587 Martin
Frobisher, the fleet of Francis Drake attacked Cadiz and Jerez, 3000 boots carrying these wines. This booty sherry became fashionable in the English court.
892:
Well, I added a sentence to that effect; I've also seen it on some bottles as part of a name. An important point, though, is that historically, sack was not just sherry.
575:
1164:
Further to the above, I revamped the section on the etymology. Precedence must be given to the OED, though I have kept the reference to the Oxford
Companion to Wine.
1372:
140:
854:. Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the
1377:
1367:
484:
944:"Sack is an antiquated wine term referring to white fortified wine imported from Spain or the Canary Islands.". Excuse me, the Canary Islands are Spain.--
855:
116:
1387:
719:
709:
531:
Just about all of them! Any pictures of wine regions, grape varieties or wine would be useful. In particular we need wine region maps that can be
1392:
1382:
945:
602:
150:
1333:- the etymology is pretty much what we have now. Though Webster's seem to have dodged the etymological question by misdefining the noun...
103:
58:
1316:
The "subject matter" here is linguistics. Is there anything else oenological one needs to know, save for the fact it's not actually dry?
877:
i think you might find that in the u.k. the term is not as antiquated as you indicate, and that dry sherry is often referred to as sack.
851:
836:
747:
193:
978:
685:
1198:
I disagree with your disagreement. The OED is a scholarly work, which reflects academic consensus. The OCW article attributes the
594:
546:
465:
579:
560:
1235:
Furthermore, it is customary only to trace a word back if it has changed in meaning. There's no value in saying that French
1209:
The 1911 EB does the same with
Morewood, whoever he is, but his proposal is even more nonsensical. The EB derives the word
526:
1071:
Ok, i donÂŽt write anything in the article because you know the wine better and my english is very poor. Thank you Tomas.--
778:
676:
637:
532:
444:
351:
792:
343:
316:
272:
33:
1305:
derivation is an improvement - put out from what? And why is it from the infinitive, rather than the past participle,
281:
550:
541:
493:
300:
261:
211:
115:
related articles on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1271:
1262:
949:
929:
863:
335:
975:
21:
1297:
derivation; it mentions the OED first, says that it is slightly sceptical of it, then mentions the theory of
1140:
The statement about "Shakespeare's time" is obviously not fully correct, since
Falstaff speficially calls it
1106:
Well, after your explanation no doubt about the origin of the term, thank by the attention. Good evenight. --
564:
339:
308:
982:
739:
510:
39:
1313:) rather than a noun? I don't have access to Jeffs' book, but if you do, perhaps you could let me know.
277:
1122:
925:
911:
882:
859:
304:
296:
290:
1301:. That's hardly "historians of wine" - at best, it's one historian of wine. And I can't see how a
684:
on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
681:
449:
1121:
rights to use "sack" commercially in the name "Dry Sack." (Grossman's Guide, 1964) (quoted from
1309:? And why do some of the earliest citations treat it is an adjective (as one would expect from
1280:
1189:
1149:
1130:
1107:
1096:
1072:
1061:
1042:
1023:
1000:
964:
897:
759:
249:
1338:
1321:
1252:
1226:
1173:
1111:
1076:
1046:
1004:
376:
924:
for a medium (i.e. sweetish) Sherry; not a dry one. I have edited the text appropriately. (
457:
372:
360:
1144:
sack, rather than just sack. So it doesn't come across as a 100% well-researched source.
959:
This was the expression in the source, which must have meant Spain as "mainland Spain".
907:
878:
825:
502:
424:
330:
79:
52:
1361:
843:
668:
368:
364:
321:
1056:
Then I will definitely have a look, since I have that book laying around somewhere!
1276:
1266:
1218:
1203:
1185:
1145:
1126:
1092:
1057:
1034:
1019:
1015:
960:
893:
518:
420:
416:
400:
384:
1334:
1317:
1248:
1243:
here, any more than there is in saying English "wine" comes from Proto-Germanic
1222:
1169:
1086:
In the "New illustrated edition" of 2005, "sack" is explained on p. 92-93, with
514:
432:
392:
388:
95:
999:
The origin of the term sack is from the English word sack, meaning "pillage".--
658:
498:
436:
412:
408:
325:
85:
1213:
from the name of the city Osaka, which betrays its ignorance of such matters.
652:
631:
976:
https://elgrifo.com/tienda/gb/dulces-antiguos/88-malvasia-canari-50-cl.html
662:
179:
475:
453:
396:
471:
380:
89:
1331:
506:
404:
1342:
1325:
1284:
1256:
1230:
1193:
1177:
1153:
1134:
1123:
http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/wineday/2000/wd0100/wd011900.html
1115:
1100:
1080:
1065:
1050:
1027:
1008:
986:
968:
953:
933:
915:
901:
886:
867:
1330:
Ah, just answered some of my own questions. See the last entry on
428:
112:
356:
108:
680:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Spirits or
15:
178:
799:
and assessing their quality and importance to the project.
610:
606:
598:
237:
232:
227:
222:
832:
This article talk page was automatically added with
787:
Tagging all articles that fall under our scope with
107:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
161:
583:
191:, a project which is currently considered to be
1265:is not a fringe theory or nonsense, and is the
1221:by allocating undue weight to fringe theories.
8:
19:
727:
626:
485:Unreferenced biographies of living persons
206:
158:
47:
1041:defends the version of pillage in 1587.--
470:Cleanup lists of wine-related articles:
1014:Where does this come from, and is it a
628:
49:
1373:Low-importance Food and drink articles
582:. Add to the Wikiquote page for wine:
7:
1293:The OCW doesn't actually favour the
1091:sack rather than creating the term.
674:This article is within the scope of
551:Nominations for top level importance
187:This article is within the scope of
125:Knowledge:WikiProject Food and drink
101:This article is within the scope of
1378:WikiProject Food and drink articles
1368:Start-Class Food and drink articles
258:Here are some tasks you can do for
128:Template:WikiProject Food and drink
38:It is of interest to the following
1217:version of the paragraph violates
14:
758:
661:
651:
630:
282:Great Wine Capitals of the World
248:
88:
78:
51:
20:
1388:Low-importance Spirits articles
714:This article has been rated as
145:This article has been rated as
731:Spirits WikiProject task list:
561:Template:Infobox grape variety
1:
934:23:00, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
694:Knowledge:WikiProject Spirits
688:and see a list of open tasks.
119:and see a list of open tasks.
1393:WikiProject Spirits articles
1383:Start-Class Spirits articles
1154:22:18, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
1135:17:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
697:Template:WikiProject Spirits
593:
969:16:53, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
954:07:29, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
1409:
1343:22:40, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
1326:22:32, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
1285:21:53, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
1257:20:23, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
1231:20:18, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
1194:18:22, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
1178:16:04, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
916:14:42, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
902:11:42, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
887:14:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
837:WikiProject Food and drink
826:WikiProject Food and drink
720:project's importance scale
151:project's importance scale
104:WikiProject Food and drink
1116:15:36, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
1101:14:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
1081:14:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
1066:15:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
1051:11:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
1039:The Story of Wine (1989)
1028:09:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
1009:09:16, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
842:banner as it falls under
726:
713:
646:
205:
186:
157:
144:
73:
46:
1272:Knowledge:Citing sources
1263:Oxford Companion to Wine
987:12:34, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
868:06:14, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
848:one of its subcategories
336:wine serving temperature
746:page, to edit it click
565:Template:Infobox winery
340:Western Australian wine
309:Western Australian wine
131:Food and drink articles
576:grape article template
183:
28:This article is rated
547:Operation stub-killer
511:Robert M. Parker, Jr.
182:
1299:a particular scholar
476:articles by category
344:Start class articles
793:WikiProject Spirits
779:WikiProject Spirits
682:Distilled beverages
677:WikiProject Spirits
299:, particularly the
162:Related taskforces:
992:Origin of the term
450:Cabernet Sauvignon
184:
34:content assessment
1239:comes from Latin
856:project talk page
822:
821:
818:
817:
814:
813:
810:
809:
806:
805:
751:
625:
624:
621:
620:
617:
616:
592:
591:
278:Sebastiani family
210:WikiProject Wine
201:
200:
1400:
841:
835:
797:
791:
762:
754:
753:
737:
728:
702:
701:
700:Spirits articles
698:
695:
692:
671:
666:
665:
655:
648:
647:
642:
634:
627:
377:Champagne (wine)
295:any of the ~700
262:WikiProject Wine
252:
244:
243:
207:
189:Wines task force
169:
159:
133:
132:
129:
126:
123:
98:
93:
92:
82:
75:
74:
69:
66:
55:
48:
31:
25:
24:
16:
1408:
1407:
1403:
1402:
1401:
1399:
1398:
1397:
1358:
1357:
1267:reliable source
1162:
1016:reliable source
994:
946:194.179.126.153
942:
875:
839:
833:
830:
802:
795:
789:
763:
699:
696:
693:
690:
689:
667:
660:
640:
613:
588:
574:Comment on the
458:Sauvignon blanc
373:California wine
361:Australian wine
273:Article request
253:
242:
167:
130:
127:
124:
121:
120:
94:
87:
67:
61:
32:on Knowledge's
29:
12:
11:
5:
1406:
1404:
1396:
1395:
1390:
1385:
1380:
1375:
1370:
1360:
1359:
1356:
1355:
1354:
1353:
1352:
1351:
1350:
1349:
1348:
1347:
1346:
1345:
1314:
1291:
1214:
1207:
1161:
1158:
1157:
1156:
1104:
1103:
1069:
1068:
1031:
1030:
993:
990:
972:
971:
941:
940:Canary Islands
938:
926:Steve.slatcher
921:
920:
919:
918:
874:
871:
860:TinucherianBot
829:
823:
820:
819:
816:
815:
812:
811:
808:
807:
804:
803:
801:
800:
784:
767:Here are some
765:
764:
757:
733:
732:
724:
723:
716:Low-importance
712:
706:
705:
703:
686:the discussion
673:
672:
656:
644:
643:
641:Lowâimportance
635:
623:
622:
619:
618:
615:
614:
590:
589:
587:
586:
584:Wikiquote wine
568:
567:
554:
553:
537:
536:
535:for Knowledge.
522:
521:
503:Cabernet franc
489:
488:
480:
479:
461:
460:
445:Articles to FA
440:
439:
425:Sparkling wine
352:Articles to GA
347:
346:
331:Vitis vinifera
312:
311:
286:
285:
268:
255:
254:
247:
241:
240:
235:
230:
225:
219:
216:
215:
203:
202:
199:
198:
185:
175:
174:
172:
170:
164:
163:
155:
154:
147:Low-importance
143:
137:
136:
134:
122:Food and drink
117:the discussion
100:
99:
83:
71:
70:
68:Lowâimportance
59:Food and drink
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1405:
1394:
1391:
1389:
1386:
1384:
1381:
1379:
1376:
1374:
1371:
1369:
1366:
1365:
1363:
1344:
1340:
1336:
1332:
1329:
1328:
1327:
1323:
1319:
1315:
1312:
1308:
1304:
1300:
1296:
1292:
1288:
1287:
1286:
1282:
1278:
1273:
1268:
1264:
1260:
1259:
1258:
1254:
1250:
1246:
1242:
1238:
1234:
1233:
1232:
1228:
1224:
1220:
1215:
1212:
1208:
1205:
1201:
1197:
1196:
1195:
1191:
1187:
1182:
1181:
1180:
1179:
1175:
1171:
1165:
1159:
1155:
1151:
1147:
1143:
1139:
1138:
1137:
1136:
1132:
1128:
1124:
1118:
1117:
1113:
1109:
1102:
1098:
1094:
1089:
1085:
1084:
1083:
1082:
1078:
1074:
1067:
1063:
1059:
1055:
1054:
1053:
1052:
1048:
1044:
1040:
1036:
1029:
1025:
1021:
1017:
1013:
1012:
1011:
1010:
1006:
1002:
998:
991:
989:
988:
984:
980:
977:
970:
966:
962:
958:
957:
956:
955:
951:
947:
939:
937:
935:
931:
927:
917:
913:
909:
905:
904:
903:
899:
895:
891:
890:
889:
888:
884:
880:
872:
870:
869:
865:
861:
857:
853:
849:
845:
844:Category:Food
838:
827:
824:
798:
794:
786:
785:
782:
781:
780:
774:
772:
766:
761:
756:
755:
752:
749:
745:
741:
738:This list is
735:
734:
730:
729:
725:
721:
717:
711:
708:
707:
704:
687:
683:
679:
678:
670:
669:Liquor portal
664:
659:
657:
654:
650:
649:
645:
639:
636:
633:
629:
612:
608:
604:
600:
596:
585:
581:
580:grape infobox
577:
573:
570:
569:
566:
562:
559:
556:
555:
552:
548:
545:
543:
542:Collaboration
539:
538:
534:
530:
528:
527:Photo request
524:
523:
520:
516:
512:
508:
504:
500:
497:
495:
491:
490:
487:
486:
482:
481:
477:
473:
469:
467:
463:
462:
459:
455:
451:
448:
446:
442:
441:
438:
434:
430:
426:
422:
418:
414:
410:
406:
402:
398:
394:
390:
386:
382:
378:
374:
370:
369:Burgundy wine
366:
365:Bordeaux wine
362:
358:
355:
353:
349:
348:
345:
341:
337:
333:
332:
327:
323:
322:Canadian wine
320:
318:
314:
313:
310:
306:
305:miscellaneous
302:
298:
294:
292:
288:
287:
283:
279:
276:
274:
270:
269:
267:
265:
264:
263:
256:
251:
246:
245:
239:
236:
234:
231:
229:
226:
224:
221:
220:
218:
217:
213:
209:
208:
204:
196:
195:
190:
181:
177:
176:
173:
171:
166:
165:
160:
156:
152:
148:
142:
139:
138:
135:
118:
114:
110:
106:
105:
97:
91:
86:
84:
81:
77:
76:
72:
65:
60:
57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
1310:
1306:
1302:
1298:
1294:
1244:
1240:
1236:
1210:
1199:
1166:
1163:
1141:
1119:
1105:
1087:
1070:
1038:
1037:in his book
1035:Hugh Johnson
1032:
996:
995:
979:82.40.90.107
973:
943:
922:
906:point taken.
876:
873:Nomenclature
831:
788:
777:
776:
770:
768:
743:
736:
715:
675:
571:
557:
540:
525:
519:Rioja (wine)
492:
483:
472:all articles
464:
443:
421:Spanish wine
417:Rioja (wine)
401:Italian wine
385:Dessert wine
350:
329:
315:
289:
271:
260:
259:
257:
192:
146:
102:
40:WikiProjects
740:transcluded
578:and on the
515:Pinot blanc
433:Tempranillo
393:German wine
389:French wine
96:Food portal
30:Start-class
1362:Categories
437:Winemaking
413:Pinot noir
409:Pinot gris
326:Greek wine
297:wine stubs
212:open tasks
1160:Etymology
908:Toyokuni3
879:Toyokuni3
742:from the
558:Infobox:
533:licensed
494:Copyedit
454:Riesling
397:Grenache
342:, other
307:" ones,
194:inactive
1277:Tomas e
1186:Tomas e
1146:Tomas e
1142:Sherris
1127:Samogon
1093:Tomas e
1058:Tomas e
1020:Tomas e
961:Tomas e
894:Tomas e
828:Tagging
718:on the
691:Spirits
638:Spirits
607:history
603:discuss
499:Aligoté
466:Cleanup
381:Chianti
317:Improve
228:history
149:on the
1335:Wereon
1318:Wereon
1307:sacado
1249:Wereon
1245:*winam
1241:siccus
1223:Wereon
1170:Wereon
773:can do
769:tasks
572:Other:
507:Malbec
405:Merlot
301:region
291:Expand
36:scale.
1303:sacar
1295:sacar
1290:like.
1219:WP:OR
1204:WP:OR
1200:sacar
744:tasks
611:watch
429:Syrah
303:and "
238:purge
233:watch
113:drink
1339:talk
1322:talk
1281:talk
1261:The
1253:talk
1227:talk
1211:sake
1190:talk
1174:talk
1150:talk
1131:talk
1112:talk
1097:talk
1088:saca
1077:talk
1062:talk
1047:talk
1033:Ok,
1024:talk
1005:talk
983:talk
965:talk
950:talk
930:talk
912:talk
898:talk
883:talk
864:talk
852:here
775:for
748:here
599:edit
595:view
474:and
357:Wine
223:edit
111:and
109:food
64:Wine
1311:sec
1237:sec
1108:NÂș9
1073:NÂș9
1043:NÂș9
1001:NÂș9
858:--
846:or
771:you
710:Low
383:,
141:Low
1364::
1341:)
1324:)
1283:)
1255:)
1247:.
1229:)
1192:)
1176:)
1152:)
1133:)
1125:)
1114:)
1099:)
1079:)
1064:)
1049:)
1026:)
1007:)
985:)
967:)
952:)
936:)
932:)
914:)
900:)
885:)
866:)
840:}}
834:{{
796:}}
790:{{
783::
609:âą
605:âą
601:âą
597:âą
563:,
549:,
517:,
513:,
509:,
505:,
501:,
456:,
452:,
435:,
431:,
427:,
423:,
419:,
415:,
411:,
407:,
403:,
399:,
395:,
391:,
387:,
379:,
375:,
371:,
367:,
363:,
359:,
338:,
334:,
328:,
324:,
280:,
266::
168:/
62::
1337:(
1320:(
1279:(
1251:(
1225:(
1206:.
1188:(
1172:(
1148:(
1129:(
1110:(
1095:(
1075:(
1060:(
1045:(
1022:(
1003:(
981:(
963:(
948:(
928:(
910:(
896:(
881:(
862:(
750:.
722:.
544::
529::
496::
478:.
468::
447::
354::
319::
293::
284:.
275::
214::
197:.
153:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.