Talk:Seven (1995 film)/Archive 1

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had her genitals sliced up with a knife; the proud woman was marred, suiciding out of shame; and the envious man was shot by the very man he admired. As John Doe put it "every sin was turned against the sinner". But what of wrath? Detective Mills had his wife and unborn child murdered. This was his primary motivation for killing Doe, but was it also his punishment? Was the punishment of wrath to have your love ones die, while you remain alive in brooding hatred? Is wrath itself a punishment? Either way, Mills was the only sinner to remain alive. This needs to be adressed in the analysis and discussion of the article. And more importantly John Doe's own article. It is a fundemental aspect in interpreting his "masterpiece", and understanding him as one of literature's most interesting villains. I have 3 theories on the matter: (1) that living in wrath is a greater punishment than death; (2) that Mill's was punished by the death of his loved ones; or (3) Mill's will be so shattered that he will commit suicide. I think the third theory is the most likely. --

2332:. The police captain describes Doe as "independently wealthy, well-educated, and totally insane," but when Somerset tries to tease any personal information out of him, Doe claims that who he is "doesn't matter." Doe has created a completely blank identity for himself; there are no clues to his real identity in his apartment, his bank account was started with cash and he has no employment records; a scene during the opening credits shows him blanking out a picture of a young boy's face with a black marker. Doe routinely and painstakingly uses razor blades to slice off his fingerprints to protect his identity. Doe is only really defined by his crimes and his religious mania, as apparent in his apartment. His apartment, and particularly the 2000 notebooks he has compiled over the years, give the biggest clues to who he is. 3357:"Using illegally obtained library records, Somerset and Mills identify a man named John Doe (Spacey)...", in what way would PUBLIC LIBRARY book utilization be illegally obtained? The records are public record and there is no reasonable expectation of privacy for utilization of public resources which one has an exchange record of. Hence, the illegal part is POV. Unless someone with a legal background can refute that suggestion, library loan records are subject to FOI request, hence, no reasonable expectation of privacy exists. Were it a PRIVATE library, such COULD be construed to exist. To suggest the notion of a public library is private in nature is to suggest that an FOI request is also private or even urinating in a corner of a public building is private. A bar or pub is far, far more private than a public library. 2487:— The film is NOT universally known as se7en (see poster on the Knowledge page itself!) and despite what IMDB calls the film, half the posters/art on its site say Seven (with the other half Se7en). "Seven" is the far more common name - simply do a Google search for "Brad Pitt Seven" vs. "Brad Pitt Se7en" - and consider many Google hits for "Se7en" are partially due to Knowledge's current name, and would be reversed if this title were changed. When the film is released under two different spellings, the "English" spelling should be used. Thus Seven (film) is the correct title. — 3337:

chloride solution, in a high concentration, cause either death or "locked in syndrome" or anything in between the two. Hence, the explanation is simplified for the public, rather than explaining something like demyelination or electrolyte imbalance or even protein poisoning of kidneys or even more exotic terms. That said, I DO agree with the change, as Knowledge is NOT for medical types, but for those with lesser knowledge of such subjects AND this is a work of fiction. Good catch, Vasco. I'd have missed it, due to my medical background and expectation of oversimplification.

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ironically, it was her client, the man who paid to have sex with her, that was lustful. She was, in effect, only doing her job, and it is doubtful that she harboured any physical attractions to her clients. Yet, she was selected by Doe for brutal murder. This lends credibility to the idea that Doe possessed a level of mysogonism; blaming the woman for luring innocent men into her lair to be corrupted. This aspect of Doe's killings should probably be explored more in Doe's own article, rather the wider "Se7en" article. But it is worth consideration. --

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addressed to Mills, but Somerset decides to open it. He recoils from the box in horror, and yells to Mills, who is struggling to ignore Doe's comments, to put his gun down and to not come near the box. As Somerset runs back to Mills and Doe, Doe reveals to Mills that he had visited Tracy after Mills left for work and tried to "play husband." The independently wealthy Doe envied the fruits of a common man's life and is thus guilty of ENVY. Doe then discloses that he killed Tracy and her unborn baby

2782:– From looking at the promotional material, I see "seven" (no capitals) used on one poster, with that poster being used for some DVD covers. More common seems to be "SE7EN" (no lowercase) on other posters and DVD releases. So it looks like the film itself never uses "Se7en" or "Seven", and I would guess that they are using "7" as the capital of "v", so "Se7en" is as incorrect as "SeVen" and looks odd in part because of the taller "7" mixed in with lowercase letters. 3422: 38: 2246: 1047:- He also tells his boss that "he'll be around", hinting that he isnt leaving. He quotes hemmingway's "The world is a great place, and worth fighting for" and says he agrees only with the second part. Thus, he states that he wants to fight for the world, despite it being so horrible. A change in opinion from earlier in the movie. This means he wishes to stay on the force, and keep "fighting". - SMOOTHMEDIA 1821: 1878: 2356:. These domestic observations are contrasted to his writings on sin. Doe is revolted by the self-glorification of a sinful world. He believes that the human race in the divine scheme of things is a pathetic shadow of what we could have been, if we had not Fallen (obviously referring to the original sin of temptation that Adam and Eve gave into). 288:, because the IMDb is not the final arbiter in these things. They in fact use the title that appears at the start of the credits, even if, as in this case, that is a quirky title that isn't necessarily the standard. "Seven" is used at least as much as "Se7en", and much of the use of the latter is probably because of the IMDb anyway. 1985:, reveals that aside from his hair and fingertips, John also went as far as removing his teeth and genitals in order to avoid identification through dental records and seminal samples. The issue also explains that John used to serve in the United States Marine Corps and that he was married and had a son who died as an infant. 2382:

I know that he didn't want billing in the opening credits or in the promotional stuff, but why isn't he mentioned AT ALL in the actual article? It's a spoiler, yes, but the article does give away the ending of the movie AND Spacey did receive billing at the end credits, so his name should be in there

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Was the prostitute really a sinner, at least in the extreme circumstances that John Doe's other victims were? She was killed by having her genitals sliced up (from the inside) by the blade of a knife, wielded by her client at the orders of Doe. She was killed because she commited the sin of lust. But

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All seven of the Deadly Sins was covered by the film, but only six of them were punished by death. The gluttenous man was force fed until he exploded; the greedy man was bled to death from a wound he was made to cut; the slothful man was tortured for a year, but kept alive in agony; the lustful woman

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The section on Lust mentions that the audience doesn't see the instrument used for this killing. However, I have seen a version where the veiwers are shown the instrument. It takes place during the interrogation scene back at the police station. For about two or three frames (similar to the length of

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There is one other indication in the film as to the location: Near the end, after Somerset has stopped the deliveryman, and opened the box, he yells into his microphone (talking to the SWAT team in the helicopter), "California, don't come in here, John Doe is holding all the cards!" The setting, and

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Personally, I think it IS the common name. I personally have seen "Se7en" used probably about 3/4 of the time (of course, other people may see "Seven" more). It's the title on the opening credits - which definitely makes it seem like the "official" title, no? Plus, searching for "Seven" goes straight

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as well. As you can see, there were a number of people opposed to Se7en, on the basis that IMDB is not the final arbiter in these matters, Se7en is NOT the unequivocal certain title of the film (again, look at all the promotional material for the film including on Knowledge), and the common name of

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took her severed head as a "souvenir". As Somerset returns, Mills comprehends Doe's implication. Desperate for a reason not to believe Doe's claims, Mills repeatedly demands that Somerset reveal what was in the box. Somerset's refusal to directly answer the question leaves Mills with little doubt

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assures Somerset that Mills will be taken care of. Somerset offers that if Mills needs anything, Somerset will want to help. However, given Somerset's impending retirement, the captain is unsure how he would contact Somerset if need be. The captain asks, "Where are you going to be?" Somerset wearily

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When they arrive at Doe's prearranged location, dry and desert-like with rows of electrical transmission towers, a delivery van soon arrives. Somerset stops the van several hundred yards from their location and confronts the driver, who says that he was to deliver a box to their location. The box is

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So, based on the credits of 'Annie Hall', we should also misspell Christopher Walken's name in Knowledge? I'm really curious how people are supposed to pronounce the alleged title of this movie, apparently "seh-sev-en-en". Sounds pretty stupid to me. Also, if we're going to go with "Se7en" as the

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What are you talking about? The Special Edition DVD (the most recent version of the film), clearly uses the title "Se7en", both on the DVD's front cover and in its menus. This is the official title, as used on the Internet Movie Database. I'm changing it back, unless someone else has a more recent

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shows Doe, now a teenager, becoming besotted by a pleasant young girl in his religious-education class. At this stage in his life, Doe has begun the habit of writing journals describing his every thought and action. He writes that his feelings toward this girl are pure and that she is nothing like

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shows that Doe's mother was a religious fanatic, obsessed with sin and eternal damnation. At one point during his school years, Doe began to develop carnal desires for a sexually active girl in his class, which his mother condemned. His mother became infuriated upon finding Doe masturbating in the

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It seems that there should be some discussion (probably under the section about the "look" of the film) about the innovative opening credits sequence, with the collage of film and still images, since this was very innovative at the time. The man who did them went on to do the opening credits on a

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I like your edits a little better. As far as the "might" goes, that's not that big an issue to me. Saying "...suggesting he will not go through with his long-awaited retirement" is fine with me; as you said, "suggesting" is enough of an implication. One thing that just occured to me is that it

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Please provide sources and basis for your declarations of fact. I would think that the name as shown in the title card would be more official than anything you would find on a third-party site, even IMDB. Sorry, but that's just the way the world works: It's the people that create the product that

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Should the section which discusses Doe's development in the comic book be moved to the section dealing with the comic book? It just seems off having two different parts that deal with it, especially since the section on Doe goes more in-depth on the comic than the actual comic section. Thoughts?

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The scenes in the apartment complex where Mills and Somerset first encounter John Doe were shot on location at the run-down yet historically significant Alexandria Hotel in downtown Los Angeles. During its heyday, the hotel was a favorite haunt of Charlie Chaplin among other Hollywood notables.

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While, from a medical standpoint, the change is accurate, frequently, shock is named as a cause of death, rather than a rather complex chain of events that cause death. Consider someone whose sodium level and probably water level is low and is in shock. Rapid replacement of sodium, as in sodium

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06:03, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC) It is not called Sesevenven. The title is "Seven". It's just written as Se7en in the esoterically designed title sequence and some of the posters. That doesn't make it an immutable part of the title. You might as well insist on the title of West Side Story being written

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Hello, I'm wondering why John Doe has his own section, with his own infobox on the side, and particularly why the section contains info about him from the socalled "Extended Universe". The main characters in the film (Mills and Somerset) do not have such a section. This looks like it would be

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Still, he didn't seem to show any other sign of misogyny apart from this, and even then it is debatable whether his act was truly sexist. Although he did seem to blame the prostitute personally for tempting men, near the end of the film he referred to her as a "disease spreading whore", I don't

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abound in the film including all of the buildings in the opening scene starting with 7, and the delivery in the movie's climax being scheduled for 7:07 p.m. The movie spans seven days, Monday through Sunday. Also, at the beginning of the movie, Somerset mentions that he has 7 days before he

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One version of the script contained a few scenes following the final confrontation between the detectives and John Doe. In one, Somerset is in the hospital recovering from being shot by Mills and the captain delivers him a letter from Mills which reads, "You were right. You were right about

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grief-stricken, Mills dramatically contemplates killing Doe. Somerset tries to stop him, arguing that Doe's revelations only stand if he is killed for his sin of Envy and if Mills is the one who kills him and so becomes the embodiment of WRATH. "If you kill him, he will win," says Somerset.

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time Gwyneth Paltrow's head is shown at the end), a polaroid flashed onto the screen showing a strap-on dildo-like instrument, with a machete in place of the phallus. The article mentions this, but I'm still not sure if the author has made it clear as to whether the audience has seen this.

1397:? I'm not sure what the user's reasoning is for preferring it since the user is not offering any edit summaries. Regardless, though, I think there have been enough reverts back and forth that the time has come to try to reach a community consensus as to whether it's an improvement. 2364:

I removed the Pride section from the religious imagery article since the crucifix form is ridiculously simple and almost certainly unintentionl. Furhtermore, the whole article seems to be pretty out there. Unless there is something to back all of it up, I suggest it be removed.

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the girl he lusted over years before. He offers to help the girl with her revision and invites her to his house. Upon entering his room, however, they encounter John's mother, now a violent alcoholic. She is reading John's journals and mockingly reads them out to the girl.

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I'd submit Somerset's non-retirement is also obvious. That is the whole point of the subsequent Hemingway quote that we hear him give us. What does the final Hemingway quote mean, in Somerset's context, if it doesn't mean that? Is there any other plausible explanation?

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There is a deleted scene from the opening of the film with Somerset purchasing a house in the country. He uses his switchblade to cut a swatch of wallpaper. This is what he shows Tracy in the dinner sequence, which makes little sense without the deleted scene in

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A screencap of the title card in the movie probably should be added to the article, but as the pic in the infobox or somewhere in the main body of the article? Also, to answer ThatGuamGuy: The movie's title is simply said "Seven", despite the funky spelling.

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I removed the "wild goose chase" comment as it was inaccurate. A "wild goose chase" is the pursuit of something impossible (or nearly impossible) to attain. In this film, they were running after a suspect and almost caught him, hardly an impossible task.

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has it as Se7en, New Line Cinema has it as Se7en, the movie itself uses Se7en... and wikipedia has it as Seven. No. I don't understand how we don't have consensus on this yet? Looks like it has been discussed for a while. I urge people to agree on

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I find it ironic that the killer's identity is revealed at the intro to the article, above the spoiler tag. Kevin Spacey specifically requested that his name not be included in the opening credits, so that his appearance would surprise the audience.

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Well . . . as I've already mentioned in my edit summary, I do not like that wording of "might" that you've left there, given that the statement about Somerset's retirement has already been softened to say "suggesting". His suggestion is not that he

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Kevin Spacey specifically requested that his name not appear in the opening credits, AS WELL AS all posters for the movie before it came out - he didn't even go on the publicity tour. I am removing this information from before the spoiler warning.

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realizes that Mills was unaware Tracy was pregnant and then turns to Somerset and says, "He didn't know." So Somerset was definitely already back with them at the time the revelation was made, not still with the box, nor still back running toward

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As you say yourself, the sinner of Sloth was also alive after they found him. he was admitted to the intensive care unit. They only mention that he was technically alive, if you can call it that, and bright lights would make him go into shock.

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about it, with his basic bed and the red neon cross above it. Doe seems to be a manic obsessive (he collects aspirin bottles and he details every part of his life in his notebooks). The list of flagged books Somerset and Mills procure includes

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I disagree that the title should be "Seven (film)" as this isn't an issue of formatting or capitalization, but the spelling. Also, most of the time a film title is not a trademark (except in cases like Harry Potter, etc.) I vote for "Se7en".

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Calling the world a dystopia is a bit over the top. It's obviously New York or at least inspired by it and a theme of the movie is how screwed up current world is. Dystopia makes it sound like some 1984/Brave New World future, not today.

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Well, what does official mean? "Se7en" is, after all, the title in the opening credits. That Movie posters are created by promotion teams. Opening credits are made the filmmakers. Don't the filmmakers get to choose the official title?

519:) as that is the name from the title card. They teach us in library school to catalog according to the "item itself" and not the container. In a similar vein, the first movie released with the Indiana Jones character will be titled 3392:

The entire alternate endings section was sourced to one reference, a broken link to a horror news site, which I doubt would pass muster as a reliable source. Until good sources are found for that section, it should not be restored.

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The appearance of the Chester Williams Bldg (as Somerset leaves the site of the foot chase) is far more specific. As for the nickname "California" it could be argued that this in fact indicates the SWAT leader is from elsewhere.

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Kevin Spacey refused billing for the movie, and his name does not appear in the opening credits. He claimed that he does not want people to wait to see him in the movie, preferring his part in the film to be a surprise to add

857:, which are both poster/DVD titles. However, I believe that what is shown on-screen should be the title of the article, with a mention of the promotional title in the opening, similar to the first four examples I gave. 2566: 1037:

In regards to the changes made by Mwelch: The movie doesn't appear to give any definite indication that Somerset is re-considering his retirement. Is this to be inferred from the dialogue and the Hemingway quote?

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The film concludes when, in voice-over, with sirens wailing in the background, Somerset explains why: "Ernest Hemingway once wrote: 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."

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David Mills fires his gun seven times in the movie: once in the scene when he talks with William Somerset, and six times into John Doe. While chasing John Doe through the apartments, he does not fire his

372:, on all posters and promotion it was called X2:X-Men United or X-Men2:X-Men United... but those were just promotional titles and the true name of the film is still X2, as shown in the opening credits.-- 3254:

Although not directly identified by name, it is hinted at being New York. Mrs Mills refers to the town where she and Det.Mills grew up as 'upstate.' How many major cities have that besides New York?

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I don't think it gives away any of the plot to have it there. The story is about a killer and he doesn't show up until they've caught him, so it's not like it's a plot twist being revealed.

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Doesn't it appear very similar to the suicide of pornstar Savannah, who recieved severe facial damage in a car accident(driving under cocain) and an hour later shot herself? -cthulhoid

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The subtitle of cinematography was added inorder to give the audience an appreciation of how Director David Fincher created an envirornment which was conducive for this thrilling movie.--

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In the scene with Tracy and Somerset talking at a diner, she says things are very different "upstate" as though that's where she and Mills lived before. This makes me think of New York.

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So, why not move the spoiler warning up to the cast section? Or move the cast section down? Or, I realize this is odd for a Knowledge article, obscure K.S.'s name in the link such as "

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seem to say the written title is "SE7EN". With the notable exception of the one-sheet you mention, everything else they have put out, that has the title written, has it like that.

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is the universally accepted offical name. I know some people has to fight about things no matter what and can't stand to be wrong, but live with it. To those that say they prefer

2702:(this specific move). Should be "SE7EN" or "seven" (note specific capitalization) and not "Seven" or "Se7en", since the film is using "7" as a capital "v". (see comment below) — 2527: 2152:(which is why the exchange of the information takes place secretly and Mills later bribes a witness to construct a story about how they found Doe's apartment). After 2002, the 2072:

While shooting for the GLUTTONY scenes, Fincher used live cockroaches. Because of this the set had to be raised on to stilts and wrapped in plastic to ensure none would escape.

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I don't remember the name on the back of John Doe's jail clothes near the film's end (in the field), but they may be a clue as to the story's venue. Can someone investigate?

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and revulsion at the world. His door carries multiple bolts and locks, his windows are blacked out, and there are religious icons and drawings everywhere. There is an air of

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The added section about John Doe is an interesting read, but is heavily POV and sounds like original research. If it's taken from somewhere, it needs citations and sources.

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Possibly, but Lecter was a principal character in three books which were made into movies, whereas John Doe is only featured in one movie. I added a reference to Doe to the

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reveals his source for the name of Lt. William Somerset during the scene in which Somerset and Mills research library books. One of the books they explicitly mention is

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on top; I doubt many people will look for the number by writing it out, scrolling down the number page for the movie is inconvenient; if one wants to know what the word

2600:. "Se7en" is unpronouncable other than "Seven". As such, we should be able to surmise that "Se7en" is just a style that was used, unlike Macy*s (rather than Macy's). 1978:

The girl runs away, with John's mother physically attacking him and telling him that no matter what he does, he will always be a sinner and will inevitably go to Hell.

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In a deleted scene from the PRIDE sequence, Doe wrote in blood "I did not kill her. I gave her a choice" on a wall leading to the bedroom where the victim was found.

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In the version I watched, the guy "punished" for gluttony was forced to cut "one pound of flesh, no more, no less" from himself. Or am i remembering something else?

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Do you have a source that loan records are public records? Does a library being a PUBLIC LIBRARY automatically make everything that happens in the library public?

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How many deserts are near New York city? The Catskills? I'm from Philadelphia, we refer to people from upstate as such, does that make Philadelphia New York city?

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The title shown in the movie's opening credits is Se7en, not Seven. Shouldn't the listing here be the other way around - that Seven is the promotional title? --

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that her head was in the box. That is the whole point of all of the characters' subsequent reactions that we see. So it would be silly not to include it here.

420:, because there are no other "Se7en"s). The movie's actual, official title should be used, regardless of whether or not it fits normal spelling or grammar. - 309:, because there are no other "Se7en"s). The movie's actual, official title should be used, regardless of whether or not it fits normal spelling or grammar. - 2899:

The singer uses 'Se7en' on his album covers and promotional posters, so your first suggestion would be more appropriate (if everyone else is okay with that).

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I was wondering about this myself, because I clearly remembered seeing the instrument at some point in the movie. The article should be edited accordingly.

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Vanity is not one of the seven deadly sins. This is what I get for getting my entire religious education from the Dudley Moore/Peter Cook film "Bedazzled".

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As noted above, it isn't just based on a mistake in the credits. It's more the fact that it's New Line's movie, so the title is what they say it is. And

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In the Religious imagery section, there are two references to power lines, yet no explanation as to what the religious symbolism of those power lines is?

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While this may be true, without something official to back up the supposition it remains a supposition and thus really isn't appropriate for inclusion.

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As a start, I just took out the Public Response response section. This whole article is POV, really. I'm at a loss at how to fix it without a re-write.

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The injury (broken arm) suffered by Mills in the pursuit of Doe was added to the story after Brad Pitt injured himself attempting a stunt in the scene.

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I thought the article said we don't see the polaroid while in the leather shop, which we don't. We do see the polaroid while in the police station.

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If one watches the film, what is the spelling used when the title is displayed on screen? That should be the title here if technically possible. —

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With the exception of the desert scene at the end, and a brief moment when Mills and Somerset are riding in a van, it is always raining, as in the

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Should the cover of the 2-disc Special Edition be used in the article along with the original DVD cover, to show the contrast between the titles?

1283: 1228: 1210: 1159:"California" is just the character's name (like Joaquin Phoenix's character in another Andy Walker screenplay, 8MM); it doesn't mean he's either 935:

It's about time the POV adulatory critical comments were either backed up or removed. The article has had NPOV sitting on it for far too long.

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Although the description of the movie's plot is very good and detailed, I feel that there are too many positive comments for the movie. I liked

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i don't think that this guy died from shock as it is stated in the storyline of this article. In the movie, his terrible state is described by

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NOTE: the film technique is called Bleach Bypassing and "increased its overall tonal quality" as a description doesn't actually mean anything.

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the film is "Seven", not "Sesevenen". And finally, "Se7en" is just a stylistic representation which is generally rejected on Knowledge (note

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How does that seem? (I'm fine with the rest of your modifications above, and I guess I'll grumble and grit my teeth over the "might" thing.)

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the Slothful are forced to lie constantly underneath the surface of the Styx while the Wrathful fight each other constantly on the surface.

1427:, and from the viewpoint of their helicopter watching them is shown walking away from Somerset and Doe's corpse in the direction of the box 123: 2929:"Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official"" 3111: 1287: 1223: 1133: 1529:

mention it ("She begged for her life . . . and the life of the child within her" or something like that), he observes Mills' reaction,

1414:, and implies that the box contains Tracy's severed head; he also taunts Mills when he realizes that Mills was unaware of her pregnancy 3084: 2900: 2398: 2159:

The words "Bardach County Jail" appear on the back of the killer's orange jumpsuit. Elinor Bardach is the movie's costume supervisor.

893: 2935:"Avoid using special characters that are not pronounced, are included purely for decoration, or simply substitute for English words" 2665:"Avoid using special characters that are not pronounced, are included purely for decoration, or simply substitute for English words" 1864: 328:: title is seVen, not se7en. If both version are somewhat "official" I prefer seven, the only one I knew before reading se7en here. 142:

Doesn't it seem weird to give the identity of the killer so blatantly, before the spoiler warning? It almost looks planted. -qartis

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standard English. If it is used at all let us follow that standard, even if it is not universal (or even if it is not most common)

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has the film listed under the title Se7en, meaning that was the title under which it was submitted to them by the distributors. --

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After watching this film several times, I am aware that Victor (Theodore Allan) has no other nickname(s) when he is referred to.

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Are either of the listings in the See also section really relevant? Do we really need to go read the article on the number 7? --

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Didn't the disfigured model who commits suicide represent vanity? The article lists this as "pride". [[UserNope. Don't think so.

78: 73: 3298:, but not the same can be said about his prognosis, it's merely implied. I think the "PLOT" part should be changed in this bit. 1944:

The recent comic-book adaptations of the film by Zenescope Entertainment give some insight into Doe's childhood and upbringing.

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The critical sections were the only POV, I thought. It doesn't read as POV now, so I'm taking off the neutrality disputed tag.

594:: "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment" - 2686: 2126: 1992:

shows that John's mother committed suicide by burning herself to death, using John's childhood possessions to feed the flames.

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I've moved sections that contained unsourced text that was also original research and placed it here until it can be sourced.--

2141:" can be heard) scroll down from the top of the screen, the reverse of typical credit movement (scrolling up from the bottom). 3215: 3158: 2144:

At the time in which the movie takes place, the list of flagged library books Somerset obtains from his FBI contact violated

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where those guilty of Gluttony are forced to lie face down in mud, in continuous cold rain while eating their own excrement.

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The movie is rife with religious imagery, specifically crosses which are prominently displayed in many parts of the movie:

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as well as each item being unsourced for two months. Items should be merged into article only if appropriate and sourced.

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The sleeping pills reference links to sedatives, these are not the same as sleeping pills, it should link to hypnotics

2531: 1787:. If you review these guidelines, and still believe your entry is helpful, please bring it to this talk page. Thanks. 1521:

mention the baby at that moment. The first time he mentions it (and thus the first time Mills finds about the baby) is

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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I've removed this section from the main article and placed it here as it is unsourced and contains Original research.--

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John Doe the killer is a fascinating character and may warrant an entry of his own. Hannibal Lector has one after all.

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catches Mills in an alley at gunpoint from Mills' point-of-view. Fincher is holding the gun wearing the trenchcoat.

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I think that's referring to the shape of the electrical towers themselves. It's a bit of a stretch in either case.

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just decide that I agree with the second part." But he didn't offer any such equivocation on either point. So I

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bathroom and severely beat him. Doe would later witness his mother making love to his equally God-fearing uncle.

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As for the rest, I'd change the wording just a little bit regarding Doe's initial revelation about killing Tracy.

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Somerset has completed his run back and rejoined the two of them. I'm just about sure of that because when Doe

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To be fair, the prostitute wasn't the lustful one, the client was. So, really, there's two sinners left alive?

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Then is it also not appropriate for inclusion that Tracy's head was in the box? We never saw it. No one ever

382:. Isn't the film's title Seven, and "sesevenen" is just a stylistic decision used in some promotional material? 2543:- as nom. Happy to discuss further if necessary, but as per the above, Seven (film) is the right title here. 1668:

There is also an unlikely fourth theory that mills will be given the death sentence.22:01, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

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The version that you prefer is, IMO, better for the page. Here's a suggested rewrite (changes are bolded):

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title, shouldn't there be a picture up which reflects that? The poster clearly spells the word correctly.

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very much myself but I think that as an encyclopedia, Knowledge should keep a NPOV in all of its articles.

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R.E.M.'s Michael Stipe was originally offered the role of John Doe, before the role went to Kevin Spacey.

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I added the subtitle of theme and tried to incorporate what I believe was the main theme of the movie--

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Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with

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replies, "I'll be around," suggesting that he might not go through with his long-awaited retirement.

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to clean up the page a bit. They might not be what those people would have chosen for themselves. -

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anywhere, that policemen, regardless of the particular agency they work for, will look out for and "

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to the number - one has to search for "Se7en" to find a disambiguation page to find the movie...

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As a librarian, I can tell you that any respectable library catalog will have the movie under

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The GLUTTONY victim was forced to lie face down in food while he ate continuously, as in the

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means one could use wiktionary ... of course that might break consistency with articles like

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Not sure where it would be appropriate, but there could be a section on "influences"; (i.e.

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Shortly before shooting John Doe, a single flash of Mills' wife's face appears on screen.

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Vanity is missing from the article, leaving this entry with six deadly sins and not Se7en.

23: 3362: 3342: 3295: 3276: 2922: 2794: 2752: 2660: 2433: 2153: 2145: 2121: 2097: 845:, etc., all of which use the on-screen title. The only exceptions that spring to mind are 398: 373: 158: 147: 2416:. Gluttony was the first murder they came across, the one who was force fed to death. -- 545:

I don't care what people who've obviously never watched this movie say, it belongs under

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Trivia section should be removed or merged to the article, as it's mostly uncyclopedic

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What you're suggesting is in violation of Knowledge naming conventions, specifically

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Doe discloses that he killed Tracy, then adds, "I took a souvenir...her pretty head."

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It is raining throughout the course of the movie until the killer turns himself in.

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has it as Se7en, the Platinum DVD has it as Se7en, libraries have it as Se7en, the

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You lost me with the reference to the Chester Williams Building. Tell me more. --

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might work better to use Doe's actual words in the sentence about killing Tracy:

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number of other films. I would argue it is an important feature of the film. ---

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this comment would seem to indicate they are somewhere in southern California. --

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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chooses the name, not you or some know-it-all site. Thanks for reading my rant.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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So maybe something like (bold indicates changes from what you proposed above):

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of Hell, where the overly lustful were constantly blown about by a heavy wind.

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Well, that was the problem with this article. What you suggest violates the

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which they intended to turn into a pseudo-sequel. This idea was abandoned.

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SLOTH was lying in a wet bed, probably with urine or excrement, but in the

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that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved.

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made it legal for agencies to compile such lists to investigate suspects.

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Please add to the list references that can be used for the film article.

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as to the contents of the box and the truth of Doe's words. Doe then

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I think there's something missing in this article...where's vanity?

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The American Cinema of Excess: Extremes of the National Mind on Film

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.

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John Doe also makes several biblical references himself, notably to

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But hey . . . if I'm the only one who feels that way, I'll back off.

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section in the article on serial killers, but didn't expound on him.

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is a promotional title. Similar situations arise with the articles

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The large illuminated cross above John Doe's bed in his apartment.

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Most hilarious post made on a discussion page thus far this year.

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did a large amount of research for his role in the film, he said

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and you have put it back. Your entry is entirely speculative and

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is acceptable in a chatroom or an informal forum discussion, but

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it is revealed that, as a child, Doe suffered from excruciating

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The viewer is told comparatively little about the character of

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The PRIDE victim appears to be posed in a crucifixion gesture.

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Plot summarry is way too long and takes up most of the article

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Near the discovery of LUST a heavy wind is blowing as in the

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I delisted the article from GA nom for the following reasons

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Doe kills 7 and Mills kills 1 - what was Mills' wife's sin?

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The power lines in front of the GLUTTONY murder's apartment.

1771:. You have no citation for your material. Your own words ( 1077:, "Tracy's head was in that box." It remains a supposition. 91:

The section titles for "Texts" through "NPOV" were added by

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page should link to the movie directly, and have a link to

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ls shoots Doe in the head, empties his gun into Doe's body

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Please correct me if I have overlooked anything, cheers!

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taunts Mills when he realizes that Mills was unaware of

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Nothing on crtictism, reviews, how the cast was formed?

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Soundtrack should be on an seperate article, or removed

2667:) especially since the "7" is not universally used. — 2176:

New Line developed a serial killer screenplay called

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What about an article about the hacker named se7en?

3077:She didn't have a sin, it was Doe who envied her. 2530:, please explain your reasons, taking into account 503:referred to as "Se7en" (except in the actual URL). 2335:Doe's apartment is a shrine to his obsession with 1712:recall him showing any hatred of women in general. 1434:driven away in a police cruiser, while the captain 2992:was specifically pitched as "Seven in Seattle". 2614:I'm going to go ahead and change my opinion and 2310:Photographer, self appointed religious enforcer 2001:preserved from article proper due to reasons on 1764:SpartanPhalanx8588, I've reverted your addition, 1614:Excellent idea. I think that works very well. 1389:Would any other users care to offer opinions on 1385:Envy & Wrath section edits from 72.138.74.56 1955:, which were treated with a botched attempt at 1891:The power lines where the film's climax occurs. 432:is the official title, IMDb nonwithstanding. — 523:regardless of what the VHS or DVD boxes say. - 258:- sorry if that topic was already discussed. ( 2133:The closing credits of the movie (over which 497:http://www.newline.com/sites/seven/index.html 8: 2820:Now if only the same thing can be done with 2348:, who wrote on the seven deadly sins in his 1546:Doe then discloses that he killed Tracy and 2988:has specifically stated that his t.v. show 2642:, we should default to the proper English. 2165:appears at the end of the foot chase where 573:is the official name: Declared official by 561:: sorry but sites like Knowledge are about 470:Apart from the huge disambiguation list on 3225: 3168: 2815:version of the film proving the contrary. 2528:polling is not a substitute for discussion 2051:fame was the medical adviser on this film. 1335:for a good example of an movie FA. Thanks 1865:Learn how and when to remove this message 1423:However, the distraught and emotional Mil 813:Coming very late to this discussion, but 641:. So far the opinion splits like this: 2965:exclusively in Saul Bass' handwriting. 1478:not retire, then he would have said "I 515:(hopefully with a cross reference from 3435:Do not edit the contents of this page. 2236: 1470:not retire; his suggestion is that he 592:Knowledge:Manual of Style (trademarks) 51:Do not edit the contents of this page. 2598:the one we have on the Knowledge site 1474:not retire. If he was suggesting he 1003:Now...which murder represents pride? 7: 3142:Browning, Mark. "To Catch a Killer: 1490:don't like that "might" being there. 495:Another thing: look at the website: 3353:Illegally obtained library records? 2412:The lawyer was killed that way for 1226:) on 03:53, January 3, 2007 (UTC); 2618:the move, I've seen the light! -- 2302:reflecting the victim's major sin 1331:Article needs some heavy work see 31: 2204:better suited in its own article 1517:I'm almost certain that Doe does 1327:images has no fair use rationales 397:into a redirect to this article. 3420: 1819: 36: 3301:Attentively, from Portugal - -- 3242:) 10:39, 5 November, 2010 (UTC) 3185:) 21:16, 26 October, 2010 (UTC) 2460:The result of the proposal was 487:At the *bottom* of the page... 3152:David Fincher: Films That Scar 2878:and have them all redirect to 2532:Knowledge's naming conventions 2055:Somerset is shown leaving the 1654:The Murder of Wrath (spoilers) 1167:California. It's just a name. 1: 2834:17:02, 25 February 2009 (UTC) 2773:19:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 2678:23:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 2652:22:03, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 2623:03:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC) 2610:23:03, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 2592:22:03, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 2574:21:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 2553:06:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 2520:, then sign your comment with 2497:06:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 2388:09:03, 12 November 2007 (UTC) 2130:also inspired his own acting. 2079:later used this technique in 1760:Keeping Original Research Out 1717:02:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC) 1706:11:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC) 1664:11:37, 17 February 2007 (UTC) 1649:18:48, 26 November 2006 (UTC) 1432:In the final scene, Mills is 1380:19:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC) 1172:02:36, 27 November 2006 (UTC) 959:15:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC) 926:14:27, 21 November 2005 (UTC) 917:14:27, 21 November 2005 (UTC) 867:23:09, 10 November 2008 (UTC) 720:23:09, 10 November 2008 (UTC) 132:06:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 3367:07:08, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 3347:07:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 3281:06:56, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 3072:01:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC) 2851:? 21:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC) 2442:20:29, 6 February 2008 (UTC) 2421:17:01, 6 February 2008 (UTC) 2407:17:47, 4 February 2008 (UTC) 1619:20:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC) 1598:04:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC) 1571:02:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC) 1458:13:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC) 1402:05:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC) 1105:21:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC) 1065:12:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC) 1006:Edit: okay, I take it back. 950:20:00, 9 December 2005 (UTC) 940:03:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC) 848:A.I. Artificial Intelligence 761:12:05, 29 October 2005 (UTC) 682:18:43, 8 November 2005 (UTC) 614:06:44, 28 October 2005 (UTC) 173:12:18, 29 October 2005 (UTC) 103:12:18, 29 October 2005 (UTC) 3330:12:34, 17 August 2011 (UTC) 3311:01:20, 12 August 2011 (UTC) 2761:Thirtysomething (TV series) 2091:Somerset's badge number is 1845:the claims made and adding 1365:02:28, 18 August 2006 (UTC) 1296:03:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC) 1016:comment added by ] (] • ]) 817:is the on-screen title and 603:01:35, 12 August 2005 (UTC) 319:. Take a look to the poster 111:Removal of Dystopia Mention 24:Talk:Seven (film)/Archive 1 3481: 3413:02:44, 26 April 2012 (UTC) 3265:07:44, 19 April 2011 (UTC) 3120:20:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC) 3093:10:31, 13 March 2010 (UTC) 3028:18:38, 21 April 2009 (UTC) 2975:23:08, 31 March 2009 (UTC) 2946:00:34, 10 March 2008 (UTC) 2909:00:19, 10 March 2008 (UTC) 2780:Let the film itself decide 2687:Whydontyoucallme dantheman 2227:18:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC) 2206:John Doe (Se7en character) 2192:100 Scariest Movie Moments 2085:, which also starred Pitt. 1806:15:26, 26 March 2008 (UTC) 1792:04:37, 10 March 2007 (UTC) 1043:04:24, 12 April 2006 (UTC) 1032: 976:22:48, 13 March 2006 (UTC) 809:03:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC) 790:20:23, 21 March 2007 (UTC) 772:19:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC) 707:17:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC) 586:This should clearly be at 540:22:03, 1 August 2005 (UTC) 325:or to this other dvd cover 262:18:59, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)) 191:18:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC) 3382:11:27, 1 April 2012 (UTC) 3053:22:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC) 3008:20:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC) 2891:21:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC) 2807:00:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC) 2789:14:52, 1 March 2008 (UTC) 2724:20:44, 3 March 2008 (UTC) 2707:14:52, 1 March 2008 (UTC) 2695:01:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC) 2471:09:23, 4 March 2008 (UTC) 2370:08:19, 15 July 2007 (UTC) 2258: 2254: 2239: 2212:20:38, 24 June 2007 (UTC) 2108:Other uses of the number 2057:Chester Williams Building 2026:, the best known work of 1754:13:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC) 1735:03:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC) 1691:21:51, 3 March 2008 (UTC) 1676:10:29, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 1342:06:44, 20 July 2006 (UTC) 1274:20:21, 18 July 2006 (UTC) 1027:09:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC) 902:12:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC) 690:02:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC) 507:16:51, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC) 491:06:27, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC) 467:16:39, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC) 424:23:10, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC) 228:12:11, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC) 212:20:21, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC) 161:20:38, 2005 Mar 27 (UTC) 153:10:57, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC) 3211:. McFarland. pp. 70–77. 2759:title is capitalized as 2736:Any additional comments: 2452:Please do not modify it. 2139:The Hearts Filthy Lesson 2127:The Silence of the Lambs 2028:William Somerset Maugham 1246:06:25, 26 May 2006 (UTC) 1199:20:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC) 1186:11:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC) 1152:18:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC) 527:00:57, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) 458:04:02, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC) 447:16:47, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC) 439:00:31, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) 404:19:55, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC) 313:23:10, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC) 281:02:05, 1 Jun 2005 (UCT) 2870:" at the top. Or maybe 2352:. Doe also quotes from 2010:05:33, 4 May 2007 (UTC) 989: 521:Raiders of the Lost Ark 481:22:42, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) 393:I'd recommend changing 376:06:12, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC) 356:00:57, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) 342:04:02, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC) 332:23:25, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC) 295:20:11, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC) 2880:Seven (disambiguation) 2849:Se7en (disambiguation) 2249: 1884: 1781:do the right thing for 1696:The Innocence of Lust? 1416:. Enraged, horrified, 1229:Please sign your posts 1136:) 05:01, 29 April 2006 18:Talk:Seven (1995 film) 3433:of past discussions. 3287:Victor - Sloth victim 2248: 2186:This film was #26 on 1880: 1286:comment was added by 1214:comment was added by 1033:Somerset's retirement 322:, to the Amazon entry 49:of past discussions. 3201:Natural Born Killers 3191:King, Mike (2008). " 2744:the above discussion 2578:Depends on the dvd; 1957:electroshock therapy 1947:In the third issue, 1923:Fifth Circle of Hell 1916:Third Circle of Hell 1902:Third Circle of Hell 1482:be around," and, "I 428:It looks to me like 2199:Section on John Doe 2018:Andrew Kevin Walker 1444:What do you think? 1086:But of course it's 338:: use common name. 3398:RepublicanJacobite 2865:for the film, see 2859:could just become 2346:St. Thomas Aquinas 2250: 1962:The fourth issue, 1934:Sodom and Gomorrah 1885: 1830:possibly contains 1391:this repeated edit 1324:Clear lack of refs 266:Old requested move 3468: 3467: 3445: 3444: 3439:current talk page 3388:Alternate endings 3328: 3267: 3243: 3230:comment added by 3186: 3173:comment added by 3129:References to use 3110:comment added by 3083:comment added by 2998:comment added by 2847:be redirected to 2757:thirtysomething's 2360:Religious Imagery 2326: 2325: 2124:' performance in 1988:The final issue, 1981:The sixth issue, 1970:The fifth issue, 1953:cluster headaches 1940:Expanded universe 1875: 1874: 1867: 1832:original research 1811:Religious imagery 1769:original research 1299: 1138: 1124:comment added by 1018: 947:Brian Schlosser42 904: 892:comment added by 454:Use common name. 134: 122:comment added by 84: 83: 61: 60: 55:current talk page 22:(Redirected from 3472: 3454: 3447: 3446: 3424: 3423: 3417: 3411: 3407: 3399: 3322: 3320: 3255: 3221: 3164: 3122: 3095: 3010: 2676: 2674: 2524: 2518: 2512: 2454: 2350:Summa Theologica 2315:Current status: 2237: 2023:Of Human Bondage 1870: 1863: 1859: 1856: 1850: 1847:inline citations 1823: 1822: 1815: 1333:Halloween (film) 1281: 1233: 1137: 1118: 1017: 1010: 887: 886:What about no? 732:Knowledge Seeker 434:Knowledge Seeker 203:Wild Goose Chase 186: 117: 70: 63: 62: 40: 39: 33: 27: 3480: 3479: 3475: 3474: 3473: 3471: 3470: 3469: 3450: 3421: 3410: 3405: 3397: 3394: 3390: 3355: 3318: 3289: 3252: 3250:Identified city 3218: 3205:American Psycho 3190: 3161: 3141: 3131: 3105: 3102: 3078: 3060: 3036: 3016: 2993: 2982: 2958: 2943:MacAddct  1984 2888:MacAddct  1984 2841: 2818: 2753:Time (magazine) 2732: 2670: 2668: 2620:MacAddct  1984 2571:MacAddct  1984 2522: 2516: 2510: 2504: 2478: 2450: 2429: 2418:MacAddct  1984 2395: 2380: 2362: 2235: 2201: 2154:USA PATRIOT Act 2146:civil liberties 2122:Anthony Hopkins 1998: 1942: 1871: 1860: 1854: 1851: 1836: 1824: 1820: 1813: 1762: 1728: 1698: 1656: 1633: 1387: 1372: 1370:Opening credits 1349: 1306: 1282:—The preceding 1253: 1239: 1208:—The preceding 1207: 1144: 1119: 1115: 1035: 1011: 992: 990:Where's Vanity? 983:Popular culture 969: 933: 910: 881: 590:. According to 410: 268: 236: 218: 205: 182: 181:as John Doe"? 140: 113: 89: 66: 37: 29: 28: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3478: 3476: 3466: 3465: 3460: 3455: 3443: 3442: 3425: 3402: 3389: 3386: 3385: 3384: 3354: 3351: 3350: 3349: 3333: 3332: 3288: 3285: 3284: 3283: 3251: 3248: 3246: 3223: 3222: 3216: 3166: 3165: 3159: 3138: 3137: 3130: 3127: 3125: 3101: 3100:Sleeping Pills 3098: 3097: 3096: 3059: 3056: 3035: 3032: 3015: 3012: 2981: 2978: 2962:138.238.96.100 2957: 2954: 2953: 2952: 2951: 2950: 2949: 2948: 2939: 2938: 2937: 2932: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2894: 2893: 2876:Seven (singer) 2874:should become 2872:Se7en (singer) 2857:Se7en (singer) 2840: 2839:Disambiguation 2837: 2812: 2811: 2810: 2809: 2783: 2776: 2775: 2739: 2738: 2731: 2728: 2727: 2726: 2709: 2697: 2680: 2654: 2629: 2628: 2627: 2626: 2625: 2594: 2582:uses "Seven". 2555: 2537: 2536: 2511:*'''Support''' 2503: 2500: 2477: 2476:Requested move 2474: 2458: 2457: 2445: 2428: 2425: 2424: 2423: 2394: 2391: 2379: 2376: 2374: 2361: 2358: 2324: 2323: 2320: 2319: 2316: 2312: 2311: 2308: 2307:Occupation(s) 2304: 2303: 2297: 2291: 2290: 2285: 2281: 2280: 2275: 2271: 2270: 2265: 2261: 2260: 2256: 2255: 2252: 2251: 2234: 2231: 2230: 2229: 2200: 2197: 2196: 2195: 2184: 2181: 2174: 2170: 2160: 2157: 2142: 2131: 2114: 2106: 2102: 2089: 2086: 2073: 2070: 2066: 2063: 2060: 2052: 2041: 2035: 2031: 2013: 2012: 1997: 1994: 1941: 1938: 1930: 1929: 1926: 1919: 1912: 1905: 1898: 1895: 1892: 1873: 1872: 1827: 1825: 1818: 1812: 1809: 1761: 1758: 1757: 1756: 1727: 1724: 1722: 1720: 1719: 1697: 1694: 1683:Edwardstirling 1655: 1652: 1632: 1629: 1628: 1627: 1626: 1625: 1624: 1623: 1622: 1621: 1605: 1604: 1603: 1602: 1601: 1600: 1583: 1582: 1581: 1577: 1561: 1560: 1559: 1558: 1557: 1556: 1538: 1537: 1536: 1535: 1512: 1511: 1510: 1509: 1503: 1502: 1501: 1500: 1494: 1493: 1492: 1491: 1409: 1408: 1386: 1383: 1371: 1368: 1348: 1345: 1329: 1328: 1325: 1322: 1319: 1316: 1313: 1305: 1302: 1301: 1300: 1277: 1276: 1252: 1249: 1238: 1235: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1201: 1189: 1188: 1183:203.110.28.218 1177: 1176: 1175: 1174: 1143: 1140: 1114: 1111: 1110: 1109: 1108: 1107: 1094: 1093: 1092: 1091: 1081: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1068: 1067: 1034: 1031: 1030: 1029: 1024:65.145.212.173 991: 988: 987: 986: 968: 965: 964: 963: 962: 961: 932: 929: 909: 906: 880: 877: 876: 875: 874: 873: 872: 871: 870: 869: 776: 775: 752: 751: 742: 737: 723: 722: 709: 692: 684: 676: 668: 663: 658: 653: 617: 606: 584: 543: 529: 509: 493: 485: 484: 483: 482: 452: 451: 450: 449: 448: 409: 406: 384: 383: 377: 357: 343: 333: 314: 296: 267: 264: 235: 230: 226:Bill the Greek 217: 214: 204: 201: 200: 199: 198: 197: 196: 195: 194: 193: 139: 136: 124:68.183.228.183 112: 109: 88: 85: 82: 81: 76: 71: 59: 58: 41: 30: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3477: 3464: 3461: 3459: 3456: 3453: 3449: 3448: 3440: 3436: 3432: 3431: 3426: 3419: 3418: 3415: 3414: 3409: 3408: 3401: 3400: 3387: 3383: 3379: 3375: 3371: 3370: 3369: 3368: 3364: 3360: 3352: 3348: 3344: 3340: 3335: 3334: 3331: 3326: 3321: 3315: 3314: 3313: 3312: 3308: 3304: 3299: 3297: 3296:Dr. Beardsley 3292: 3286: 3282: 3278: 3274: 3270: 3269: 3268: 3266: 3262: 3258: 3249: 3247: 3244: 3241: 3237: 3233: 3229: 3219: 3214: 3210: 3206: 3202: 3198: 3194: 3189: 3188: 3187: 3184: 3180: 3176: 3172: 3162: 3157: 3153: 3149: 3145: 3140: 3139: 3136: 3133: 3132: 3128: 3126: 3123: 3121: 3117: 3113: 3112:137.205.31.80 3109: 3099: 3094: 3090: 3086: 3082: 3076: 3075: 3074: 3073: 3069: 3065: 3058:8 deadly sins 3057: 3055: 3054: 3050: 3046: 3042: 3039: 3033: 3031: 3030:cuddybear130 3029: 3025: 3021: 3013: 3011: 3009: 3005: 3001: 2997: 2991: 2987: 2979: 2977: 2976: 2972: 2968: 2963: 2955: 2947: 2944: 2940: 2936: 2933: 2930: 2927: 2926: 2924: 2920: 2919: 2918: 2917: 2916: 2915: 2910: 2906: 2902: 2898: 2897: 2896: 2895: 2892: 2889: 2885: 2881: 2877: 2873: 2869: 2868: 2862: 2858: 2855:Probably. Or 2854: 2853: 2852: 2850: 2846: 2838: 2836: 2835: 2831: 2827: 2823: 2816: 2808: 2804: 2800: 2796: 2792: 2791: 2790: 2787: 2781: 2778: 2777: 2774: 2770: 2766: 2762: 2758: 2754: 2751:redirects to 2750: 2745: 2741: 2740: 2737: 2734: 2733: 2729: 2725: 2721: 2717: 2713: 2710: 2708: 2705: 2701: 2698: 2696: 2692: 2688: 2684: 2681: 2679: 2675: 2673: 2666: 2662: 2658: 2655: 2653: 2649: 2645: 2641: 2637: 2633: 2630: 2624: 2621: 2617: 2613: 2612: 2611: 2607: 2603: 2599: 2595: 2593: 2589: 2585: 2581: 2577: 2576: 2575: 2572: 2568: 2567: 2564: 2560: 2556: 2554: 2550: 2546: 2542: 2539: 2538: 2535: 2533: 2529: 2521: 2517:*'''Oppose''' 2515: 2509: 2506: 2505: 2501: 2499: 2498: 2494: 2490: 2486: 2482: 2475: 2473: 2472: 2469: 2468: 2463: 2456: 2453: 2447: 2446: 2444: 2443: 2439: 2435: 2426: 2422: 2419: 2415: 2411: 2410: 2409: 2408: 2404: 2400: 2392: 2390: 2389: 2386: 2377: 2375: 2372: 2371: 2368: 2359: 2357: 2355: 2354:Paradise Lost 2351: 2347: 2342: 2338: 2333: 2331: 2322: 2321: 2317: 2314: 2313: 2309: 2306: 2305: 2301: 2298: 2296: 2293: 2292: 2289: 2286: 2283: 2282: 2279: 2276: 2273: 2272: 2269: 2266: 2263: 2262: 2257: 2253: 2247: 2242: 2238: 2232: 2228: 2224: 2220: 2216: 2215: 2214: 2213: 2210: 2207: 2198: 2193: 2189: 2185: 2182: 2179: 2175: 2171: 2168: 2164: 2163:David Fincher 2161: 2158: 2155: 2151: 2147: 2143: 2140: 2136: 2132: 2129: 2128: 2123: 2119: 2115: 2111: 2107: 2103: 2101: 2099: 2094: 2090: 2087: 2084: 2083: 2078: 2077:David Fincher 2074: 2071: 2067: 2064: 2061: 2058: 2053: 2050: 2046: 2042: 2039: 2036: 2032: 2029: 2025: 2024: 2019: 2016:Screenwriter 2015: 2014: 2011: 2008: 2007:74.134.255.99 2004: 2000: 1999: 1995: 1993: 1991: 1986: 1984: 1979: 1976: 1973: 1968: 1965: 1960: 1958: 1954: 1950: 1945: 1939: 1937: 1935: 1927: 1924: 1920: 1917: 1913: 1910: 1909:Second Circle 1906: 1903: 1899: 1896: 1893: 1890: 1889: 1888: 1883: 1882:Paradise Lost 1879: 1869: 1866: 1858: 1855:February 2008 1848: 1844: 1840: 1834: 1833: 1828:This article 1826: 1817: 1816: 1810: 1808: 1807: 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1259: 1258: 1257: 1250: 1248: 1247: 1244: 1236: 1234: 1232: 1230: 1225: 1221: 1217: 1216:66.239.85.198 1213: 1212: 1200: 1197: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1187: 1184: 1179: 1178: 1173: 1170: 1166: 1162: 1158: 1157: 1156: 1155: 1154: 1153: 1150: 1141: 1139: 1135: 1131: 1127: 1126:213.210.70.33 1123: 1112: 1106: 1103: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1089: 1085: 1084: 1083: 1082: 1076: 1072: 1071: 1070: 1069: 1066: 1062: 1058: 1054: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1045: 1044: 1041: 1028: 1025: 1021: 1020: 1019: 1015: 1007: 1004: 1001: 998: 995: 984: 980: 979: 978: 977: 974: 973:70.59.142.151 966: 960: 957: 956:Neocapitalist 953: 952: 951: 948: 944: 943: 942: 941: 938: 937:Neocapitalist 930: 928: 927: 924: 919: 918: 915: 907: 905: 903: 899: 895: 891: 884: 878: 868: 864: 860: 856: 855: 850: 849: 844: 843: 838: 837: 832: 831: 826: 825: 820: 816: 812: 811: 810: 806: 802: 798: 793: 792: 791: 788: 784: 780: 779: 778: 777: 773: 770: 765: 764: 763: 762: 759: 756: 750: 746: 743: 741: 738: 736: 733: 730: 729: 728: 727: 721: 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101: 98: 94: 87:Rearrangement 86: 80: 77: 75: 72: 69: 65: 64: 56: 52: 48: 47: 42: 35: 34: 25: 19: 3451: 3434: 3428: 3406:TheFortyFive 3403: 3395: 3391: 3356: 3317: 3303:Vasco Amaral 3300: 3293: 3290: 3253: 3245: 3226:— Preceding 3224: 3208: 3204: 3200: 3196: 3192: 3169:— Preceding 3167: 3151: 3147: 3143: 3134: 3124: 3103: 3085:90.198.74.36 3061: 3043: 3040: 3037: 3020:Cuddybear130 3017: 2986:Chris Carter 2983: 2959: 2934: 2928: 2901:75.18.118.95 2867:Seven (film) 2864: 2842: 2819: 2813: 2779: 2756: 2748: 2735: 2711: 2699: 2682: 2671: 2664: 2656: 2639: 2635: 2631: 2615: 2562: 2558: 2557: 2540: 2525: 2519: 2513: 2507: 2485:Seven (film) 2479: 2466: 2461: 2459: 2451: 2448: 2430: 2413: 2399:71.183.69.18 2396: 2385:Tao of tyler 2383:somewhere.-- 2381: 2378:Kevin Spacey 2373: 2363: 2334: 2327: 2268:Jonathan Doe 2240: 2202: 2191: 2177: 2125: 2118:Kevin Spacey 2096: 2080: 2069:everything." 2038:R. 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