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parakeet group, and had diverged 3.83 million years ago" has multiple problems. First - it is a blatant contradiction if it diverged, it could not be nested "within" and then claimed to be diverged (see the two cladograms to see how the two would differ). Secondly, exactly how important is it that it was found by Hazel
Jackson and the fact that she was British or a geneticist? I think encyclopaedic tone is definitely different from University-Campus-PR-style statements. The same can be said about several of the others which are in fact just not adding value since the primary author is not a parakeet specialist but is the main worker publishing it as part of their doctoral studies. The long term work on parakeets is actually being done by one of the senior/secondary authors. I am not going to contend with the revert but this is just to let editors and reviewers know. In medicine articles there is a guideline that goes like "use a review and not be a review" - unfortunately bird literature is rarely well reviewed in review-style journals but even a review of literature in a thesis will mention authors largely for citation traceability. A more detailed mention of a person would probably be only to examine something of significance, the kinds of methodology used and so on.
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reviews do not be define the style and the reviewers certainly do not guarantee that they understood the methodology used. There is no real value to the reader to note one of the author's names in the text, any interested reader can go into the cited source and follow it up. There must be some value or notability of the authors to actually mention them in the actual text. That no reviewer pointed it out is not a particularly useful defence for inclusion. In most of our collaborative FA articles on bird taxa, the WP:BIRD participants have never gone with such a style of giving so much promotion to the names, nationalities and other descriptors of the authors of scientific articles. We focus on the findings.
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through many rounds of reviews. We can't demand such changes if they are not even based on guidelines, simply put, the writer decides, and there is more than plenty of precedent to not change anything here. It comes down to personal preference, and you're more than free to leave out author introductions when you write articles yourself. As for wording in regard to the specific paper, we simply summarise the literature, we shouldn't intepret it how we personally see fit. That's up for future researchers, if they found issues with earlier studies (and I've added plenty of such responses in other articles as they come around, see for example
1553:
this inconsistency still. As for the wording, the study says "Assuming a calibration of 54 Mya, P. wardi clustered deep within the
Alexandrine Parakeet P. eupatria clade and diverged 2.2 Mya... When the calibration age is extended to 80 Mya, the divergence dates also move further back in time. The P. wardi divergence increases to 3.54 Mya" This simply means that within this group, P. wardi was isolated at this time. It can be a member of the group and still have diverged from it, there is no contradiction, that's just how speciation works.
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Hi, this should probably be moved to the article's talk page instead of being in the concluded GAN page. I can only repeat what I said in my edit summary: "it's how all other studies are presented in the article, no good reason for such internal inconsistency." And I don't see any good arguments for
1783:
Me too, I just follow the IOC. We have to choose one way, be it with or without period, and my preference happens to be the way they do it, without periods. (Changing that format would also further complicate a testing bot that I wrote that compares our entry's taxobox binomial name's
Authority to
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But there is no general usage at all, there is simply consistency within articles, not across. You can find articles that do either, and there are no rules about this. I've included author names and introductions in all of my 60 plus FA nominations of animal articles without any complains, all went
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involved. They also note that they are using an incomplete cytochrome b locus sequence + there are tons of other parameter tweaks that can alter results in sequence matching and phylogenetic software. In this case, the conclusion is poorly worded in the original paper itself. As I said, FA and GA
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Noting my view since several of my edits have been reverted on the grounds that it has been comprehensively reviewed as GA. I note here that a statement like "In 2015, the
British geneticist Hazel Jackson and colleagues found that the Seychelles parakeet was nested deeply within the Alexandrine
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Thanks, fixed some, and will try to fix the last, more complex issues, soon. I also added a bit more context about the history of the
Seychelles to the extinction section if you want to check it out: "The Seychelles islands were covered in thick forests when first described in 1609, and only
1835:
In the end the authorname citation is (just) a bibliographic reference; and it should make clear what underlying text is being referenced. Spaces, periods, initials and years are often dropped as nuisances, and the reference work is not in the reference list anymore when it is assumed to be
1600:
No opinion on the nesting terminology, but I agree that this emphasis on the authors is unusual and distracting. Rather than saying "this is now baked in as per GA", I would rather bring the phrasing in line with general usage by removing the up-front authorship throughout.
1656:, you recently added the initial to the authority based on IOC 13.2, but I somehow can't find the proper site. Could you link it here so I can have a look? I also wonder why it's E instead of E., which I thought would be the norm, but perhaps not in this context?
1731:. Having an initial can help - I've come across authorities on wikipedia without an initial where the wrong person is linked. Whether one adds a period to the initial is a matter of style. A period might be better here for consistency with the references. -
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I don't think there's a 'standard' really (and I find nothing in the code). The comparison is with printed matter where it's probably more common to have a period (and often a space) with each initial, just like in any other well-prepared printed
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preference as such, just what I'm used to seeing. If that's how the relevant literature does it, I'm all for it, I was just wondering why that style is used. Do any of you know if that's the standard abbreviation in zoological contexts?
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The
American ornithologist James Greenway stated in 1967 that while the Seychelles parakeet closely resembled the parrots of the Mascarene islands, it belonged in the Asiatic group that lacks a rosy collar.
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I know it's French, though the source doesn't state so, "vert" is green, but I don't know what "cateau" means, can't find meanings relating to birds when I search online. I do know the local name of the
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One thing I like about the IOC approach is that they make the names unique, unlike some other lists (Clements, for instance). That's useful: IOC has 6 different Miller's, 5 Baker's, and 4 Peters's. -
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inhabited by animals. They were settled in 1768, and native forest was subsequently destroyed, which coincided with the decline of endemic birds and the success of introduced species.".
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found the
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OK, to silence both you and my bot, I've changed the name back to 'Newton, E.' (as I suppose is your preference) and added a term to my bot to allow it. -
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the one given by IOC. But conveniencing a bot is of course not a (good) argument; I'm just mentioning it in passing). -
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I think the nomenclatural implication of claiming that it is "nested" would be rather great. It would imply EITHER that
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Yikes, not sure what happened there (late night editing?), replaced "ruled out" with "concluded".
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I just follow the IOC. An initial is added in cases where there might be ambiguity. There is a
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when i added it (but not from the synonyms). I guess there's nothing more to do here, then.
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was "cateau noir", so I assume "cateau" meant some sort of parrot back then at least...
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Added "wherein he also classified other extant parakeets of Asia and Africa".
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That's everything, only very little issues! Very nice article, great read. --
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Articles created or improved during the WikiProject Africa 10,000 Challenge
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The
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to find out why the initial shouldn't be followed by a period.
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I see they don't use the period, perhaps why it was removed
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Yes, but he doesn't state this outright, unfortunately.
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Presented him and Newton in the intro for consistency.
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replacing the genus name
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1674:: The IOC 13.2 reference with a link is this:
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1309:– But the Alexandrine parakeet is from Asia?
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1232:Yikes, no, fixed this in three (!) places.
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1780:Hi FunkMonk,
1693:. Retrieved
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1491:Alexandrine
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238:project page
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220:Birds portal
163:WikiProjects
131:
114:
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45:please do so
34:
26:
1723:and also a
1695:15 November
1677:Gill, Frank
1513:Seychelles
1439:Seychelles
1186:cateau vert
1080:transcluded
986:There is a
430:Magpie duck
404:Bird flight
303:file(s) be
228:is part of
1870:Categories
1841:Kweetal nl
1800:Kweetal nl
1786:Kweetal nl
1764:Kweetal nl
1725:Newton, A.
1033:Authorship
1019:GA toolbox
800:Seychelles
743:Extinction
734:extinction
706:Extinction
586:Nik Borrow
456:Nidicolous
248:substitute
242:discussion
36:identified
1721:Newton E.
1344:Removed.
1092:Reviewer:
1056:Templates
1047:Reviewing
1012:GA Review
492:Debeaking
465:Cathartes
452:Phalarope
408:Bird bath
396:Bullfinch
1819:FunkMonk
1768:FunkMonk
1762:Pinging
1750:FunkMonk
1705:cite web
1672:FunkMonk
1658:FunkMonk
1630:FunkMonk
1614:contribs
1581:eupatria
1569:eupatria
1555:FunkMonk
1529:FunkMonk
1397:FunkMonk
1383:FunkMonk
1346:FunkMonk
1318:FunkMonk
1290:FunkMonk
1262:FunkMonk
1234:FunkMonk
1206:FunkMonk
1169:FunkMonk
1141:FunkMonk
1105:contribs
1061:Criteria
614:Starling
548:Coal tit
426:Plushcap
420:Copyedit
305:included
153:FA-class
121:Promoted
1604:Elmidae
1586:Shyamal
1536:Shyamal
988:request
895:on the
770:on the
597:Fregata
591:Pytilia
390:Cleanup
338:history
281:on the
80:Process
1733:Aa77zz
1727:– see
1654:Aa77zz
1139:Done.
868:Africa
859:Africa
795:Africa
676:, and
626:Wikify
606:Darter
572:Verify
542:Update
446:Expand
159:scale.
102:Listed
83:Result
1832:text.
1573:wardi
1082:from
647:Other
512:Stubs
348:purge
343:watch
322:To-do
301:audio
254:Birds
182:Birds
29:is a
1845:talk
1823:talk
1804:talk
1790:talk
1772:talk
1754:talk
1737:talk
1711:link
1697:2023
1662:talk
1652:Hi,
1634:talk
1610:talk
1590:talk
1559:talk
1540:talk
1401:talk
1387:talk
1368:talk
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1210:talk
1173:talk
1145:talk
1120:talk
1099:talk
640:more
618:more
564:more
534:more
504:more
486:NPOV
478:more
438:more
412:more
382:more
333:edit
77:Date
1628:).
887:Low
762:Low
273:Mid
1872::
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1707:}}
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