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why I didn't put it on the talk page first. But happy to see that someone else cares. The
Shikharband vs Shikharbaddha issue is actually something that had originally caught my interest, etymologically. I am not sure of your own etymological background, so I wonât get into the linguistic details of the validity of the instrumental tatpurusha samas rather than the genitive variety in this case, but suffice it to say that shikharbaddha is the correct usage, and if you have any etymological arguments against that, I would be very interested to hear them. But, for the present Knowledge discussion, rather than the etymological route, perhaps I would point to a number of scholars who have used the âShikharbaddhaâ terminology, rather than the âshikharbandhâ variant in peer-reviewed journals and books in the English language. The references I have listed at the bottom of the article have mentioned some of these scholars (I could also add Rudert and Nassar, just to mention two others who have used shikharbaddha). Moreover, none of the scholars have used the âShikharbandhâ term in any peer-reviewed journal or book. I thought this point would be clear from my ample citations. So, basically, either âshikharbandhâ is an error, or a local or regional colloquialism, like âainâtâ for âisnâtâ, but proper term is shikharbaddha, and that is what should be used.
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Shikharbandh mandir in Google book search to only two citations of shikharbaddha mandir. I think we should examine this point a little bit more closely. When I looked in Google
Scholar (the search engine of the most reliable sources), I found zero citations for shikharbandh mandir, and two citations for shikharbaddha mandir. Moreover, in comparing the citations in Google Book/Scholar search, none of the citations for âShikharbandh mandirâ are from academic peer-reviewed sources, whereas all four of the citations of âshikharbaddha mandirâ are from academic peer-reviewed sources. Thus according to Knowledge's policy of reliable sources, when there are four academic peer-reviewed sources for shikharbaddha mandir and zero academic peer-reviewed sources for Shikharbandh mandir in Google book/scholar search, I don't think there is much room for debate on which is the correct term to be used for Knowledge. (Also, note, I have cited several academic sources that are not showing up on google scholar, but which can be found in your local university library).
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say that, in this case, the higher number of search terms may not even equal real popularity, if popularity is defined as the number of people who actually use this term. The reason for this paradoxical statement is that, as I looked through some of the websites citing âShikharbandhâ, I was amused to find that a significant portion of them displayed text that was a carbon copy of the âShikharbandh mandirâ article you(?) wrote (the text feed appears to have come straight from
Knowledge). Thus, the inflated numbers of âShikharbandhâ in the Google search results seems to be a direct result of the mistaken use of it in the Knowledge article you(?) wrote. The irony of your initial comment in our discussion was not lost on me as I'm sure it will not be on you.
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incorrect term that may be used as a regional or local dialect in the way that âain'tâ is used instead of âisn'tâ in some parts of the deep South of the United States. However, when writing an article in
Knowledge, it would be incorrect to discard the term Shikharbaddha which is correct according to reliable sources in favor of an incorrect term.
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trust that youâre more familiar than most about the various
Knowledge principles that govern our process. Anybody anywhere can throw a site up on the Internet in a matter of minutes. The number of Google results we see for any particular spelling can change overnight, and is especially vulnerable to manipulation.
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Now, back to the point that popularity does not equal correctness. I donât think we should be looking to Google search results in trying to develop a
Knowledge article, when we have better alternatives. You have a long history of meaningful and positive contributions to numerous Wiki articles, so I
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Yes, the Google search results raise an interesting issue. With the Google search results, I assume that you are attempting to show that the âShikharbandhâ term is more popular, and therefore correct. However, popularity does not equal correctness, which I will address in a second. But first, I would
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AroundTheGlobe, my apologies for any misunderstanding â I didn't intend to accuse you of any wrongdoing, as I operate under the presumption that weâre both acting in good faith to improve this and other articles. I was just illustrating that Google results are fickle and unreliable, and your point
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Thank you, Around the Globe, for the interest. Actually, the reason for making the move without discussing it on the talk page first is quite simple â the article has been a stub for almost 2 years, with no edits and minimal page views, so I thought no one would really be interested in it, which is
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Kanchanmala, thanks for your input and I appreciate the dialogue we have going. However, Hinduism-related articles need to be consistent and relevant to all â focusing just on what works in
Gujarati or some other regional language will only lead to petty disputes in many other articles (India has
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Moreover, the actual term youâve used in our discussion is âShikarband.â The
Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain & Ireland, published by Cambridge University Press (p. 570), defines that precise spelling as âornamental tassels at the corners of a saddleâ. This is clearly an
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Also, the sources youâve listed under âShikarbandâ Temple are actually for sources under âShikHarbandhâ temple. These four sources refer to a Jain mandir, not a Hindu mandir. The sources you and I have cited, when reconciled, make it clear that
Shikarband Temple is a term for Jain mandirs, where
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I also often go to Google search results to see the popularity of a particular search term in the case I have no other reliable sources. Of course, in this case, I have provided reliable, peer-reviewed sources that use the term
Shikharbaddha mandir. You did mention that there are four citations of
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But let me return to my main point, and allow me to reiterate that, in a situation when more authoritative resources are available, we shouldnât be looking solely to Google products as compelling authority at all â there are exponentially more scholarly sources in print that one can access at any
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It is not surprising to me that the academic peer-reviewed sources use the shikharbaddha mandir since that is the etymologically correct term (again, I would be very interested to see any etymological arguments for the correctness of Shikharbandh mandir). Shikharbandh, as I mentioned before is an
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Also, you speculate that âshikarbandhâ might be an appropriate term to use in non-Sanskrit languages such as Gujarati, but in reality, it is a âtat-samâ Gujarati word and thus an exact borrowing from the Sanskrit, so it is not correct in Gujarati. Please also see above â the term âshikarbandhâ
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about mirror sites and IP address-related variations only supports my argument to that end. When I search for âshikharbandh temple,â I get only two sources (âteerth darshanâ and âawadh under the nawabsâ). Further, the word âshikharbandhâ gives me zero matches in Google Books and Google Scholar.
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First of all, I strongly object to any allegations of search engine result inflation. Take any article from Knowledge and there will be loads of mirrors. That does not mean the person who has written the article on Knowledge has gone about distributing the content everywhere. Google results are
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With regard to using Google Books results, I addressed this point in my last post. Google Scholar has more reliable and appropriate sources, given their academic and peer-reviewed status. Knowledge policy thus strongly supports using these instead of Google Books. To reiterate, here are the
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makes clear that anywhere on Knowledge, we do not look at which side of a contested issue âhas the most votesâ â we instead look at which version emerges as the more objective, verifiable truth. (quoting WP:Democracy: we determine consensus âthrough editing and discussion, not votingâŠpolls or
510:âShikharbaddhaâ temple is used to refer to Hindu mandirs, which is what this Knowledge article is about. If there is to be an article for âshikharbandh mandirs,â it will pertain to the Jain place of worship. An article about Hindu mandirs, however, must use the spelling âshikharbaddha.â
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dozens of languages â we shouldnât set up articles as a forum for each to push for why their spelling is âbetterâ). The word shikharbaddha can directly and indisputably be traced to its Sanskrit origins, which is the best âneutralâ criterion to use in this situation.
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http://books.google.com/books?id=IgbBfLuO6jsC&pg=PA570&dq=shikarband&hl=en&ei=MJP_Td68HKKv0AH6kISSAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=shikarband&f=false
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1. Encyclopaedia of cities and towns in India: Volume 1 by Narasimhiah Seshagiri 2. Lucknow monuments by YogeĆa PravÄ«na 3. Progressive Jains of India by Satish Kumar Jain 4. Haryana district gazetteers: Volume 3 (Haryana Govt)
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Kim, Hanna. Public Engagement and Personal Desires: BAPS Swaminarayan Temples and their Contribution to the Discourses on Religion. International Journal of Hindu Studies. (Springer). 2010. See editorial board:
346:, I provided a number of examples of and citations to scholars who have adopted the spelling I used in this article. Iâd welcome a discussion that presents credible support for any alternative spelling.
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known to slightly vary depending on the IP location. In any case, I would not stoop down to such a level of blowing up search engine results to make my point - and thinking I would is absurd.
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Well, the google results for Shikharband Mandir are 713 and google book result is 4. Whereas the new spelling of Shikharbaddha Mandir has a google result of 411 and google book result of 2.
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1. A Postcolonial People: South Asians in Britain - Page 379 by N. Ali, V. S. Kalra, S. Sayyid 2. Cities in transition: transforming the global built enviroment - Page 47 by Tasleem Shakur
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without mentioning it on the talk page? You cite this spelling being used in the article for the change - however its you who changed the spelling in the article as well!
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South Asian Ethnoscapes: the changing cultural landscapes of British cities'. N Nasser - Global Built Environment Review, 2003 (Copyright © Edge Hill University 2006)
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surveys sometimes impede rather than assist discussionâ). Search engine results are precisely the type of straw poll that Knowledge expressly warns against.
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The word "shikhara-baddha" can be coined in Sanskrit, but I am not familiar with it. "Shikarband" is probably okay in Gujarati and other Indian languages.
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As I pointed out before, these sources are more reliable and consistent with WP guidelines than those using ââshikharband.ââ
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Rudert, Angela Carol. Inherent Faith and Negotiated Power: Swaminarayan Women in the United States. â Cornell University
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actually describes ornamental tassels at the corners of the saddle according to the Cambridge University Press.
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Cities in transition: transforming the global built environment Tasleem Shakur. Open House Press, 2005 - 206 pages
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In any case, using search engine results as some sort of proxy for âfactsâ is not an optimal method of research.
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N. Ali, V. S. Kalra, S. SayyidA Postcolonial People: South Asians in Britain. Columbia University Press, 2008
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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academic library, and these (which Iâve already referenced) clearly support using Shikharbaddha.
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what is the first arti called that is performed at a shikharbaddh mandir
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Hi, just wanting to know why you (User:Hindu Pundit) made the move from
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