3713:. That page includes a lengthy discussion of Tangerine Dream's historic contributions in the context of space music, as well as newer artists who, as Dilaberto states in regards to one of them, "employs the vernacular of space music suffused with much more contemporary electronica grooves and structures." That's just one example, but it shows there are third parties with other viewpoints. In this case the alternate viewpoint is sourced, from a radio show with a long history, presented by an on-air host, interviewer and writer considered by many to be a recognized authority in this field, and unconnected with Hearts of Space.
3531:(1) When space music was named in 1973, the musical genre term "ambient" didn't exist. That means you must use historic revisionism to make a claim that HOS/SpM is ambient genre. If you claim SpM and ambient are the same, then it's the other way around: historically, spacey and ambient music would both be named space music, because the ambient name got to the dock after the space music genre ship had left. But SpM/HOS fans don't think they are the same, rather that they cross over, and only cross over part way.
3537:(3) While it's true that "space music" is music programmed by HOS, through a Hill and Turner taste-format filter, the inverse is not true: HOS does not program just any music. It's not an eclectic DJ show mixing catch-all "multiple musical genres". At its foundation, the SpM claim to genre is psychoacoustic. Analogous to rock (and roll)'s psychoacoustic feel of the beat, space music evokes a psychoacoustic sensation of travel through spaces, many of which are not perceived as physical spaces.
3499:. HOS is a pioneering ambient music radio show with a devoted listener-base. In this it closely resembles a number of other similar shows. The HOS producers coined the catch-all term "space music" to describe the show's overarching tone, which may be created by segue mixing tracks from multiple musical genres. As such, "space music" is not a musical genre in its own right, but merely a term applied to music that in the majority of cases is broadly synonymous with various permutations of
3752:? Why are you so aggressive towards me just because I don't agree with your POV on a subject? I accept that you know who Dilaberto is and you don't respect him or his views. Even so, since he has a long history of creating and discussing content on the subject of this article and many other forms of music, even if you don't agree with him, what's wrong with including a reference to the stuff he's written in building consensus that can improve the article about Space music?
3534:(2) Space music is a significant portion acoustic Celtic, acoustic Tibetan-Buddhist chant, and western religious choral genres, which have ancient genre roots of their own. None of those three+ genre musician/fan groups are going to accept a notion that their traditional genres are now to be known as ambient. And if they aren't ambient, then neither is space music in its entirety; therefore, space music logically cannot be either a subset, or a type of, ambient music.
2502:ā¢ Note that the quote and comment style I'm using above is generally better for thread continuity, when responding to one post with multiple issues. It avoids having readers not notice your inserted comments, since they usually jump to the bottom of the thread. It's also faster to read and to respond without jumping around. But inserting is occasionally the best choice in an established thread with several participants who are actively conversing at the bottom.
4130:
31:
401:. The meaning of "multidimensional gradients". To be honest, I thought the given answer was obvious. In fact, I think you knew it all along, and you're just having us on, to try and trap us in a cunning, erm, trap. My favourite bit was ""Multidimensional" in this context means that multiple sonic characteristics are each transitioning on a gradient, and sometimes these gradients transition simultaneously with time".
2504:ā¢ Insert commenting is somewhat intrusive, so it's taking a liberty with someone else's post that must be done skillfully. Be aware that some editors will object, and you should stop if they complain. They are less likely to object if you keep the visual noise level low by using plain text in as few characters as possible. When you are copying from the signature for insert commenting:
121:) with his 1978 album "Ambient #1 / Music for Airports", but he had become well known in the USA long after MFTHOS (Music From The Hearts of Space) debuted on KPFA, Berkeley in 1973. Unknown is whether Eno, an Englishman, ever heard a tape of the original San Francisco Bay Area MFTHOS. ā Stephen Hill does use the word ambient twice in his web page's opening descriptive paragraph.
1671:
Hill and Turner's musical vision was so powerful that it created a fancult among public radio listeners. Those who haven't listened to many episodes of Hearts of Space probably can't "get it", and even many who have listened aren't fans (as with any other genre). Editors who can't or don't relate to a particular genre have only a limited role to play in documenting it.
1870:? I did so in paragraph one. If it isn't obvious, Burmer and Hedges are both deceased, and they both received tribute shows on HOS. The links verify their birth and death dates, briefly describe their careers, and provide an expert retrospective selection of their best compositions ā all of which makes for easier musicology in an otherwise difficult-to-access genre.
3084:
get the impression that he's hell-bent on (a) denying any links to ambient and (b) explicitly keeping any and all references to H.o.S. To be honest, I doubt very much that a compromise is possible, and that ANY article any of us writes will not be appreciated by all. It is the way of things. We'll see what happens by the time I first specified. This is fun.
2881:- have ended up imploding or being banned by the Arbcom. If you wish to join the list, you are more than welcome to try - but I wouldn't recommend it. I suggest that it would be far more productive for you to familiarise yourself with Knowledge's editing policies and adhere to them, otherwise your time here is likely to be both frustrating and brief. --
78:, due to the page exceeding 200 KB. All comments prior to June 2007 were archived. There were no comments here between the end of March 2007 and the entries below, however the archived page contains earlier comments directly relating to the current debates. Interested editors are welcome to review the archived pages for complete context. --
3231:. (A number of space music composers don't want to be associated with New Age as a music, because it can be confused with a religion ā that's provable I think.) While space music isn't a religion, it's so closely associated with one that you can't automatically assume it will go out of style the way that non-religious musics do.
128:, Lou Reed, 1975, 1998, 2000) that would probably never be heard on HOS (or anywhere else in its entirety). ā Furthermore, Space music is not a subgenre of Ambient because, for just one example, traditionally rooted music such as whistle Celtic is regularly played on HOS. Whistle Celtic is also played on public radio's
3887:
Furthermore, it only mentions ambient electronics, not ambient music. To the contrary, it supports a partly opposite view, that almost any music (which includes ambient music) having a slow pace and space-creating sound images could be called spacemusic. Alternative to deleting the opening statement,
3249:
What I don't know, is in what proportion is HOS' influence to the "album" space music scene in the U.S.; or, perhaps more important to the music business here, how much HOS play drives the purchase of space music albums found in the New Age bin here. As a generalization though, music producers in the
3207:
was something silly that a few thousand grandma-age foreigners did long before you were born, and that you probably don't much care about anyway. If so, so be it, but your POV about HOS as a commercial radio show seems weird over here in public radio land. Hill is not anything like a huckster, nor is
2946:
I agree that you aren't going to find "Hill-Turner" in a search, because everyone else knows that as 'the kind of music compilations invented by Hill and Turner as produced in the HOS public radio shows, and the MFTHOS KPFA shows before that'. Defined abbreviations are permitted in writing
Knowledge.
2476:
Hehe, that's not me. Like millions of other families, mine has musicians and public speakers, so a 'performance ego' is normal to us. With the continuing rise of global video mass media like U-Tube, it may already be normal for children to learn that they can stage-present themselves to the world. In
2368:
I'm sorry to hear your family made you feel inferior to everyone. What a jip. Alas, your views on
British culture are askew, I'm afraid. If anything - and this is particularly true in Scotland - we're generally taught to regard individualism as a worthy characteristic, and to consider people who take
2360:
On the other hand, I'm told that UK families are typically raised in crowded housing, and train their children to shrink their egos, in order to preserve privacy and family harmony. UK children are taught to say the things you are saying to me when others begin to expand their egos beyond the comfort
2328:
I'm theatrically trained and I have helped train many others to perform. That means one person performing to many on stage, radio, TV, movies, publishing, etc. This usually isn't possible to do well unless, one has an ego size equal to the perceived size of the audience's collective ego; and, one has
1670:
The article that I wrote is specifically about Hill-Turner space music, since it was the original type. What I wrote is much closer to being categorically correct than are other music articles, because it's a genre of music more or less defined by only one or two living persons, notably
Stephen Hill.
1509:
You do not "own" this - or any other - article. It is the responsibility of all editors to correct errors or expunge POV opinion pieces unsupported by reliable third party references sources from any articles whose content is muddied by their presence. This was most certainly one such article. It was
4044:
The process of ranking artists and composers is one of the most important steps in musicology. I suggest it's the most important step, since a music catalog or album sales figures are data so much larger and harder to manage. Furthermore, except for those few that were added later, I vetted those in
3935:
In the intro though, I would prefer to see a third point added (iii) that indicates some people find that space music is not always ambient. If
Gardner of Geda is willing to accept this, I'd like to see the article take on more of the form he has proposed. Without that third option though, then we
3897:
Clearly understand, that if you repeat here your well-known style as a tendenciously reverting editor, it will not be tolerated by me. If you do not follow the rules for sourced statements with talk page debate and consensus, you will be reported for disruptive editing. Your tendentious history will
3765:
If you truly believe I am not an individual and I am actually a sock puppet of some other user, I warmly invite you to begin a formal procedure to find out if this is true or not. I can make this invitation because I know it's not true. If you don't want to begin the formal procedings though, then
3580:
I independently had almost the same thought before you posted. It could be that the
Commonwealth nations bought into Eno's ambient fame (I like Eno, too), and simply assumed that spacey compositions had always been known as ambient. If that's true, I'm starting to understand why you and Gardener are
3211:
Hill has said he's been urged to keep doing shows as long as he possibly can. It's due to a fancult love of music deeply rooted in a historic time and place, that is unique in my music, radio, and cultural experience. I was in a meeting many years ago, where a guest speaker on radio with no previous
3083:
It's early days yet for the article - I'll keep chipping away at it till I get something that satisfies as many as possible. I'll try a further rewrite tomorrow. I agree that the opening is as you say; it was merely an attempt to "soften the blow", as it were, for the redoubtable
Milomedes, though I
2150:
It's difficult for me to understand why you think I should be light and happy, when you refuse to cooperate under established consensus editing rules, and especially when I have to do your work for you. Since strict verification rules were laid on my "light and happy" version of the article (without
995:
is merely stating an opinion - an opinion which may very well be correct. The article, as it currently stands, is hugely point-of-view ("What space music is not" and "What space music is", for instance). It simply cannot exist in that form much longer, and badly needs a rewrite. And be careful - you
315:
By HOS numbers of 119 playlist hits, Vangelis is a more important example of highly selective meta composition. Vangelis has composed albums or parts of them that are unpleasant, not at all spacey, or (according to a space fan correspondent) just boring. Yet
Stephen Hill obviously considers Vangelis
3952:
Hi-eeeee!! I've had this page off my watchlist for the last 5/6 days, and I see things haven't changed much. I've made a few minor changes to my article, which should go a long way to not solving the problem, but such is life, as they say. The infobox needs attention, and a big change I made was to
3793:
Back to the subject of the article. You made a broad statement that "Diliberto's comments, and the content of his broadcasts, do not support your POV." What did you mean by that? Did you read the article I referenced? In what way does
Dilaberto's article not support my suggestion that there are
3704:
I must differ regarding statement two. While much spacemusic is ambient, some spacemusic is not ambient. For example some of
Tangerine Dream's albums evoke the feeling of space travel and expansiveness but would be difficult to experience as environmental or background music, due to their melodic
3117:
It's only possible to achieve consensus if everyone edits in good faith. I'm far from convinced that that is currently possible here. I think it might be a good idea to see if we can iniate a checkuser request, to try to sort out exactly how many people are really contributing to this discussion. I
3000:
As to the extended Google searches - I honestly don't think they're necessary. The ones already present are merely there to prove a point - that your usage of the terms was heavily POV. (Additional noteĀ : I don't expect the 'Referencing Google' section would be included in the final draft). I don't
2935:
Whew, hehe, it's currently got some heavy POV, but I like it as a starting proposal. Really, before anything else, and never mind our personal views, we have to consense on the provable relationship between Space music, Ambient, Electronic, and New Age, since that cascades into what the rest of the
2517:
The enclosing square "editor's brackets" are traditional and ethically important to disclose whether the original text was edited by someone else. By not copying the "User:xxx|" part, that keeps the username from colorizing and avoids a reader's hasty misunderstanding that the orignal author used a
1931:
Musicologists need an overview that can only be provided here. The graduate musicologist I met wanted to know how many composers were dead, and others like him, barely interested, aren't going to look at all the individual pages to find them. Even if you don't realized it, I think you are trying to
1897:
If any artists on the list are dead, links confirming that should be added to their individual articles. There's no reason for external links of that nature to be included here. Whether they are dead or alive has no bearing on whether they create/d music in the genre that is this article's subject.
1679:
What I decided to do, given the slack provided by the art and music
Wikiguide, was accept the general Knowledge invitation to tell Knowledge what I knew about Hill-Turner space music. When there is controversy, the Knowledge NPOV way is to tell the POVs of each of the sides. If there is one opinion
1555:
Please do not post incoherent nonsense on talk pages. It is disrespectful to other editors. If you do not possess sufficient proficiency in written English to communicate with other editors in a clear, concise, rational manner, you may be better served by contributing to the version of Knowledge in
3472:
You can't determine that without negotiating, and you have withdrawn from negotiating before your positions are clearly known, much less understood by me. You won't even confirm or deny my restatement of your apparent positions, which is a standard negotiating procedure, to make sure that one does
2876:
I have a long, long history as a respected contributor to Knowledge, collaborating with dozens of editors in the creation of dozens of articles on a huge variety of subjects over a period of more than 4 years. During this time I have been attacked from time to time by numerous assorted POV-pushers
2205:
Back to content editing, I am actually interested in your viewpoint, which I take to be of "album" space music, rather than "Hill-Turner" space music. I'm also interested in whether the Euro view of SpM is really any different from the North American, other than that Hearts of Space probably isn't
1284:
I should like to know what the relation between space musik and Kosmische Musik is. The list of artists suggests that Kosmische Musik is a subcategory of space music, but is it considered the progenitor of space music, or is it just space music that happens to be German? Is there any difference in
370:
can mean any characteristic that has a range of variation between two extremes. "Multidimensional" in this context means that multiple sonic characteristics are each transitioning on a gradient, and sometimes these gradients transition simultaneously with time. For example, the pitch of a note may
296:
For radio, unpleasant sounds can't be "as important" (an equality), since half of the showcased pieces would sound unpleasant. Neither Hearts of Space nor Echoes typically sound like that, since they feature an uplifting type of show music for which the public is historically willing to pay money.
3548:
In its original Eno definition, ambient was background music, listened to at low volume in the background of doing something else. If ambient promoters are now claiming that ambient is (also) foreground music, there's two problems: (a) the "ambient" name doesn't ring true, and (b) space music was
2632:
I want to work on a consensus article with editors who know the subject, and are actually interested in it. Your previous edits demonstrated that you knew essentially nothing about Hill-Turner space music, so I have to wonder if you actually know much about album space music, given your ideologue
2526:
True, I don't know it first hand. I assume the crowded housing ethic would be more in England than Scotland. I suppose the Scots individualism is like the U.S. "old west" personality, but without the Texas-type boastfulness. It still sounds to me like "reserve", keeping one's (large) ego to one's
2227:
That's better. You sounded .... "real", there. At ease with the world. Canomile tea instead of coffee sort-of-thing. Yes. Good. Well. By the way, you seem to give too much precedence to that commercial radio station thing. Seems unhealthy to me; but whatever rubs your thigh, as they probably say,
1814:
Specifically, these are links to deceased artists' dates and tributes, which are of strong interest to musicologists. Last summer, a graduate musicologist knowledgable of space music told me he had no interest in any living composer (since conclusive composer analysis requires a completed body of
1676:
I may have listened to more episodes of HOS than anyone else at Knowledge, but merely because what I wrote about Hill-Turner SpM is factual, doesn't make it reliable source verifiable. Indeed, it may be impossible to WP:RS verify the musicology of Hill-Turner space music, since it is such a small
3641:
Yes. 1. The first part of the statement is unsourced. 2. The statement as a whole is irrelevant. That Eno coined the term "ambient", or that he did it in 1978 is a matter of no consequence. "Ambient" is the term universally applied to certain types of music - including "space music" - today. And
2046:
However, first, there appears to be a problem with rules compliance on the second request. I see that you have deleted the second fact tag citation request about the claim "synonym for beatless ambient". Your first citation says nothing about "beatless ambient", so please explain that second tag
3603:
Your propensity for posting eccentric, misguided and badly-informed original reasearch on this subject is admirable - if only for the sheer volume of impenetrable prose involved. Unfortunately it has no relevance to this article unless you can support your POV with reliable third party sources.
1673:
I can't cite the exact Wikiguide, but somewhere there is (or was last year) a guide that says that art and music articles are allowed to contain much more opinion than other articles, because art and music are by nature much more subjective than science or history. In other words, art and music
1212:
I've re-written this article to conform with Wiki NPOV and verifiability policies. This has necessitated the wholesale removal of the "what it is" and "what it isn't" sections, as they were basically one person's highly eccentric and subjective POV, unsupported by any reference sources. I don't
3894:
Since that could take a long time, I understand that you are standing aside from negotiating a talk page consensus with which to edit a sourced article. This means that if myself and/or other editors enter article statements with validly supporting sources, you may not remove them or make them
1829:
I prefer consensus art-music editing expressing a wide range of opinions, but by your constructive editing example of wholesale deletion of knowledgeable analysis-opinion (mine), Space music is now a fully-referenced opinion-free article. That's not my choice, but since you have constructively
1133:
I don't think that he's claiming that at all. He's merely stating his opinion in an article that is ALL opinion. And so are you. And the reason that he's "let to come here" is because Knowledge is an encyclopedia that no-one "owns" and ANYONE can edit. I suggest you try to understand that very
3476:
Ok, my understanding is that you are now standing aside from editing the article. I'd prefer to negotiate with you, but that's your choice. It seems like the next step is an RfC. If I write an RfC, expect to see your stand-aside exit positions being written as (1), (2), and (3) listed above.
3779:
You might consider that even if some of the other users you believe are sock puppets actually are sock puppets, and even if I, as an individual user, happen to agree with some of the statements of users who might be using the sock puppets you are researching... that does not make me a sock
3726:
The context of Diliberto's comments, and the content of his broadcasts, do not support your POV. In any case, I do not propose to engage in further discourse on this subject until the nature of various suspected sockpuppet accounts posting on these topics is clarified via a formal checkuser
3131:
Intriguing! Far be it from me to comment. As everyone knows, I'm not the kinda guy to get involved in trouble of any kind. I wouldn't want my spotless reputation to become shattered. I've just read through the latest round of complaints against you - I certainly hope you can manage to get a
596:
Can someone patrol this article please? It has been a good article for months, but the user Gene Poole seems to want to destroy its sense and quality as he did with the Ambient music article thanks to his "rave subculture" - influenced point of view. I do not want to start an edit war.
1664:
Thank you for documenting my role in expanding the space music article. As analysis, it's probably one of my lifetime best pieces. I don't accept that the classic version is discredited. We'll just have to agree to disagree about that. However, we may be comparing apples to oranges.
3284:(3) My comment on the fact that you place too much emphasis on them is, again, related to their presence in this article. They're just a radio station. They DO NOT have any say as to what is, or isn't, space music. No more than anyone else, I mean. Your insistence that they are
181:
I recall pondering whether to include that line... Since you have stated the Roxy facts, I'll cut that reference from my edited answer comment above. My reporting error of late vs. early 1970's aside, who cofounded Roxy is elsewhere (mis)reported as including Eno (see Knowledge
3057:
and which cannot be included unless substantially rewritten. I also see the opening statement as problemmatic, as it does not accurately state that spacemusic is a type of ambient music. The suggested opening is weasel-wording at its finest and cannot be included in that form.
2866:ā¢ Specifically, I will watch your interactions with Doktor Who. If you act abusively or attempt to intimidate or belittle him because of his English as a second language skills, including suggesting that he should go elsewhere because of his language skills, I will report you.
3544:
One can turn nearly all space music into ambient by playing it at low volume in the background, but only evocative ambient can be turned into space music by thus inverting figure and ground. (If one turns up SpM-like ambient and it doesn't evoke, it's likely to be New
4062:
you can provide some kind of attributed rankings, that would be a reasonable way to procede toward my consensus with your Commonwealth viewpoint of space music. That would also help us figure out what "album space music" might formally be, at least by artist profile.
2146:
So be it. Your unacceptable editing behavior is being logged. Consider yourself warned to not repeat it. If you persist, you will be reported ā but, I don't think that's going to happen. My impression is that you are respectful of boundaries once you know where they
4055:
Reasonable people can disagree as to who exactly should be on the list, based on various objective rankings. If the current list could be titled "Hearts of Space Notable Artists", and you wish to add a second list titled, say, "Album space music Notable Artists",
3224:, with MFTHOS in '73 being still a time of that useless war, Vietnam. Of course, space music was a small scene compared with Hendrix, et al, but acid rock was superficial noise compared to evocative space music. Space music has lasted far beyond a passing fashion.
511:
As far as Oldfield, he is a key figure in progressive instrumental rock, which Stephen Hill definitely cites as one of the elements contributing to space music (e.g. Pink Floyd and Tangerine Dream). He has only had Oldfield a few times on the show, however,
2290:ā¢ Not commercial radio, HOS is on USA public radio stations, as is the National Public Radio (NPR) network. Public radio is considered highbrow culture in the USA, more or less like the BBC's reputation in UK. I share your low opinion of commercial radio.
2432:. That is the attempt to subvert larger goals and principles by invoking petty or technical rules. What you are actually objecting to is my citation of consensus work rules in the attempt to achieve the larger goal of getting the encyclopedia written.
3212:
lead in context about music or space, suddenly declared that Stephen Hill was one of, if not the best, radio announcers on the air. That truth had not previously occurred to me, since I assumed I was almost the only person in my town listening to him.
2361:
level of the family. However, in every country there are emotionally abusive families who carry this too far and simply try to make their children feel inferior to everyone. Sometimes such children go into show or music business as a form of therapy.
2293:ā¢ You've made quite a few indirect references to my ego size, "pompous", "takes himself too seriously" and so on. You're entitled to your opinion, and I can handle it, but it might be helpful if you understood why you are saying those things to me.
2103:
require editing, pain or no pain. I stand by everything I said. Don't like it? Edit it. I'm sure your edits will be very well referenced (feh!) and referred to as "classic" .... by yourself. Let's do that Wiki thing! Happy editing! And lighten up!
1580:
I've just had a look through the article's history, which throws an interesting light on things. The individual who keeps reverting to the "old", POV, pretentiously-written, original-research article (and who keeps deleting the line which equates
3874:^ "... Originally a 1970s reference to the conjunction of ambient electronics and our expanding visions of cosmic space ... In fact, almost any music with a slow pace and space-creating sound images could be called spacemusic." - Stephen Hill. (
619:
article that are clearly ridiculous, and could use some editing. So please don't make subtle threats about possible "edit wars". It's not nice. You obviously don't like Gene - that's your problem. Has it anything to do with the fact that he's
2939:
I'd rather discuss it here, if you don't mind, otherwise new editors will get thread-confused about things that were discussed over there. With a split debate, it's also more likely that there will be disputes about who consensed to what and
3431:
I doubt that any consensus is possible on this article. Unfortunate, but true, alas. Polarisation seems to be absolute. There are articles to write, and a life to lead. I'll keep my eye on it, but - for the time being - I'm going to follow
3839:
article almost in its entirely, and replaced with your own equally unreferenced edition. Therefore the current article has zero of my POV. The current opening statement in the article for which I had requested a {{fact}} tag citation is
2648:
is that you are at risk of becoming entangled in formal Knowledge disciplinary procedures, especially if you fail to accept that you have consensus editing peers, including those (everyone?) that know more about space music than you do.
3181:
You certainly have that factually wrong. HOS is on 300 NPR stations last time I checked. Since there are 50 to 100 major radio-TV markets in the U.S., that means HOS is available most places in the U.S. using a long range FM antenna if
2598:
5. Those who do not understand formal written English with sufficient capacity to conduct meaningful discourses on subjects to which they wish to contribute should limit contributions to versions of Knowledge in their native language.
310:
12-Nov-1993), but later they and DCD's soloist Lisa Gerrard (68 hits), prominently featured in October (e.g., #471 'Gathering Gloom" 31-Oct-1997, Halloween). Not everyone likes DCD/Gerrard's artistry, but I wouldn't call it unpleasant.
236:. They were on a list of artists who were featured on my favorite HOS shows, artists who's popularity I verified with the HOS playlist server. ā I've previously skimmed Kosmische Musik, and I'll put a heavy read of it on my to-do list.
795:
He hasn't written there for months. Someone (like him, for example) exagerately takes care for the post-Eno/neo rave definition of ambient (Jah Wabble, Bill Laswell, The Orb, and so on). I cant help more, sorry, I'm too busy with real
2078:
genre or form can be taken seriously without enough dead composers. His attitude was based on the pragmatics of a musicology career search rather than the academic merits of space music seriousness per se. Otherwise, I agree with you
3564:"In any case, we will write what we can prove, whether about HOS or albums, and that may not be much. As a practical matter, the HOS web site is likely to be the major source of provable facts about space music, since it meets the
3219:
fame) called "the consciousness side of the Sixties" on one of his spoken word albums. HOS fits there. Stephen Hill and the late Anna Turner are minor legends who emerged in the San Francisco Bay Area, following the arc of the '67
3241:
In any case, we will write what we can prove, whether about HOS or albums, and that may not be much. As a practical matter, the HOS web site is likely to be the major source of provable facts about space music, since it meets the
2142:
Worse still, you want me to waste my edit time cleaning up your mistake. I assume that you wouldn't like it if another editor did this to you, but even if you think such behavior is acceptable, most other editors at Knowledge do
301:
HOS often produces one late October show per year that is seasonally and musically "dark", spooky, edgy, intense, or disturbing in ways that evoke the supernatural. These shows are not always dissonant or necessarily unpleasant.
2524:"...your views on British culture are askew, ... in Scotland - we're generally taught to regard individualism as a worthy characteristic, and to consider people who take themselves too seriously to be somewhat ...... "lacking" "
2734:. Itās also offensive and disrespectful, and the best way of avoiding it is if the offending party limits their contributions to a forum where they are both able to fully comprehend others, and , in turn, be understood by them.
1932:
suppress the musicology research of space music as a separate entity, as part of your territorial professional position that SpM is a subgenre of ambient. If you remove those timeline references or links, I will report you for
2329:
the performing competence to match. One simply gets used to this larger ego size while associating with people in show and music business. What ultimately matters is whether they are competent in proportion to their ego size.
1223:
It's always a shame to delete so much from an article, particularly when you think that it meant so much to whoever wrote it in the first place ...... but I, for one, agree with the deletions in this case. It most definitely
3549:
already foreground before ambient was named. To make (b) a bit more emphatic, space music to its inner fancult was always primarily headphone music. It isn't possible for music to become more foreground than with headphones.
2013:
is quite undefinable in a purely encyclopaedic way, as the term is too loaded with opinion, and too closely associated with commercial interests, who, it seems to me, simply use it as an alternative to the much-derided term
1494:
Unless that person is myself, any edit should be welcome. It has been edited by a dozen of editors in 3 years, and none complained. Now, after my first attempts at rewriting it according to criteria that have some sense for
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it needs to be modified so the reference supports it. A validly supported statement would be 'Some ambient music is a type of spacemusic.', However, that is not suitable as an opening statement for a space music article.
1605:
Sometimes associated as a sub-category of Ambient music, space music itself offers interpretations of other popular genres, among them: Electronic, Sacred/Choral, Piano, Trance, Celtic, Native American, World Fusion, and
1213:
believe the deleted content has any intrinsic value that isn't already covered by other more appropriate articles - but if anyone thinks otherwise please feel free to restore anything considered an essential inclusion. --
2512:
copy the underlined part, navigate to the insert location, type (square brackets), paste in between the brackets, delete the ]] from the pasted copy, and add the "continued below" message prior to the closing bracket:
1818:
In general, such links are references to prove these are notable space music artists. A few on the list are not. I had verified many on the list, but until your arrival, the need to actually reference them didn't seem
362:
The many users of graphics programs like PhotoShop are familiar with color and shade gradients. However, sonic gradients transition with audible time rather than visible distance. Glissando is a gradient of pitch with
2042:
Thank you for the attempt at a citation. In due course, we will take up your points in the debate on the first citation request ("Space music is a type of ambient music"), and the appropriateness of your citation for
2864:ā¢ I've read your history of interacting with other editors and it's a long and uncivil one. I'm advised that each time that you don't comply with the rules, to report you, and to do so on a daily basis if necessary.
3200:, i.e, just another radio show. But it's not. There's a persistent public radio fancult backing it up. Scattered thinly and very quiet, I'm told by public radio member-drive staff, but HOS listeners live everywhere.
2612:
1. You look a lot like an attempted owner to me. Your previous unconsensed wholesale deletions deepen that suspicion. Your unproved territorial claims to this genre make the suspicion of attempted ownership greater
3195:
I realize you don't "get it" about HOS. That's why I asked you to do the additional searches (I know they don't go into the final article, but a good idea). You probably think HOS is more-or-less like Diliberto's
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Being similar to statement two, you wrote that opening statement, so it's your POV, not mine. If you want that statement to remain in the article, you will have to support it with a valid reference. According to
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to be an important HOS contributor ā if his segue pieces are carefully selected. An analogy is adding a small proportion of a bitter cooking spice, which provides contrast to an otherwise cloyingly sweet recipe.
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Except for one thing. Hill defines space music as music which evokes or creates a sense of mental "space" or place -- mental videos, or what we used to call eyelid movies. Much of Oldfield's music, particularly
1348:
It looks to me like "kosmische musik" is a subset of "krautrock". The kosmische musik article however is another POV opinion piece that needs to be re-worked or provided with more reliable reference sources.
715:"but the user Gene Poole seems to want to destroy its sense and quality as he did with the Ambient music article thanks to his "rave subculture" - influenced point of view. I do not want to start an edit war"
1667:
There are a couple of points that seem most important. First is the issue of Hill-Turner space music versus other kinds, and second is the controversy about the relationship between ambient and space music.
3001:
think this article should be about researching, or even mentioning beyond what is absolutely necessary, an outfit that space/ambient/electronic music has outgrown. You place FAR too much emphasis on them.
1535:
Either stop inserting your eccentric personal opinions into this article or else provide third party references to support your position. What part of this very simple concept do you not understand? --
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Oh, I'm very satisfied with my many edits at Knowledge, and I do not care about articles related to music genres, they are all poorly written and unorganized. You are taking this story too seriously,
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is not my "opinion" - it is a formal Knowledge policy. If you want to change the policy you will need to gain a broad community consensus. You should start by posting a comment on the talk page for
2798:
is not my "opinion" - it is a formal Knowledge policy. If you want to change the policy you will need to gain a broad community consensus. You should start by posting a comment on the talk page for
2726:. Posting convoluted, off-topic, semi-coherent borderline-abusive comments, because the poster doesnāt understand what the person theyāre attempting to communicate with is actually saying, however,
1405:
Well, thanks for the prompt answers, even if they didn't make me much wiserĀ :) I suppose the best way to go about it is for me to listen to some more of this stuff and form an impression of my own.
3892:"...I do not propose to engage in further discourse on this subject until the nature of various suspected sockpuppet accounts posting on these topics is clarified via a formal checkuser procedure."
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changes from a flute-like pure tone to a sax-like buzz tone. The gradient of timbre is space music genre's signature synth sound, which a space fan correspondent calls "zwhooshy" (a buzzy whoosh).
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HOS show music is also described as contemplative, and therefore by definition is never irritating. Yet among other examples, Ambient music broadly includes irritating industrial machine noises (
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I hope I've convinced you that there is more substance to HOS than you thought (I'm not holding my breathĀ :) , because those are the historic and current facts, though not necessarily Knowledge
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developed out of it, by way of other stuff. Many would probably disagree. Or agree, depending on the situation. As for "differences" in sound ...... best not to go there. Personally, I'd define
3294:(5) Yes, I could afford a subscription. Thank you for your concern, and the not-so-veiled insult. I don't listen to much radio, as I have a huge backlog of music just waiting to be listened to.
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Every challenged statement must now be referenced, or eventually it will get deleted. If you were to delete referenced statements or other referenced items, you could expect to be reported for
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section. What is your real objection? If you simply don't like some or most of them, that would be an unattributed personal opinion, and you would have to do attributed research to back it up.
3932:- I like the structure and recommend we use it. I like the idea of following the intro with a list of varying viewpoints, since this topic seems not to have consensus on one NPOV approach.
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I take it from Gardener of Geda's user page that he lives in the UK. If as it appears that English is a second language for you, the three of us provide a modest global perspective for SpM.
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Anyone care to shed some light onto why two of the audio streams have this written beside them? Both webpages seem to work fine, so if there's no real reason for this, it should be removed.
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I've just provided a reference to the above. Though I, myself, don't particularly value the opinion of someone who has a vested/financial interest in this music, it's something, at least.
2755:, and may not be written into Knowledge. This is not my āideological positionā. It is just the way things are, and you need to either accept it, or stop contributing to the project. --
1775:, have no sockpuppets. Why would any self-confident talk page editor want to do that, anyway? I want full credit for everything I write without the credit dilution caused by socks.Ā :)
854:
As the cover of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy says, "Don't Panic".Ā :) You aren't alone in patrolling the article, but we need just a little of your help here as you can spare it.
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opinion that spacemusic is NOT ambient which is eccentric. You have to date provided no references supporting this thesis. It is not necessary for me to disprove a negative. It
2670:. Yours were not. It is up to you to demonstrate how my simple reworking of a badly written, unreferenced personal opinion piece constitutes a āterritorial claim to this genreā.
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the current list for notability with the HoS playlist server. It is also the most popular section to which the most passing editors, correctly or incorrectly, have contributed.
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relationship. As for HOS, it's so central to the genre, that it may keep popping up on it own in provable facts. Let's see where the ride takes us. (Did you ever see the movie
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the slightest consensus consultation with me), and you further consensed strict application of those rules, I now have to lay them back on you. What goes around comes around.
2006:"). This begs the question (a) why is he wanting citations now, after all this time, and (b) why is he not providing them? Just a question. I'm just wandering, that's all.
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The upshot is, the article should NOT be restored to any version which contains material from the article mentioned above, unless references to the opinions can be found.
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and rhythmic elements that draw the listener's attention and move away from the idea of Ambient. There is an interesting discussion supporting this by John Dilaberto of
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Nah, Mil! Naaaaaaah! That's not it at all! I'm objecting to your attempt to subvert larger goals and principles by invoking petty or technical rules! That's what it is!
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and it's raised a bit of sand around Knowledge. Some editors have been offended, but I think there's some truth to Arthur's claim of Knowledge as more-than-a-fancult.
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So, let's see what we have here. I pointed out to you how you apparently broke the rules by deleting the second citation fact tag. You have now demonstrated bad faith (
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Not to worry, Gardener, I debate a lot, but I'm ultimately I'm a consensus editor.Ā :) Ambient is mentioned twice in Stephen Hill's website intro, so there is clearly
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that space music is a subgenre of amibient, and another that it's not, then list the reasons supporting each position, and so on through each of the controversies.
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As nearly as I can discern, your definition of "will not go round in circles with this one" means "will not debate this point", or "will not negotiate this issue".
3304:(7) The rest of your message convinces me that the article is going to be a problem, one not worth wasting too much time on. I feel that your comments/opinions on
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2. Nobody can include their eccentric personal opinions in this article - unless those opinions happen to be verifiable in multiple reliable third party sources.
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Yes, I do take myself seriously ā the Knowledge editing culture demands it, because it is the goal of the Knowledge cult to be taken seriously by the whole world.
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article should be the only repository for the "Hill-Turner" side of things. Otherwise, as I say, we'll constantly keep taking one step forward and two steps back.
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Pardon, what unintentional insult would that be? It's too easy to assume that well-intended remarks have some pejorative hidden meaning, which is one reason for
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No apologies necessary. I thought I'd mention it just in case someone had read what you'd originally written, then come back later and saw that it was different.
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This classic edition for the public is now history. For future editors' consideration of its notably different content, here is the link to see how it read:
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The classic edition? I know this is the spacemusic article, but it's not necessary to be a card carrying space cadet to post contributions here, you know. --
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mentioned in the sentence specifically refer to a range of compositions that suggest a perceptually gradual transition between genres similar to space music.
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1. Nobody owns this article. Those who continue to suggest or imply otherwise may be dealt with via formal Knowledge disciplinary procedures if necessary.
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Suggestions/comments welcome - use the page's 'discussion' tab, or this thread. Please don't change the actual article; I'll deal with any changes myself.
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pruning. As to the "provable" relationships to other types, this is the sort of area that will result in everything going round in circles. To me, it's a
2259:ā¢ When you insert comment into the middle of someone else's post, please add one of these plain text tags as shown above "" to maintain the post identity.
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Thanks for your revert, Dr. Who. Removing the central Hill-Turner metacomposition concept struck me as at least lacking serious knowledge of this subject.
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Statement two is a universally accepted self-evident reality. The only person in the entire world saying otherwise is you. It is therefore incumbent on
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Well, if he requested the citations, it's not his task to provide them. There is no time limit on citation requests; many are long delayed at Knowledge.
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Brian Eno is a crossover artist. Eno first appeared in HOS #004 (public radio network, 1983). Eno is credited with coining the phrase "Ambient music", (
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Nonetheless, the single most important and proveable article fact is that space music was named first, in 1973, and ambient was named second, in 1978.
3291:(4) "Commercial radio station" as regards the fact that they make money from what they do. NOT that they broadcast commercials. Isn't that clear???!!!
292:. That absence is a good example of meta composition, in which a composer only selectively defines the genre within limits set by the segue producer.
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deletion. If you can not reasonably explain that deletion with no corresponding citation, please fix your own editing error and replace the fact tag.
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Lisa Gerrard? I think they're taking the p1ss on that one. Great Music, but it's about as "spacey" as Britney Spears. And apart from his 1994 album,
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Zeit, by Tangerine Dream makes use of unpleasent sounds. So do several other releases. Therefore, the unpleasent discordant sounds are as important.
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signature every few paragraphs. As in the real world, you don't want to give the appearance that you duplicated a signature rather than a username.
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Any answers to those questions would very probably be opinionated, so it's best to make up your own mind, I think. I assume you've read through the
1499:, and not for business, two editors come here and accuse me of everything, and say that all the other editors are POV. This is simply incredible.--
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I agree. I removed Mike Oldfield from the list as the most gobsmackingly strange inclusion, but there are plenty more to cull, and some to add. --
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I still think that saying Oldfield's music is "spacey" is stretching the concept to a ridiculous length, particularly if you say it's because it "
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Gene - I have only been editing for a couple weeks. During this short time, you've already accused me of being a sock puppet twice! What about
1973:"Space music was (is) too new to be taken seriously"; so new, in fact, that it's difficult to get scholarly references to what it is, or isn't.
3503:. At its foundation, "space music" is simply "any music broadcast by HOS". The article needs to reflect this reality. It most certainly should
2170:" category. Thank you. That's one for the collection. And please quit with the WikiLawyering. I'm not impressed. Damned amused though! Cheers!
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appallingly written, full of bizarre unverified statements and was totally misleading - until I took the long-overdue step of re-writing it. --
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As an absolute generalization, that's inherently doubtful. But even if a lot of people believe that, statement two still requires a source.
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articles are of necessity going to contain some opinions, as well as some original research, which is essentially a well-supported opinion.
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It is the unreferenced personal web page of a student. It does not conform with Knowledge requirements for reliable third party sources. --
3860:"Any edit lacking attribution may be removed, and the final burden of evidence lies with the editor wishing to add or retain the material."
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4: How I ālookā is beside the point. I expunged a rambling, unreferenced POV essay from an article in which it has no place. End of story.
1979:"It can be broadly characterised as comprising complex sonic textures whilst lacking conventional melodic, rhythmic, or vocal components,
4008:"3 aĀ : weak in intellectĀ : FOOLISH bĀ : exhibiting or indicative of a lack of common sense or sound judgment <a very silly mistake: -->
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some types of spacemusic that are not ambient? Are you saying that ALL spacemusic must be ambient? Can you support that with citations?
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suspect it is rather less than some people would like us to believe. I have already sought input from an administrator on this issue. --
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why I am saying those things to you, Mil. I'm just trying to see if you'll say something funny, like giving me a potted biography, say.
346:"Space music is subtly distinguished on multidimensional gradients, shading toward adjacent genres of new age, ambient, and electronic."
2854:, you replaced it with another unreferenced piece. Ok, now it's my turn to challenge and delete, if necessary, your failure to observe
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3. There is no "special exemption" from the application of these Knowledge standards just because this happens to be a music article.
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Not to forget that "New Age" is a religion, and that an unknown number of wealthy New Age believers take seriously, Constance Demby's
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Good luck on your same-thread sock hunt. I doubt that you'll find any, but you are entitled to spend your time that way if you wish.
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There are at least three problems with proving that POV. Some of the space-music-is-not-ambient facts are provable, and some are not:
3413:(2) You will not explain your reasoning for the HOS exclusion, or further debate it by analogy to the founders of other music genres?
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fancults put too much emphasis on John Lennon. Maybe so from your POV, but to them, John was (and Yoko is) special beyond mere music.
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section, as it's very silly. VERY silly indeed. I kept all the stuff about the "real space music" because .... well .... I like it.
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2. SpM = Ambient is looking a lot like your eccentric personal opinion. The jury is still out, but I've seen no evidence of it yet.
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Therefore, having a notables list is musicologically critical, the current list is attributable, and I don't consense its removal.
3377:
go round in circles with this one. Your analogy with Chuck Berry, by the way, is the funniest thing I've read in a while. Cheers!
2850:ā¢ We are agreed that I wrote an unreferenced piece. We are also agreed that you had the right to delete it. Despite your claim of
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WellĀø I dislike the use of any kind of slangĀø both in English and in my current Ā“1stĀ“ languageĀø feel free to report my mistakes.
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3416:(3) You will not state your view of who does have the right or power to say what is, or isn't, the definition of a music genre?
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6: I, in common with every other person in the world other than yourself, know nothing about āHill-Turner space musicā because
2002:, despite the fact that the sentences in question have been part of the article since September 6, 2005 (to which, he claims, "
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A sub-genre of ambient music with space or astronomy as a theme, originally intended as soundtrack music for planetarium shows.
3617:
Your opinion is noted. Moving forward, we will now focus on the provable, or at least uncontested, statements for the article.
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Still; whatever turns you on, I suppose. The article is hilarious with, or without Oldfield's presence. It don't mean a thang.
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I trust the above is sufficiently clear to everyone, and that these points are kept in mind by all contributors in future. --
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Now that you've got that off your chest, I'd appreciate it if you'd do me the courtesy of actually responding to my query. --
3203:
You've never been into the HOS show, and it sounds like you never will be (since you probably can't afford it on the net).
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genre. However, using the HOS playlist server, I did verify much of the list of notable artists with which you took issue.
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Erm ...... yes. That would be a fantastic idea. It's always best to form an impression of your own, by listening to stuff.
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source-invalid without first returning here to post and debate your objections, followed by an RfC if we do not consense.
3623:"space music" or "spacemusic" was named or coined first, in 1973, and "ambient music" was named or coined second, in 1978.
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I should overreact becosue an imaginary person has posted a message right 30 seconds after I wrote at Talk:Ambient music?
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4. Yep, you stood on your rights to delete, but you would have looked a lot better to have consensus-discussed it first.
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Apologies if that may seem an inappropriate behaviour, I wished to change the text two days ago, but I was really tired.
358:"A transition between one color and another, or one shade of a color and another, or one density of a color and another.
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Indeed. The mysterious Dr. Who seems to think so as well - I've just noticed that he's redirected "kosmische musik" to
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article I see no evidence of any "rave subculture" - influenced point of view, or any "destruction" of any kind. There
4086:. It appears to be the personal opinion of a music fan dating from 13 years ago. It is not an authoritative source. --
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We'll put aside the issue of whole-statement #01 relevance until and if this #01a part of the statement gets sourced.
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Unfortunately, while the intention in producing it is good, there is a great deal in the new article that constitutes
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I can't understand why that user is let to come here and claim to be the only real worldwide expert of ambient music.
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Never mind. I was just trying to make conversation ..... lighten up the mood a little. I failed. Oh well, then!!! ...
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By analogy then, Carl Perkins, Chuck Berry, etc., do not have any say as to what is, or isn't, rock and roll music?
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Please add Google searches on { HOS music OR space } { "Hearts of Space" } and { "Music From The Hearts Of Space" }
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I do not know Gene Poole and his face, I do not live in UK, therefore I do not know that Brent you are mentioning.
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album or artist in that case, no matter how inappropriate or daft. Or no matter who plays it on what radio station.
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I'm going to put Lisa back in. She's been featured many times (with and without Dead Can Dance) on Hearts of Space
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discussing this same issue, so I thought I'd mention that here so we can all be "on the same page" so to speak...
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that 'Space music was too new to be taken seriously'. It was his hint, or more exactly his implied position, that
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thereby facilitating for the listener a sense of "spatial consciousness", or sensations of floating or flying".
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4. Nobody has to seek "permission" from anyone to make changes to Knowledge content that does not comply with
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on the artist list to playlists on the Hearts of Space website. I can see no reason to include these links. --
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works). He hinted that Space music was too new to be taken seriously since few of its notables were deceased.
1702:". Hey - you could even write it while listening to more episodes of HOS than anyone else at Knowledge! Yes!
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I think "]" should be wikified, but how much more of this explanation really needs to be put in the article?
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531:, powerfully evokes this sense for many listeners. So I'm going to put him back in and cite those albums. --
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3410:(1) Your exclusion of Hearts of Space founder's space music definitions from the article is non-negotiable?
725:. I would say your reaction was an overreaction, but maybe I'm overreacting, even though I'm not. Meh! ...
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Can anyone provide specific album names of the two artists that have the characteristics of space music? -
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3674:" "Ambient" is the term universally applied to certain types of music - including "space music" - today."
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I'll keep it up for a week from this posting, then act according to whatever everybody thinks. Possibly.
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I'm at a loss to understand why you think this, since Hill and Turner discovered and named the concept.
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2: On the contrary, given that the list of spacemusic and ambient artists is mutually inclusive, it is
2485:""Cult"?! You mean as in some sort of viral religious meme? Oh dear. You do have "issues", don't you?!"
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This is news to me. I certainly haven't taken any polarized absolute positions, so they must be yours.
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I merged the two versions, and I reworked the heading so that now it has some sense in musicology. --
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5: Advising others to show basic respect in their dealings with other editors is not a violation of
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1250-1850, in times when many people were forced to sleep in close proximity in large heated halls.
3297:(6) I am at a total loss when it comes to this strange habit you have of talking about "album" and
1623:) which lasted up to February 1 2007, when it began to be stripped of its unencyclopaedic content.
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If the founders of genres don't have any say as to what is, or isn't, their genre, then who does?
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situation going. As for article consensus - I don't hold high hopes myself. But, you never know.
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5. Looks like an attempt to intimidate 2nd language editors, which if I recall is a violation of
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saw fit to slightly change the text of his last-but-one message whilst posting his last one. See
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stated that the 'Milomedes' version was "original research", and slapped a warning on it). Yes.
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The overreaction? Oh. That would be you storming into this talk-page and writing something like
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132:, a show apparently not claimed to be Ambient. ā Space music is therefore a fusion music, where
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is a dead duck, beyond resuscitation. Perhaps of historical interest, but that's all. The
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I'm going to try a rewrite in the very near future which will hopefully satisfy everyone.
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it could be substantiated with references. All that's left to do now is to go through the
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themselves too seriously to be somewhat ...... "lacking", if you catch my drift. Oh yes.
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Well I suggest that both Lisa and Mike are removed from the list of "notable artists". --
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What's this all about now? Hey hey? Gradients? Let's be honest with ourselves. Now. Yes.
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I edited the intro tonight, to bring it into harmony with the mention of Space music on
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recognized authority standard (space music), and the "about themselves" standard (HOS)."
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1615:, on May 15 2006, rewrote the article to the infamous version (POV; original research;
1472:
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is a dead duck, beyond resuscitation. Perhaps of historical interest, but that's all."
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be included in the report for any newer editor still unfamiliar with your username.
3267:
a relationship. It says so in the footnote that I provided a few days ago. Source =
2900:
2751:. These appear to be terms invented and used only by yourself. They thus constitute
767:
No; I don't think you should. That's what I'm saying. (An "imaginary person"?!) ...
3582:
3565:
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3243:
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2099:
After reading all that pompous "guff", I get the impression that this article will
1690:
Erm ..... yes. Maybe it would be a good idea for you to write an article entitled "
4079:
3188:
You don't know enough about them to say that. It's also a bit like saying certain
2947:
How else to repeatedly describe this 800-show compilation standard in the article?
2168:
Alert! Alert! Abandon ship! Every man who takes himself too seriously for himself!
1746:
And while you're at it, maybe you could review Knowledge's policy concerning the
4145:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
4117:
4108:
4104:; anyway it includes some personal opinions and some obvious neutral opinions.--
4090:
4083:
4067:
3978:
3942:
3904:
3811:
3807:
Thank you for your kind attention and your considered response to my comments.
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Enciclopedic tone. What part of this very simple concept you do not understand?
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in 1970; if you listen to it you can agree that it may be regarded as the first
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87:
46:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
3542:
if one turns up the volume and foreground listens ā especially with headphones.
2487:
Oh, you hadn't heard? It's not me ā Charles Arthur wrote that in The Guardian,
1698:", and you could even pepper it with constant reminders to yourself that it's "
2619:
3. You are wrong about #3. I'll find the Wikiguide reference to it eventually.
1496:
1311:
as being all-electronic; can feature guitarwork and rhythm; sweeping; lots of
159:
3833:"It is therefore incumbent on you to provide sources in support of your POV."
2477:
that regard, you may recall Andy Warhol's most famously prescient quote (see
109:
If space music isn't ambient music, why is Brian Eno listed as a key artist?
3250:
U.S. assume that they must get radio play to sell music albums of any type.
1367:
367:
183:
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118:
2896:
I've just put up a suggestion for a new look to the article on my sandbox.
813:
Well, lucky old "real world" I say! Yes! Cheer up, and happy editing! ....
97:
Please post any other Audio Stream links for SpaceMusic specific stations.
122:
2139:) by refusing to address the issue, much less negotiating or apologizing.
2081:"that it's difficult to get scholarly references to what it is, or isn't"
3710:
3473:
not inadvertently misunderstand the negotiating partner's true position.
2400:"Cult"?! You mean as in some sort of viral religious meme? Oh dear. You
1591:
It has been edited by a dozen of editors in 3 years, and none complained
3500:
2747:. We likewise know nothing about āalbum spacemusicā because that, too,
1319:
is ...... erm ...... I'll get back to you on that one. Happy listening!
720:
2166:
I'd say that section of your post, on the pomposity scale, is in the "
3865:
Gardener of Geda attempted to source that article opening statement (
3407:
In seeking article content consensus, do I correctly understand that:
2975:
that they are very closely related; it's obvious. The whole point of
2811:
It is just your opinionĀø your personal original research, sadly (see
2782:
sadly; make a poll (oopsĀø should I say Ā“issue a pollĀ“ or whatever).
372:
3660:" "space music" or "spacemusic" was named or coined first, in 1973"
3370:"Ā : Yes. I'm sure that it was a well-intended insult. I believe you.
2474:"I'm sorry to hear your family made you feel inferior to everyone. "
2086:
If you are in pain, perhaps you should depart editing this article.
1045:
Methinks you doth protest too much. Take a deep breath, and relax.
559:??!! Nooooooooo!!!! I like it fine, but "space"??!! With covers of
403:
I was tied to my seat. If I wasn't, I'd have jumped out the window.
1228:
all very point-of-view; not encyclopaedic at all. Perhaps - I say
1073:
I am not going to break any rule, but please try to be objective.
3875:
2815:); make a poll (oopsĀø should I say Ā“issue a pollĀ“ or whatever).
3936:
come back to the same issue we've not found consensus on yet...
3346:"They DO NOT have any say as to what is, or isn't, space music."
2520:ā¢ Is "con't" not used in UK as an abbreviation for "continued"?
3827:"Statement two is a universally accepted self-evident reality."
3288:
is the main reason why this article is going to go to the dogs.
1179:
None of my business. Everyone has to start somewhere. Be calm.
136:
is understood as a blending process, not a genre or style (see
4124:
4082:
does not qualify as a reliable reference source as defined in
2136:
607:
I think you're over-reacting. Having read Gene's input to the
306:(38 HOS playlist hits) group-soloed with their own show (#339
25:
3910:
Space Music is related to, but not the same as, Ambient Music
3556:
Actually, I was firmly specific in stating just the opposite:
3540:
Does ambient do this too? In evocative compositions it does,
3301:
space music. A complete loss. You are going round in circles.
3281:
article - NOT to their, I'm sure, huge presence in the media.
4102:
the personal opinion of a music fan dating from 13 years ago
3999:"2 aĀ : RUSTIC, PLAIN b obsoleteĀ : lowly in stationĀ : HUMBLE"
3680:
You claim it's a fact, but this statement #02 is unsourced.
1091:
hard. You should try it yourself. Think calm thoughts. Yes.
3336:"Thank you for your concern, and the not-so-veiled insult."
1830:
invoked them, hardball rules it is. Best personal regards.
3308:
border on the "bizarre" side of "disturbing". No offence.
1315:(my favourite); and is very ...... um ...... spacey. Yes.
3470:"I doubt that any consensus is possible on this article."
2595:- the foundations on which this encyclopedia is based.
1232:- some of it could be carefully reinserted in the future
981:
Ambient, I am wondering if this editor has ever read it.
905:. It's no big deal. Just thought I'd mention it. Cheers!
3836:
3507:
be used as a vehicle for the promotion of unreferenced
1796:
Please explain the purpose of the links you added from
1469:
991:
Please calm down. The article is NOT being vandalized.
902:
4097:
2877:
and crazies. You should take note that all of these -
1240:
material, some of which is, quite frankly, daft. Yes.
4035:
None of those definitions even remotely describe the
3620:
The first set of facts for inclusion in the article:
2662:
1. My edits to this article are fully compliant with
232:
I had added Popul Vuh to the Notable artists list on
3852:
2053:
I think you mean 'citation requests' or 'fact tags'.
1470:
2006-10-23 classic edition of Knowledge:Space music.
1004:
s input. Relax. Listen to some ambient/space music.
543:
evokes or creates a sense of mental "space" or place
3837:
2006-10-23 classic edition of Knowledge:Space music
3511:
in the manner you appear to be suggesting above. --
1868:"Please explain the purpose of the links you added"
1596:
The first, very short entry, in July 1 2005, says "
3273:(2) The "dead duck" statement was in reference to
1285:sound btw. Kosmische Musik and other space music?
4018:"4Ā : being stunned or dazed <scared silly: -->
2687:, however, necessary for you to prove a positive.
3342:. In any case, insults aren't my personal style.
977:The article clearly explains why Space music is
2428:ā¢ Btw, as with many editors, you misunderstand
3526:"HOS is a pioneering ambient music radio show"
2768:
2495:"Log on and join in, but beware the web cults"
432:, I wouldn't say Oldfield was "spacey" either.
3694:to provide sources in support of your POV. --
2636:What is clear from your current proximity to
515:, so I'm not sure about putting him back in.
8:
1998:These citations were added recently by user
417:Lisa Gerrad and Mike Oldfield - space music?
371:slide from high to low frequency, while its
74:This page was archived on July 28, 2007 to
3883:Note that this reference does not say that
3585:feelings of "everything you know is wrong".
3581:unhappy with the facts ā it's one of those
1299:article? For what it's worth, I'd say that
3186:"You place FAR too much emphasis on them."
1729:Thanks, I'll consider your suggestion.Ā :)
1603:From September 6 2005, it was changed to "
1576:Persistent revision of discredited article
1463:Link to classic 2006 Knowledge:Space music
1000:rule if you continue to mindlessly revert
3885:"Space music is a type of ambient music."
3845:"Space music is a type of ambient music."
3368:"what unintentional insult would that be?
2963:I should mention that I didn't touch the
2862:. The burden of reference is now on you.
2573:
3984:I looked up the word "silly" at M-W.com:
3867:"Space music is a type of ambient music"
3215:There's a concept that Jello Biafra (of
1976:Note the article's second paragraph....
2967:section, though I feel that it needs a
2062:Please quote and attribute accurately.
4143:Do not edit the contents of this page.
3853:WP:RS#How to cite and request a source
3032:Thanks, I like itĀø itĀ“s very cool.--
2206:available for public radio listening.
2070:say and also the musicologist did not
2051:"These citations were added recently "
1826:. But I don't think you would do that.
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
2266:Sure thing, Mil! You can rely on me!
996:are well on your way to breaking the
699:What is the overeaction you mention?
186:), history page for this date --: -->
7:
3464:"Polarisation seems to be absolute."
2633:position that it's all just ambient.
508:as typical of Gerrard space music.
261:Do both streams play music for you?
3666:is a statement sourcing to-do item.
147:Re-edited 04:27, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
1959:"Space music <= Ambient debate"
196:Furthermore, I invite you to read
24:
3948:Tentative new article, version 2.
3869:) with the following reference:
1162:Where are his edits about music?
284:The HOS server lists 21 hits for
4128:
4096:It is in a University's domain,
29:
4100:so, it is something more than
2574:Let's get a few things straight
1626:(As early as June 5 2006, User
1611:This version lasted until user
719:"Space music is a sub-genre of
717:, just because he dared to say
166:to join them; that happened in
3876:http://hos.com/aboutmusic.html
2696:3: There are no exceptions to
2508:Milo]] 05:15, 27 February 2007
2057:"why is he not providing them"
1700:one of my lifetime best pieces
378:The multidimensional gradients
1:
3928:Regarding Gardner of Gedas's
2654:07:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2607:05:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2569:02:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2559:02:38, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2549:02:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2536:19:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2464:12:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2437:05:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2247:02:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2211:01:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
2123:18:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
2091:18:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
2037:14:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
2018:. Will the pain never cease?
1941:05:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
1903:05:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
1875:02:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
1850:01:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
1835:08:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
1809:05:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
1780:07:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
1755:02:41, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
1734:18:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
1721:17:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
1685:07:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
1655:12:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
1571:23:24, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
1561:23:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
1550:22:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
1540:11:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
1530:21:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
1515:11:54, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
1504:20:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
331:"multidimensional gradients"
266:00:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
256:01:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
3990:"1 archaicĀ : HELPLESS, WEAK"
2983:is that the relationship to
2824:You seem a little confused.
2794:You seem a little confused.
2544:BTWĀø IĀ“m from South Europe--
1488:22:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
1476:08:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
1449:19:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
1410:05:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
1389:00:30, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
1354:23:53, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
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1259:01:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
1218:00:51, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
1198:19:46, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
1167:19:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
1023:18:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
986:13:20, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
965:00:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
935:00:10, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
925:00:05, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
884:23:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
859:05:22, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
832:13:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
801:02:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
646:01:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
602:01:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
583:18:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
536:17:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
321:07:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
162:; eventually MacKay invited
2404:have "issues", don't you?!
490:12:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
469:12:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
451:09:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
438:22:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
409:22:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
389:21:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
339:11:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
4184:
4118:11:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
4109:11:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
4068:18:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
3578:"Time for a reality-check"
2950:Thanks, good work so far.
2767:SirĀø you are the only guy
2704:. I suggest you read them.
1589:) has said, and I quote, "
430:The Songs of Distant Earth
288:, but, it does not hit on
4091:03:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
4019:<knocked me silly: -->
3979:00:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
3943:08:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
3905:11:27, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
3812:09:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
3732:08:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
3718:06:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
3699:05:41, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
3685:03:43, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
3647:02:28, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
3633:18:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
3609:22:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
3595:13:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
3516:07:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
3495:Time for a reality-check
3482:03:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
3455:22:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3436:on the article. Chin up!
3423:21:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3396:18:43, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3359:14:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3327:02:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3255:02:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3155:01:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3123:01:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3103:01:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3063:01:01, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
3037:20:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
3020:20:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
2955:20:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
2930:19:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
2886:00:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
2871:06:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
2837:03:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
2820:03:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
2807:03:01, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
2787:02:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
2778:It is just your opinionĀø
2760:01:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
241:04:27, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
227:10:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
191:04:27, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
145:04:27, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
88:11:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
4009:cĀ : TRIFLING, FRIVOLOUS"
3766:please stop accusing me!
3750:not biting the newcomers
2336:Yes. Like that. Cheers!
1556:your native language. --
3263:(1) Yes; there clearly
2771:that claims that I am
1692:Hill-Turner space music
1660:Hill-Turner space music
1087:I'm trying. I'm trying
879:Many thanks to you all.
4032:
4023:
4012:
4002:
3993:
3914:There is a section on
3881:
3863:
3848:
3573:
2858:at least, and perhaps
2745:there is no such thing
1694:". Perhaps subtitled "
567:tunes? Noooooooo!!!!!!
397:So there you have it,
356:is easy to visualize:
247:Internal Server Error?
4141:of past discussions.
4029:"synonym see SIMPLE "
4026:
4015:
4005:
3996:
3987:
3930:Tentative New Article
3871:
3857:
3842:
3559:
2892:Tentative new article
1792:Notable artists links
1208:Rewrting this article
545:". You could justify
42:of past discussions.
3709:in his archives at:
2009:It seems to me that
184:Brian Eno:Roxy Music
130:Thistle and Shamrock
4098:http://www.fiu.edu/
3746:assuming good faith
3711:TimeWarped in Space
3488:What Space Music is
3373:No comment. I will
2506:"[[User:Milomedes|
1696:The classic version
126:Metal Machine Music
119:Brian Eno:Solo work
3916:Talk:Ambient music
3229:Sacred Space Music
2479:15 minutes of fame
1748:use of sockpuppets
1566:Enciclopedic tone.
504:. I would suggest
344:From the article:
4171:
4170:
4153:
4152:
4147:current talk page
4078:Please note that
3642:that's a fact. --
3570:
3509:original research
2936:article will say.
2879:without exception
1994:
1986:
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272:Unpleasant sounds
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53:
48:current talk page
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3169:Fantastic Voyage
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435:Gardener of Geda
406:Gardener of Geda
352:A spatial color
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18:Talk:Space music
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4037:Notable artists
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3955:Notable artists
3953:get rid of the
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3912:
3835:You deleted my
3490:
3445:
3442:
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3434:this philosophy
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2004:none complained
1991:citation needed
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1983:citation needed
1981:
1961:
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1771:No problem ā I
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1628:Brian G. Wilson
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734:
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728:
680:
677:
674:
636:
633:
630:
594:
577:
506:The Mirror Pool
423:User:Stardancer
419:
329:
286:Tangerine Dream
274:
249:
199:Kosmische Musik
107:
95:
85:
59:
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
4181:
4179:
4169:
4168:
4163:
4151:
4150:
4133:
4123:
4122:
4121:
4120:
4075:
4072:
4071:
4070:
4052:
4051:
4047:
4046:
4041:
4040:
4033:
4024:
4013:
4003:
3994:
3985:
3976:Message Me....
3949:
3946:
3911:
3908:
3899:
3896:
3889:
3830:
3824:
3821:
3819:
3818:
3817:
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3814:
3800:
3799:
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3781:
3772:
3771:
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3769:
3768:
3767:
3758:
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3756:
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3688:
3687:
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3677:
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3651:
3650:
3649:
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3635:
3626:
3625:
3624:
3618:
3614:
3613:
3612:
3611:
3598:
3597:
3589:
3586:
3572:
3571:
3558:
3557:
3550:
3546:
3538:
3535:
3532:
3529:
3521:
3520:
3519:
3518:
3489:
3486:
3485:
3484:
3474:
3467:
3460:
3459:
3458:
3457:
3452:Message Me....
3426:
3425:
3417:
3414:
3411:
3408:
3405:
3401:
3400:
3399:
3398:
3393:Message Me....
3371:
3362:
3361:
3352:
3349:
3343:
3332:
3331:
3330:
3329:
3324:Message Me....
3302:
3295:
3292:
3289:
3282:
3271:
3258:
3257:
3247:
3239:
3232:
3225:
3222:Summer of Love
3213:
3209:
3205:Summer of Love
3201:
3193:
3183:
3172:
3160:
3159:
3158:
3157:
3152:Message Me....
3126:
3125:
3114:
3113:
3112:
3111:
3110:
3109:
3108:
3107:
3106:
3105:
3100:Message Me....
3072:
3071:
3070:
3069:
3068:
3067:
3066:
3065:
3044:
3043:
3042:
3041:
3040:
3039:
3025:
3024:
3023:
3022:
3017:Message Me....
2995:
2994:
2993:
2992:
2958:
2957:
2948:
2944:
2941:
2937:
2927:Message Me....
2893:
2890:
2889:
2888:
2865:
2863:
2849:
2848:
2846:
2845:
2844:
2843:
2842:
2841:
2840:
2839:
2832:, not here. --
2802:, not here. --
2765:
2764:
2763:
2762:
2749:does not exist
2738:
2737:
2736:
2735:
2717:
2716:
2715:
2714:
2708:
2707:
2706:
2705:
2691:
2690:
2689:
2688:
2674:
2673:
2672:
2671:
2657:
2656:
2634:
2630:
2623:
2620:
2617:
2614:
2575:
2572:
2562:
2561:
2542:
2540:
2529:Little Ice Age
2521:
2519:
2516:
2514:
2511:
2505:
2503:
2482:
2471:
2469:
2468:
2467:
2466:
2461:Message Me....
2440:
2439:
2425:
2424:
2423:
2422:
2420:Message Me....
2395:
2394:
2390:
2389:
2388:
2387:
2385:Message Me....
2363:
2362:
2357:
2356:
2355:
2354:
2352:Message Me....
2331:
2330:
2325:
2324:
2323:
2322:
2320:Message Me....
2295:
2294:
2291:
2287:
2286:
2285:
2284:
2282:Message Me....
2261:
2260:
2256:
2255:
2254:
2253:
2252:
2251:
2250:
2249:
2244:Message Me....
2218:
2217:
2216:
2215:
2214:
2213:
2197:
2195:
2194:
2193:
2192:
2191:
2190:
2189:
2188:
2186:Message Me....
2157:
2156:
2155:
2154:
2153:
2152:
2148:
2144:
2140:
2128:
2127:
2126:
2125:
2120:Message Me....
2094:
2093:
2084:
2066:certainly did
2060:
2054:
2048:
2044:
2034:Message Me....
1960:
1957:
1956:
1955:
1954:
1953:
1952:
1951:
1950:
1949:
1948:
1947:
1946:
1945:
1944:
1943:
1916:
1915:
1914:
1913:
1912:
1911:
1910:
1909:
1908:
1907:
1906:
1905:
1884:
1883:
1882:
1881:
1880:
1879:
1878:
1877:
1857:
1856:
1855:
1854:
1853:
1852:
1838:
1837:
1827:
1820:
1816:
1802:Michael Hedges
1798:Richard Burmer
1793:
1790:
1789:
1788:
1787:
1786:
1785:
1784:
1783:
1782:
1762:
1761:
1760:
1759:
1758:
1757:
1739:
1738:
1737:
1736:
1724:
1723:
1718:Message Me....
1678:
1675:
1672:
1669:
1666:
1661:
1658:
1652:Message Me....
1593:". Let's see.
1577:
1574:
1564:
1563:
1543:
1542:
1522:
1519:
1518:
1517:
1493:
1491:
1490:
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1464:
1461:
1460:
1459:
1458:
1457:
1456:
1455:
1454:
1453:
1452:
1451:
1446:Message Me....
1419:
1418:
1417:
1416:
1415:
1414:
1413:
1412:
1407:O0pyromancer0o
1396:
1395:
1394:
1393:
1392:
1391:
1386:Message Me....
1359:
1358:
1357:
1356:
1343:
1342:
1337:Message Me....
1320:
1287:O0pyromancer0o
1281:
1278:
1277:
1276:
1275:
1274:
1262:
1261:
1256:Message Me....
1209:
1206:
1205:
1204:
1203:
1202:
1201:
1200:
1195:Message Me....
1172:
1171:
1170:
1169:
1157:
1156:
1155:
1154:
1153:
1152:
1150:Message Me....
1126:
1125:
1124:
1123:
1114:
1113:
1112:
1111:
1110:
1109:
1107:Message Me....
1080:
1079:
1078:
1077:
1068:
1067:
1066:
1065:
1064:
1063:
1061:Message Me....
1038:
1037:
1036:
1035:
1026:
1025:
1020:Message Me....
974:
971:
970:
969:
968:
967:
962:Message Me....
945:
944:
938:
937:
922:Message Me....
906:
895:
894:
893:
892:
891:
890:
889:
888:
887:
886:
868:
867:
866:
865:
864:
863:
862:
861:
852:
841:
839:
838:
837:
836:
835:
834:
829:Message Me....
806:
805:
804:
803:
790:
789:
788:
787:
786:
785:
783:Message Me....
760:
759:
758:
757:
748:
747:
746:
745:
744:
743:
741:Message Me....
706:
705:
704:
703:
694:
693:
692:
691:
690:
689:
687:Message Me....
664:
663:
662:
661:
651:
649:
648:
643:Message Me....
626:
625:
593:
590:
588:
586:
585:
573:
572:
569:
568:
551:
550:
499:
498:
497:
496:
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493:
492:
476:
475:
474:
473:
472:
471:
464:
456:
455:
454:
453:
441:
440:
433:
418:
415:
414:
413:
412:
411:
404:
402:
399:Ascensionedits
392:
391:
382:
376:
364:
354:image gradient
349:
348:
336:Ascensionedits
328:
325:
324:
323:
313:
312:
308:Dead Can Dance
304:Dead Can Dance
299:
298:
294:
293:
273:
270:
269:
268:
248:
245:
244:
243:
194:
193:
149:
148:
106:
103:
94:
91:
83:
70:
69:
64:
52:
51:
34:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
4180:
4167:
4164:
4161:
4157:
4156:
4148:
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4140:
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4134:
4127:
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4119:
4116:
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4111:
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4073:
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4038:
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4014:
4011:
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4004:
4001:
4000:
3995:
3992:
3991:
3986:
3983:
3982:
3981:
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3977:
3973:
3972:
3960:
3956:
3947:
3945:
3944:
3941:
3937:
3933:
3931:
3926:
3924:
3923:Ambient music
3919:
3917:
3909:
3907:
3906:
3903:
3893:
3886:
3880:
3879:
3877:
3870:
3868:
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3856:
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3841:
3838:
3834:
3828:
3822:
3813:
3810:
3806:
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3801:
3792:
3791:
3790:
3789:
3788:
3787:
3778:
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3774:
3773:
3764:
3763:
3762:
3761:
3760:
3759:
3751:
3747:
3743:
3742:
3741:
3740:
3739:
3738:
3733:
3730:
3727:procedure. --
3725:
3724:
3723:
3722:
3719:
3716:
3712:
3708:
3703:
3702:
3701:
3700:
3697:
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3679:
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3671:
3670:
3668:
3665:
3661:
3657:
3656:
3654:
3653:
3648:
3645:
3640:
3639:
3638:
3637:
3634:
3631:
3628:Any comment?
3627:
3622:
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3619:
3616:
3615:
3610:
3607:
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3600:
3599:
3596:
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3333:
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3259:
3256:
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3248:
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3240:
3237:
3233:
3230:
3226:
3223:
3218:
3217:Dead Kennedys
3214:
3210:
3208:HOS obsolete.
3206:
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2430:Wikilawyering
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2017:
2012:
2007:
2005:
2001:
1996:
1992:
1984:
1977:
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533:Bluejay Young
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521:Hergest Ridge
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93:Audio Streams
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3707:Echoes Radio
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3583:Future Shock
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3277:presence in
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2015:
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1867:
1866:Do you mean
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463:Do it, then!
420:
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105:Not Ambient?
96:
73:
60:
43:
37:
4135:This is an
3940:Parzival418
3809:Parzival418
3715:Parzival418
2981:space music
2979:rewrite of
2228:somewhere.
2011:Space music
622:David Brent
208:Affenstunde
158:co-founded
156:Andy MacKay
152:Brian Ferry
138:Jazz fusion
80:Parzival418
36:This is an
4115:Gene_poole
4106:Doktor Who
4088:Gene_poole
4074:References
3959:Here. Meh!
3729:Gene_poole
3696:Gene_poole
3644:Gene_poole
3606:Gene_poole
3513:Gene_poole
3182:necessary.
3120:Gene_poole
3060:Gene_poole
3034:Doktor Who
2883:Gene_poole
2834:Gene_poole
2817:Doktor Who
2804:Gene_poole
2784:Doktor Who
2757:Gene_poole
2604:Gene_poole
2566:Doktor Who
2546:Doktor Who
2489:2005-12-15
2000:Doktor Who
1900:Gene_poole
1847:Gene_poole
1819:necessary.
1806:Gene_poole
1752:Gene_poole
1558:Gene_poole
1537:Gene_poole
1512:Gene_poole
1497:musicology
1485:Gene_poole
1351:Gene_poole
1269:Gene_poole
1215:Gene_poole
993:Gene Poole
624:'s double?
487:Stardancer
448:Stardancer
327:Really Now
234:2006-05-15
160:Roxy Music
76:/Archive 1
4166:ArchiveĀ 2
4160:ArchiveĀ 1
3964:Gardener
3440:Gardener
3381:Gardener
3312:Gardener
3140:Gardener
3134:checkuser
3088:Gardener
3005:Gardener
2915:Gardener
2449:Gardener
2408:Gardener
2373:Gardener
2340:Gardener
2308:Gardener
2270:Gardener
2232:Gardener
2174:Gardener
2108:Gardener
2022:Gardener
1969:Milomedes
1706:Gardener
1640:Gardener
1613:Milomedes
1434:Gardener
1374:Gardener
1368:Krautrock
1325:Gardener
1309:Kosmische
1301:Kosmische
1244:Gardener
1183:Gardener
1138:Gardener
1134:quickly.
1095:Gardener
1049:Gardener
1008:Gardener
973:Vandalism
950:Gardener
910:Gardener
817:Gardener
771:Gardener
729:Gardener
675:Gardener
631:Gardener
615:parts of
368:dimension
206:released
204:Popol Vuh
174:, 1970s.
164:Brian Eno
67:ArchiveĀ 2
61:ArchiveĀ 1
1966:As user
1370:! Woof!
525:Ommadawn
4138:archive
3780:puppet.
3501:ambient
3190:Beatles
2698:WP:NPOV
2668:WP:NPOV
2593:WP:NPOV
2510:(UTC)"
2016:new age
1621:Ambient
1606:Arctic.
1587:Ambient
1568:Dr. Who
1547:Dr. Who
1527:Dr. Who
1501:Dr. Who
1230:perhaps
1164:Dr. Who
1121:Dr. Who
1075:Dr. Who
1033:Dr. Who
983:Dr. Who
932:Dr. Who
899:Dr. Who
897:NoteĀ :
881:Dr. Who
798:Dr. Who
755:Dr. Who
721:ambient
701:Dr. Who
659:Dr. Who
609:Ambient
599:Dr. Who
565:Shadows
485:Done.--
224:Brian W
222:album.
216:ambient
39:archive
3340:WP:AGF
3306:H.o.S.
3299:H.o.S.
3275:H.o.S.
3269:H.o.S.
3238:facts.
3177:H.o.S.
2989:H.o.S.
2985:H.o.S.
2969:severe
2732:WP:CIV
2724:WP:CIV
2646:WP:COI
2644:, and
2642:WP:CIV
2638:WP:OWN
2627:WP:CIV
2613:still.
2300:But I
2101:always
1934:WP:COI
1824:WP:OWN
1521:Merged
1089:really
796:world.
373:timbre
220:spacey
212:cosmic
170:, not
134:fusion
3658:#01a
3566:WP:RS
3545:Age.)
3244:WP:RS
3236:WP:RS
3198:Echos
3055:WP:OR
2973:given
2940:when.
2860:WP:OR
2830:WP:OR
2826:WP:OR
2813:WP:OR
2800:WP:OR
2796:WP:OR
2780:WP:OR
2753:WP:OR
2072:speak
1971:says,
1617:Space
1583:Space
1317:Space
1313:drone
1305:Space
1002:Gene'
363:time.
253:DezSP
168:early
84:Hello
16:<
4084:WP:V
4080:this
4065:Milo
3970:Geda
3902:Milo
3748:and
3682:Milo
3672:#02
3655:So,
3630:Milo
3592:Milo
3497:Milo
3479:Milo
3446:Geda
3420:Milo
3387:Geda
3356:Milo
3318:Geda
3286:Gods
3279:this
3252:Milo
3146:Geda
3094:Geda
3011:Geda
2952:Milo
2921:Geda
2902:here
2899:See
2868:Milo
2856:WP:V
2852:WP:V
2769:here
2702:WP:V
2681:your
2666:and
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2651:Milo
2591:and
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2556:Milo
2533:Milo
2455:Geda
2434:Milo
2414:Geda
2379:Geda
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2302:know
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2238:Geda
2208:Milo
2180:Geda
2147:are.
2143:not.
2114:Geda
2088:Milo
2028:Geda
1938:Milo
1872:Milo
1832:Milo
1800:and
1777:Milo
1773:Milo
1750:. --
1731:Milo
1712:Geda
1682:Milo
1646:Geda
1619:not
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1440:Geda
1380:Geda
1331:Geda
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1144:Geda
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1014:Geda
956:Geda
916:Geda
903:here
856:Milo
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777:Geda
735:Geda
681:Geda
637:Geda
617:this
597:Thx.
592:Help
563:and
561:Abba
553:And
527:and
386:Milo
318:Milo
290:Zeit
263:Milo
238:Milo
218:and
188:Milo
172:late
154:and
142:Milo
4059:and
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2515:""
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100:]
50:.
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