Talk:Sparkling wine

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writing or improving...) I base that opinion on the fact that we have and accept individual articles for several individual French AOCs, and one common article for the 7 Crémant AOCs therefore doesn't seem too far fetched to me. Also, several of these wines are big sellers and are rather notable/known under their own umbrella names. However, such articles should be treated strictly as splinter articles of this "mother article" to avoid unnecessary repetition, and should therefore be relatively short and succinct. I see no need to repeat a lot of material on general production methods and general sparkling wine history. Instead, the splinter articles should focus on things that are specific for that type of sparkling wine, such as allowed or common grape varieties, production region(s), requirements, labelling, production volume and so on. Two good pieces of advice for anyone wanting to write such articles: start by adding material here, and avoid comparisons to Champagne to avoid POV and OR issues.

1516:, the editors, are not the original sources, just the writers. If they wish to track down a user they'll have to go through page histories. Again, this is not a different case than many others where the user added some information years ago and it is buried deep on another page that was merged into the one the reader is now reading. Hyperlinks in the edit summary are sufficient, as the policy page you first linked to indicates. I would add that I did modify the text quite a bit, so it is not purely your own work. If there were an issue with wording the reader would have every reason to ask me about it if they wanted, but I think you're missing the point about attribution (not the same thing as sourcing). Wholesale copying is fine, as long as it is properly attributed. Deletion is not the way to solve such an attribution problem, per that policy page again. 1467:

sufficiently notable and the sources sufficient to sustain an article of its own, even if the one I threw together is rather slim for now. (c) This is standard Wikipedian procedure to prevent entirely different coverage of the same topic appearing at several articles and almost certainly leading to contradiction and even worse redundancy (since each article may feel the need to go into great depth about cava, since there is no article about cava to go into great depth in!) (d) The hatnote is simpler this way.

1049: 250: 80: 53: 180: 22: 1040: 871:(typically: sweeter, fresher, fruitier - depending on the grapes used), and there is definitely no consensus that it is qualitatively inferior. Indeed, some Prosecco Spumante is produced by méthode Champanoise, but this wine is not at all regarded as being of better quality than the typical Charmat method Proseccos. I've re-worded the paragraph to remove this negativity. 90: 860:

prosecco as a grape variety, which is also used to produce still wines ("Prosecco Tranquillo") which is probably what the Romans drank. So I agree with you that it is unlikely that the Romans had devised a way to build the steel autoclaves used for the Charmat method, and have edited the paragraph accordingly.

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Portugal VFQPRD states that the bubbles are injected via traditional method, charmat or transfer. You can not inject CO² via these methods. A secondary fermentation is promoted via adding yeast after initial fermentation of sugar to alcohol. This yeast converts sugar to CO² and additional alcohol,

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and limiting redundancy and useless duplication. There is some material that is unique to knowing the greater context of sparkling wine (and such in the sparkling wine Cava section) and some historical material unique to Spanish/Catalan wine. As long as there is not conflicts or contradiction (which

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of material you did, especially since you lifted en mass selected sections of the article rather then entire article. The whole point of attribution is to allow readers to follow the material back to the original source of the material through page history. So if someone has a question about material

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I was of the understanding that the Charmat method used technology that would be only found in post-Industrial Revolution society. Does anyone have information on Romans using a secondary fermentation method in metal vats to create sparkling (or even frissante) wines? If the Romans did so, would it

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I only came here to add the possible Charmat process merger (everyone here should take a look at Talk:Champagne production for that discussion, it's an important one which also involves the proper name for that other article) but in passing I've just done a quick edit to get the UK stuff going in the

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with the same production method. The only difference really is the grape varieties. The sparkling wine article deals with the difference between Champagne and its many imitators which provides a key link to Cava, Sekt, Crement, etc and important context for the reader. That makes it the most logical

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excited about it :-), it's definitely a minority interest even here, and Nyetimber is priced similarly to the mainstream Champagne brands - they're doing a major expansion at the moment, but I guess they don't need to worry about exports for now. But it's kinda fun, especially if there's any French

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As an aside, well done on the work you've done here - the more I think about it, the more vital I think these general articles are for the Wine Project, in feeding new readers into the hierarchy of wine articles. As such, I think See Also:'s are particularly valuable for this kind of article - I've

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We can still do all this if you like. I don't know why you are acting like this oversight on my part is some great violation of all that is good and holy. The guideline is easily adhered-to, and one can easily go fix any mistaken cut/paste. (The text was not just a copy/paste, however, as I heavily

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I believe the article is needed because (a) having sections about cava at three separate articles without one single article about cava is confusing, especially when the sections are not identical and some contain different bits of information (or contradictory bits) than others. (b) The subject is

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I think a better description of this term is warranted in the article than the somewhat cryptic line that currently closes the discussion of American sparkling wines. The legal status and abandonment of the term by producers of higher priced wines should be discussed. I would do it myself but don't

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I thought the shocked, "England? WINE?!" in the first paragraph was very amusing, myself. I had Nyetimber at a sparkling wine tasting a couple of years ago, and would like to know more about it. Does anybody know enough to write an article? By the way, we also had a Perrier-Joulet, and when tasted

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1 - The Korbel brothers weren't from Czechoslovakia because Czechoslovakia existed only from 1918 to 1993. In their nineteenth century era their country, Bohemia, was not yet a part of Czechoslovakia, which didn't yet exist, but a part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. Nevertheless they were czech

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Well first and foremost, referencing is the big on. I take full responsibility for dropping the ball with this one. It was going to be one of my pet projects on cleaning up and expanding but I soon grew bored. :p Many of the major sparkling styles like Sekt, Asti etc need much more detail to merit

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subtly attempts to suggest that these wines are of poorer quality. The sad reality is that the prices of both Champagne and Prosecco di Cartizze are through the roof, and have nothing to do with production costs but are simply a result of high demand. Changed "sold" to "produced". And besides, the

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According to the current version of the article, "Champagne is responsible for about 8% of worldwide sparkling wine production". This being a rather small percentage, it seems odd to have the current sectioning, which separates French wines from wines not from France. Maybe they should all be put

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My guess is that the misunderstanding arises from the fact that producers of Prosecco Spumante (one of Italy's top Charmat method wines) like to boast that Prosecco has been around since ancient Roman times, as mentioned in the writings of Pliny the Elder - at best this may however refer only to

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are humans and can make mistakes so if someone has a question about how a source was used, they need to go back to the original author of the Knowledge material who put that information in. Not having proper attribution for copying materials within Knowledge is dishonest and a disservice to the

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I think that the major styles/designations for sparkling wine (other than Champagne), such as Cava, Crémant, Sekt, and Spumante, could merit their own articles. (I've been thinking myself about writing Crémant and Sekt - but then again, there's a long list of wine-related things I've considered

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needs to be attributed by at minimum a hyperlink or URL but can otherwise be copied and modified at will. A hyperlink to the original article(s) is usually considered sufficient when copying at Knowledge to create new articles. When I reverted you at the latter article, I made sure to add such

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2 - The Korbel brothers didn't immigrate in California in 1892, this is only the year in which they were supposed (according to the current version of the article) to begin production of sparkling wine in California. According to the page I formerly mentioned, they immigrated in 1852 and began

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Something I disliked about the paragraph was the negativity surrounding the Charmat method. True, it is rather less poetic and more cost-efficient to have grapes ferment in large pressurised steel containers rather than in the bottle, but the wine obtained as a result is structurally different

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article. But I fret that he is interpreting this as some slight if Spumante doesn't have its own article. Just like all the other significant regional sparklers are merged here, so to does Spumante have a "voice"--just like Cava, Sekt, Cremant, etc. It for the benefits of our readers, not our

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A light wine, of several kinds, originally made in the province of Champagne, in France. Note: Champagne properly includes several kinds not only of sparkling but of still wines; but in America the term is usually restricted to wines which effervesce.

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material that can be added, beyond recycling material properly kept in context of sparkling wine and Spanish/Catalan wine, that kinda proves the point that it is not needed. Otherwise, why not make duplicate articles on everything that is already written on Knowledge? Like

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to add originally. This is the only level of attribution required for Knowledge text, so you had no cause to revert me again. "Free content doesn't mean plagarism is okay", but Knowledge's licensing means that hyperlinks are sufficient attribution. And I've now provided

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Thanks for starting that section. I'll see what I can do about sourcing. I have to say that English sparkling wine is intriguing and I wish there were more distributors importing it into the US. With the changing climate and global warming, I keep hearing positive

1667:, etc. Or why not the DOs or AOs? Is cava more well-known or more important as a sparkling wine than as a Spanish wine? I don't know and wouldn't expect anybody else to. If we can justify articles for other appellations/denominations, why not for cava? Why can't 807:

about :-)) PS I've upped the assessment to a B, I guess that GA must be a matter of time. But I think it would make sense to unify all the subtypes into country sections, so that the UK and US sections would be joined by France, Italy, FSU etc for consistency

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I think the opening para should be a little less surprised about English wine - we had quite major vineyards during Roman times, so that para could be cleaned up. OTOH, some English fizz is now world class and deserves its own section in this article eg :

1088:. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging 1197:

are already merged into the sparkling wine article. Roby seems to be editing with a marked POV (as evidence by his comments--Spumante already has a voice in the sparkling wine article), irrespective of the neutrality and weight issues.

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for similar reasons. We could certainly create an article with reliable sources but we would just be creating the same redundancy or duplicate information that we have here with Cava. Again, what benefit would that offer the reader?

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I've started the merge of the regional style into this article. TONS of work still need to be done to improve the format and prose of the article. I will be working on this article throughout the week with the hope of getting it to

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are here for the readers and our work should not add more burden to the readership by misleading them as to the source of the original material. Again, I encourage you to read the copying policy more closely, in particular the

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A dictionary reference has little bearing to validity. Champagne is from Champagne in NE France just as Microsoft products come from Microsoft. Other Sparkling wines are Sparkling Wines and non Misrosoft Software is Software.

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choice for the majority of info with DO and history specific info going Catalan wine article. The Spanish wine article should really only have the briefest summary and slight mention of the scare Cava made outside Catalonia.

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production of sparkling wine in 1882, not in 1892. But this date (1882) doesn't come from the official Korbel website, so I didn't modified the former version of the article (1892). Could anybody check this source, please ?

1409:), since this copied material just regurgitates material already available here and in other articles, an important question is whether this article is even needed. If anything, I think the fact that there really isn't any 1608:

I'll concede that (a) is your strongest point and I am usually a strong proponent in limiting the number of links a reader has to click on to get information about a topic. But I'm also a big proponent of keeping material

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I was looking details particularly about the abandonment of the term by premium producers but I couldn't find any reliable sources that adequately described the situation. Any help in this area would be great.

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wines produced or sold in the European Union." (without bold in article)? Otherwise the implication is that the term can't be applied to Champagne itself. David Woodward ☮ ♡♢☞☽ 00:46, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

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editors, that all these styles are merged together since most of the material overlaps and this can proud the reader a solid context of the information versus search for it piecemeal over the project.

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Unless VFQPRD allows CO² to be artificially injected the statement is incorrect. This statement needs clarification and a reference. I'd guess as it's Frisante nearly all VFQPRD wines are Charmat.

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term "Metodo Italiano" is hardly used in Italy; the process is referred to as Metodo Charmat-Martinotti, crediting both the original inventor Martinotti and the later patent holder Charmat.

996:). Only later, in 1918, Bohemia and other czech lands, along with Slovakia, will be a part of Czechoslovakia, but the Korbel's period is in no way related to the Czechoslovakian period. 844:

Though it should be noted that although the traditional method is more commonly used throughout the world, the Charmat method has been used in Italy since the ancient Roman Empire.

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in Canadian French, I don't really know where it fits but maybe it could be put back where it was. In either case it needs some clarification and expansion on what it refers to.

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Here some recent review article with lots of references and some nice picture. STill as ASAP/preview, not sure if it will be freely accessible afterwards.. here is the link:

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based upon copied material previously written on Knowledge. Regardless of the utterly inappropriate and unattributed whole sale use of another editor's work (per

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First, attribution is not personal at Knowledge. You don't know who I am. If you want to know who added that information, you'll have to search edit histories

1092:. Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the 1876: 1866: 484: 949:

Could the author please avoid the use of the word "sparkler"? It's more of a nickname for sparkling wine rather than a universally accepted alternative. --

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ref, who would they go to you? To you? Do you have that reference? Did you write those lines and put that material together? So where would the reader go?

1825:"VQPRD is a sparkling wine that can be made by injecting the wine with gas in the traditional champagne, charmat, transfer method anywhere in Portugal." 1886: 1093: 116: 1798: 1896: 531:

Just about all of them! Any pictures of wine regions, grape varieties or wine would be useful. In particular we need wine region maps that can be

1797:'s toes. It's a given that a photo of Champagne belongs in this lead of this article, but we've got a bunch of photos in Commons that would do. 835:

I assume this is in just one jurisdiction? In which case it might make sense to say which one. I don't think I've ever seen this. -- richiau

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weight issues since all the other sparkling wine styles, include ones with significantly more worldwide prominence than Spumante, such as

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not make sense to change the phrase in the above excerpt from "Charmat method," to "Charmat-style method" or something similar?

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The Champenois had a bit of a Paris 76 moment with a blind tasting at which Nyetimber won, I'll see if I can dig up a reference

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Seems that this merge was previously discussed. Makes sense to merge Spumante here then, if that was the previous decision. -

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commonly designates any kind of sparking wine as originally, other methods of its production were unknown to the Quebeckers.

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Champagne can be and is used to refer to any sparkling wine. So, I am reverting. Here's two dictionaries that support me:

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If there is any injected gas the wine must be labeled as "Aerated Sparkling wine made with the addition of carbon dioxide".

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Gérard Liger-Belair: Recent advances in the science of champagne bubbles, Chem. Soc. Rev., 2008, DOI: 10.1039/b717798b (

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champagne n 1: a white sparkling wine either produced in Champagne or resembling that produced there

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I agree that England merits it own section. Feel free to add it. I was planning to myself once I have the free time.

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I'm sorry but you,dear Agne27,aren't so neutrality!!Spumante must have more evidence that Cava,Sekt,and Champagne!!

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right direction - no citations or anything I'm afraid, some of the ones above would be a start. Thinking more about

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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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Shouldn't, when referring to pressure the scientific term "bar" be used instead of the anachronistic atmosphere?

1697:. That same really can't be said of Cava whose history and production is essentially being a Spanish version of 1566:

you removed. Then you could have used the {{copied}} template and/or left an attribution note on the talk page.

1101: 1014: 335: 1843: 738: 734: 21: 1623: 1554:. A mass of several hyperlinks directing the reader to god know which article history is not helpful. At the 1386: 1361: 1131: 1644: 564: 339: 308: 1419: 1839: 924: 510: 39: 923:"... the grape variety Pinot Noir is also permitted for use in the production of white cavas." Source: 277: 882:

Metodo Italiano sparkling wines can be sold at a slightly lower prices than méthode champenoise wines.

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Please note that the issue is a divergence from the status quo and we now have significant POV and

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Well Sherry's production method and history is far different from other fortified wines such as

927: 1647:. Good thing, too. The problem with cava (and sekt, crémant, etc.) is that it is not clear why 1614:

you mentioned but didn't elaborate on), it seems to serve the reader best to read the material

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http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/F-Korbel-amp;-Bros-Inc-Company-History.html

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http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/F-Korbel-amp;-Bros-Inc-Company-History.html

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Hi, I fixed some mistakes concerning the Korbel brothers and the american sparkling wine :

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is a just a sparkling wine and just a Spanish wine. We don't have a separate article for

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people from Bohemia (just consult the external link I added to source that information :

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I want add Spumante voice!! If you don't want.it's censured!!Knowledge not is free!!!

1081: 368: 364: 321: 1765:, I think it should be in under the Canada headline. If it explains the meaning of 1656: 1652: 1450: 1446: 1296: 1279: 1259: 1237: 1229: 1170: 652: 518: 420: 416: 400: 384: 1703: 1690: 1664: 1660: 1628: 1567: 1540:

are the people that looked at the source and put the material into the article.

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the redirect going here. All in all, this article really needs a total rewrite.

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I agree with merging all forms of sparkling wines, Champagne semi-sparkling --

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/28/nwine28.xml

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/21/nwine21.xml

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under the same section, with countries in decreasing order of production.

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should be the main article for those wines as opposed to, for instance,

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I think that add Spumante voice isn't so distructive or uncostrutive....

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should be merged or not merged into Sparkling wine. Please remember the

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http://www.wein-plus.com/magazine/index.html?show=fullnews&nr=3911

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you could have removed the material in piecemeal with a direction to

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Yes. I would sincerely love to have Roby's help on improving, with

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the CO² is trapped in the wine never injected in these methods.

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blind the Nyetimber was generally preferred. Just as an aside. --

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http://www.francescoscacchi.it/Conferenza_Santelpidio_a_Mare.htm

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Please look at the copying policy closer. Edit summary like

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and if you want me to look up what it says, I will do so.

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just like with any other piece of information at Knowledge

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and sound referencing of course, the coverage of Spumante

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Korbel brothers and the origins of american sparkling wine

745:'We have a patch of soil the Champenois would kill for,' 741:"I would prefer Nyetimber to all but the best champagnes" 1482: 610: 606: 598: 237: 232: 227: 222: 1737:

I removed the following sentence form the part about

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Knowledge:Copying_within_Wikipedia#Proper_attribution

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Speaking of which, the sentence at the top that says

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and I want add other voice about Francesco Scacchi!

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This article talk page was automatically added with

107:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 1761:If they produce a sparkling wine in Quebec, called 161: 1606:Now in regard to whether this article should exist 1902:Knowledge level-5 vital articles in Everyday life 583: 691:what the f... ist "Price Chamfiction II."??? -- 191:, a project which is currently considered to be 1153:and discuss your opinions on the merge here. - 8: 19: 1833: 1145:There seems to be a revert war on whether 661: 485:Unreferenced biographies of living persons 206: 158: 47: 1892:Knowledge vital articles in Everyday life 1675:? Wouldn't that be similar to this case? 1519:As a matter of fact, I do have MacNeil's 1453:to the new article (formerly a redirect) 1401:Another editor has created an article at 1793:I feel like this article is stepping on 1351:Sectioning: France vs. rest of the world 470:Cleanup lists of wine-related articles: 1907:B-Class vital articles in Everyday life 1872:High-importance Food and drink articles 1037: 49: 1741:, since I can't make sense out of it. 1319:know if I could keep it short enough. 582:. Add to the Wikiquote page for wine: 1821:Likely incorrect definition of VFQPRD 1720:methode champenoise in European Union 900:Some content is from the merged stub 7: 551:Nominations for top level importance 187:This article is within the scope of 125:Knowledge:WikiProject Food and drink 101:This article is within the scope of 1877:WikiProject Food and drink articles 1867:Start-Class Food and drink articles 1618:rather than isolated. At its core, 743:http://decanter.com/news/46424.html 258:Here are some tasks you can do for 128:Template:WikiProject Food and drink 38:It is of interest to the following 1439:Knowledge:Copying within Knowledge 1407:Knowledge:Copying within Knowledge 1121:http://dx.doi.org/10.1039/b717798b 964:Thoughts on getting this up to a B 14: 733:Best non-Champagne fizz at IWC : 1887:Knowledge level-5 vital articles 1643:And we don't have an article on 1047: 1038: 282:Great Wine Capitals of the World 248: 88: 78: 51: 20: 1581:modified and restructured it.) 145:This article has been rated as 1897:B-Class level-5 vital articles 561:Template:Infobox grape variety 1: 1391:14:31, 11 February 2010 (UTC) 1366:15:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC) 979:01:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC) 936:16:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC) 914:04:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 777:done one for the UK section. 119:and see a list of open tasks. 1712:18:43, 30 January 2011 (UTC) 1685:03:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC) 1637:21:30, 29 January 2011 (UTC) 1591:03:53, 30 January 2011 (UTC) 1576:21:21, 29 January 2011 (UTC) 1533:21:08, 29 January 2011 (UTC) 1504:20:58, 29 January 2011 (UTC) 1485:are not appropriate for the 1477:20:24, 29 January 2011 (UTC) 1432:20:08, 29 January 2011 (UTC) 854:16:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC) 593: 1739:Other French sparkling wine 1441:, the material copied from 1345:23:06, 4 January 2009 (UTC) 1329:22:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC) 1305:18:40, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 1274:18:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 1251:17:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 1224:17:55, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 1208:17:52, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 1163:17:47, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 1136:20:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC) 1923: 1733:Mousseux in Quebec Comment 1458:hyperlinks which I simply 1075:WikiProject Food and drink 1025:WikiProject Food and drink 1019:06:47, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 945:22:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC) 890:21:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 876:21:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 865:21:00, 20 April 2008 (UTC) 798:19:24, 13 April 2007 (UTC) 782:10:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC) 680:22:53, 24 March 2007 (UTC) 151:project's importance scale 104:WikiProject Food and drink 1852:15:51, 3 April 2023 (UTC) 1816:08:48, 12 July 2017 (UTC) 1801:, for example. Thoughts? 1080:banner as it falls under 1003:3 - I added the source ( 768:03:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC) 753:00:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC) 720:02:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC) 655:22:15, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC) 205: 186: 157: 144: 73: 46: 1783:12:53, 13 May 2016 (UTC) 1106:06:14, 4 July 2008 (UTC) 1086:one of its subcategories 959:19:56, 12 May 2015 (UTC) 822:18:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC) 696:15:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC) 336:wine serving temperature 1624:American sparkling wine 1397:Copied material on Cava 812:02:09, 2 May 2007 (UTC) 646:From WordNet (r) 1.7 : 565:Template:Infobox winery 340:Western Australian wine 309:Western Australian wine 131:Food and drink articles 1882:B-Class vital articles 1645:Spanish sparkling wine 576:grape article template 183: 28:This article is rated 1490:cited to the MacNeil 1420:Wine made in Burgundy 1418:and an exact copy at 1371:Outdated: atmospheres 1272:comment was added at 1054:level-5 vital article 547:Operation stub-killer 511:Robert M. 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