Talk:Starhawk - Knowledge

1375:?? The Neopagan movement started in the early 1900s, at the latest. Its "counter-culture" revival started in the late 1950s. A 1979 book, no matter how influential, can hardly be considered the "inspiration" of that, unless you give up on the arrow of time and the notion of causality altogether. I am certainly willing to recognize that this author was influential within the "feminist Wicca" subculture and that her book may have inspiered the "Goddess movement", but to equate this with "Neopaganism", or even call her a "theorist of Paganism" is clearly misguided. I do believe that this author contributed to the public perception of "modern pagans" as feminists throwing about "fakelore" and bashing Christianity for the "burning times", at least in the United States, but this is clearly a popular 1354:

Gerald Gardner and amongst Feminists thanks largely to Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin (all three drawing on Gage as their source). Since Starhawk's influence is where these to groups meet, this was ground already covered - if anything it was the very idea of the nine-million that gave her a fertile bed to work from. It was still reasonable scholarship for someone for whom relevant history wasn't their field working from available sources when Starhawk was first writing so she can't be blamed for keeping the idea in circulation after it had been debunked. In all she's not particularly significant in this regard. Where she is significant is in being a leading figure in combining the two groups for which the nine-million held particular emotional significance

2418:. Even if it is the case that the game is receiving more hits, this on its own is not a sufficient reason to move. It would be a bad case of recentism and I take it this is why the same arguments for the same move were rejected a few months back. Next year when the immediate and temporary Google spike about the game has died away and the author remains as significant as ever, this argument would imply that whenever her Ghits outstrip the game again we should revert the name change. That's clearly a nonsense. We need to make an editorial decision here based on judgements about the likely durability of the various entities. My judgement is that this year's upcoming game sequel is likely to be a flash in the pan. 863: 842: 1536:- To be clear, the game was announced 1-2 days ago, so the above info actually leans the other way. If 15% percent of google results are for a game that was announced two days ago, that won't even be released until 2012, I think that is a clear indication that the term should be a disambiguator. 100% of the google news results (285 at present) are for the upcoming game. The game is only going to get more notable, and the fact that even one entry on the first page of a Google search is for the (two day old) game says that. ▫ 952: 931: 241: 220: 487: 466: 430: 336: 192: 309: 561: 346: 130: 106: 418: 75: 2473:

game was announced. I understand your concern regarding having to immediately undo edits, but I think the game release will have a greater impact on popular culture than you give it credit for. Warhawk, the predecessor to this game, which was released in 2007 to little fanfare, was actually getting double the hits on wikipedia than starhawk at the beginning of 2010. --

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So, everything above is a confusing mess. The page was moved, then a request was made to move it back, so people started asking for it to be moved when they didn't want it to be, so it was moved again, back to where it was after the first move so that something here might make sense. This whole thing

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I have to disagree, and it's not the disambiguation that's confusing, it's the fact that you're voting "Against" when you really want to vote "Support". Right now everyone but Zzyzx11 has voted against the Move Request, making this a 5 to 1 consensus against the move request. Admins are busy -- they

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She doesn't call herself a Wiccan. She's not somebody that I would recognise as a fellow Wiccan. She does however have beliefs and practices that match what Knowledge labels "Wiccan". I don't like Knowledge's definition of the word, but if that's the way it's defined, then surely it should be used

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I would point out that until the game was announced, starhawk did not recieve enough searches on google to merit an actual reading; there are no results before the announcement occured. This would suggest that the author did not hold a very strong presence in the public conciousness even before the

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Turn to disambiguation page, and move this to ] due to the upcoming game, which is now the dominant returned result on a Google search and the game being a far wider and well known entity than the author worldwide, due to it being the sequel to a critically acclaimed and multimillion copies selling

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argument because Google Books will only find, well, books! The other four uses of "Starhawk" aren't books. Obviously the fact that this discussion is taking place on the article about the author biases the poll toward the former configuration. The argument, "Everyone in this discussion except you,"

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I've added an impact section that talks about the impact her works have had. mainly about her popularisation of the nine million witches figure, but also one line about how "The Spiral dance" was arguably the inspiration behind the neo-pagan movement. Feel free to add to this. It would require, I

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I wonder more about the "self-described" label. Most adherents to a set of beliefs probably describe themselves as believing that thing, don't they? For example, is Pope Benedict a "self-described" Catholic, or is he just a Catholic? Others describe Starhawk as a witch, so I would respectfully

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Hmm...well the reason I listed Paganism is due to her connection with Marija Gimbutas' work. To me that connection to the past moves her work out of purely Neopaganism. In the part of the country I'm in Paganism is the more predominate description vs. Neopaganism, so that is also part of it. -

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If you read "The Spiral Dance" you'll read about how she was influenced by people in the Neopagan movement. It can hardly therefore have been the inspiration for it. Nor can she be given credit/blame for popularising the 9,000,000 figure; it was already popular amongst witches thanks largely to

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You're kidding, right? For quite some time, people everywhere could pretty much agree what would make somebody a Catholic...Goes to confession, takes communion, defends the pope, etc. I'm afraid it isn't possible to say the same about Wiccans and Witches. They are pretty much subjective

1120:"Starhawk lives part-time in a solar-powered cabin in the remote Cazadero hills of western Sonoma County, near the 485-acre Black Mountain Preserve. It's more than a two-hour drive along some of the North Coast's most wicked roads, the kind that snake through the hills in endless spirals. 2209:

getting more notable every day, that is the nature of our society and the internet in general. There will probably never be any Google Scholar or book results for the video game, but it is already becoming as saturated on the internet as the author. A generic Google search for

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and have reverted the change as there was no consensus to make it. The discussion here needs to run its course before any change is made. There will be some mess to clean up which I will do my best to do. Please don't revert back - await consensus before anyone moves this page

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Practically nothing in this article is properly sourced. This needs to be rectified. Deletion of all non-sourced material would likely make this article a stub, so any editors familiar with the subject should work to get sources in. Please let me know if I'm wrong here.

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think, a review of the book, it's main themes and the popular impact that the book has had, specifically with reference to neo-paganism and wicca. the paragraph I've written (about her popularisation of the incorrect figure of nine million witches killed during the

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It's been my observation that phrases such as "self-identified" or "self-described" are considered demeaning within the overall larger Pagan religious movement, as it has a connotation there that the religion is less legitimate than other religions. --

2132:, or is not paying attention to any other comments, is not doing their job. Secondly, my comment on reverting back was more of a rebuttal on the original reason for the unilateral move, and that the primary topic should not be updated solely on 2436:

Checking the google trends, searches for starhawk went up by a factor of 10 since the game's announcement. It seems perfectly transparent to me that the majority of internet searches will be related to the game rather than the author.

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Note on edit of 9/2/06: Source for addition of Starhawk's mother's middle name Claire is the Minnesota Birth Index, File 1951-MN-035927. (Existing information on DOB, name, and father's name are also verified by this file.) -

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I did remove Paganism though, unless she has some connection to paganism other than neopaganism. Actually I don't really like the word "neopaganism" but it's kind of stuck here to mean specifically contemporary paganism in the

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She also lives in a townhouse (a collective called the Black Cats) on a busy street in San Francisco's Mission District with her husband, David Miller, and a half dozen housemates, including a schoolgirl who's learning about

2991: 2018:, and Google search results are heavily skewed based on only 1- or 2-day old hits. Nor should it be based on a claim that it "is only going to get more notable ", more or less merely opinionated speculation or assumption. 502:

aims to improve the quality of articles dealing with gender studies and to remove systematic gender bias from Knowledge. If you would like to participate in the project, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the

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Hat note doesn't work? Cool, you guys think it going to be huge. If and when that comes true, it should definitely be reassessed. Can an encyclopedic be biased against games (in favor of books)? I'm not sure that's

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Then you're not searching correctly. Starhawk the person gets well over a million hits on the web alone, and the Lego item gets only 88,000, and zero in GoogleBooks, where Starhawk the person gets 20,000 hits.

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is a little silly. No other article is being moved to the main slot, just a dab page. This is an argument over an author/activist being a primary topic. No offense is meant to her or her supporters. The game

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I have no objections. The main worry for me was that so many pages were left pointing to a dab page but this has now been fixed. I'm easy either way about whether the title of this page should be

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clear that the topic is notable. It is not more notable than the author, but it is clear that a significant number of people searching for the term Starhawk are looking for the upcoming game. ▫

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Starhawk is not Wiccan. She believes in Goddess Spirituality. Her first books she did identify herself as being Wiccan (which can cause alot of confusion), she does follow Goddess Spirituality.

634: 1808:, making your "Against move" vote a vote against this. Is that really what you want to vote? I don't think so, but the admin in charge will likely tally your vote as against the Move Request 737: 1706:

as the request makes clear, the move had no merit whatsoever and the circumstances are highly suspicious. I'd like to hear how the editor who moved it, and others, attempt to justify the

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could we discuss the category issue? I think that Starhawk's work shouldn't be restricted to just Wicca. Her contributions effect the larger category of Paganism in my opinion. -

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move? Please make your position clear as to what you believe this page on the author should be titled, so the admin in charge of this discussion can tally your vote. Thank you.

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move? Please make your position clear as to what you believe this page on the author should be titled, so the admin in charge of this discussion can tally your vote. Thank you.

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Of course it's not "properly sourced." "Wicca" is nothing more than a collection of nonsense produced by charlatans inventing "ancient wisdom" to line their modern pockets.

3036: 584: 54: 2042:? Please make your position clear as to what you believe this page on the author should be titled, so the admin in charge of this discussion can tally your vote. Thank you. 1977:

Zzyzx11 has voted against the Move Request; read the votes: they are all "Against" or "Oppose" except for Zzyzx11. Kim voted "Against" as well, although he didn't mean to.

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move you are against, or unless you change your vote to "Support". "Against" means the same thing as "Oppose", so right now your vote and JohnnyMrNinja's are the same.

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That's already been done through a redirect. It would be clearer for the admin who closes the discussion if your vote was "Support" the move request, which is to move

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Does this article mention when her name was changed to Starhawk? I assume this happened before she published her books but when? Even the year would be good.

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is the best way to deal with a term that means different things to different people. Last week, I was considering starting a disambig page, but

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I was just wondering if this article should refer to her a "theorist of Paganism." Has she published scientific theories related to paganism?

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Wrong, Zzyzx11 supports Kim's resolution. Correct, you don't have to take my advice about asking everyone to come back and do it your way.—

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For a few months that might be true. But it would be recentism to bow to that when the game will be a distant memory in 12 months time.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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You need to re-check your facts because most of what you said there is incorrect. Your unauthorized move was remedied by making

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re-direct to this page. Everyone in this discussion except you, who made the unauthorized move, agrees that the person is the

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by a wide margin, (unless we've switched to a daily news cycle)? Anyway, the media event is old news in 1-2 more days, and

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read everything and they'll be aware of how confusing disambiguation is. But all the comments asking for clarification are

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

616: 2136:. This is not a pure "support" or "oppose" vote because I remain neutral on the other reasons that may determine the 2260:, so perhaps you should review those criteria instead of on relying on a spike in the first page of Google results. 2394: 2340: 2294: 2290: 2214:

nets a first page balanced between the two. Google news results are only about the game. Page article statistics -

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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held by people who know nothing about the topic, and certainly not something to be perpetuated by Knowledge. --

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http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/10/29/NBGRE9FM091.DTL&hw=starhawk&sn=001&sc=1000

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She doesn't live in San Francisco anymore. She lives on a farm in capitalist Marin. So much for her "ideals".

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There are two video games, one released in 1977, and the Google results I quoted are for both, not just one.

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see 5 to 1 against and from respected editors, so they quickly close the discussion as against and move on.

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She apparantly has two residences, though the RUMOR is that she doesn't spend very much time at the SF one.

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suggest that a citation be provided to show why Starhawk's own description of her beliefs is notable. --

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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identify as Witches but not as Wiccans. If someone disagrees with this...let's talk about it! Thanks,

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1645:- as long as it is the first page people get to when they type "Starhawk" into WP's search box. 2933: 2813: 2705: 2628: 2538: 2499: 2320: 2298: 2261: 2187: 2145: 2091: 2083: 2061: 2043: 2023: 1978: 1897: 1823: 1809: 1801: 1752: 1719: 1710:

for a hijacking when it just-so-happens to coincide with the announcement of this video game?

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of the GoogleBooks results are to her. Extremely prolific and well-known author and activist.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20061021013132/http://www.researchpubs.com/books/mpex_star.php

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https://web.archive.org/web/20061021013132/http://www.researchpubs.com/books/mpex_star.php

2636: 1287: 1231: 785: 50: 2899:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 2779:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 2671:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 2498:. Let's not play this out again folks. That would be a huge waste of everybody's time. 2289:

saw the need for it before I got around to doing it. Nobody here is proposing that the

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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https://web.archive.org/web/20140505044500/http://starhawk.org/writings/writings.html

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well i dont like her so ill refrain from editing this article but YOUTUBE not utube

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if I had secured the #1 spot on Google for the duration... I guess a hat won't due.—

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make it a disambiguation page. I get a LEGO toyset as the primary usage in Google.

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Revert the unilateral move so the author is back to being the primary target.

1314: 1183: 1168: 802: 425: 369: 364: 341: 135: 1373:"The Spiral dance" was arguably the inspiration behind the neo-pagan movement 1178:

I hope I didn't step on anybody's toes by changing the link for "Witch" from

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have been made. The primary topic should not be changed every time there is

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To try and be clear: I'm against (and have reverted) the unilateral move by

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

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https://web.archive.org/20080511204010/http://www.cuups.org/content2/

2090:, which has to be done manually by the admin closing the discussion. 2222:. Notice the giant spike on the day the trailer was released? It is 165:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the 2641:

to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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is invalid due to that bias. This conversation should be moved to

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Unknown-importance biography (politics and government) articles

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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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you'd have to pry that dab page out of my cold dead fists,

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Since this new content was almost entirely about the book

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Sounds like a great solution to me. Will do that now. --

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I have just added archive links to one external link on

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a

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Comment: Is there some reason this was not listed on

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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if you want to conduct a fair, unbiased discussion. —

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C-Class biography (politics and government) articles

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of the "What Links Here" for the term or the dab --

874:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 252:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2909:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2789:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2681:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2140:primary topic ... and I'll just leave it at that. 1033:Could we put her in both Neopaganism and Wicca? — 738:Knowledge requested photographs of gender studies 2887:http://www.researchpubs.com/books/mpex_star.php 2877:http://www.researchpubs.com/books/mpex_star.php 3032:Low-importance San Francisco Bay Area articles 2895:This message was posted before February 2018. 2775:This message was posted before February 2018. 2767:http://www.starhawk.org/writings/writings.html 2667:This message was posted before February 2018. 1251:self-identifying classifications, even today. 1800:I know that. But the Move Request is to move 1718:the game's numbers didn't even come close to 8: 2997:Politics and government work group articles 3037:San Francisco Bay Area task force articles 2745:I have just modified one external link on 925: 836: 585:Unknown-importance Gender studies articles 568:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 546: 460: 303: 214: 100: 3087:Mid-importance Women in Religion articles 2855:I have just modified 2 external links on 1331:, I've moved it over to that article. -- 815:Gender studies articles needing attention 660:Gender studies articles needing infoboxes 2120:First of all, a discussion to determine 957:This article is within the scope of the 3027:C-Class San Francisco Bay Area articles 969:Knowledge:WikiProject Women in Religion 927: 838: 462: 305: 216: 102: 72: 3052:Mid-importance Gender studies articles 1200: 1192: 972:Template:WikiProject Women in Religion 202:the politics and government work group 3067:Mid-importance Women writers articles 7: 3012:High-importance Neopaganism articles 1773:Kim undid the damage... Click here: 1461:The result of the move request was: 868:This article is within the scope of 513:Knowledge:WikiProject Gender studies 357:This article is within the scope of 246:This article is within the scope of 151:This article is within the scope of 3057:WikiProject Gender studies articles 2977:Biography articles of living people 888:Knowledge:WikiProject Women writers 516:Template:WikiProject Gender studies 91:It is of interest to the following 3082:C-Class Women in Religion articles 3077:WikiProject Women writers articles 3022:Low-importance California articles 2397:now gets more hits per month than 1049:comment added 20:54, 18 July 2004. 1028:comment added 08:55, 16 July 2004. 891:Template:WikiProject Women writers 581:Unassessed Gender studies articles 25: 2859:. Please take a moment to review 2749:. Please take a moment to review 2621:. Please take a moment to review 724:Women's education in Saudi Arabia 444:San Francisco Bay Area task force 266:Knowledge:WikiProject Neopaganism 2010:: IMO, a unilateral move should 1625:to a disambiguation page. As to 950: 929: 861: 840: 559: 485: 464: 428: 383:Knowledge:WikiProject California 344: 334: 307: 269:Template:WikiProject Neopaganism 239: 218: 138: 128: 104: 73: 32:This article must adhere to the 3047:C-Class Gender studies articles 3042:WikiProject California articles 989:This article has been rated as 908:This article has been rated as 533:This article has been rated as 403:This article has been rated as 386:Template:WikiProject California 286:This article has been rated as 175:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography 3062:C-Class Women writers articles 3002:WikiProject Biography articles 2651:http://www.cuups.org/content2/ 178:Template:WikiProject Biography 1: 2843:00:46, 3 September 2017 (UTC) 1434:07:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 1267:17:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC) 1238:14:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC) 1205:19:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC) 960:Women in Religion WikiProject 882:and see a list of open tasks. 441:This article is supported by 436:San Francisco Bay Area portal 377:and see a list of open tasks. 260:and see a list of open tasks. 199:This article is supported by 35:biographies of living persons 3007:C-Class Neopaganism articles 2963:23:59, 6 December 2017 (UTC) 2733:01:22, 17 October 2015 (UTC) 2429:19:00, 3 February 2012 (UTC) 2411:18:34, 3 February 2012 (UTC) 2385:17:32, 3 February 2012 (UTC) 1296:03:21, 20 October 2012 (UTC) 163:contribute to the discussion 3017:C-Class California articles 2130:discounting invalid reasons 1716:despite all the media hype, 1714:'s the way that leans, but 1074:03:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC) 47:must be removed immediately 3103: 3072:WikiProject Women articles 2982:C-Class biography articles 2926:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2852:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2806:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2742:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2698:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2639:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 2614:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2466:16:42, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 2447:14:41, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 2395:Starhawk (2012 video game) 2301:, or Lego model reside at 2220:Starhawk (2012 video game) 1500:) 23:14, 22 May 2011 (UTC) 1414:03:42, 22 April 2009 (UTC) 1364:13:59, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 1349:14:17, 22 March 2007 (UTC) 1322:12:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC) 1221:13:50, 21 April 2008 (UTC) 995:project's importance scale 975:Women in Religion articles 914:project's importance scale 539:project's importance scale 495:WikiProject Gender studies 409:project's importance scale 292:project's importance scale 2605:21:48, 19 July 2014 (UTC) 2584:07:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC) 2508:06:08, 6 April 2012 (UTC) 2483:16:26, 6 April 2012 (UTC) 1518:-- are referring to her. 1420:Concerning Pagan Theorist 1389:12:17, 29 July 2013 (UTC) 1066:18:12, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) 1058:01:29, 2004 Jul 20 (UTC) 1037:21:32, 2004 Jul 18 (UTC) 988: 945: 907: 871:WikiProject Women writers 856: 706:Brannon Masculinity Scale 545: 532: 480: 424: 402: 329: 285: 234: 198: 123: 99: 2563:00:27, 2 June 2012 (UTC) 2360:Please do not modify it. 2346:07:48, 23 May 2011 (UTC) 2330:07:03, 23 May 2011 (UTC) 2270:02:34, 23 May 2011 (UTC) 2244:01:37, 23 May 2011 (UTC) 2196:04:51, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 2177:03:56, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 2150:06:13, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 2100:04:09, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 2066:04:00, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 2052:03:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 2028:17:16, 15 May 2011 (UTC) 2016:recentism or news spikes 1987:04:51, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1941:04:37, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1906:04:22, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1871:04:14, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1852:Don't worry, it's not a 1832:03:59, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1784:03:51, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1761:03:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1737:16:35, 15 May 2011 (UTC) 1682:03:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1656:08:47, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1597:16:00, 15 May 2011 (UTC) 1572:03:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC) 1554:13:48, 15 May 2011 (UTC) 1528:12:02, 15 May 2011 (UTC) 1474:11:15, 23 May 2011 (UTC) 1453:Please do not modify it. 1148:) 01:28, 30 October 2005 1111:) 01:23, 30 October 2005 720:Michael Kaufman (author) 492:This article is part of 2848:External links modified 2738:External links modified 2610:External links modified 2542:23:54, 1 May 2012 (UTC) 2525:15:02, 1 May 2012 (UTC) 519:Gender studies articles 249:WikiProject Neopaganism 117:Politics and Government 894:Women writers articles 421: 360:WikiProject California 320:San Francisco Bay Area 195: 81:This article is rated 18:Talk:Starhawk (author) 2124:like Requested Moves 1463:returned to base name 635:/Sexuality and gender 507:for more information. 420: 194: 154:WikiProject Biography 2907:regular verification 2787:regular verification 2679:regular verification 2664:to let others know. 2625:. If necessary, add 2370:Another Move Request 2299:comic book character 1856:. 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