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and use the UI with mouse cursor). The UI controls were not designed for proper touch UI and multitouch support - these are just PC-style controls which are usable with mouse, keyboard or pen. There's no system support for gestures, at all - the only thing the developers can do is to roll their own. Support for touch text input was also added as a quick hack - at first it was fullscreen, then they added proper non-fullscreen keyboard, which requires the application to know that it wants to support non-full screen keyboard ... Existing applications are not aware of multitouch. Symbian^3 is just more layers added on top of the legacy code. Debugging tools DON't exist or can be barely qualified as debugging helpers. There's no support for developers to get application stack trace - when panic occurs, you're screwed. When "debugger" is lucky enough to catch the KERN-EXEC 3 before system kills the application, I haven't seen any stack trace even one time (just some assembly code, probably in ROM). Hell, Nokia even screwed GDB in N9. The "debugger" crashes either the phone or (if you're lucky) only itself, when the application crashes, or it may happen randomly. You can barely singlestep during the "debugging" session, the "debugger" will usually skip some code, continue with "full" execution or just plainly crash. Breakpoints don't work most of the time. Capabilities are joke - they create annoying capability matching problems between DLLs, yet knowledgeable developer can crash the phone with providing incorrect arguments to system services (even by accident). Most APIs are buggy, incomplete and don't behave consistently on different phone and firmware models. It's just a tip of the iceberg.
428:, since these two entities are no longer responsible for the development of the platform. Moving to Symbian Ltd. would be a pure anachronism, since they were not actually responsible for Symbian^1 release which was made through Symbian Foundation, and the Foundation is a bad choice too because it was recently reduced to a bunch of accontants performing "licensing activities" (and when it wasn't, their activity mostly consisted of making numerious
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652:. You see, I was confused about the articles and about the contributors that might view my actions as unnecessary or reckless or think I'm a vandal. So I decided to write up what I did and why, and state how I rewrote it to fit together and that it wasn't mindlessly done. Makes sense? I hope that ends all confusion. --
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I came here to fin some basic facts on
Symbian, specifically the history of 2007-08 and ... I was sure that they were "here" last time I looked, but now there seems to be at least this one gaping hole: the dates in the Symbian version history are incomplete, with the most crucial one,. the release of
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Don't even get me started on
Symbian. I have almost 6 years experience with Symbian app development. Touch UI support in Symbian is a joke and just a quick hack - old AVKON/EIKON slapped together with mouse event emulation, which was there for a long time (that's why you can connect mouse to Nokia N8
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I agree with
Stichbury and disagree with Bpringlemeir. The article states "Symbian^1, as the first release, forms the basis for the platform. It incorporates Symbian OS and S60 5th Edition (which is built on Symbian OS 9.4) and thus it was not made available as open source." It incorporates but it is
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When Steve Jobs, bragged about the iPhone having 'facetime' this was non-sense. The SonyEricson P990i had a front facing camera and I had been using 3G video-dialing well ahead. Even with the iPhone, you could n't use the network, you had to be on
Wireless to use video calling. (this feature may be
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It is a shame, that this phone was beaten firstly by Apple and then
Android phones. If SonyEricson, had continued development of the P990i, there may well have been a challenger to the iPhone and Android. The P990i, did not have a centralised App marketplace (which was a strength of Apple iPhone and
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numbered releases like
Symbian^1 aka S60 5th Edition, which is largely synonymous with Symbian now, its latest reincarnation Symbian^3, and its updates that should make up the cancelled Symbian^4 release. So feel free to add more information about actual shortcomings in the current numbered versions.
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This is all specialized, inside knowledge but if you have some reputable sources for it then at least some of it can be added. From an outsider perspective relating to what you wrote, it is clear that
Symbian OS development went slow when compared to e.g. Android or iOS. And also that growth of the
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Yes it's good to try and get alignment of titles and content but the most important thing is to arrange the available data so that it is easy to search and that means going from the general to the specific smoothly. It really is irrelevant if there are many articles, the key is their relationship
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have (UIQ, S60 5th, S^3, etc.) couldn't (or can't) match the touchscreen UI experience on iOS and
Android, which appears to be responsible for the decline of Symbian's market share. This is something always peripherally insinuated and suggested in device reviews and editorials on tech sites and in
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I think that All about
Symbian is one of the best sources on Symbian, though it has clearly a pro-Symbian bias, but if even they find the web browser wanting after a thorough comparison then it can be safely stated as such. Also, there were some other website that referred to the test by All about
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Sorry, I know everyone's been working hard on it, but this article needs splitting not more mergeing and that's just the way it is. If we go on like this we'll end up with one mountain of an article simple headed Mobile
Technology!! Merges SEEM like a logical thing but this article demonstrates
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I was only trying to keep things simple since there was so much confusion regarding the Symbian articles. Plus, I was the only one who took the initiative (read: bold) to merge the articles and I therefore assumed I'd get a lot of backlash from others who didn't approve. Luckily the whole process
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This section needs to explain the legacy of Symbian platform which resulted in its current poor ratings, that's why it needs some historical details of bad design decisions and why did they happen; however it's focus on the events of the past is not intended. It should actually talk about current
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I think a new page that describes the Symbian platform in its state as an open source platform is acceptable and propose to start one by repopulating the page here. The page should be restricted to discussion of the new Symbian platform and not contain information about past releases, devices or
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It helps nobody to have an article which attempts to cover intricate and arcane detail at the same time as giving the broad overview. Sadly this article seems to do just that, missing critical dates off the timeline while giving a mass of impenetrable technical detail all wrapped up in a vast,
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It seems to be accepted that the main reason for Symbian's sharp market share loss since the introduction of the iPhone and Android was the failure of the platform's OEMs and/or contributors (read: Nokia) to create a Symbian user interface as similarly optimized for touch interaction as these
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is dead but still should there not be a reference to properly describe the history of Symbian? Or alternatively rephrase ”Since its creation Symbian“ to make it clear that the beginning of Symbian platform is meant (and therefore imply that Symbian OS might have had different choices if UI).
1265:; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Knowledge. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
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Sony Ericson developed the P800, P910 and then the P990i. All were Symbian based. The phones were ahead of their times. They ran Symbian and the clever thing was that they were touchscreen (operated by a stylus), with both a numeric keypad and a full QWERTY keyboard.
1326:! Who thought up that name as it sounds like a sex toy that has been around since the 1980s. I wonder how many people are going to feel comfortable with a sy(m)bian (sic)? In English pronunciation there is little difference between the two due to the soft em sound.
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has several packages added. However, just because Microsoft bundles IE with an OS release didn't give it a new page. Also, by having separate pages some of the history is missing. History is often important to readers of an Encyclopedia.
330:). Again I think this page only exist to ”beautify” Nokia's mistakes in (A) underestimating the importance of touch screens and (B) the choice of upgrading the non-touchscreen GUI “S60” over the already touch screen GUI “UIQ” (in a case of
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I believe it's time to start a Symbian platform page again. This page existed previously and was folded into the general Symbian OS page on the basis that they were much the same thing, and separation could be seen as a marketing ploy.
326:“touchscreens were practically nonexistent” is not true either. The “nonexistent” only applies for Nokia. Other companies had touch screen phones. For example Sony Ericsson had Symbian/UIQ based touch screen phones since 2002 (
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then later Android phones). Also, if they changed the screen from a stylus operated to finger touchscreen it would have been a step forward (although it was possible to use your finger, it was nevertheless delicate screen).
432:, while the actual code has been approved and contributed by Nokia alone due to their ultimate control of development teams for both Series 60 and Symbian OS). So this place is only logical to talk about current events. --
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Now that Symbian is a fully open source platform it is a different entity to the previous incarnation (Symbian OS plus UI platform) and explaining that clearly on a single page is becoming more and more convoluted.
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They removed a paragraph about declining market share. Yes, market share is covered in the previous paragraph, but with the exact opposite POV. This content should be incorporated into the Competition section.
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This is a failure on Sony, not to develop this phone further and match it when the Apple iPhone came out. Sony was wowed by the iPhone user interface, they forget they had stopped development on the P990i.
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When I say the phone was ahead of its 'time' - let me explain - it was a time when people carried iPods (for music) and classic phones (for phone calls). The P800 (and later series) was everything in one.
1553:; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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Fair point, but I wasn't attempting to say that Symbian is in decline because it wasn't the first to have touch interaction. What I wanted to add to the article was that the touch interfaces that it
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I hope everything looks fine from a user and a developer perspective. I have worked with the platform myself so I restructured and did the merge based on what I understand of the Symbian OS.
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s60 5th edition received bad reviews for its (resistive) mono-touchscreen UI (i.e. non-multitouchscreen). This can be stated with plenty of sources, I think.
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landing page from “redirect” to “disambiguation”. I made the same mistake on first seeing the page. And I know Symbian and the history fairly well. --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120630220551/http://www.thesmartpda.com/50226711/six_years_of_symbian_produces_100_models_and_100_million_shipments.php
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The criticism section should cover criticism published in reliable sources. I swapped in a ZDnet link for a blog post and I'm sure there's more. --
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Most of the criticism does not address the performance of the platform/OS but the internal workings of the organization. So it belongs at either
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I must admit, I still miss the P990i. It is a fantastic phone (both in physical design, clever flip out keypads) and clever in using the phone.
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exists. I have to agree that these articles are not very coherent and the history of symbian article was originally not even a history article.
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plaftorms, and I believe this should be added to the Criticism section; however, good, reliable sources that can verify this appear to be rare.
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the open source Symbian should stay here, the new closed source Symbian became Nokia OS, so Symbian still exists, as an open source system.
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not Symbian OS. Also all the planned releases have nothing to do with the old Symbian OS. The page could use a bit of cleanup though.
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I also think the internal workings of the Symbian foundation and Symbian Ltd are not very relevant. Consumers look at the peformance.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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784:(has been shut down now), on 6 November 2010, and if you selected year 2010 only devices from Nokia, Sharp and Fujitsu were listed.
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There certainly is a Windows 7 page, along with pages for most major releases of Windows, and for each major release of Mac OS X. --
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Now that Symbian website will be shut down, referenced articles will need to be archived with Web Cite or Internet Archive. --
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I made the same mistake too. Thanks for the disambig, but I do not think it is enough. I re-propose to merge the articles.
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http://library.forum.nokia.com/index.jsp?topic=%2FWeb_Developers_Library%2FGUID-B7D6EFF3-16E6-45D5-9B74-8333BA83FC7B.html
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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I see your point. The root cause is the very poorly organized set of articles on Symbian. The main article should be
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pages. I guess the major problem is in the naming. This is like someone making a Linux distribution and calling it
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100626044119/http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/06/23/nokia-qt-sdk-10-released/
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Can anyone find a similar situation where an OS version has been given a particular page? Ie, there is no
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To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant
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To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant
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If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used.
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workings of Symbian LTD and Symbian platform. Just one unconfirmed supposedly inside story is not enough.
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If anyone has some screenshots of Symbian running, they could greatly add to the content of the article.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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I think you can compare it with Debian and Ubuntu. One is based on another and both have a wiki page.
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Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with
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before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
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there are a bunch of other devices running Symbian that were released before those in the list. --
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Yes, there is some truth in it, but touch for symbian preceded iPhone and Android in the form of
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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http://webhost.bridgew.edu/jsantore/Teaching-Archive/Fall2010/MobileDev/SYMBIAN_MDD_sennur.pdf
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I'm super-confused about the talk pages. Would you explain where they ended up, and why? --
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I requested that move. Yet, I don't understand why you keep announcing the moves here. --
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120118163456/http://www.developer.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/
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There is already an article called Nokia OS. What should be done with that content?--
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I preferred the P990 ahead of the Nokia range of Symbian based smartphones....
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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https://archive.is/20130203165131/http://www.symbianone.com/content/view/7108/
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)
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available on older P800 or P910... I can't remember, but the P990i was 3G).
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File:Nokia N8 Symbian Belle Screenshot.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion
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How about the related talk page moves? Those moves confuse me, a lot. --
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called Symbian/S60 crufty and slow to improve. Read the interview here
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http://www.watblog.com/2010/02/06/symbian-os-now-fully-open-source
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The article needs an update for Symbian Anna and new models, like
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Competition and alternatives. Device manufacturers pullout sources
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I'm the one responsible for the merging of the following pages:
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http://www.symbianblogs.com/history/110-symbian-2--history.html
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I do not agree with the amount and quality of sourcing for the
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went smoothly and someone even did the last bit by renaming
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magazines, but never clearly enough to be used as sources.
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http://blog.symbian.org/2009/04/16/symbian-on-intels-atom/
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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If the image has already been deleted you may want to try
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I disagree completely. The user below is also confused.
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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P990i - exception Symbian based phone ahead of its time
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to the Criticism section concern me for three reasons:
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It is without doubt the best phone I have ever used!!
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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on the basis that this page is company propaganda. --
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Comments and everything accepted. Thank you, Tom --
2023:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1815:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1564:If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no
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File:Nokia N8 Smartphone.jpg Nominated for Deletion
1439:, please explain your reasons, taking into account
1276:If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no
1111:If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no
1029:If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no
420:However I don't think this part should be moved to
232:the devices list only has some more recent devices
1292:image page (File:SymbianBelle-ScreenShotsES.png)
265:to prevent such misunderstanding I changed the
2009:This message was posted before February 2018.
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1763:http://qt.nokia.com/products/platform/symbian/
334:). If the vote comes up again my vote will be
251:oops, aparently it's no the same Symbian... --
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1985:http://www.symbianone.com/content/view/7108/
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1318:Marketing name...I nearly fell of my chair
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1879:I have just modified 9 external links on
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322:touchscreens were practically nonexistent
1617:that it often isn't as simple as that.
1613:rambling and barely coherent article.
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1917:http://developer.nokia.com/Develop/Qt/
1209:This notification is provided by a Bot
1126:This notification is provided by a Bot
1044:This notification is provided by a Bot
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1790:to let others know (documentation at
1536:, has been nominated for deletion at
7:
1441:Knowledge's policy on article titles
1370:The result of the move request was:
1568:then it cannot be uploaded or used.
1322:Classic Nokia...sounds almost like
1280:then it cannot be uploaded or used.
1246:File:SymbianBelle-ScreenShotsES.png
1115:then it cannot be uploaded or used.
1033:then it cannot be uploaded or used.
506:Recent merge into Symbian platform
24:
1883:. Please take a moment to review
1745:. Please take a moment to review
1081:File:Symbian Belle Screenshot.jpg
967:number of applications was slow.
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1999:Corrected formatting/usage for
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1532:An image used in this article,
1244:An image used in this article,
1192:then you may need to provide a
1162:An image used in this article,
1079:An image used in this article,
997:An image used in this article,
373:Some will move to forum Nokia.
2077:19:38, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
1600:Request to SPLIT this article.
999:File:Symbian Anna Snapshot.png
915:10:16, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
901:09:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
878:11:34, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
859:08:25, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
782:http://www.symbian.org/devices
389:Off topic contents: criticisms
1:
1429:, then sign your comment with
1342:17:39, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
1309:15:11, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
943:09:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
683:Criticism in reliable sources
627:14:45, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
605:14:41, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
563:06:03, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
548:11:56, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
88:16:28, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
1542:Deletion requests April 2012
1534:File:Nokia N8 Smartphone.jpg
1221:15:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
1138:14:30, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
767:02:59, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
498:17:27, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
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448:20:19, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
411:19:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
383:09:16, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
368:20:36, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
1540:in the following category:
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741:20:50, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
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2140:
2040:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1876:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1867:06:50, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
1832:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1738:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1591:02:41, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
1494:20:22, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
1466:06:34, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
1406:18:22, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
1384:12:04, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
1285:Commons Undeletion Request
1252:for the following reason:
1120:Commons Undeletion Request
1087:for the following reason:
1038:Commons Undeletion Request
1005:for the following reason:
868:. I dunno why UIQ failed.
525:Into the following pages:
227:14:07, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
201:02:25, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
839:07:29, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
812:20:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
794:01:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
575:further moved this page:
343:05:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
317:07:19, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
288:08:43, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
274:05:06, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
1728:11:03, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
1508:Please do not modify it.
1478:Any additional comments:
1362:Please do not modify it.
261:04:32, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
246:04:26, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
186:09:51, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
166:13:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
134:21:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
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1872:External links modified
1734:External links modified
1675:21:27, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
1646:16:59, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
1627:20:30, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
844:Criticism not extensive
1659:Someone update this.
1583:CommonsNotificationBot
1301:CommonsNotificationBot
1213:CommonsNotificationBot
1130:CommonsNotificationBot
1089:Other speedy deletions
1048:CommonsNotificationBot
2097:of past discussions.
42:of past discussions.
2021:regular verification
1813:regular verification
1254:Copyright violations
1007:Copyright violations
348:symbian.org shutdown
2011:After February 2018
1803:After February 2018
1782:parameter below to
1182:deletion guidelines
800:Sony Ericsson Vivaz
690:recent set of edits
2065:InternetArchiveBot
2016:InternetArchiveBot
1808:InternetArchiveBot
1634:history of Symbian
1566:fair use rationale
1278:fair use rationale
1194:fair use rationale
1113:fair use rationale
1031:fair use rationale
535:History of Symbian
422:Symbian Foundation
399:Symbian Foundation
328:Sony_Ericsson_P800
151:. I get that the
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2103:current talk page
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1546:What should I do?
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1258:What should I do?
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1173:What should I do?
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1085:Wikimedia Commons
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757:comment added by
703:I question using
430:design committees
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1420:*'''Support'''
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1714:— Preceding
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395:Symbian Ltd.
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304:I know that
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193:210.84.59.38
178:81.181.70.18
158:Bpringlemeir
152:
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145:Debian Lenny
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126:81.181.70.18
105:Bpringlemeir
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18:Talk:Symbian
2091:This is an
1794:Sourcecheck
1720:92.25.19.47
1551:Don't panic
1263:Don't panic
1178:Don't panic
1098:Don't panic
1016:Don't panic
753:—Preceding
654:Tom Jenkins
602:Tom Jenkins
573:User:BD2412
545:Tom Jenkins
172:—Preceding
120:—Preceding
36:This is an
2072:Report bug
1472:Discussion
520:Symbian OS
253:TiagoTiago
238:TiagoTiago
2121:Archive 2
2115:Archive 1
2055:this tool
2048:this tool
1969:dead link
1955:dead link
1847:this tool
1840:this tool
1372:not moved
731:Symbian.
141:Windows 7
80:Stichbury
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
2061:Cheers.—
1853:Cheers.—
1716:unsigned
1663:unsigned
1559:non-free
1435:. Since
1394:Nokia OS
1376:JHunterJ
1330:unsigned
1271:non-free
1190:non-free
1106:non-free
1024:non-free
827:Nokia X7
786:Yosh3000
755:unsigned
472:internal
340:Krischik
314:Krischik
271:Krischik
174:unsigned
153:platform
122:unsigned
2094:archive
1973:tag to
1959:tag to
1885:my edit
1881:Symbian
1863::Online
1780:checked
1747:my edit
1743:Symbian
1638:Andries
1390:Symbian
969:Andries
935:Andries
907:Andries
870:Andries
831:Andries
804:Andries
733:Andries
650:Symbian
589:Symbian
515:Symbian
490:Andries
476:Andries
458:Andries
454:Symbian
443:contibs
403:Andries
375:Andries
363:contibs
280:Andries
267:Symbian
149:Linux 3
39:archive
1965:Added
1951:Added
1788:failed
1450:Oppose
1411:Survey
1324:sybian
893:Capdor
851:Capdor
434:Dmitry
354:Dmitry
1454:Split
747:Wi-Fi
707:as a
336:merge
16:<
1784:true
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