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Burgundy and recently handed over coverage of the region to an assistant). But other winemakers are beginning to speak up. Last year, for instance, Parker was publicly slammed by the
Mondavis, the first family of American wine. He had alleged, in print, that the Mondavi winery was slipping because it was not fashioning the kind of blockbuster Cabernets that are currently Napa Valley's stock in trade (and that Parker loves). The Mondavis pointedly replied that their aim is to craft elegant, food-friendly wines, not critic bait. More interestingly, the buzz at this year's annual Bordeaux barrel tastings was that several prominent winemakers known for turning out turbocharged wines have now renounced that approach and are embracing a more traditional style that emphasizes finesse over power."
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article is given as a source. The BBC article does not mention the movie "Mondovino", though. Also, no such statement is made in the movie. I also do not see how that movie itself could "claim" anything - it consists entirely of interviews, so only the people being interviewed can make claims. Let me know if I misunderstood the sentence - but I really think it should be changed (delete the reference to the movie? or someone has to rewatch it and check, who is actually making this claim ;) )
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samples and asked Parker to retaste. Upon arriving, Parker was attacked by
Hebrard's dog as the manager stood idly by and watched. When Parker asked for a bandage to stop the bleeding from his leg, Parker says Hebrard instead gave him a copy of the offending newsletter. Hebrard denies that Parker was bleeding. (McCoy, pages 159-160)
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I am a wine consumer, and I found much truth in this article, especially his impact on wine quality, prices, and availability, both good and, now that he is famous and powerful, bad. I also find his objectivity and thus his value as a critic lessened since his early guides from the 1980's. Still to
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The article repeatedly insists that Parker is "pro-consumer", whereas many in the wine industry feel he is completely beholden to his pet wineries, as evidenced by his frequent refusal to do blind tastings. (This latter point is one I have heard many
Australian winemakers complain bitterly about, and
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I see Fmh1964's edit of 30 May 2007 tries to imply that
British wine writers use points in a similar way to Parker, just out of 20. I'd disagree. The "20-pointers' seem to use points more for internal use just within a particular tasting, or at most within a particular class of wine, rather than as
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I've edited the first paragraph to a more NPOV, according to my journalistic training, and reasonable international knowledge of the wine world, because it was somewhat platitudinal in vocab, and boosterish. Some subtle rearrangement and substitution. This should be acceptable both to his friends and
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To my reading, this paragraph simply parrots the definition of ethical standards, and seems to suggest that Parker abides by them, but provides no basis for that belief. All conmen seek to convince their victims that they abide by ethical standards; I'm not suggesting that Parker is a conman, simply
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As I copy-edited the article, I kept an eye out for bias. As it stands currently, I don't see any particularly obvious bias in the article, but then I'm not intimately familiar with the wine world. Perhaps everyone could take a look at it and see if we're ready to remove the POV/neutrality banner?
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Well, I agree that some of the parts you quote seem like pro-Parker POV. But the section "Parker's flexible ethical standards" on the other hand contains fairly anti-Parker POV, and we're writing an encyclopedia rather than a review of, or discussion board on, Parker or
Parkerized wines. In general,
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Because of his powerful influence, his experiences have ranged from having two chateau owners offer him the sexual favours of their daughters to receiving death threats. On one occasion the manager of
Chateau Cheval Blanc, Jacques Hebrard, was outraged at Parker's evaluation of his 81 vintage barrel
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The
Burgundy market has become confused since Robert Parker stopped visiting Burgundy. No one knows if they should believe Pierre Rovani, no one really believes Steve Tanzer other than crazy Burgundy geeks and me, who is Clive Coates anyhow(?), and the Wine Spectator will no doubt review the vintage
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OK, before making some comments let me state that I am (a) partially involved in the wine industry and (b) more or less despise Parker and everything he stands for. So with that negative bias acknowledged, let me make some observations of my own before making any changes to the article. Basically I
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Yep, well aware I can edit, but if I know that I don't know enough about a subject (I came here, surprisingly enough, because I wanted to know who this 'Parker' guy was, rather than because I'm a domain expert...) then I'll just politely suggest the article may be flawed and move on. And I'm not a
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The section on his ranking system for wines implies that this is a universally accepted standard - living in the UK I've never heard of him until reading this article, let alone his points system for wines. It certainly is not used on store shelves in this country or anywhere else in Europe as far
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Well, feel free to cut down the article's length to 1/3 or 1/4 of what it is now. The problem with the article isn't just that it lacks sources for some statements, it's that much of it is unencyclopedic and the article gives a "schizo-POV" impression: some parts celebrate him, other are likely on
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I agree with the 3 of you. However the only serious sources I found to-date are McCoy (2005) and
Agostini and Guichard (2007, in French), the latter being very critical of Parker. I have tried to take the best pieces of Agostini and Guichard to make this article closer to a NPOV but as I can see a
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I actually found two other sources to back the claim, one of which is the Los
Angeles Times. So the claim was correct, but the citation was not. However, I think the article may still be misleading. It seems like holding the wine in your mouth for five seconds and then spitting it out is a very
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McCoy reports the positive article written by Parker in the second issue of The
Baltimore/Washington Wine Advocate on McArthur Liquors and his manager Addy Bassin. However Parker did not mention that the same Addy Bassin gave Parker the first file of 600 customers who received for free the first
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In the section "Impact on the supply: the "Parkerization" of wine" the following statement is made: "This point of view is presented in the 2004 documentary, Mondovino, which claims that Parker is "a man whose tastes are irrevocably changing the way some French wines are made" ". A link to a BBC
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How in god's name does the comma add anything? Just let sentences run. With minimal stoppage. That is what sentences are for. Trying to read an entire article like this is the literary equivalent of trying to do John Cleece's Silly Walk. You are constantly stopping and jerking, interrupting your
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Completed a major copy edit. Wow, that was a tough one. Updated a lot of the references, bringing them up to date with the style guide, and chasing down refs that were broken or incorrect. I added a bunch of new ones as I found them, too. Deleted one or two insupportable statements that have
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Under "The 100 point system," the claim is made that Parker can tell everything about a wine in five seconds. A reference to an episode of 60 Minutes is given. That clip is available online—I've added a reference with the link—and I cannot find anything in the interview to justify this claim.
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Having read Agostini and Guichard's account of the 2003 Pavie (in French unfortunately), it seems to me that Parker's positive comments were not enough to keep the price up. This is why I preferred to delete the initial text with citations as it gave a different impression. Feel free to correct.
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about this, how he could give 20 out of 20 to a Beaujolais or house claret or Midi Chardonnary, even though the latter was in no way as good as a 17/20 Montrachet. And in his books he avoids the use of points, he just talks about 'good', 'very fine' etc. From what I can work out, Jancis uses a
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This is actually a pretty good biography, and very neutral for something from his own site. However, do we have permission to modify it? The influence of Parker's scores on the wine world is perhaps his most important impact, and it is not discussed at all. I would rather have a small article
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Parker's grip on the wine world may be starting to loosen, however. It used to be that only the Burgundians, who make minute quantities of highly coveted wines and therefore have little need to placate the press, had the courage not to kowtow to Parker (indeed, he is now a persona non grata in
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The second issue of The Baltimore/Washington Wine Advocate informs the reader that "Robert Parker has no interest, direct or indirect, financial or any other, in importing, distributing or selling wines" . In the early 90’s, Parker invests with his brother-in-law, Michael Etzel, in an Oregon
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The subheading "2.2 A new tool for the consumer: Parker's 100-point rating system" seems to imply that rating systems only came about with Parker, which is completely untrue. Parker has popularised the 100 point system, but the European 20 point system has been around for a LONG time (I am
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discussing Parker and the effect of scores than a large biography that overlooks that point. Also, the ad at the bottom for erobertparker.com (a fine site that I myself visit a few times a week) seems slighly inappropriate, although as a newbie I don't know what the rules are on that.
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about a wine.." then it's obviously controversial and needs exact sourcing. It seems unlikely he would say this too. Just that he tends to give 5-10 secs per wine when doing large tastings isn't particularly necessary to the article since it's so widely practiced.
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Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! --
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lacked references for years, or that were written in editorial language. As someone who occasionally buys wine for cooking, but doesn't drink the stuff, it was an interesting topic, and I hope I was able to bring a neutral outside viewpoint to the article.
1877:. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging
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I attended a Burgundy wine tasting recently and the vintner from France was fuming at various points about Robert Parker and I think he said there had been lawsuits. I searched and found this, but would be interested in more info if anybody has it:
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Ok, I changed the sentence and took out the reference to the movie. In the source it is stated, that the BBC correspondent in Paris made the cited ::statement. She is not in the movie - so I don't know how the movie got mixed up with that source.
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Well, this article's been kicking my butt all afternoon, so I'm going to leave it to others to chase down more hard references to his exact claim and phrasing. It sounds like it certainly needs to be flagged for verification, and I've done so.
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Firstly this is a great article; a lot of really good work here. But it is clear to me that most of it has been written/edited by a millennial or someone hostage to their habits of putting, commas EVERYWHERE. Take, for example, this sentence:
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I can't figure out if the number 81 refers to the year 1981, a wine with a rating of 81, or maybe even (though I doubt it) 81 samples of the said wine. Could someone more knowledgeable than myself clarify this and edit the page accordingly?
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This article seems to have been placed by Parker's publicists. I was tempted to mark it for deletion on the grounds of self-promotion or advertising, but I suspect that would be harsh. Anybody want to take a look at a more balanced view?
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By the way, for some of the existing references, I was able to add relevant quotations that appear in the References section. I think this helps address any POV issues—it makes it easier to see what the main article is paraphrasing.
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me section 3, critical of him, is gossipy and inappropriate in an encyclopedia article - it reads more like a tabloid or political attack. I am a scientist and used to objective writing and think section 3 should be deleted.mathwonk
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vineyard: les "Beaux-Frères". Robert Kacher is in charge of distributing half of the production of the Beaux-Frères vineyard. Of course, Parker does not assess the wines of this property, for "obvious deontological reasons".
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either 3 months before they are available or 3 to 6 months after they are available. This leaves everyone bewildered. Distributors and merchants will actually have to make decisions unaided by enthusiastic publicity."
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big 'wikipedian' - I came back to see how well the 'discussion' process works and I'm impressed, other than by the attitude :) Anyway, cheers for the good work. Maybe some day I'll sign up for a user account...--
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that the article should not pretend to know whether Parker abides by ethical standards or not. Since it is a controversial topic, for now I'm making my suggestion here rather than changing the article directly.
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I added a reference to Emile Peynaud who (according to Agostini and Guichard) seems to have been the one who initiated the change in winemaking that became later to be known as the "Parkerisation of wines".
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The statement about Parker's affinity for "brettanomyces and volatile acidity" has no basis in fact and is contrary to everything I know about Robery M. Parker. Please cite references or delete.
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Here it could be mentioned that aside from the regular disclaimer, when this situation arose "Parker informed his Advocate readers and promised never to review any wines produced there."
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feel that the article is too positive and too kind. He is without a doubt the most important wine critic in the world, but he is far more controversial than this article seems to imply.
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Thanks to Bertrand77 for finding a link to justify the statement about "some critics" disagreeing with the 100-point system. I've reworded that sentence based upon the cited reference.
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I agree, the page is too pro Parker, especially the first section which is just lifted from his own website. I may add some more on controversy, as that seems to be the general view?
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The subheading "the first independent and impartial pro-consumer wine critic" has no place in Knowledge as it constitutes a highly controversial statement and one that is unverified.
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In fact the article originated as a cut-and-paste job from Parker's web site, see comments below, hence it was as you say rather self-promoting. It is now much better, more NPOV.
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I shall endeavour to find an independent resource for it. Parker's website claims the contrary, so I can't write otherwise until I have something more than anecdotal evidence).
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the border of being libelous. Adding more sources wouldn't solve this basic problem. I would very much prefer a significantly shorter article written in dry, academic prose.
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Since that's pretty much exactly the contention and you have verified that it just isn't so, it would appear you've unveiled something untrue that should be removed.
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Is there a reason why the immense amount of controversy over (and in some areas, rage about) Parker's influence on the wine industry is only barely touched upon? --
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I altered a similar comment in the source code to reflect that, while the article may have originated with such text, it is no longer solely composed of such text.
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common tasting practice, according to a Google search. Are there citable sources to say otherwise, or to say that this technique was not common before Parker?
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I'm sure many agree with the above. Until someone (preferably armed with the sources) is motivated to seize this problem, I'll point to some specifics:
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Tempted to begin boldly hacking away at some things, but I don't have the necessary resources and the job seems a bit too big for my plate right now.
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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level.
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There have been more attacks recently (although the Burgundy stuff has been going on for a while). A lot of it came to a head after the release of
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Just about all of them! Any pictures of wine regions, grape varieties or wine would be useful. In particular we need wine region maps that can be
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by Tyler Colman. See reference 1. I admit I cheated and went from the "Search inside this book" feature on Amazon when adding that link...
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Guys, you can edit wikipedia pages you know! I have removed the 'impossible to miss' phrase and inserted 'in North America' as you suggest.
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as I know - I don't know enough background to make the edit myself, but strongly suspect this should all be qualified with 'in the USA...' --
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What remains is a claim that misrepresents the cited source. Either the claim should be restated to match the source, or deleted entirely. -
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I found the article here to be too much of a list of medals and awards. That part would better be presented as a list, and not "fake prose"
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It is very common and not at all something attributable to Parker. He would never say so either, but if he is quoted to say "I can tell
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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This really shouldn't be part of the page contents, as it discourages people from updating it, and sounds like an advertisement. --
157:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
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Any comments? I don't want to start editing without some form of consensus, partticularly given my obvious dislike of the subject.
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The punctuation in your example is correct. The comma is necessary to separate the introductory clause from the main clause (
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at all editing Knowledge articles about people you claim to "more or less despise" including "everything stand for" must be
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I cleared up the publcity section into a more readable and useful list. If anyone can be bothered to add ISBN's please do!
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I don't know what the McCoy source states specifically, but the above phrase contradicts other sources that state Parker
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The citation should reference the person being interviewed, not just the movie. I'd say remove this if it adds no value.
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in strong terms! Please remember that articles about living people are much more sensitive to edit than other articles!
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I agree that the article does not seem neutral enough. Would be great if you found some good solid sources and edit.
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I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at
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I've sort of merged the text, the whole article could do with a general cleanup from a copyediting and citation POV.
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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the merge. I really can't see that article becoming more then a stub and Robert Parker is obviously the
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Imagine a whole novel! I hate to think what an unedited novel by a 25 year old must read like. Crikey.
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I can chip in some form of consensus. Quite a bit of work is needed for this article to achieve NPOV.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110519182406/http://www.finewinemag.com/docs/SteinbergerWineWriting.pdf
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This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Agree - except I'd suggest in 'in North America... ' as he's popular in Canada too.
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I've rephrased this somewhat in copy-edit, in an attempt to address your concerns.
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I removed the notice of copywrite infringement and replaced it with a stub page.
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I received permision from Mark Braunstein of eRobertParker.com to copy the page
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similar system - you don't see point scores on her mainstream articles in the
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In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
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Ending DOT in the name causes problems in interwiki links. Why not "%2E"
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Thanks for digging in where many of us others are too terrified. Cheers.
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context that one would would use the phrase Wine Parkerization.
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If you want, create a redirect page with the name you prefer. -
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Unknown-importance biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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http://www.finewinemag.com/docs/SteinbergerWineWriting.pdf
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Btw I have nothing to do with wine: I am just a consumer.
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I added the two awards Parker received in 2002 and 2005.
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In other words, Parker accused Faiveley of cheating.
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This article talk page was automatically added with
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http://www.datamantic.com/joedressner/pageforward/9/
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C-Class biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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2249:C-Class level-5 vital articles
1904:The article currently states:
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848:Guild of Copy Editors articles
728:Template:Infobox grape variety
178:Template:WikiProject Biography
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2168:Commas, oh my GOD THE COMMAS!
1229:01:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
1082:03:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
906:20:06, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
286:and see a list of open tasks.
199:This article is supported by
24:biographies of living persons
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1982:23:11, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
1955:23:08, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
1934:23:08, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
1844:23:08, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
1834:How does the POV look now?
1749:23:08, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
1694:23:35, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
1659:lot still needs to be done.
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1549:22:36, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
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1311:20:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
1168:10:53, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
1159:13:10, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
1069:23:08, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
36:must be removed immediately
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2126:(last update: 5 June 2024)
2062:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1919:20:01, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
1864:WikiProject Food and drink
1853:WikiProject Food and drink
1771:the customer list and not
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1094:14:53, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
965:11:21, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
318:project's importance scale
271:WikiProject Food and drink
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2053:13:16, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
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1037:19:32 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)
986:and in a Slate article
503:wine serving temperature
2058:External links modified
1358:Awards and Recognitions
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511:Start class articles
2097:After February 2018
1775:as WP here states.
1325:has a good article
1191:In this paragraph:
466:, particularly the
329:Related taskforces:
2180:natural momentum.
2151:InternetArchiveBot
2102:InternetArchiveBot
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1236:Wine Parkerization
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2158:Report bug
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1754:Specifics
1201:Brian8710
1053:Eloquence
1005:Mondovino
172:Biography
112:Biography
81:is rated
40:libellous
2147:Cheers.—
1978:contribs
1966:unsigned
1439:Amatulić
1217:unsigned
898:Amatulic
888:contribs
876:unsigned
725:Infobox:
700:licensed
661:Copyedit
621:Riesling
564:Grenache
509:, other
474:" ones,
361:inactive
2200:Example
2071:my edit
2045:Khazar2
1970:Macwhiz
1947:Macwhiz
1926:Macwhiz
1855:Tagging
1836:Macwhiz
1818:Tomas e
1741:Macwhiz
1709:Tomas e
1686:Macwhiz
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1568:Macwhiz
1512:Macwhiz
1476:Macwhiz
1458:Xtothel
1421:Xtothel
1274:scharks
1264:Support
1243:Support
1199:Thanks.
1151:Macwhiz
1061:Macwhiz
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921:Justinc
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828:Macwhiz
774:history
770:discuss
666:Aligoté
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484:Improve
395:history
316:on the
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926:Done.
739:Other:
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572:Merlot
468:region
458:Expand
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1173:Books
778:watch
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470:and "
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400:watch
280:drink
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1996:URGH
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766:edit
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390:edit
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2115:RfC
2085:to
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