Talk:Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness/GA1

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lowliest of rabble both conspire to define the destiny of mankind. It has been only recently that I have, regrettably, become directly involved in the matters of men. For countless ages it has been the charge of my Order to shelter and protect mortal man from the mysteries of the Great Dark, and the palpable, heinous evils of the realms beyond. To battle these dark forces of the Twisting Nether we were given considerable power, and longevity rivaling that of even the ancient Elves. With this power came one grave burden - The Guardian must not interfere with the affairs of men until the time comes when a successor must be chosen and the mantle of guardianship is passed to another. Thus did I - Aegwyn, last Guardian of the Order of Tirisfal - judge that my time had come. Forty-two winters had passed since I first came to the kingdom of Azeroth in search of the Conjurer Nielas Aran. It was he whom I had chosen to sire the heir of my powers. Nielas was exceptionally talented in the simple conjurative magiks of men, and I believed that he would be the perfect mortal father for my child… and so he was … I gave birth to a son and named him Medivh - or “Keeper of Secrets” in the ancient tongue of the Elves - in the fall of the year 559. I transferred all of my knowledge and power into the infant, locking it deeply within him to manifest itself only when he reached physical maturity. Believing that my work on this world was done and seeing that my son would be cared for by Nielas’ people, I wandered across the fields of time, preparing myself for the passing. I kept a distant, watchful eye on my son for much of his young life. I was assured that the deep-seeded altruism of Tirisfal would guide him in his trials and temper his heart and mind as to make him worthy of the Guardianship that was, I believed, his destiny. On the eve of the marking of his thirteenth birthday, the power locked deep inside of my son awakened. Unable to deal with the raw, cosmic energies surging inside him, Medivh suffered a massive psychic trauma. He was pacified by the good Clerics of the Northshire. They removed the youth to their sacred Abbey and for six years tended to his all but comatose body. Eventually, Medivh awakened from his sleep seemingly in full control of his faculties and powers. Yet, underneath the confident and almost arrogant facade, I somehow knew that my son had become malevolent and corrupt. The wisdom and power that was his birthright had been perverted by distant forces within the Twisting Nether, altering the Human part of his soul and marking him with its evil touch forever.

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rank, acrid smell of the huge victory fires that consumed the bodies of their young. The Draenei were a weak people - hardly worth the effort of our raiding sweep. In the end, however, even these simple victories serve to keep the inferior in their place …It has always been so with my kind. The savage, brutal tendencies of the masses are easily manipulated by those who hold true power. Power is the true force that drives the great destructive machine that is the Horde. Those who imagine themselves in possession of this power rally around their clan banners of violence. Yet without a common foe, even the leaders of the Orc clans blindly turn upon each other. The appetite for destruction that prevails amongst these fools drives the Horde; might and might alone is honored above all things. I am Gul’dan - the greatest of all Warlocks and Initiate of the Seventh Circle of the Shadow Council. No one knows the dark, burning allure of ultimate power better than I. In what passed as my youth, I studied Orc magiks through the tribal Shaman of my clan. My natural talent for channeling the cold, negative-energies of the Twisting Nether brought me notable standing amongst the other Shaman, and I knew that even Ner’zhul, the greatest of my teachers, became jealous of me as my abilities grew ever stronger. My aspirations rose higher than those of my peers and masters alike, for I knew that the scope of their vision was limited by their devotion to the advancement of the Horde. I cared nothing for the Horde or its petty politics. I cared nothing for this world over which we had complete dominion. I cared only for the chance to fathom the spiraling mysteries of the Great Dark Beyond. I had begun secret explorations of energies far beyond the scope of anything that my so-called tutors could possibly comprehend. It was at this time that I discovered a being of immense power - the Daemon Kil’jaeden. I was in awe of his heartless fury. To witness his awesome power was to be all but consumed. In the fleeting, fevered nightmares he brought me, I touched the essence of that which lies Beyond. Within me an unfathomable lust was sewn - a desire to wield the fury of ethereal storms and to stand unscathed within the dying hearts of burning suns.

966:"Blizzard Entertainment's initial response to Command and Conquer was a design that combined modern and fantasy elements, such as fighter pilots ambushed by a fire-breathing dragon. However, they found that this did not work, and that there was plenty of content for a fantasy RTS. Blizzard developed Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness ("WC II"), and released the MS-DOS version in 1995 and the Macintosh version in August 1996."→This is misleading, as it sounds like WarCraft II was developed immediately in response to C&C. 215:"Blizzard Entertainment's initial response to Command and Conquer was a design that combined modern and fantasy elements, such as fighter pilots ambushed by a fire-breathing dragon. However, they found that this did not work, and that there was plenty of content for a fantasy RTS. Blizzard developed Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness ("WC II"), and released the MS-DOS version in 1995 and the Macintosh version in August 1996."→This is misleading, as it sounds like WarCraft II was developed immediately in response to C&C. 509:

be discussed before the development, marketing, and reception of its sequel. Just because another article is not fully structured yet does not mean that details that should belong on that page should be crammed in elsewhere. No such article has to "rely" on another to be comprehensible. We're not a game guide, which is why I do not understand your comment, ""Gameplay" must be first, as it allows readers to decide whether the game is good and whether it's to the reader's taste". This isn't an article for

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buildings." Would you prefer this split into 2 sentences, e.g. "Both sides produce ground combat units from their Barracks. However, both need the assistance of other buildings to produce more advanced combat units and to upgrade all combat units. In addition some of the support buildings are prequisites for others." --

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storyline just get introduced before hand, and then the scenarios are pretty unconnected, or do the scenarios make up the storyline? If the latter, then I would like to see information on when the storyline occurs (ie which bits happen in the original game and in the expansion). But as I say, that may not be relevant.

3006:

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to agree with the majority of the above reviews. At the moment this article simply does not meet the GA requirements. I think the best thing to do would be to delist (or fail) the article for the time being, and take it to a peer review, where I am sure that myself

2248:

until both the reviewers and the nominator are in aggreeance that it is ready for renomination. The nominator has done an excellent job citing things, however there's just too much disagreement on presentation to come to a consensus right now. Recommending a Peer Review and then a renomination once

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Like an elemental force of havoc and destruction we thundered through the lands of the Draenei devastating all that we beheld. Not one life was spared. No building was left standing. The only traces of their existence were the blood-soaked fields they had worked for nearly five thousand years and the

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No, storyline should definitely be in front of those things. With movie articles, the plot is before the release and reception sections. Production and background is in front of release and reception for music album articles as well. It's a more important section, since it explains the contents of

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Beginning of gameplay: "Warcraft II is a real time strategy game (RTS), in other words the contenders play at the same time and continuously, so that players have to move quickly." Bad, almost game-guide tone, how about just explaining what an RTS is instead of beating around the bush and giving us a

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Tezero's exact words are "last four reviewers". There are 1 aggregate and 2 reviews which you have chosen to use which are built into the template, and then 1 aggregate and 4 reviews which are custom; i.e., they need to be added as I have done. He presumably means the custom parameters—the 4 reviews

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Addressing the rest: What the suggested organization of a video game article tries to do is consider the article first from the perspective of the game: we're keeping the plot, gameplay, and setting together. Then, we take a look at the stuff that doesn't have such an intimate connection to the game

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Is a paraphrase of "Blizzard's horde was cruel and barbaric, but far from the mindless monsters of J.R.R Tolkien's universe. They were a proud, noble race of warriors, with their own culture, lore, and traditions. Humans, too, had their dark side, and Warcraft Adventures hoped to blur those lines of

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That is elaborated on below. The point is, this article flaunts established convention for structuring video game articles for no good reason, including lots of irrelevant details and bad structuring that does not proceed logically. Information about how Warcraft: Orcs and Humans was received should

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says, "Then again, Blizzard itself was in a kind of turmoil of its own at the time, with many long-time employees leaving to form spin-offs, while dozens of new employees came in to work on StarCraft, Diablo II, Battle.net, and the company's many other projects. To add to the chaos, Blizzard itself

2374:

I think the Predecessor stuff should be moved to about the start of the Publication section for chronology's sake. "Predecessor and sequels" is a rather problematic name for a section, especially when it consists only of two subsections called "Predecessor" and "Sequels". The way it is now makes it

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However, I disgree with the impication that "History: discuss development, release, impact, critical response, etc." should follow plot - as I've already said, "History: discuss development, release, impact, critical response, etc." are based on gameplay, and for the benefit of readers there should

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showed me for managing books that consist of articles / chapters, without duplicating the book details (title, editor,publisher, ISBN, etc.) - it's in the "References" section of the example. You'd need to decide whether it's useful for video games. I'll use it as needed in other topics, and should

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There's lots of awkward or unnecessary phrasing. Beginning of gameplay: "Warcraft II is a real time strategy game (RTS), in other words the contenders play at the same time and continuously, so that players have to move quickly." Bad, almost game-guide tone, how about just explaining what an RTS is

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This article is structure in a rather funky way that is, in a word, bad. Why is there a "Predecessor" subsection? Why is it so long? Why is it buried at the end of the article, when any relevant information should be with development and establishing context earlier? Why is there so much on sequels

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2 different reviewers agreed on the same criterion for inclusion in the storyline, and that it should be first so that later sections can refer it, e.g. "Reception". There was no suggestion that the film or VG game(s) should precede the storyline. In an article about a VG game, the gameplay is the

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builders can also construct Farms, each of which provides food for up to four units, and additional units cannot be produced until enough Farms are built. Farms are also the toughest perimeter defense. Humans and Orcs have sets of buildings with similar functions, but different names and graphics,

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is not a sequel. It's in a completely separate game universe. You might call it a game that followed the footsteps of WC2, or something similar, but it's definitely not a sequel. You could change the section to indicate that somehow. Hopefully someone else can make further remarks about other

2073:

I would strongly disagree. As someone who started out simply reading the article it was very distracting as it is. The Reception section serves as an excellent concluder to an article, and is expected by most readers to be at the end. Users searching for a synopsis when scrolling through the

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The basics just under "Gameplay" is a mini-lead. "Economy and power" and "User interface" should form a sequence, first the concepts and then the visual implementation. "Economy and power" is about the "collect resources, built army, destroy enemies" pattern. "Modes" should precede "Economy and

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I'm not overly fussed about the location of the Storyline section; I'd rather see it earlier in the article, but it's not to me a huge issue. What I am more interested in is how the storyline pans out. I must admit, as I have never played the game, I don't really know how it works. Does the

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1 Could you please give some examples of where you think the prose is poor. For example you criticised "The more advanced combat units are produced at the same buildings as the basic units but also need the assistance of other buildings, or must be produced at buildings that have prerequisite

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My name is Aegwyn, and for over one thousand years I have wandered the realms of this world and endeavored to safeguard the peoples of its lands against the ethereal powers of the Great Dark Beyond. I have seen mighty kingdoms rise and fall. I have witnessed the deeds of high nobility and the

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I'm sorry, but that is original research. The source says nothing about "too many" projects. It mentions losing employees, getting new employees, and have many other projects. That's entirely different from your article text says by making a judgment about how many projects is too many.

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I don't have a strong opinion on the gameplay section. A gameplay section is definitely a necessity for a game article, but I'm not worried about the organizational issues. I would think plot or storyline would go first, but I would be okay with it being after gameplay. Just definitely

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IMO "Gameplay" must be first, as it allows readers to decide whether the game is good and whether it's to the reader's taste. The succeeding sections form a sequence, and the storyline should not break this. I suspect a lot of gamers don't reader it, as they're to busy killing things.

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really doesn't need to be any larger than 256px horizontal dimension. It might be better to find an image without the "game of the year" branding covering up a good chunk of it. The description page should be cleaned up (you've got unnecessary rationales) and the rationales made more

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Okay, the first one could be okay, but the second one is speculation, and I don't see anything in the source that really backs the statement up. Yes, they were doing a lot of things, but I don't think an encyclopedia article should speculate on whether it was too many things.

2172:"Gameplay: going over the significant parts of how the game works. Remember not to include player's guide or walkthrough material. The gameplay section should come before the plot section, with the exception of when it would help to simplify the discussion of either section." 1472:"too many things" paraphrases "Blizzard itself was in a kind of turmoil of its own at the time, with many long-time employees leaving to form spin-offs, while dozens of new employees came in to work on StarCraft, Diablo II, Battle.net, and the company's many other projects" 677:

was impressed that Blizzard managed to release such a large upgrade in only 12 months. "History" will have the history of releases in the series. The point of this is that its non-linear and the final version, for Battle.net, omits some features of earlier versions.

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The 90% for MG is an aggregate. As a result of the recent distraction I've forgotten what the other one, it'll come back to me - I should still be asleep and will be back asleep in a few minutes, but something awoke me briefy - no, I don't think I'm psychic :-)

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I would strongly advise that the storyline section should be much, much higher up in the article, either as the very first section or immediately after gameplay. It just doesn't make sense to be the very last section, especially when you've already described

212:"However in the late game"→What does this mean to non-gamers? Parts of the article need to be recast so they are more evident to those who haven't played RTS or other games. People shouldn't have to click away from a page to get the bare minimum gist of terms. 1263:

information about WC1 and WC3 would be appropriate, but going into detail about sales figures, critical reception, awards, etc. is just too much. All that information is redundant with what is already in the other articles. It also looks like there is some

2169:"Here are a few ideas for how to organize articles. These do not necessarily have to correspond to the actual section headers and divisions, and they are no more than suggestions. Do not try to conform to them if they are not helping to improve the article." 1023:

This game came out in 1995, but there's not a single review (that I can see) from that time aside from the standard IGN, GameSpot, et al ones. Aside from the reviews, that's about it for contemporary sources, and it shows in the lack of development info.

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The template requires code which it then (sometimes) expand into text. I'm not interested in learning these codes. In fact I suspect someone developed the version because he/she found it interesting rather than useful, and it's just grown since then.

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I've spotted some duplication in section "Economy and war" - "Humans and Orcs have sets of buildings with similar functions ..." and "Most of the game's units and buildings on the two sides are counterparts to each other". How to you like the result?

2208:(what you call its "history"): its development and reception. Discussion of the history should necessarily include reception to the plot (I would be very surprised if it doesn't!), which you've now preempted by placing the plot below said "history". 225:

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You're OK with gameplay preceding Storyline. Would you want it to precede "Reception" or "Publication"? IMO both of these should be as close to gameplay as possible, to explain these sections. But in that case the only place for Storyline is last.

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I did mean the custom reviews, by the way, when I said "last four reviewers". Adrenaline Vault and Gamezilla can stay if you all think they're necessary. It just seems like there are more notable critics that should also be included. For example,

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has only sources used in the article long before the GA review. I also found and used a few other reviews long before the GA review, some contemporary, and a multi-page web source that I've just found and used in the "Publication" section.

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quite wrongly said, "Subterranean give races like the Psilons and Silicoids an incredible advantage, particularly when played by humans; they're generally banished from multiplayer games" - and gamers will immediately recognise the error.

2126:" If you truly feel its better then perhaps bringing in a few folks from multiple Wikiprojects to come to consensus would be wise. Though the reality for an article becoming a GA is that its considered well written and laid out for the 3370:{{cite web|url=http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/101/101379p1.html|title=IGN: PC Retroview: WarCraft II|date=January 31, 2002|work=IGN.com|publisher=IGN Entertainment, Inc|accessdate=30 November 2009|last=Bates|first=Jason}}</ref: --> 596:

Re "We're not a game guide, which is why I do not understand your comment, ""Gameplay" must be first, as it allows readers to decide whether the game is good and whether it's to the reader's taste". This isn't an article for

601:, it's an article for a general audience that should be succinct and understandable", I think non-gamers in a general audience need an mental picture of what of thing the game is, and whether it's good and to their taste. -- 1109: 1075: 1375:

That seems a lot more logical to me. Notice also that the WC3 article doesn't have a predecessors section at all. I would recommend at least trimming the predecessor and successor down significantly. On a related note,

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a reader will look for things to be laid out in a certain manner. Don't we want to lay out the article for the sake of the reader? Policy aside I don't understand the rationale you mentioned for putting it at the bottom.

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OK, I have been watching this for some time. There have been five reviewers and still no conclusion. I am going to fail this nomination now, I see that the fail box has already been ticked. It can be taken to

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I'm not going to discuss every single issue listed about the entire article, as I don't have the time right now, but I will say that I agree that the predecessor and successor section is far too detailed. Some

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would eventually be bought out by Sierra, who in turn would be bought by Havas Interactive, which later was acquired by Vivendi Universal." I've work the quote in to section "Sequels", what do you think? --

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sites construct stories from the campaigns, but these are very detailed. But my main point is still that the article would have no point without that gameplay, but would be informative without the story.

1165:. At present the real info is in the examples, as the notes are scrappy. If you think that would be useful, I could copy it in a sub-page of the WikiProject, with proper notes. The <ref name="...": --> 3013:

The more advanced combat units are produced at the same buildings as the basic units but also need the assistance of other buildings, or must be produced at buildings that have prerequisite buildings.

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Parts of the article need to be recast so they are more evident to those who haven't played RTS or other games. People shouldn't have to click away from a page to get the bare minimum gist of terms.

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I strongly disagree. Storyline is an important part of the game, and I think it should be more prominent. If you disagree, that's your prerogative, but I have nothing else to add at this point.

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Is a paraphrase of " Blizzard itself was in a kind of turmoil of its own at the time, with many long-time employees leaving to form spin-offs, while dozens of new employees came in to work on

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IMO your last comment is a selective quotation that omits the important phrases "Blizzard itself was in a kind of turmoil of its own at the time" and "the company's many other projects". --

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As for interesting/not interesting, it looks useful to me in the way that templates are. And you don't have to learn the usage of the template if someone else is interested in learning. --

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alphabetize the last four, as was requested by Tezero (unless "The Adrenaline" should be ABCed under T and not A). Removed IGN, because it had no score (it is still used in the prose). --

564:, which I'll add and will be brief; and as the origin of Blizzard's idiosyncratic approach, which was very successful and also played its part in the RTS boom of the next few years. -- 3315:

Hi, Harrias. I had a quickly look before getting down to business and, whatever happens the result, you have a different approach and that will be thought-provoking. Now for business.

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I keep some flexibility so that I adjust on the page to show the smallest size that is easy seen, to avoid layout problems in different screen sizes, user-defined resolutions, etc. --

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I have to be a bit direct here. I can't help but feel that you're fighting this as something you feel runs better, rather than using a given standard. I see what you mean, given

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I suspect there's a conflict between RTS players and those who haven't played RTS - the players will be bored by explanations. Which do you think are the most important terms? --

2872:, don't you think? It's not yelling, but it could quickly discourage a newcomer by feeling like "They've Caused Trouble". It seems that the user was clearly trying to help. -- 2152: 2075: 1828: 1804: 1632:

We seem to have 2 discussions now about Storyline, here and "the gameplay is the base on which "Reception", etc. are built" below. I suggest we decide which of these to use. --

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The counterpart for the Orcs, "The History of Orcish Ascension", starts in more rational style (or bloodthirsty) but then goes mystical when the "magick" becomes important.

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I asked for a second review because I would be unwilling to pass the article as it is structured, and Philcha seems unwilling to make changes to ameliorate that concern.

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I got the template to show all the ones that you had in there (I was very careful to use all the sources from the table you constructed, too). Were there any others?

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I can see how to add some development in "Publication", by split "Publication" in sub-sections "Development" and "History". I expect "Development" may be short, as

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The article is about a game, not about literature. The literature quality of the story is terrible, as can seen in the first few paragraphs in the "hidden" box. --

2400:. The physical basis is that even the best screens have much lower dot pitch than printers, so screens look grainy. As a result, "users want to scan, not read". -- 1726: 1547: 1437:

Re The "second one is speculation", it's cited, so it's not any old speculation. I've attributed it, to make it clear that the speculation is his and not ours. --

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As I say, in my opinion, there are a number of little issues with this article that are more suitable to be fixed at a peer review than a good article review.

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in the previous section, which should indicate the article is winding down, as the primary subject has been completely covered. Look at the organization of the

2245: 149:? Why does the gameplay begin with basics, then jump to game modes before elaborating on gameplay? The entire article really needs to be reorganized and recast. 1852:, but underneath both work in the same way - first give the information that is not provided elsewhere, then give information based on the first stage, etc. -- 1053:

and the range of contemporary sources looks similar except for previews and announcements - and Blizzard don't take these seriously, looking at the delays on

1272:"They wanted to show a nobler side of the Orcs and a darker one of the Humans, in a game in which the story and humor were central rather than background." 1028: 305:

As a result I wonder if we were both refering to the UI img, which is the one I adjust to the small size that's easier seen. Sorry for the confusion. --

1730: 1551: 1401:"They wanted to show a nobler side of the Orcs and a darker one of the Humans" and "Perhaps Blizzard tried to do too much at the same time..." are not 640:

Why is it ("Predecessor") buried at the end of the article, when any relevant information should be with development and establishing context earlier?

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and the above reviewers will be happy to put some more time in to help you iron out the problems. To summarise my own major issues with the article:

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I have another project that aims to get newcomers working quickly, effectively, safely and hopefully enjoyable. But to do that I cannot waste time. --

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I don't have much, but it seems extremely out of place to have the Storyline section after Reception. Is there a rationale for doing it this way? --

2483: 349: 269: 112: 3022:" epitomises this. It may be factually true, but it is conjecture; if you want/need to use such language, you'll need to put it in a direct quote. 2482:

I don't know what you mean by The Adrenaline Vault and Gamezilla are not "notable". In any VG magazine the reviews vary, and only gamers can tell.

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basic combat units require the assistance of other buildings, or must be produced at buildings that have prerequisite buildings, or both. Many of

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basic combat units require the assistance of other buildings, or must be produced at buildings that have prerequisite buildings, or both. Many of

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Not sure what you were doing with the table Phil; I undid the edits you seemed to be making, as we should use the template if at all possible. I

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The article doesn't have much on development; as I said earlier, some of the content for predecessor could work, but there needs to be more.

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On a side note, I noticed that you used a score of 79 from MobyGames, when I see a score of 90 at the relevant citation's URL. What's up? --

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The article doesn't have much on development; as I said earlier, some of the content for predecessor could work, but there needs to be more.

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The most recent edit was June 21. Prioritizing behind the scenes? I'm not sure, but you're right, either way it's been going on a while.

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series pioneered. Placing "Modes" after "User interface" would jolt the reader, as it would introduce a major change in that pattern. --

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The Storyline, as in addition to being appalling, would distract the reader from the sequence above. Hence it should be at the end. --

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article will be confused by its placement. In this case I would have to agree with other reviewers. Additionally just throwing away

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Re storyline, do we first agree that sections "Modes", " Economy and War" and "User interface" need to be an uninterrupted sequence?

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Re storyline, do we first agree that sections "Modes", " Economy and war" and "User interface" need to be an uninterrupted sequence?

2933: 2205:(not reviewer) I'm of the opinion that it isn't exactly an onerous request to bring the article inline with the many FAs' structure. 69: 3245: 1742:

base on which "Reception", etc. are built. The game manual, a PDF, is the source of the Storyline but is written in the style of

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fueled the RTS boom of the late 1990s" is the most important point in section "Reception" and possibly in the whole article. --

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IMO the next most important is reinforcing the need for RTS to have multiplayer facilities, including various utilities. --

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You ask "is there a "Predecessor" subsection?" and in the next comment you query its position. Am I missing something? --

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I do not feel the article is well-written, in places the article lacks clarity, and a lot of the language is 'clunky' (

2418: 2175:"Plot: if the plot is not too complex, it can be lumped in with the gameplay; otherwise, put it in its own section." 3387: 2814:

in WP than any of other editors discussing this done in a hour or 2. I suggest you see, read, think, Talk and then

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I was waiting for you to address all my comments/implement any changes before I took another look at the article.

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MacGame and Absolute PlayStation, other reviewers referenced in the Reception section, may not be notable either.

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The short paragraphs are intentional, idea per one para. This is based on Web usability maxims since 1997 - see

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above - "The Storyline ... would distract the reader from the sequence above. Hence it should be at the end". --

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above - "The Storyline ... would distract the reader from the sequence above. Hence it should be at the end". --

651:, were the most influential games of the time and launched the late 1990s RTS boom. "Predecessor" describes how 542:

I'm afraid "lots of irrelevant details and bad structuring that does not proceed logically" tells me nothing. --

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We're at four reviews now in a couple months with little going on recently. Is this going to be passed/failed?

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The combination of singular then plural puzzled me, and I guessed that you mean a comment for each image used:

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instead of beating around the bush and giving us a really bad explanation before actually cutting to the chase.

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Next is general gameplay, of the type that could be noted by reviews of the time. --01:20, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

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only does so far and leaves at least some readers wanting more. What happens if the connection is broken? ---

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The "official" Blizzard story is in the backstory of the next game, e.g. Warcraft contains the backstory of

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also doesn't state that Wikiproject's standards cannot add upon the manual of style, unless I missed it. --

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It might be better to find an image without the "game of the year" branding covering up a good chunk of it.

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for now that we do, "Storyline" must be either before or after all that sequence - but which, and why? At

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I don't see anything in the source that says Blizzard tried to do too much. It's a good source for saying

2904: 1725:

for now that we do, "Storyline" must be either before or after all that sequence - but which, and why? At

2981:

were IMO not constructive, and I found them so confused that my first act was to try to restructure them.

1032: 291:

It's in a predefined template. There are no layout issues with a fixed resolution since that's standard.

3443: 3337:, and there's at last 1 ref at the end of each paragraph and and usually refs inside each paragraph. -- 142: 355:

The rationale seems to cover the items required, in fact item "Purpose of use" looks verbose to me. --

2185: 3409:

If this results in a fail, I'll try Peer Review - they're quick and I should use them more often. --

2651:

Isn't MG an aggregater though...? That would make the 90% a bit more appropriate than the 79, no? --

453:

There needs to be a rationale for every page a non-free images appears on, not including redirects.

247:

I'm copy your comments for discussion, and split some of your comments that cover separate items: --

2810:

destroyed work that I had done, and that was already being discussed by other editors. You've done

2368:

should be alphabetized. Moreover, I'm not sure that The Adrenaline Vault and Gamezilla are notable.

1197:

The reviewer seems to taken no part in this review since 9 May - is there a difficulty, e.g. RL? --

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The Mac commmunity was keen to port games to the Mac. Section "Publication" gives 2 good cites. --

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The Gameplay section has a few short paragraphs, which should probably be merged into larger ones.

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from The Adrenaline Vault notes 3-4 points that gamers will recognise immediately. For contrast,

765:

Why does the gameplay begin with basics, then jump to game modes before elaborating on gameplay?

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I've reinstated the table because I expect to see 8 reviews, and the template shows only 6. --

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the article at this time. It seems that at this time the best place to take this would be to

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Here is a list of featured articles. All of them do gameplay, plot, and then everything else:

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In section "Reception" there are reasons for the order, but perhaps I did't make them clear.

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One of your list gave me a better heading for a section of the article, thanks for that too.

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To start a new section outside the GA review. Replace with a real section when needed. --

1455:

they were doing, but the "too much" part, where does that come from? That's my concern.

3390:. While I've seen no comment from Blizzard, this procedure avoids spoilers. 1 or 2 good 233: 3184: 2923: 2869: 2837: 2700: 2656: 2627: 2597: 2217: 2124:

Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style is not required for good articles.

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if you disagree, or the points raised can be addressed and the article renominated at

2276: 1929:

Here's an extract from section "A Brief History of the Fall of Azeroth" in the manual.

1803:

I'm pretty sure it's the standard way of doing things for video game articles. Check

973: 674: 3435: 3431: 3391: 3333:

2a I'm surprised that you think some parts don't have refs, as I've just skimmed the

3259: 513:, it's an article for a general audience that should be succinct and understandable. 175: 2155:- the first item from "lead" of the guideline, the rest from section "For games": -- 1746:

on a bad day, which will deter almost of the minority who look at the Storyline. --

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and I agree on alphabetising the citations, which appearing the template can't do.

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Then the balance issues, which could only be picked by retrospective reviewers. --

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RTS games, including the character and story elements for which they're famous. --

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Then various smaller points. I've combined these, see if you like the effect. --

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How about "When advanced units appear, the Orcs have a strong advantage ..."? --

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It seems to be Blizzard's preference, and provides information to the reader. --

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is a long way from GA and it's unlikely to be stable. So it would be risky for

2665:

I've shown the table again as it's there to be compared with the VG template:

1673: 342:

The description page should be cleaned up (you've got unnecessary rationales)

3018:

Parts of the article are un-encyclopedic, as highlighted above, the phrase "

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The Reception section is disorganized and consists of many short paragraphs.

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defines a subset of MOS. Any project MOS addition would also be excluded. --

2846:

And may not understand or use watchlist. OK, I'd write to his/hers Talk. --

1110:

Knowledge:WikiProject Video games/Reference library/Online print archive#W

1076:

Knowledge:WikiProject Video games/Reference library/Online print archive#W

1035:(only a possible film), Google, Google Scholar (found only material about 2781: 491:

This article is structure in a rather funky way that is, in a word, bad.

1827:

is very specific about what parts of MOS it applies, and hence excludes

1223:

I thought I'd responded to all your comments - have I've missed some? --

2777: 2523:

What's wrong with Absolute PlayStation? The cites are from GameSpot. --

2375:

seem like the section is just a "miscellaneous related games" section.

2355:

I'm afraid that this doesn't meet the GA criteria yet, and here's why:

2760:, which is probably the most notable game critic ever here on WP, has 272:

really doesn't need to be any larger than 256px horizontal dimension.

2346:- - - - GA review above this line; anything else below - - - - - - - 692:

First version of development done, refs to come. No sub-headings. --

578:

Re "No such article has to "rely" on another to be comprehensible",

2153:

Knowledge:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines#Organization

2076:

Knowledge:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines#Organization

1829:

Knowledge:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines#Organization

1784: 990:

Removed phrase that Blizzard's timing was influenced by that of

769:

power" to tell the reader that there other patterns - which the

2907:

nor here. I don't see any prospect of progress with him/her. --

2709:

It might be helpful if Tezero says which reviews are needed. --

2757: 2723:

I'd be dependent on the termplae(s), but am fine with HTML. --

912:"However in the late game"→What does this mean to non-gamers? 789:

The entire article really needs to be reorganized and recast.

302:

I checked a few history versions and they all looked the same.

3438:. The Peerr review suggestion is also a good suggestion. –– 2417:"The rivalry between Blizzard's series and Westwood Studios' 2264:- - - - - reflist below; rest of GA review above - - - - - 2078:

is unwise, as it has become the standard for game articles.

1268:

in that section, with these two sentences as quick examples:

838:

really bad explanation before actually cutting to the chase.

1292:"Perhaps Blizzard tried to do too much at the same time..." 621:

Why is there a "Predecessor" subsection? Why is it so long?

560:

was received has 2 purposes: to motivate the development of

2556:

I need to sleep - I'm in UK. I'll resume in the morning. --

1237:

It's kinda hard to tell. :P I'll take a look this weekend.

857:

Cut out all the "the"'s that serve no purpose throughout. "

710:

Why is there so much on sequels that should be in the main

196:

Cut out all the "the"'s that serve no purpose throughout. "

2329:"Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition Review for PC - GameSpot" 232:

I am putting the article on hold for crit. 1, 3, and 6 of

2277:"IGN Presents the History of Warcraft – The Lost Chapter" 1727:

Talk:Harry_Potter_and_the_Philosopher's_Stone#GA_Review_2

1548:

Talk:Harry_Potter_and_the_Philosopher's_Stone#GA_Review_2

431:

I'm uncertain whether a separate rationale is needed for

369:

Do you have other concerns about the description page? --

1303:, Battle.net, and the company's many other projects." -- 2978: 2865: 2811: 2807: 655:

established the modern RTS and set the pattern for the

81: 50: 3020:

Perhaps Blizzard tried to do too much at the same time

1043:) and Google News (found nothing). Google Books found 841:

Based closely on 2 cites by Geryk and 1 by Cobbet. --

2832:

He probably doesn't know about the thread. /chide --

895:

buildings can upgrade combat units ..." - thanks. --

862:

for producing ground, naval, and air units. All but

391:

File:Warcraftii-beyond-the-dark-portal-cover-art.jpg

201:

for producing ground, naval, and air units. All but

122:

File:Warcraftii-beyond-the-dark-portal-cover-art.jpg

1707:Will look at predecessors and successors later. -- 2364:The last four reviewers in the reviews table for 2096:Wikiprojects can add to the manual of style, but 880:Builders can also construct Farms ...", "All but 834:There's lots of awkward or unnecessary phrasing. 1735:Talk:Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets/GA1 1556:Talk:Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets/GA1 2295: 2293: 811:I hope that we're already discuss this too. -- 2246:Knowledge:WikiProject Video games/Peer review 1563:base on which "Reception", etc. are built. -- 8: 3244:(images are tagged and non-free images have 3351:2c Given the refs, where you think there's 524:Re convention for structuring video games, 792:I hope that we're already discuss this. -- 2903:WoogieNoogiehas not discussed at his/her 2692:which are custom—need to be alphabetized. 2212:disorder is what is nonsensical to me. -- 2008:, of course, but gives the impression. -- 1174:retrofit it to perhaps 12-15 articles. -- 1731:Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone 1552:Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone 350:File:Warcraft-2-Tides-Of-Darkness-Pc.jpg 270:File:Warcraft-2-Tides-Of-Darkness-Pc.jpg 113:File:Warcraft-2-Tides-Of-Darkness-Pc.jpg 2267: 2100:disallows them for use in GA reviews - 1846:Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets 1739:Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets 1560:Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets 1946:A Brief History of the Fall of Azeroth 1142:User:Philcha/Sandbox/Reference methods 414:could use with better rationale text. 2393:Hi, Tezero, thanks for the comments. 2181:be no interruption in that sequence. 870:buildings can upgrade combat units." 130:could use with better rationale text. 7: 1797:The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 1140:I have a little research project at 743:after everything else in the article 209:buildings can upgrade combat units." 147:after everything else in the article 1144:, comparing <ref name="...": --> 1045:a review in "InfoWorld" 25 Nov 1996 18:Talk:Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 3239:, where possible and appropriate. 2782:gave a synopsis/review and a score 2492:"PC Retroview: Master of Orion II" 2056: 1912: 1647: 1130:. I'll see if I've any others and 884:basic combat units ..." and "Many 643:"Tides of Darkness" describes why 31: 2300:Bates, Jason (January 31, 2002). 1582:the last section in the article. 1169:also includes a clever technique 174:Corrected referenced complaint -- 3369:<ref name="IGNWC2Review": --> 3288: 3265: 3251: 3220: 3196: 3193:Fair representation without bias 3169: 3159: 3134: 3120: 3106: 3075: 3061: 2776:. Some debate the usefulness of 2302:"IGN: PC Retroview: WarCraft II" 2275:Fahs, Travis (August 18, 2009). 2104:does not add, it substracts. -- 1984:The History of Orcish Ascension 1134:at the WikiProject's Talk page. 1666:about UI features included in 433:Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 1: 1039:, with passing mentioning of 3289: 3266: 3252: 3221: 3197: 3170: 3160: 3135: 3121: 3107: 3076: 3062: 2570:Thanks for your patience. -- 2419:Command & Conquer series 3388:Warcraft: Orcs & Humans 145:page? Why is the storyline 141:that should be in the main 3482: 2770:a retrospective review of 2398:User:Philcha#Writing_style 1405:, they have a citation. -- 494:Can you please explain. -- 3467:23:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 3448:00:41, 11 July 2010 (UTC) 2962:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 2917:10:47, 25 June 2010 (UTC) 2897:10:36, 25 June 2010 (UTC) 2882:22:43, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2856:05:54, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2842:04:24, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2828:04:03, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2794:03:02, 21 June 2010 (UTC) 2733:17:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2719:17:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2705:15:21, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2685:08:26, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2661:04:24, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2647:04:16, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2632:01:36, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2616:20:38, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2602:08:21, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2580:21:26, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2566:01:20, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2548:21:26, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2533:20:38, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2519:20:38, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2505:20:38, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2476:01:20, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2462:01:20, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2445:01:20, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2431:01:20, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2410:01:20, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2385:18:52, 17 June 2010 (UTC) 2259:21:39, 19 June 2010 (UTC) 2222:08:48, 18 June 2010 (UTC) 2165:13:01, 12 June 2010 (UTC) 2147:23:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 2114:23:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 2092:22:35, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 2069:22:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 2050:22:13, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 2036:Third reviewer's comments 2018:22:56, 13 June 2010 (UTC) 1925:11:05, 12 June 2010 (UTC) 1901:08:34, 12 June 2010 (UTC) 1876:22:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 1862:22:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 1841:23:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 1820:05:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 1756:18:26, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1717:07:38, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1686:23:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1660:19:32, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 1642:23:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1628:19:36, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1610:18:26, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1595:16:37, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1573:07:38, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1519:20:54, 12 June 2010 (UTC) 1505:16:44, 12 June 2010 (UTC) 1468:05:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC) 1447:23:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1433:16:37, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1415:07:38, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 1313:10:58, 12 June 2010 (UTC) 1286:10:58, 12 June 2010 (UTC) 1240:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 1215:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 970:I'll check the chronology 558:Warcraft: Orcs and Humans 516:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 456:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 294:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 239:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 98:Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 3419:03:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC) 3405:03:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC) 3382:03:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC) 3365:03:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC) 3347:03:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC) 3329:03:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC) 3305:14:03, 6 July 2010 (UTC) 2994:21:23, 4 July 2010 (UTC) 2966:19:47, 4 July 2010 (UTC) 2955:02:55, 4 July 2010 (UTC) 2940:23:14, 3 July 2010 (UTC) 2308:. IGN Entertainment, Inc 2132:. Given the standard of 2035: 1394:22:54, 9 June 2010 (UTC) 1381:aspects of the review. 1244:21:13, 29 May 2010 (UTC) 1233:19:53, 29 May 2010 (UTC) 1219:13:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC) 1207:06:13, 28 May 2010 (UTC) 1184:01:17, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 1089:14:03, 11 May 2010 (UTC) 1004:16:04, 16 May 2010 (UTC) 939:16:31, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 702:16:31, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 611:00:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 592:00:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 574:00:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 552:00:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 538:00:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 474:00:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 439:. What's your advice? -- 412:File:WC2_Tides_UI_01.png 315:00:08, 10 May 2010 (UTC) 260:- - - - - - - - - - - - 184:03:24, 15 May 2010 (UTC) 128:File:WC2_Tides_UI_01.png 3051:reasonably well written 1122:19:33, 9 May 2010 (UTC) 1071:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 986:15:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC) 960:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 925:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 905:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 851:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 821:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 802:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 783:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 759:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 735:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 688:02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC) 669:23:50, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 634:23:50, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 520:17:00, 9 May 2010 (UTC) 504:21:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 460:17:00, 9 May 2010 (UTC) 449:21:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 427:21:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 405:21:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 379:21:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 365:21:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 336:21:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 298:17:00, 9 May 2010 (UTC) 285:21:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 257:18:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 243:17:32, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 102:17:32, 7 May 2010 (UTC) 3258:(appropriate use with 1848:looks the opposite of 1807:for more information. 3233:It is illustrated by 3185:neutral point of view 3149:broad in its coverage 2249:things are kosher. -- 2134:WP:VG/GL#Organization 741:Why is the storyline 435:, which redirects to 2151:I mostly agree with 24:Talk:Warcraft II/GA1 3246:fair use rationales 3217:No edit wars, etc. 3090:factually accurate 2935:Operation Big Bear 1672:but excluded from 1366:5.1 Other versions 1276:good and evil." -- 389:Really don't need 120:Really don't need 3260:suitable captions 2818:for responses. -- 2764:Tides of Darkness 2366:Tides of Darkness 2202: 2188:comment added by 719:Warcraft (series) 712:Warcraft (series) 143:WarCraft (series) 22:(Redirected from 3473: 3299: 3292: 3291: 3269: 3268: 3255: 3254: 3224: 3223: 3200: 3199: 3173: 3172: 3163: 3162: 3138: 3137: 3124: 3123: 3115:reliable sources 3110: 3109: 3079: 3078: 3065: 3064: 2979:initial comments 2963: 2936: 2930: 2341: 2340: 2338: 2336: 2324: 2318: 2317: 2315: 2313: 2297: 2288: 2287: 2285: 2284: 2272: 2201: 2182: 1775:Final Fantasy VI 1744:The Silmarillion 1241: 1216: 1164: 1158: 1154: 1148: 1133: 971: 517: 487:Layout and Style 457: 295: 240: 136:Layout and Style 99: 86: 77: 58: 27: 3481: 3480: 3476: 3475: 3474: 3472: 3471: 3470: 3455: 3427: 3297: 3182:It follows the 3156:(major aspects) 3004: 2961: 2938: 2934: 2924: 2868:seems a bit of 2812:less work total 2352: 2350:Fourth reviewer 2344: 2334: 2332: 2326: 2325: 2321: 2311: 2309: 2299: 2298: 2291: 2282: 2280: 2274: 2273: 2269: 2183: 2038: 1990: 1989: 1985: 1952: 1951: 1947: 1899: 1818: 1626: 1593: 1503: 1466: 1431: 1392: 1341:1.2 Multiplayer 1256: 1239: 1214: 1162: 1156: 1152: 1146: 1131: 969: 515: 455: 293: 238: 97: 67: 44: 38: 36: 29: 28: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3479: 3477: 3454: 3451: 3426: 3423: 3422: 3421: 3407: 3384: 3367: 3349: 3331: 3316: 3312: 3311: 3310: 3309: 3308: 3307: 3276: 3275: 3274: 3273: 3272: 3231: 3230: 3229: 3228: 3227: 3207: 3206: 3205: 3204: 3203: 3180: 3179: 3178: 3177: 3176: 3145: 3144: 3143: 3142: 3141: 3113:(citations to 3086: 3085: 3084: 3083: 3082: 3046: 3045: 3028: 3027: 3023: 3016: 3003: 3002:Fifth reviewer 3000: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2996: 2982: 2969: 2968: 2957: 2932: 2920: 2919: 2900: 2899: 2863: 2862: 2861: 2860: 2859: 2858: 2799: 2797: 2796: 2752: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2747: 2746: 2745: 2744: 2743: 2742: 2741: 2740: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2736: 2735: 2721: 2693: 2688: 2687: 2672: 2621: 2583: 2582: 2568: 2553: 2552: 2551: 2550: 2535: 2521: 2507: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2464: 2450: 2447: 2433: 2412: 2390: 2389: 2388: 2387: 2372: 2369: 2362: 2359: 2351: 2348: 2343: 2342: 2327:Bates, Jason. 2319: 2289: 2266: 2262: 2261: 2240:'s suggest to 2233: 2232: 2231: 2230: 2229: 2228: 2227: 2226: 2225: 2224: 2206: 2178: 2177: 2176: 2173: 2170: 2094: 2057:#StorylineURL1 2037: 2034: 2033: 2032: 2031: 2030: 2029: 2028: 2027: 2026: 2025: 2024: 2023: 2022: 2021: 2020: 1986: 1983: 1982: 1981: 1980: 1979: 1978: 1977: 1976: 1975: 1974: 1973: 1972: 1971: 1970: 1969: 1968: 1948: 1945: 1944: 1943: 1942: 1941: 1940: 1939: 1938: 1937: 1936: 1935: 1934: 1933: 1932: 1931: 1930: 1927: 1913:#StorylineURL1 1904: 1903: 1895: 1881: 1880: 1879: 1878: 1864: 1843: 1814: 1800: 1799: 1794: 1787: 1782: 1777: 1772: 1770:Chrono Trigger 1766: 1765: 1759: 1758: 1719: 1701: 1699: 1698: 1697: 1696: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1664: 1663: 1662: 1648:#StorylineURL1 1646:OK, we'll use 1622: 1589: 1536: 1534: 1533: 1532: 1531: 1530: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1524: 1523: 1522: 1521: 1499: 1480: 1479: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1475: 1474: 1473: 1470: 1462: 1427: 1388: 1373: 1372: 1369: 1368: 1367: 1361: 1358: 1355: 1354: 1353: 1350: 1344: 1343: 1342: 1339: 1318: 1317: 1316: 1315: 1290: 1289: 1288: 1255: 1254:Second opinion 1252: 1251: 1250: 1249: 1248: 1247: 1246: 1195: 1194: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1189: 1188: 1187: 1186: 1138: 1135: 1128:JimmyBlackwing 1124: 1114:JimmyBlackwing 1098: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1094: 1093: 1092: 1091: 1073: 1033:rottentomatoes 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 1009: 1008: 1007: 1006: 988: 964: 963: 962: 945: 944: 943: 942: 941: 910: 909: 908: 855: 854: 853: 827: 826: 825: 824: 823: 806: 805: 804: 787: 786: 785: 763: 762: 761: 739: 738: 737: 725:to rely it. -- 708: 707: 706: 705: 704: 671: 638: 637: 636: 619: 618: 617: 616: 615: 614: 613: 594: 576: 554: 540: 484: 483: 482: 481: 480: 479: 478: 477: 476: 429: 409: 408: 407: 387: 386: 385: 384: 383: 382: 381: 367: 340: 339: 338: 321: 320: 319: 318: 317: 303: 288: 287: 259: 230: 229: 228: 227: 218: 217: 216: 213: 210: 191: 190: 189: 188: 187: 186: 167: 166: 165: 164: 155: 154: 153: 150: 133: 132: 131: 125: 117: 90: 87: 35: 32: 30: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3478: 3469: 3468: 3464: 3460: 3453:Dummy section 3452: 3450: 3449: 3445: 3441: 3437: 3433: 3424: 3420: 3416: 3412: 3408: 3406: 3402: 3398: 3393: 3389: 3385: 3383: 3379: 3375: 3368: 3366: 3362: 3358: 3354: 3350: 3348: 3344: 3340: 3336: 3332: 3330: 3326: 3322: 3317: 3314: 3313: 3306: 3303: 3301: 3300: 3294: 3293: 3286: 3283: 3282: 3280: 3277: 3271: 3270: 3263: 3261: 3249: 3247: 3241: 3240: 3238: 3237: 3232: 3226: 3225: 3218: 3215: 3214: 3212: 3208: 3202: 3201: 3194: 3191: 3190: 3188: 3186: 3181: 3175: 3174: 3167: 3157: 3153: 3152: 3150: 3146: 3140: 3139: 3132: 3130: 3118: 3116: 3104: 3100: 3099: 3097: 3096: 3091: 3087: 3081: 3080: 3073: 3071: 3059: 3055: 3054: 3052: 3048: 3047: 3044:for criteria) 3043: 3039: 3037: 3033: 3032: 3031: 3024: 3021: 3017: 3015:for example). 3014: 3010: 3009: 3008: 3001: 2995: 2991: 2987: 2983: 2980: 2976: 2973: 2972: 2971: 2970: 2967: 2964: 2958: 2956: 2952: 2948: 2944: 2943: 2942: 2941: 2937: 2931: 2929: 2928: 2918: 2914: 2910: 2906: 2902: 2901: 2898: 2894: 2890: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2879: 2875: 2871: 2867: 2857: 2853: 2849: 2845: 2844: 2843: 2839: 2835: 2831: 2830: 2829: 2825: 2821: 2817: 2813: 2809: 2805: 2802: 2801: 2800: 2795: 2791: 2787: 2783: 2779: 2775: 2773: 2767: 2765: 2759: 2754: 2753: 2734: 2730: 2726: 2722: 2720: 2716: 2712: 2708: 2707: 2706: 2702: 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1587: 1586: 1581: 1576: 1575: 1574: 1570: 1566: 1561: 1557: 1553: 1549: 1545: 1541: 1540: 1539: 1538: 1537: 1520: 1516: 1512: 1508: 1507: 1506: 1502: 1497: 1496: 1490: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1486: 1485: 1484: 1483: 1482: 1481: 1471: 1469: 1465: 1460: 1459: 1454: 1450: 1449: 1448: 1444: 1440: 1436: 1435: 1434: 1430: 1425: 1424: 1418: 1417: 1416: 1412: 1408: 1404: 1400: 1399: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1395: 1391: 1386: 1385: 1379: 1370: 1365: 1364: 1362: 1359: 1356: 1351: 1348: 1347: 1345: 1340: 1337: 1336: 1334: 1333: 1332: 1330: 1329: 1324: 1314: 1310: 1306: 1302: 1298: 1294: 1293: 1291: 1287: 1283: 1279: 1274: 1273: 1271: 1270: 1269: 1267: 1262: 1253: 1245: 1242: 1236: 1235: 1234: 1230: 1226: 1222: 1221: 1220: 1217: 1211: 1210: 1209: 1208: 1204: 1200: 1185: 1181: 1177: 1172: 1168: 1161: 1151: 1143: 1139: 1136: 1129: 1125: 1123: 1119: 1115: 1112:should help. 1111: 1108: 1107: 1106: 1105: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1090: 1086: 1082: 1077: 1074: 1072: 1068: 1064: 1060: 1056: 1052: 1051: 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Retrieved 2322: 2310:. Retrieved 2305: 2281:. 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IGN 2279:. IGN 2006:WP:OR 1403:WP:OR 1357:Sound 1266:WP:OR 976:-- -- 876:The b 830:Prose 226:info. 158:Prose 83:Watch 16:< 3463:talk 3444:talk 3415:talk 3401:talk 3378:talk 3361:talk 3355:. -- 3343:talk 3325:talk 3092:and 3042:here 2990:talk 2951:talk 2913:talk 2893:talk 2878:talk 2866:This 2852:talk 2838:talk 2834:Izno 2824:talk 2816:wait 2790:talk 2768:and 2729:talk 2715:talk 2701:talk 2697:Izno 2681:talk 2657:talk 2653:Izno 2643:talk 2628:talk 2624:Izno 2612:talk 2598:talk 2594:Izno 2576:talk 2562:talk 2544:talk 2529:talk 2515:talk 2501:talk 2472:talk 2458:talk 2441:talk 2427:talk 2406:talk 2381:talk 2337:2010 2314:2009 2255:talk 2218:talk 2214:Izno 2210:That 2194:talk 2161:talk 2143:talk 2110:talk 2088:talk 2065:talk 2055:See 2046:talk 2014:talk 1921:talk 1911:See 1872:talk 1858:talk 1837:talk 1831:. -- 1805:here 1785:Myst 1752:talk 1713:talk 1682:talk 1676:. -- 1656:talk 1650:. -- 1638:talk 1606:talk 1569:talk 1515:talk 1453:what 1443:talk 1411:talk 1309:talk 1282:talk 1229:talk 1203:talk 1180:talk 1155:and 1118:talk 1085:talk 1067:talk 1061:. -- 1057:and 1000:talk 994:. -- 982:talk 974:Fahs 956:talk 935:talk 921:talk 901:talk 882:the 847:talk 817:talk 798:talk 779:talk 755:talk 731:talk 698:talk 684:talk 675:Fahs 665:talk 630:talk 607:talk 588:talk 570:talk 556:How 548:talk 534:talk 500:talk 470:talk 445:talk 423:talk 401:talk 375:talk 361:talk 332:talk 311:talk 281:talk 253:talk 180:talk 70:edit 47:edit 3070:MoS 2977:'s 2758:IGN 2590:did 2490:in 1737:of 1729:of 1580:not 1558:of 1550:of 1150:sfn 1059:WC3 1041:WC2 890:the 886:of 868:the 864:the 859:The 723:WC2 645:WC2 562:WC2 348:Re 207:the 203:the 198:The 3465:) 3446:) 3417:) 3403:) 3395:-- 3380:) 3363:) 3345:) 3327:) 3287:: 3281:: 3264:: 3256:b 3250:: 3242:a 3219:: 3213:. 3195:: 3189:. 3168:: 3164:b 3158:: 3154:a 3151:. 3133:: 3129:OR 3125:c 3119:: 3111:b 3105:: 3101:a 3098:. 3074:: 3066:b 3060:: 3056:a 3053:. 3036:GA 2992:) 2953:) 2915:) 2895:) 2880:) 2854:) 2840:) 2826:) 2806:, 2792:) 2784:. 2762:a 2731:) 2717:) 2703:) 2683:) 2675:-- 2659:) 2645:) 2637:-- 2630:) 2614:) 2600:) 2578:) 2564:) 2546:) 2538:-- 2531:) 2517:) 2503:) 2495:-- 2474:) 2460:) 2443:) 2429:) 2408:) 2383:) 2304:. 2292:^ 2257:) 2220:) 2200:) 2196:• 2163:) 2145:) 2137:-- 2112:) 2090:) 2067:) 2048:) 2016:) 1923:) 1874:) 1860:) 1839:) 1754:) 1715:) 1684:) 1658:) 1640:) 1608:) 1600:-- 1571:) 1517:) 1445:) 1413:) 1311:) 1299:, 1284:) 1231:) 1205:) 1182:) 1163:}} 1157:{{ 1153:}} 1147:{{ 1145:, 1120:) 1087:) 1079:-- 1069:) 1031:, 1002:) 984:) 958:) 937:) 923:) 903:) 849:) 819:) 800:) 781:) 771:WC 757:) 749:-- 745:? 733:) 700:) 686:) 678:-- 667:) 632:) 609:) 590:) 572:) 550:) 536:) 502:) 472:) 447:) 425:) 403:) 377:) 363:) 352:: 334:) 313:) 283:) 255:) 236:. 182:) 72:| 53:| 49:| 3461:( 3442:( 3413:( 3399:( 3376:( 3359:( 3341:( 3323:( 3262:) 3248:) 3131:) 3127:( 3117:) 3072:) 3068:( 2988:( 2949:( 2911:( 2891:( 2876:( 2850:( 2836:( 2822:( 2788:( 2727:( 2713:( 2699:( 2679:( 2655:( 2641:( 2626:( 2610:( 2596:( 2574:( 2560:( 2542:( 2527:( 2513:( 2499:( 2470:( 2456:( 2439:( 2425:( 2404:( 2379:( 2339:. 2316:. 2286:. 2253:( 2216:( 2192:( 2159:( 2141:( 2108:( 2086:( 2063:( 2044:( 2012:( 1919:( 1894:/ 1870:( 1856:( 1835:( 1813:/ 1750:( 1711:( 1680:( 1654:( 1636:( 1621:/ 1604:( 1588:/ 1567:( 1513:( 1498:/ 1461:/ 1441:( 1426:/ 1409:( 1387:/ 1307:( 1280:( 1227:( 1201:( 1178:( 1116:( 1083:( 1065:( 998:( 980:( 954:( 933:( 919:( 899:( 845:( 815:( 796:( 777:( 753:( 729:( 696:( 682:( 663:( 628:( 605:( 586:( 568:( 546:( 532:( 498:( 468:( 443:( 421:( 399:( 373:( 359:( 330:( 309:( 279:( 251:( 178:( 79:· 76:) 68:( 60:· 57:) 45:( 26:)

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