2515:. There's plenty of nontrivial treatment of the journal in scholarly and journalistic sources, and those that describe its impact within its field of study typically describe it as influential and important for its role in establishing McCarthy studies as a recognized author-specific area of scholarship within American lit studies.I don't know what point you're trying to make about the DYK hook reference. Not every cited source in a Knowledge article must also therein establish its subject's notability. The primary criteria for selecting DYK hooks are verifiability and quirky tendency to elicit a general reader's curiosity, so I'm not sure why you seem to imply a DYK hook reference would be unusually more likely to justify its subject's notability. The fact is verifiable. The source is reliable. That's all they need to be for their purpose. This strikes me as an irrelevant point that just muddies the waters.In the GA review, you raised the issue of its low journal impact factor (JIF) in passing; I now take that comment to be an implicit concern about
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1349:, the US Copyright Office has specifically noted that dust jackets of hardcover books were not generically protected by the same copyright notice found inside the books themselves. Dust jackets from this time were required to display their own separate copyright notice in order to secure their copyright. This is a very different paradigm than copyright law throughout most of the world and in the United States since 1989, where these formalistic technicalities don't exist. For dust jackets published between 1978–1989, a publisher of a work without a notice had a chance to recover its copyright
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2634:™, the index I'm trying to incorporate, so it's not even like I'm trying to smuggle in some wild unknown unproven party, let alone some untested competitor. This is literally the exact same institution, providing a different metric, a newer metric—one they've introduced to address criticisms and shortcomings of applying their own JIF to the exclusion of any others. Really feels like it would be unwise if we apply this single, admittedly limited measure—to a more exclusive, universal, exacting standard than its own proprietor advises—when we go about estimating significance.
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2618:. Is there policy to this effect? Because if so I haven't seen it cited so far. Maybe some users of a not-especially-active WikiProject deemed it so some time in the past, but I don't yet see why I'd have to accept some unstated consensus uncritically.Besides, I don't see what's so wrong with introducing one additional scientometric index. I understand that there are a variety of different proprietary measures, which makes it all the stranger that we seem to have picked one proprietary winner. I mean, are we sponsored by
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1417:, and Mr. DalĂ's oeuvre of copyrighted works won't enter the public domain until January 1, 2060 (70 years after his death). His prior, separately established copyright interest remains valid even if Random House as a licensee had fumbled their responsibility to attach any copyright notice. None of that applies where the
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is influential, prominently cited, and important enough to meet
Knowledge notability standards" in those exact words, nor do I (nor would I ever) use those exact words as such in article prose. But I'll respond to any specific challenge to the article prose itself. I'm not going to be drawn into this
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The journal became a member of the
Council of Editors of Learned Journals. The position of editor was mostly held by John Wegner of Angelo State University from its first issue until about 2009. During this timespan, several other scholars stepped in to handle the role of editor as needed. The online
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an off-site high-res scan for reference. Note that this jacket contains two notices, "© 1985 Random House, Inc." (bottom of the back flap) and "Photo: 1981 © Mark Morrow" (back cover). Either notice by itself would have sufficed to protect the entire thing, as the law doesn't even require the name of
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s first-edition dust jacket cover is in the public domain. While I understand your hesitancy here based on the relatively recent date of publication, I am confident that it is in the public domain.In US copyright law until 1989, there were a few ways a published work could (often inadvertently) enter
2673:, because it has a high CiteScore/JCI/SNIP/take your pick". Like it or loathe it, but the only thing that authors/science evaluators/grant reviewers/etc look at is the IF. It's not the function of WP to right this wrong (and I personally think it's a wrong), it's our function to reflect real life. --
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each year to update the IF, if we list more stats, that will become almost impossible. The second reason is more fundamental, though. WP is supposed to reflect what happens in the real world. Now I don't know about you, but I've never heard an author say "let's submit our important manuscript to the
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of multiple in-passing mentions and such. Why don't you point me to your most important sources? If those are satisfactory, I'll leave this article alone. That will save us all the effort of an AFD. As for the JCI, there are two reasons, one (less important) practical: It's already difficult enough
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The first print edition of The Cormac McCarthy
Journal appeared in 2001 and new issues were published on a roughly annual basis. The journal became a member of the Council of Editors of Learned Journals; the position of editor was mostly held by John Wegner of Angelo State University from its first
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There are four images used in the article. They are all relevant but I'm doubtful of the rationale for File:Suttree - Cormac McCarthy.jpg, since I would expect this cover design to be copyrighted. I don't think it is covered by fair use except in an article about that specific book (I understad the
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I appreciate your addition! And yes 0.1 does seem awfully low—I mean, it's quite literally the bottom of the barrel for a system rounded to the tenths place except for a flat 0.0. After you added that sentence, I curiously googled the phrase "has a 2022 impact factor of" and there looks to be just
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requires "in-depth" treatment of the journal within at least one discrete source, divorced from any broader treatment of the journal's subject or subject area. But that's not the case. In-depth coverage of a journal within at least one single discrete source is not required, let alone coverage in
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criterion 2. I get that a super-low JIF can be a red flag for journals, particularly for those in STEM fields. But a journal having a low impact factor is also not inherently disqualifying and doesn't make it non-notable. Its JIF doesn't measure, for example, citations to the journal in the many
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Re: "wall of text": Well... Yeah. You want to delete this thing I spent time on. And I don't think your challenge was so "simple", unless I'm meant to uncritically accept your premises and your selective interpretation of site policy, which I don't.Re: "on what source(s)": I recommend you read
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The first print edition of The Cormac McCarthy
Journal appeared in 2001. The Society published new issues of the journal on a roughly annual basis. The journal became a member of the Council of Editors of Learned Journals. The position of editor was mostly held by John Wegner of Angelo State
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named entity is provided—so e.g., even though Mark Morrow didn't write the text on the dust jacket flaps, his notice alone carries all the required legal elements and it would secure Random House's copyright interest all by itself even if they had omitted their own notice (and vice versa).
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Each of those sentences carries a discrete fact attributed to each source and if I combined these sentences the sourcing of each piece of information would get muddled, or would be liable to become more muddled in the future with subsequent edits. I prefer to keep them disentangled.
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to
Commons to make it easier to verify the lack of copyright notice, though note that I had to blur out some portions of text quoted from previously published sources, which of course were copyrighted separately and (more importantly) prior to the publication of the dust jacket.
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I take your point and I personally dislike it when a paragraph has a few references only at the end because verification becomes a pain, but if the referencing style affects readability I think that is an issue. I don't think much would be lost or made harder by doing something
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question about the
Clarivate citations, which I've answered in part and Randykitty has answered in part, but you haven't replied yet so I'm unsure if you're satisfied with our response. Please let me know if you have remaining concerns about Clarivate or anything else!
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oh that's great to hear you enjoyed reading the article about the
Securitas heist! I have replied on the image licensing and the citebundling. I've also added another query under references2. When these three things are resolved I'll be happy to make this a GA.
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New, interesting GA that reads well and looks properly sourced. Hook is short, interesting and supported in the article and source. QPQ is done. The picture looks good and appears to be in the public domain, going by the info on
Commons. Well done!
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Wow, I didn't expect a wall of text in response to my simple question. So, just to pick a random assertion: on what source(s) is "those that describe its impact within its field of study typically describe it as influential and important" based?
1722:. Accessing Clarivate's proprietary Journal Impact Factor info requires a Journal Citation Report (JCR) subscription, which I do not have, so I took Randykitty's insertion on good faith. Other GA-level academic journal articles like
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To provide a little more info about how this aspect of US copyright law works, here's a counterexample of a work I once looked into but did not upload to
Commons because it remains copyrighted: the original US edition dust jacket of
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I combined the first two sentences in a revision that's pretty close to yours. However I'm just not seeing a way to combine the CELJ and Wegner sentences. The subjects seem too unrelated to naturally blend, and while I'm not as
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An IF of 0.1 is rather pathetic, this seems to be a rather obscure journal (trivia like "one of only three scholarly journals about an
American author who was still alive at the time it began publication" notwithstanding...)
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1648:, which can have a locked gray or red padlock, but not an unlocked green padlock, because they're presumed to be free. I did a quick double-check of the sources and I think all the citations with URLs are correctly notated.
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As of 2013, Blood Meridian (1985) was the most-discussed of McCarthy's works in the journal, while bestsellers like All the Pretty Horses (1992), No Country for Old Men (2005), and The Road had also received significant
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has actually been performing a bit better than average within its field of American literature, citability-wise. This kind of contextualization between academic fields with different citation practices is exactly what
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While there are many periodicals about specific authors, The Cormac McCarthy Journal was—as of 2023—one of only three scholarly journals about an American author who was still alive at the time it began
2494:). All of these criteria are considered relative to the field in question, which in this case is modern American literary studies. I discuss citation frequency and impact factor more below.You suggest
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with great interest when it appeared as today's featured article a while back, not having heard of the crime before. I appreciate the clarity and forensic detail you transmit with your writing.
1771:{{cite book |year=2023 |chapter=Cormac McCarthy Journal |title=2022 Journal Citation Reports |publisher=] |edition=Emerging Sources |series=] |title-link=Journal Citation Reports}}</ref: -->
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the public domain. Published works had to include a compliant copyright notice, or else the possibility of copyright protection would lapse instantaneously upon publication. As quoted at
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recommends omitting the publisher location when the location is included in the name of the publisher or periodical, as is the case for several of my citations such as those from
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Thanks for the reply. Your rationale does make sense to me, I just haven't seen it before and wouldn't say image copyright is my strongest area, so I'll ask for a second opinion
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2440:. Even the reference for the hook in the above DYK nomination is nothing more than an in-passing mention. Perhaps I have missed something, so before taking this to AfD, perhaps
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may not be lighting the world on fire, but it's not nearly as deficient as a glance at its impact factor alone might suggest.Look, I'm not saying that this is the
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I hate to pee on the party, as obviously a lot of effort has gone into this, but having looked at several references, I do not see how this is notable. It misses
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nice work, I'll put this review onhold for you to answer the queries below. If you need to take more than a week, that's fine as along as we are in communication
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2607:. You may compare the individual claims and citations there, where it counts. I'll admit that I didn't cite any particular source that can be quoted as saying "
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interested in improving Knowledge's coverage of content related to the fields of rhetoric, composition, technical communication, literacy, and language studies.
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References are all high quality, there's a bit of inconsistency over using publisher location - most do, for example Peebles 2020 doesn't (and there's more)
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significant journal ever or anything. I marked this article as low-importance within every WikiProject it falls under. But "low-importance" ≠non-notable.
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dust jacket cover in 1979 and then failed to register it by 1984, meaning any copyright interest in the dust jacket cover lapsed. I've uploaded
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doesn't verify "According to the Journal Citation Reports, the journal has a 2022 impact factor of 0.1." and "Emerging Sources Citation Index"
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Not a pass/fail issue but would be great if you could add an alt description to File:Cormac McCarthy (1980 portrait, Lexington Leader).jpg per
1672:- so hopefully second time round it'll stick in my brain. I'll give the refs another look just to check but I'm not anticipating any problems
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journal moved from the McCarthy society's website to the Texas Digital Library. Stacey Peebles of Centre College took over as editor in 2010.
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OK, I take this as you saying that your assertion about the importance if this journal is not based on any source saying this, but on your
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Anon. (n.d.). "Search ". Web of Science Master Journal List. Clarivate. Archived from the original on July 9, 2023. Retrieved July 9, 2023.
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and the Knoxville News Sentinel, the last of which had originally printed two of the articles republished by The Cormac McCarthy Journal
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in the 0.1 range, likewise tucked away in a niche humanities field. It would seem no one's talking about Cormac McCarthy as much as
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great the Clarivate query seems resolved then, so it's just the query about the short sentences. Thanks for working this through,
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I count just the one outstanding comment, regarding prose and combining sentences, to which I've now responded. There's also your
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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OK, you don't have to combine those two sentences, but if we take the rest of the paragraph it's still very jerky:
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I joined the two sentences about the 2001–2009 editorship together; let me know if you have further suggestions.
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they registered the work with the Copyright Office within 5 years of publication. Random House published the
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if you are marking eg Harris with a padlock for access, then others eg Monk should also be marked that way
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as an additional point, checking "Indexing and abstracting", I am finding some citations hard to verify:
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I agree that my usage of the image would not be covered by fair use. It's possible because the image of
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rationale for the other book cover). What are you basing your rationale on, are there other examples?
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Yes you are correct here, I had a niggling memory of a previous discussion about this and it
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below.
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earwig just highlighting names, will check for any close paraphrasing in spotchecks
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I don't see how the journal misses the notability criteria "by a mile". As I read
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is in the Emerging Sources Citation Index; it is not cited for the impact factor.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
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this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
2322:: The source specifies that there were only three such journals listed on the
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Hi! Thank you for your review. As it so happens I read your article on the
889:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
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exclude mention of any other possible scientometric index other than JIF
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1980:- you could then bullet point what references what if it was a concern.
2484:"considered by reliable sources to be influential in its subject area"
2206:), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page.
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so the image query is resolved, waiting for answers on the other two
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its central setting of Knoxville, Tennessee in October of that year.
2006:, I don't get the sense a semicolon here would improve readability.
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Template talk:Did you know nominations/The Cormac McCarthy Journal
2553:, 2021). I've now added the JCI to the article for that reason.
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Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the
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This is how I reference a journal's IF: <ref name=WoS: -->
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Template:Did you know nominations/The Cormac McCarthy Journal
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it does not need to be the main topic of the source material
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Help:Citation Style 1#Access indicator for named identifiers
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ridiculous shadowboxing.I'm curious what basis there is to
2488:"the journal is frequently cited by other reliable sources"
2505:"Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but
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can list those references that actually treat the journal
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Great the second opinion is that the licensing is good :)
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This is actually not possible in the case of Monk. Check
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I'd suggest combining some of these sentences together.
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Paraphrased to avoid the need for in-line attribution.
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Low-importance Pennsylvania State University articles
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by a mile, nor do I see the in-depth coverage of the
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shortly after McCarthy's death, the other two being
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2520:book-length treatments of McCarthy's work. As the
2749:GA-Class United States articles of Low-importance
1936:University from its first issue until about 2009.
1867:Also among "handful of sympathetic publications"
214:. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
2754:GA-Class Pennsylvania State University articles
2626:?? Just kidding! Because, of course, Clarivate
1938:- bit choppy, suggest combining these sentences
1405:Furthermore the painting on the front cover of
920:Hi I'll take this on for review as part of the
2545:intended when they introduced the JCI metric:
2354:. Still, it's a rare distinction. Specifying "
1911:suggest comma after 1997 and unlinking website
2499:isolation from the journal's subject matter.
1309:Article is stable, focused, broad and neutral
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2492:"historically important in its subject area"
2315:Template:Did you know nominations/Bork tapes
2208:No further edits should be made to this page
1615:Oh that is interesting, I didn't know that!
1457:User_talk:GRuban#The_Cormac_McCarthy_Journal
415:WikiProject Academic Journals' writing guide
2377:. Post-promotion hook changes for this nom
2004:averse to semicolons as Cormac McCarthy was
1740:also have similar impact factor citations.
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294:Knowledge:Recent additions/2023/September
283:academic journals about a specific author
267:). The text of the entry was as follows:
202:Social sciences and society good articles
419:for tips on how to improve this article.
2532:assigns the journal a field-normalized
2524:notes of Arts and Humanities Journals:
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1797:one other journal on Knowledge
1400:the correct entity as long as
198:has been listed as one of the
1:
2462:16:16, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
2410:11:21, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
2375:03:06, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
2266:
2103:13:54, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
2089:21:31, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
2064:10:39, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
1347:Suttree - Cormac McCarthy.jpg
1082:13:55, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
922:August 2023 GAN Backlog Drive
803:13:57, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
743:Knowledge:WikiProject Writing
676:This article is supported by
550:Pennsylvania State University
490:and see a list of open tasks.
390:and see a list of open tasks.
379:WikiProject Academic Journals
263:column on 17 September 2023 (
42:Put new text under old text.
2784:WikiProject Writing articles
2729:GA-Class Literature articles
2522:University of Sussex Library
2336:MLA Directory of Periodicals
2324:MLA Directory of Periodicals
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746:Template:WikiProject Writing
2609:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
2555:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
2538:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
2480:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
2281:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
2204:Knowledge talk:Did you know
2196:this nomination's talk page
2043:13:40, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
2020:22:34, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
1990:12:43, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1976:Another option would be to
1960:02:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1900:02:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1845:13:38, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
1822:22:34, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
1801:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
1783:07:46, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
1754:05:18, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
1709:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
1682:12:39, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1662:02:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1625:12:37, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1609:02:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
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1468:12:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1451:12:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1435:03:06, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1380:02:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
1103:
1068:13:41, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
1050:22:34, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
1020:11:52, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
1002:13:32, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
983:02:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
954:13:12, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
933:11:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
912:11:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
277:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
251:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
196:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
25:The Cormac McCarthy Journal
2800:
2534:journal citation indicator
1587:Cambridge University Press
1421:dust jacket is concerned.
769:project's importance scale
660:project's importance scale
522:project's importance scale
2774:GA-Class Writing articles
2528:For what it's worth, the
2350:) about the still-living
1737:Genes, Brain and Behavior
762:
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590:WikiProject United States
559:
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80:Be welcoming to newcomers
2530:Journal Citation Reports
2348:homepage for back issues
2174:Please do not modify it.
812:Please do not modify it.
595:United States of America
253:appeared on Knowledge's
2704:Knowledge good articles
2490:), and/or criterion 3 (
2200:the article's talk page
2181:Did you know nomination
1972:issue until about 2009.
1592:Knoxville News Sentinel
1072:happy to pass this now
967:Securitas depot robbery
672:
640:United States articles
479:WikiProject Literature
328:This article is rated
309:
226:: September 4, 2023. (
75:avoid personal attacks
2373:). Self-nominated at
1869:- who is saying that?
1731:The Accounting Review
1583:Help:Citation Style 1
1283:Good Article criteria
1255:free or tagged images
671:
307:
208:good article criteria
100:Neutral point of view
2432:, as opposed to its
1978:bundle the citations
582:United States portal
105:No original research
2436:sufficient to meet
2332:James Dickey Review
2328:Philip Roth Studies
1547:1 can't access, AGF
1108:review progress box
730:WikiProject Writing
608:Articles Requested!
502:Literature articles
2605:the article itself
2285:is one of the few
1570:- backed by source
1562:- backed by source
1555:- backed by source
1285:. Criteria marked
813:
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334:content assessment
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281:is one of the few
86:dispute resolution
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2352:Thomas Pynchon
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883:transcluded
735:WikiProject
287:its subject
265:check views
148:free images
31:not a forum
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273:... that
255:Main Page
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2450:in depth
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1395:(1985).
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864:Criteria
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