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and
Kashmir have suffered pellet wounds, hundreds have eye-injuries, and at least 14 people have died due to their pellet injuries." The article also talks about "One of the youngest pellet guns victims is a 19 month old child, Heeba Jan, who suffered injuries in 2018. Another young person to suffer from pellet injuries is Insha Malik (Insha Ahmed), who was left blind as a result of her injuries." The article also mentions pellet guns are criticised. The article also mentions how tear gas shells have killed people. It also says how curfews have been held for long periods...
1633:". This is exactly how edit wars start. I will let others see how to handle this since this is taking too much energy and I don't have the energy to explain why so many points you have written above are nonsensical in my opinion stemming from not being able to understand what this article is about and seeming to not understand that other Knowledge articles already cover your points which you want to add here. I am nominating this for article for AFD since if it can't pass a simple DYK then I don't think it should even be an article. Regards. Happy editing.
1100:. The other points raised related to the sources cited can be addressed accordingly, and do not have anything to with this DYK as far as I can tell now since Winged Blades doubts have also been addressed as far as I can tell since there in no reply from his side here above. I request this DYK to continue for now unless no one has any other page rename suggestions, and inclusion of sources which haven't been used, can carry on. Again I repeat, as far as the DYK issue is concerned, I think it can proceed as normal. Regards.
1853:
point is that there have been advancements in tear smoke munitions allowing them to be used more prominently as compared to the other crowd-control weapons" with "The plastic of the soft-nosed shells melts very easily, releasing a gas that helps disperse the crowds. So the shells cannot be fatal in themselves. Secondly, we have made advancements in tear smoke munitions (TSM) that can be used more prominently than other crowd-control weapons".
2355:, thanks for the suggestion and your efforts. The concern regarding shotgun/airgun has already been discussed on the talk page where the consensus is to use what the reliable sources and media are using to refer it. Anyway, this has been clarified with appropriate wikilinks and texts in the first line of the lead as well. Regarding the chronology. I have made further copy edits to the lead. Please see if this is acceptable now. regards.
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1403:, For your point - "I understand that the 2016β17 Kashmir unrest is WP:TOOBIG otherwise this clearly belongs there because every date cited is from that period." This article clearly has SOPs and laws and incidents and equipment which are prior to 2016 -17. There are plently more incidents which can be added prior to 2016. Hence the shift to
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Hi, I came by to promote this, but I find the article hard to follow because it is not adhering to chronological order. The lead starts with something that happened in 2017 and then goes back to 2016. Years are mixed up throughout the article. It is unclear to me why the hook fact only appears in the
2145:
relevant section mentions "The first weapon used to disperse the crowds, be it near an encounter site or anywhere else, is the tear smoke munitions. The next in the list are chili bombs, followed by pump action guns". If you incorporate that infprmation into a new hook I should be able to approve it.
842:
The article mentions in the lead the number of protestors killed in 2018 - "51 rioters being killed during clashes and 37 rioters being killed during encounters". The article mentions how over 100 protestors were killed in police firing in 2010. The article mentions how "thousands of people in Jammu
1122:
it only means that that the issue has not resolved. A simple concern, that you are still not understanding, is that this is not a normal crowd but protesters, and this issue doesn't concerns entire Jammu and
Kashmir but only Kashmir Valley. The problem is not just with the title but article itself.
858:
Even after this if you think it is NPOV should I create an entirely new section in the article called "Criticism" and stuff it with criticism of the methods of India dating all the way back to 1947, about the horrendousness of Indian crowd control methods and how severely inhumane and barbaric they
2144:
This article was new enough when nominated and is long enough. The article seems sufficiently neutral and has been stable for the last two months. I detected no copyright or plagiarism issues and no QPQ is needed. With regard to the hook, I couldn't find the hook facts for ALT3 in the article. The
1852:
I'm concerned that some of the phrasing in this article is too close to that of its sources. Compare for example "the plastic of the soft-nosed shells easily melts and releases a gas that disperses the crowd. These soft-nosed shells cannot cause fatal injuries. According to CRPF officers, another
771:
as it stands right now covers all aspect of the crowd control in J&K and covers the victims from both sides. This article has recently been created so it does "not" need to pass a GA criteria for being able to pass the DYK nomination stage. That said there is always some room for improvement
847:
is inaccurate according to me in saying that this is NPOV. I would request someone else to go through it, or even better..... expand it so the NPOV is sorted and we can get over with this, rather than say that this is a highly effective praise of the Indian machinery which should be meaningless
1786:
After a much needed break from this article, I am now able to shift to this article again and will take up each point raised one by one, as calmly as possible with the patience this one requires. This is a difficult article and will be given due consideration accordingly, as I had been giving
1157:(You do not have to respond to Mehrajmir) let's wait for a neutral DYK reviewer to come along and review this, as I already noted above, Mehrajmir13 has followed my contributions to reach this DYK and to continue his content dispute with me. The points he has raised are clearly frivolous
1345:
Simple requests: who, what, where and why? I made a few edits but have already been reverted: one to explain that the region belongs to India, and to explain who is using these weapons. I am not interested in an edit war, only in resolving this nomination. I understand that the
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everywhere, even in a GA/ FA article. So lets contribute collaboratively. If you can elaborate your specific problems with the article on the article talk page and your suggestions on how it can be addressed we all can see what more can be done to improve this article. regards
1238:
Oh
Congratulations to you, that you have 3 times more edits than me on DYK, unfortunately I am not interested in comparing dick sizes or DYK edit counts. You have already confessed above that you are going through my contribution, which is how you found that you have
1690:
thanks a lot for giving a detailed review along with your concerns. IMHO this is much more helpful than some of the other comments that were made above. DTM is on vacation and I will take time to fix the issues that you pointed. Thanks for your patience.
2173:
appreciate your kind comments and the review. The line in the section SOPs that you are referring to happened before the events of ALT3. The
Article lead already included the content related to ALT3, and I have now included it to its relevant section at
1671:@DBX and DTm:- This's getting more and more farcical with the passage of time. This article (though on a notable topic) will need a huge lot of work to be NPOV-free (and be DYK suitable) and rebut concerns of Cforking. Please withdraw this nom.
246:
Source: "People have learned protective tricks like the use of wet cloth to counter it. Experienced rioters do not take it seriously. The shells are either smothered with a wet gunny bag or thrown back at the police," the report concludes"
848:
here... I also think Winged Blades of Godric is throwing his own highly effective propaganda around if they can't help improve the article despite clearly knowing its faults and saying they are uninvolved despite "trying" to touch it up.
1049:
can never be the same article. If you would like an article on the latter, you are free to create one. As far as this article is concerned, if you are able to make any suggestions for improvements, either before or after DYK, I am sure
2178:. Since ALT3 is a more recent and relevant event, I feel it is more apt here, rather than making another ALT4 with outdated info. Please check if this DYK can proceed. Any further suggestions for improvement are also welcome. regards.
93:
697:
Put this on hold, please. Unless I manage to read the entirety and (possibly) get over my initial feelings of slapping a POV tag. If you see no editorial efforts of mine within the next 48 hrs. at the article, feel free to proceed.
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I agree with WBG that you ought to withdraw your nomination unless one of you is going to fix this article now. Four days have passed since the second rejection, yet the original authors have made zero contributions.
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Source: "The army has recommended replacing pellet guns used by paramilitary forces and state police for crowd control in
Kashmir with less lethal weapons such as sound cannons, pepper shotguns and chilli grenades."
721:--This's is a blatant POV piece; manifested as an highly effective praise of the Indian machinery. The author has been careful in weeding out any source (of which there is an abundance) that criticizes the methods.
1054:
will take them on board and I will be happy to help to the extent I can. The current sources include the New York Times, Washington Post, BBC and
Reuters. They are from "third countries" as far as I am aware. --
1645:
1246:
The comments by
Mehrajmir13 (who seems to be here only to stall the DYK and get rid of the article) have already been replied to both here and on the talk page. WBG has also warned him against this behavior
1719:
Thank you, DBigXray. Something tells me there's a chance this could work out. P.S. Maybe you can edit down the section I added about the UN report. It sticks out like a sore thumb, maybe that's allright.
2269:
Thanks for your kind review. In addition to what Cwm stated above, I would also point out that the DYK Fact is currently at two places in the article, once in the lead as well as in the article body as
996:
you should not really be using these DYK nominations as battle grounds to attack editors you are having content disputes with. The language used in your comment clearly shows that you are at an impasse.
1186:
I watched this DYK since it is concerns one of the area where I frequently contribute and I am a long term contributor to DYKs in general, having nearly 3 times more edits to DYK space than you.
1013:
After your comment I have included the UNCHR report from a local
Kashmiri newspaper. I note that the article already includes criticism from notable organisations such as Amnesty International.
1147:
Mehrajmir13 you are acting naive now. Crowd control is the standard phrase used internationally, if you arent aware of the standard terms then knowledge is just a quick google search away, (
935:
The page itself is misleading by its name. There is no mention of neutral sources like local newspapers, UNHRC or any representative report of other countries. The page should be renamed as
2389:. I see you have been patiently shepherding this article for quite a few months. I gave it a full read-through and everything looks good. Restoring tick for ALT3 per Cwmhiraeth's review.
1444:" I have added two lines to the background section accordingly. I also mentioned security forces in the lead again. I think all your points should be covered with these answer?
814:
it would be very helpful for the article if after your review you can also share (here or on article talk) your suggestions to improve if you find any "major" issues. regards
1461:
A nit: I asked that the word Indian please be added to the hook, so the reader could understand who is using these weapons. Instead I got the reply, "It already says that."
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Source: The
Central Reserve Police Force uses a variety of weapons, including pellet guns, tear gas, and slingshots that hurl stones when glass marbles arenβt available.
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in one article. I would have liked to see you help some of these existing articles rather than spread into yet another new one. I concur with and follow the lead of
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1468:, every time). You have a lot of knowledge to offer, and there is no doubt this conflict in Kashmir is a sad, sixty year-old breakdown. I wish I understood why
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Without an explanation from WBG about what specifically they object to, and given that, having re-read this, I believe it to be NPOV, this review is still a
88:
1119:" to reply on talk page. Fact that you are completely misunderstanding the concerns and throwing a bunch of personal attacks as per your talk page comments,
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1389:, my aim was also not to start an edit war. I reverted my own edit of your edit. The lead is again as you had put it. Thank you for these points. Regards.
2251:
I have done my bit in trying to move this long-stalled nomination forward. What DYK rule requires the alterations to the article that you are requesting?
1250:. The consensus on the talk page is to continue with the current title and article, there is absolutely no consensus for any kind of merge or rename.
1243:". I would advise you not to follow my contribution history anymore. On the next instance of your hounding I will seek admin actions to prevent this.
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That I'm not involved with the article/ broader area in any editorial manner (and nether with the author in any manner), I don't see any reason to
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581:, thanks a lot for your kind comment and review. we did a quick poll among ourselves, we feel that ALT0 is the best among the three along with
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and content included from those hundreds of neutral sources out there and can anyone explain how can be a 19 month old child as a rioter?
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has also reviewed and commented about an issue that has already been fixed. Not sure what is making this DYK wait for an eternity.
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Everything looks great. Can you pick a hook and image should I can approve it? All hooks should work, and both images do as well.
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Personal note: I don't know what side the authors are on, if any. By the way, I've had my own problems with DYK (I need to watch
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I do not think that the renaming that is suggested in the link above will occur and I have commented the same on the talk page
303:: image is entirely optional, only text DYK or text+Image DYK can also be considered. ALT2 if approved would need a different
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2006:, Thanks a lot for your kind review and response. Can you please mark this DYK with subst:DYKtick, so that it can proceed.
1485:
Pellet shotguns have been used by Indian security forces for crowd control in Jammu and
Kashmir against stone pelting mobs
1429:, You have written - "Can the hook please say that Indian security forces are using these weapons?" It already says that.
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There is nothing misleading about the article title, it has a specific scope and the article covers its scope quite well.
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I'll let someone else respond to the re-review you've requested, as I haven't checked other areas of DYK compliance.
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I note here, that I will wait for comments from a new DYK reviewer, so that this DYK page does not become another
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SusanLesch has already done an extensive review of this article and DYK as evident from the talk page after that
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excuse. Nothing can be added, everything is spun off, until nothing is recognizable. We already discussed
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tear gas shells are used, but experienced protestors often throw the shells back or cover them with wet
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How about readability? I just looked at the lead again and it does not flow in a logical sequence.
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the same photo used in your DYK nomination. This caption does not show a spirit of deescalation: "
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1476:. I can't do that either, but here are my notes from yesterday. Certainly, I made mistakes.
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thanks. The test sig was a mistake, the real reviewer is this account. I'll pass this now.
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2325:, if you are talking about something that causes much more damage. I suggest you write "
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there would be a section on India there. (I edited out someone's idea of a red link for
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Source: "No More Pellet Guns in Kashmir: Forces to Use Rubber Bullets, Chili Grenades"
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in that case, I'm going to recuse myself from this DYK, and ask for another reviewer:
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It does not make sense to use the term "pellet gun", which in common parlance is an
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lead; it seems an important enough development to include in the main text as well.
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below.
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I used to edit Donald Trump articles until I found they are a quagmire of the same
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otherwise this clearly belongs there because every date cited is from that period.
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are... that is according to the sources Winged Blades is probably talking about?
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now. Your "standard terms" show nothing compared to what we see after searching
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I'll re-read the article. I'm sorry I didn't catch this when doing my review --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
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shows. I also changed the lead and the article to make it more chronological.
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article should be reviewed again. As noted above, the issues have been fixed.
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Can the background section or lead please summarize why conflict is necessary?
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Can the background section or lead please summarize why conflict is necessary?
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1151:) which turns up a large number of reliable sources that are using this term.
1006:" is entirely frivolous because that article on that topic already exists at
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Mehrajmir13 I note that you are having an ongoing content dispute with me at
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Can the hook please say that Indian security forces are using these weapons?
123:
1041:, that is unfortunately not a productive comment. You very well know that
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which has a terrible reputation. Or the August 15, 2016 article from the
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and many others make no mention of "crowd" but talk about "protestors".
767:
thanks for sharing your opinion on the article. The article authored by
47:), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page.
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Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
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to fix the concerns raised above. reviewing material and sources.
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Crowd control in Jammu and Kashmir
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didn't help in 1947. You asked the previous reviewers to give you
1802:
Talk:Crowd_control_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir#Points_raised_in_the_DYK
164:
A J&K policeman holding a pellet gun during a violent clash
1800:
I have started a new section on the talk page of the article (
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and pasted it here. DiplomatTesterMan was kind enough to make
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Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
1915:, I have done a copy edit of the entire article to fix the
644:. I made a minor correction in the caption above. regards.
258:: ... that in 2016 the Indian Army advocated mediation of
1070:
Talk:Crowd_control_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir#Rename_article_2
171:... that the security forces are replacing the usage of
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896:, can you check if the issues I have expressed in this
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466:Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
1492:Report on the Situation of Human Rights in Kashmir
1988:Close paraphrasing appears to be reasonable now.
1550:, and now you copied the background section from
2176:Crowd_control_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir#Replacements
1804:) that will deal with all the points raised by
1515:This article doesn't say that 2016 was called "
200::... that ...security forces in India also use
1787:accordingly when I first created it. Regards.
1325:New reviewer needed, as noted above. Thanks.
8:
49:No further edits should be made to this page
1560:Indian Army operations in Jammu and Kashmir
175:with rubber bullets and chili grenades for
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2424:Passed DYK nominations from December 2018
1197:on Google. Indeed, reliable sources like
1565:If you had demonstrated an interest in
1502:answered Unstarred Question Number 4185
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1407:isn't needed apart from the reason of
366:Article is new enough and long enough
1575:seven different scenarios for Kashmir
1241:three times more edits on DYK than me
900:have been covered in the article? --
747:from me on grounds of Rule 4 (NPOV).
7:
1948:another ping for the last reviewer
1002:Your suggestion to rename this as "
872:Knowledge:Sarcasm is really helpful
345:) at 18:30, 30 December 2018 (UTC).
1877:to fix the concerns raised above.
1631:I am not interested in an edit war
1552:Peacebuilding in Jammu and Kashmir
1504:. He must be a better source than
261:crowd control in Jammu and Kashmir
230:crowd control in Jammu and Kashmir
207:crowd control in Jammu and Kashmir
178:crowd control in Jammu and Kashmir
135:Crowd control in Jammu and Kashmir
24:
2385:Thanks for your further editing,
2208:Thank you. Good to go with ALT3.
1490:This article doesn't mention the
1189:You should refrain from any more
18:Template:Did you know nominations
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1195:"protestors"+"kashmir"+"pellet"
1063:) 23:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
926:) 22:30, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
808:) 16:41, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
686:) 17:16, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
32:Please do not modify this page.
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1919:issues largely introduced by
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988:another article and you have
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765:User:Winged Blades of Godric
585:, please proceed with ALT0.
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2341:) 11:41, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
2259:) 06:24, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
2237:) 21:07, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
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68:) 11:02, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
45:Knowledge talk:Did you know
37:this nomination's talk page
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2153:) 08:39, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
2039:) 13:04, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
1996:) 00:44, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
1941:10:59, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
1684:09:48, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
1161:kind of stalling tactics.
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2299:06:55, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
2196:11:09, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
1895:05:31, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
1770:06:31, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
1149:"crowd control"+"kashmir"
119:Find sources (notability)
94:Earwig's Copyvio Detector
2118:12:33, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
2024:07:41, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
1969:14:53, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
1835:, ALT3 is ready to go. -
1558:, so to this we can add
1544:Stone pelting in Kashmir
1530:. One day has turned up
1043:Crowd control in Kashmir
730:perform a second-review.
845:Winged Blades of Godric
796:Winged Blades of Godric
41:the article's talk page
1528:2016β17 Kashmir unrest
1405:2016β17 Kashmir unrest
1348:2016β17 Kashmir unrest
1115:You don't have to be "
1008:2016β17 Kashmir unrest
1517:The Year of Dead Eyes
1499:Hansraj Gangaram Ahir
109:A Simple Word Counter
89:Reviewer instructions
2329:" or "pellet-firing
437:copyright violations
227::... that ...during
1629:, You had written "
1497:On March 28, 2017,
214:National Geographic
114:Reviewers' template
1608:this nomination. -
1548:History of Kashmir
1512:would have worked.
445:close paraphrasing
1921:DiplomatTesterMan
1810:DiplomatTesterMan
1789:DiplomatTesterMan
1650:DiplomatTesterMan
1635:DiplomatTesterMan
1494:of June 14, 2018.
1446:DiplomatTesterMan
1431:DiplomatTesterMan
1413:DiplomatTesterMan
1391:DiplomatTesterMan
1155:DiplomatTesterMan
1102:DiplomatTesterMan
894:DiplomatTesterMan
876:DiplomatTesterMan
861:DiplomatTesterMan
769:DiplomatTesterMan
555:
554:
551:: None required.
543:
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414:Adequate sourcing
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1584:On the basis of
1536:Kashmir conflict
1428:
1344:
1324:
1311:
1308:
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1266:
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1225:
1224:
1222:
1191:personal attacks
1177:
1174:
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1134:
1133:
1131:
1083:
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1080:
1047:Kashmir uprising
1029:
1026:
1020:
1004:Kashmir Uprising
971:
965:
950:
949:
947:
937:Kashmir Uprising
934:
918:pass from me. --
917:
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532:Clear at 100px:
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56:The result was:
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2017:
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1594:WP:NOTPROMOTION
1510:Hindustan Times
1422:
1306:
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749:
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735:This's a solid
714:
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665:
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534:
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522:Used in article
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291:Hindustan Times
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149:Article history
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104:Character count
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30:
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2399:
2398:
2375:
2374:
2343:
2342:
2333:" throughout.
2301:
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2239:
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2199:
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1998:
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1943:
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1897:
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1828:
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1582:
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1187:
1181:
1180:
1159:WP:IDONTLIKEIT
1152:
1142:
1141:
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1033:
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997:
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868:
849:
791:
732:
731:
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712:
694:
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689:
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642:User:DannyS712
608:User:DannyS712
604:
579:DannyS712 test
553:
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541:
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280:
279:
278:
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274:chili grenades
253:
193:
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157:
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146:
144:Back to T:TDYK
140:
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96:
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1567:Crowd control
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1479:You added to
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1068:Please refer
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1036:
1035:
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1021:
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1005:
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992:me here. Per
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484:Interesting:
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415:
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270:sonic cannons
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50:
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42:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
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2179:
2166:
2101:
2061:
2054:
2007:
1952:
1924:
1908:
1878:
1874:
1829:
1808:one by one.
1783:
1753:
1749:
1692:
1677:
1630:
1623:
1605:
1506:Sputnik News
1481:Riot control
1473:
1441:
1369:
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1251:
1240:
1215:
1162:
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1073:
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1014:
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940:
936:
911:
815:
773:
753:
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727:
704:
645:
610:
606:Also notify
586:
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463:
403:
363:
348:
311:
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259:
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228:
224:
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205:
197:
195:
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188:Sputnik News
182:
176:
170:
57:
55:
48:
31:
28:
1648:. Regards.
1644:AFD link -
1327:BlueMoonset
1219: Mehra
1128: Mehra
1077: Mehra
1039:Mehrajmir13
962:Mehrajmir13
944: Mehra
385:Long enough
313:Created by
266:pepper guns
249:india Today
235:gunny sacks
173:pellet guns
124:Hook length
75:DYK toolbox
2309:Cwmhiraeth
2253:Cwmhiraeth
2210:Cwmhiraeth
2171:Cwmhiraeth
2147:Cwmhiraeth
2098:Nikkimaria
2033:Nikkimaria
2004:Nikkimaria
1990:Nikkimaria
1950:Nikkimaria
1913:Nikkimaria
1855:Nikkimaria
1837:SusanLesch
1806:SusanLesch
1734:SusanLesch
1722:SusanLesch
1688:SusanLesch
1627:SusanLesch
1610:SusanLesch
1470:Hari Singh
1425:SusanLesch
1401:SusanLesch
1387:SusanLesch
1372:SusanLesch
640:Thank you
441:plagiarism
374:New enough
239:(pictured:
202:slingshots
183:(pictured)
2272:this edit
1596:, I also
1586:WP:DYKNOT
1524:WP:TOOBIG
1466:copyright
1409:WP:TOOBIG
1352:WP:TOOBIG
1223:Mir
1212:The Hindu
1208:DNA India
1132:Mir
1081:Mir
1057:Kautilya3
994:WP:BATTLE
974:DannyS712
948:Mir
920:DannyS712
902:Kautilya3
854:DannyS712
838:DannyS712
812:DannyS712
802:DannyS712
717:DannyS712
680:DannyS712
678:passes --
568:DannyS712
331:Kautilya3
99:QPQ check
84:DYK check
2418:Category
2387:DBigXray
2317:DBigXray
1674:∯
1624:Comment:
1052:DBigXray
990:followed
750:∯
701:∯
668:DBigXray
633:DBigXray
435:Free of
364:General:
339:DBigXray
323:DBigXray
58:promoted
2391:Yoninah
2351:Yoninah
2335:Yoninah
2323:air gun
2265:Yoninah
2247:Yoninah
2231:Yoninah
1917:WP:CLOP
1875:Working
1784:Working
1750:Working
1606:decline
1590:Rule 4a
1474:reasons
1199:Amnesty
1117:WP:BOLD
1098:WP:BOLD
745:decline
558:Overall
425:Neutral
404:Policy:
329:), and
305:image 2
301:Comment
241:image 2
62:Yoninah
2165:
1907:
1873:
1782:
1748:
1592:, and
1571:curfew
1556:a list
1411:also.
1229:(talk)
1138:(talk)
1087:(talk)
954:(talk)
672:still
501:Image:
443:, and
272:, and
1201:, BBC
870:p.s.
583:pic 1
474:Cited
464:Hook:
264:with
16:<
2395:talk
2339:talk
2280:diff
2276:diff
2257:talk
2235:talk
2214:talk
2167:Done
2151:talk
2037:talk
1994:talk
1909:Done
1859:talk
1841:talk
1814:talk
1793:talk
1738:talk
1726:talk
1654:talk
1639:talk
1614:talk
1588:and
1450:talk
1435:talk
1417:talk
1395:talk
1376:talk
1331:talk
1106:talk
1061:talk
1045:and
978:talk
924:talk
906:talk
898:post
880:talk
874:...
865:talk
806:talk
684:talk
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