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At the time the change was made, the use of the templates was still pretty limited - so this was viewed as a relatively simple means to resolve the issue with minimal negative impact to other articles. Now that the template is going into more widespread use, it may be time to re-evaluate this, or to
650:
Well, there are other options. A different template could be created, maybe {{'2}} or something similar ... or we could use the format {{'|b}} for where the spacing isn't needed ... or we could remove the space and use {{'|tab}} or {{'|s}} where the spacing is needed ... or we could use the manual
279:
This makes no logical sense to me. The link {{tl|'}} will still get used as before, the link still works due to the redirect, so there's no benefit from the move. But, now all uses of the template require a redirect to process. Granted, the server overhead isn't a majopr issue here; but it still
325:
Even though there is nothing (that I'm aware of) that states templates should use certain naming conventions, however, I do think that if a better and more self explanatory name is possible, then that should be used instead. I don't know what else to say. Anyway... I listed the move under
1906:
Oh yeah, it is bolded, I didn't notice. So it's still broken, just not as much. Anyway, the template is fully protected and I'm not an admin. I only commented since the template was something I had recently used and I thought that's why you pinged me.
42:. On its surface, that template is very similar to this one - but it has one distinct advantage. That template avoids the situation where the apostrophe crashes with italicized text by using this code to surround the apostrophe in the template:
1319:
If you're talking about
Trappist's examples above, the warning is in the live template, while the sandbox version does not show it. Once they're comfortable that the sandbox works correctly, it'll be merged into the live template.
1090:
As, currently, this template appears to consist of nothing more than the apostrophe/single-quotemark character itself (i.e. doesn't, according to the documentation, use its decimal code) and doesn't e.g. use any padding, is it now
201:, which also includes a report on extensive testing under Windows (I can further confirm that it works just fine in multiple browsers under Mac OS X). There was no need for something this simple to be a VP discussion, either. —
1365:, it seems that the template needs to have a non-breaking space incorporated so that it wraps properly at the end of a line of text. I don't have the slightest clue about coding templates, so I figured I'd post here.
1660:
If MediaWiki can handle this now, then that reason is gone. As for spacing and wrapping stuff, that seems like a browser issue as
Kendall-K1 says. I'd probably be for deprecating this template then.
682:(outdent) IMHO, adding those extra parameters is kind of yucky, it makes the template look less attractive and more cluttered. Making a different template seems more parsimonious. Why not steal
1940:
Oh well, I wasn't aware that there were different kinds of template protections as "template-portected" is admin-only I thought you were one. But since about everyone involved agreed, e.g.
2112:, I believe you are requesting an edit to an article, rather than an edit to this template. What article are you referring to? (Closing the edit request, since it does not apply here.)
702:, and only 5 pages link to it and it has only been edited twice ever, so I imagine it's not very widely used and we wouldn't cause too much disruption if we were to steal it.)
1022:
In the sandbox I've used a zero-width space following the apostrophe instead of the hair-width space. I think this makes it look more like the current template - see the
594:
1466:. The s after this template (unless I got the template name wrong) did not stick in a word wrap, so I rephrased three instances of it. Thanks for all your hard work! --
1390:. I've added , a zero width joiner, so everything sticks together in a wrap. There shouldn't be any issues associated with this, but let me know if anything crops up.
2038:
I still think the padding is unnecessary, but agree that the template is needed for the bold text case, and obviously needs to nowrap. Thanks for fixing this.
1126:
Not redundant; it uses a hair-space now. I am not wild about using weird spaces, and adding any space in any form is micro-managing normal HTML rendering.
910:
It was designed to address a specific purpose - and should only be used following italicized text. If it's used elsewhere, then it should be removed. ---
589:
634:
I think if we have to say something like {{'|bold=yes}} we might as well go back to what we're used to, which is the more self-explanatory <nowiki: -->
1285:, which does the exact same even if it stated with a grave accent instead of a real apostrophe and would require a redirection to this Template instead.
1166:
198:
1658:
Last time I used it because external renderer couldn't handle it. I had no idea this was using any kind of spacing or line-breaking fanciness.
1589:
and make it redirect here as well. No action has since been taken on any of these tempaltes but should be considered by an admin (e.g. by
1277:
right there, this seems to be an issue in a couple hundered/thousand sources. I would definetly suggest to just let the template use
1362:
259:
as wikicode with a link to the template page causes a very small link to click on. It would be better if the main template was at
342:
1492:
I've stopped using this template. It's a workaround for broken kerning in the browser, and doesn't really belong in our markup.
1165:. If this hair space is a zero-width space, then it seems to be responsible for placing all the articles using the template in
756:
717:
2126:
2005:
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to ensure that commas fit snugly under the last letter (at least in the browser of whoever last adjusts the template). —
2016:
Thanks for your help, Huntster, appreciate it. I have since edited the other issuing, non- or semi-protected templates.
866:
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to prevent overlap of italicized text and non-italicized apostrophe/single-quote, as per the above and discussion at
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327:
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Could an admin add the same snippet of code here? The template is protected, so I'm unable to do it myself. ---
496:) - without it, the apostraphe would "crash" with some italic letters that hung over to the right at the end.
2069:
1246:
1162:
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102:", while in the example #2 using the other template, this issue does not exist. See also the discussion at
1183:
The apostrophe template transcludes this string of characters (invisible characters shown in parentheses):
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the live versions of the cs1|2 templates are seeing the zero-width space. This is, I think fixed in
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1719:), you can see that the apostrophe is bolded as well, but shouldn't. With the code figured out on
590:
Knowledge talk:WikiProject Ships/Archive 10#FYI problems using apostrophe after an italicized name
586:
FYI: For reference, here are links to the archived earlier discussions on this from other boards:
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2023:
1999:
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Knowledge:Village pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 15#Modifying the apostrophe template, Template:'
1860:
If you disagree with any of the above, please state why. Else, please execute the task given.
1149:
437:
s. So we're discussing not using the templates on the Main Page, where 's often occurs after
395:
Template:' and template:'s generate a tiny bit of extra space before the apostrophe. Compare
692:
and use that for an apostrophe without an extra space? (It currently is just a redirect to
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might change it, as he edited the template recently what makes him an admin... I guess?
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This is one of the silliest templates I've seen in a while. I don't suppose we need a
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2017:
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for some comparisons between the sandbox and the main template. What do you think? —
696:
253:
ink) template (and other related templates) without surrounding it with <code: -->
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Knowledge:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Modifying the apostrophe template, Template:'
17:
1835:
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842:
489:
Actually, moving the discussion back to here so that there's a central location ...
464:
The extra space before the apostrophe is by design, it's not a bug - I'll reply at
374:
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Knowledge:Requested_moves&oldid=241198032
219:
142:
36:
962:
Please implement the above proposal, which has had no opposition. Code in sandbox.
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In example #1 using this template, the apostraphe crashes into the italicized "
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Toy. This is why we should keep the template. So here is what should be done:
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instead of a weird constallation of invisible spaces. This would then equal
1711:
I might just disagree here, as MediaWiki does not handle things like this:
1579:
should be changed to redirect here. To avoid extra confusion, also create
1723:
discussion as state above, it looks good in both cases, bold and italic:
303:
Am I missing something? Where's the actual benefit from this move? ---
300:, for use by those who might want to use {{tl|Apostrophe}} in links.
1991:, between myself and Lordtobi. Let me know if there are any issues.
372:
at 19:04, 26 September 2008 (UTC) in the uncontroversial section of
1463:
1225:{{cite book/new |title=Title{{'}}s got an apostrophe template}}
104:
WT:SHIPS#FYI problems using apostrophe after an italicized name
2057:
1554:. It fixes most issues and works perfectly fine. In addition,
965:
651:
method like you described ... all are potential options. ---
1652:
1290:{{cite book |title=Title{{'}}s got an apostrophe template}}
1201:{{cite book |title=Title{{'}}s got an apostrophe template}}
1275:
zero width space character in |title= at position 8 (help)
492:
The extra space was by design (see the above discussion
373:
1422:: I don't suppose you'd like to apply the same fix at
330:
as I believed that no one would object to the move. --
233:
This page was just moved as a result of a request at
1041:
That seems like an improvement to me. All the best:
551:(equivalent of using template with the space added)
535:(equivalent of using template with the space added)
235:
Knowledge:Requested moves#Uncontroversial proposals
280:seems that it would've been simpler to just have
521:(equivalent of using template without the space)
509:(equivalent of using template without the space)
2094:Surname should be "Menon" instead of "Menen"
1656:But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
838:I'm thinking now I'll do the same thing with
237:. Here's the text of the original request:
53:which is equivalent to what would work here:
8:
2054:Protected edit request on 21 January 2017
1167:Category:CS1 errors: invisible characters
267:would just be a shortcut. For example: {{
1187:‍(hair space)'(zero-width space)
494:template talk:'#italicized text crashing
1549:, we should replace this template with
1107:) seems to offer this function (return
557:look at other potential solutions. ---
354:I have moved this template back to ] .
145:may be a better place to discuss this.
131:Please follow the directions listed at
891:template with similarly imperceptible
7:
1295:Title's got an apostrophe template
933:Change style padding to hair space
25:
1843:<span class="db-bm93cmFw": -->
1752:<span class="db-bm93cmFw": -->
1566:<span class="db-bm93cmFw": -->
1551:<span class="db-bm93cmFw": -->
391:Extra space before the apostrophe
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1982:
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1569:(the same, just with an s), and
1381:
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548:'''''Kroonland'''''<span: -->
326:"Uncontroversial proposals" at
271:}} is hardly clickable while {{
1635:I have always used it because
1086:This template now redundant..?
941:Reduce transclude size by 95%.
385:05:33, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
364:05:29, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
348:21:58, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
320:20:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
1:
1341:19:19, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
1315:07:49, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
1269:07:35, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
1157:14:01, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
1121:10:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
1052:16:39, 20 October 2014 (UTC).
1009:02:46, 20 October 2014 (UTC).
872:21:55, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
519:'''''Kroonland''''''s
223:01:54, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
213:00:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
177:22:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
152:21:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
126:21:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
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2012:14:55, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
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1874:13:33, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
1676:13:16, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
1611:12:42, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
1502:12:32, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
1476:07:58, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
1255:19:07, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
1235:s got an apostrophe template
1211:s got an apostrophe template
1179:18:35, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
1076:22:04, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
1037:11:03, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
956:11:17, 22 August 2014 (UTC).
762:22:38, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
723:20:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
668:21:03, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
646:20:47, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
618:20:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
574:20:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
485:19:37, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
459:19:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
2088:to reactivate your request.
2076:has been answered. Set the
1195:Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox
992:to reactivate your request.
980:has been answered. Set the
447:User:Art LaPella#Apostrophe
443:User:BorgQueen#Apostrophe s
2149:
1411:03:54, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
1259:That looks great, thanks.
532:''Kroonland''<span: -->
1436:04:57, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
1426:? I just ran in to this.
1375:12:55, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
1283:the grave accent template
731:saying we're free to use
328:Knowledge:Requested moves
32:Recently, Sswonk created
1844:'s</span: -->
1567:'s</span: -->
1462:I just ran into this at
1357:Non-breaking space issue
927:03:53, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
905:22:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
727:Just got a message from
28:italicized text crashing
1753:'</span: -->
1644:toy " would break to "
1552:'</span: -->
769:(outdent) I just stole
549:'</span: -->
533:'</span: -->
507:''Kroonland'''s
275:}} is easily clickable.
195:'</span: -->
59:'</span: -->
1963:Yeah, they are/can. —
1163:User:Trappist the monk
1564:should be changed to
18:Template talk:'
1361:Per the discussion
466:User_talk:BorgQueen
368:The request was by
261:Template:Apostrophe
84:''Kroonland''{{'s}}
71:''Kroonland''{{'}}s
1651:" (something like
1146:should be merged.
254:and </code: -->
188:}} Please replace
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1247:Trappist the monk
1197:. Compare live:
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779:. Check it out:
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635:'</nowiki: -->
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377:Anthony Appleyard
356:Anthony Appleyard
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241:When using the {{
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64:See for example:
16:(Redirected from
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938:Simplify markup.
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894:negative margin
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1273:Well, it says
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1221:with sandbox:
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998:All the best:
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945:All the best:
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765:
764:
755:
716:
679:
678:
677:
676:
675:
674:
673:
672:
671:
670:
625:
624:
623:
622:
621:
620:
599:
598:
597:
592:
579:
578:
577:
576:
554:
553:
552:
536:
522:
510:
497:
490:
392:
389:
388:
387:
366:
351:
350:
277:
276:
230:
227:
226:
225:
182:
181:
180:
179:
96:
95:
94:
93:
81:
62:
61:
51:
50:
29:
26:
24:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
2145:
2134:
2128:
2125:
2122:
2117:
2111:
2108:
2107:
2106:
2105:
2101:
2097:
2087:
2084:parameter to
2075:
2071:
2067:
2060:
2059:
2053:
2049:
2045:
2041:
2037:
2031:
2027:
2021:
2015:
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2007:
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2001:
1996:
1989:
1980:
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1970:
1962:
1961:
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1955:
1949:
1943:
1922:
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1905:
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1865:
1859:
1854:
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1827:
1815:
1805:
1798:
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1783:
1773:
1766:
1763:
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1739:
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1736:
1729:
1714:
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1703:
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1700:
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1691:
1690:
1677:
1673:
1669:
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1657:
1653:
1650:
1649:
1643:
1637:''cats''' toy
1634:
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1630:
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1484:
1477:
1473:
1469:
1465:
1459:
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1447:
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1437:
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1429:
1425:
1421:
1418:
1417:
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1412:
1406:
1403:
1400:
1395:
1388:
1379:
1378:
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1372:
1368:
1364:
1356:
1342:
1336:
1333:
1330:
1325:
1318:
1317:
1316:
1312:
1306:
1300:
1296:
1287:
1284:
1272:
1271:
1270:
1266:
1262:
1258:
1257:
1256:
1252:
1248:
1244:
1236:
1228:
1227:
1223:
1222:
1220:
1212:
1204:
1203:
1199:
1198:
1196:
1192:
1185:
1184:
1182:
1181:
1180:
1176:
1172:
1168:
1164:
1160:
1159:
1158:
1153:
1142:
1132:
1125:
1124:
1123:
1122:
1118:
1114:
1113:Sardanaphalus
1106:
1099:
1085:
1077:
1074:
1073:
1072:
1064:
1056:
1055:
1049:
1048:
1045:
1040:
1039:
1038:
1035:
1034:
1033:
1025:
1019:
1014:
1013:
1012:
1006:
1005:
1002:
991:
988:parameter to
979:
975:
968:
967:
961:
960:
959:
953:
952:
949:
940:
937:
936:
932:
928:
922:
918:
913:
909:
908:
907:
906:
903:
902:CharlotteWebb
896:
895:
887:
876:
874:
873:
868:
862:
861:
844:
828:
827:
823:
817:
814:
813:
809:
801:
800:
796:
790:
787:
786:
782:
781:
780:
775:
763:
758:
750:
747:
737:
730:
726:
725:
724:
719:
711:
708:
698:
688:
681:
680:
669:
663:
659:
654:
649:
648:
647:
643:
639:
633:
632:
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630:
629:
628:
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619:
613:
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604:
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596:
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591:
588:
587:
585:
584:
583:
582:
581:
580:
575:
569:
565:
560:
555:
542:
541:
537:
526:
523:
516:
515:
511:
504:
501:
500:
498:
495:
491:
488:
487:
486:
480:
476:
471:
467:
463:
462:
461:
460:
456:
452:
448:
444:
440:
433:
427:
423:
412:s test's test
408:
402:
398:
390:
386:
382:
378:
375:
371:
367:
365:
361:
357:
353:
352:
349:
344:
340:
335:
334:
329:
324:
323:
322:
321:
315:
311:
306:
301:
296:
286:
274:
270:
266:
262:
258:
252:
248:
244:
240:
239:
238:
236:
228:
224:
221:
217:
216:
215:
214:
211:
208:
206:
200:
194:<span: -->
187:
186:Editprotected
178:
172:
168:
163:
159:
156:Submitted to
155:
154:
153:
150:
144:
137:
136:editprotected
130:
129:
128:
127:
121:
117:
112:
107:
105:
101:
89:
82:
76:
69:
68:
67:
66:
65:
58:<span: -->
56:
55:
54:
47:<span: -->
45:
44:
43:
38:
27:
19:
2093:
2085:
2070:edit request
1987:
1939:
1852:
1825:
1809:redirect to
1793:
1777:redirect to
1761:
1731:
1724:
1712:
1659:
1655:
1647:
1645:
1641:
1386:
1360:
1294:
1230:
1206:
1091:redundant..?
1089:
1067:
1066:
1062:
1042:
1028:
1027:
999:
997:
989:
978:edit request
946:
944:
893:
892:
880:
849:
837:
825:
824:
815:
798:
797:
788:
768:
745:
741:if we want.
706:
539:
538:
524:
513:
512:
502:
438:
431:
425:
421:
406:
400:
396:
394:
332:
302:
278:
250:
246:
232:
209:
202:
183:
108:
99:
97:
87:
74:
63:
52:
31:
1424:Template:'s
1093:Follow-up:
638:Art LaPella
451:Art LaPella
205:SMcCandlish
2078:|answered=
2074:Template:'
2040:Kendall-K1
1547:discussion
1532:Kendall-K1
1494:Kendall-K1
1458:Kendall-K1
1428:Kendall-K1
1288:This way,
1047:Farmbrough
1024:test cases
1004:Farmbrough
982:|answered=
951:Farmbrough
333:Lightsup55
285:Apostrophe
273:Apostrophe
265:Template:'
257:Template:'
218:Done. ---
1734:'
1727:'
1707:Hellknowz
1591:Hellknowz
1367:Parsecboy
1279:'
1109:'
1105:Template:
540:Kroonland
525:Kroonland
514:Kroonland
503:Kroonland
439:bold text
229:Page move
190:'
88:Kroonland
75:Kroonland
2116:Huntster
2019:Lordtobi
1995:Huntster
1947:Lordtobi
1942:Huntster
1863:Lordtobi
1600:Lordtobi
1528:Huntster
1526:editors
1468:Geekdiva
1454:Huntster
1452:editors
1420:Huntster
1394:Huntster
1324:Huntster
1304:Lordtobi
1161:Pinging
921:contribs
867:contribs
757:contribs
718:contribs
662:contribs
612:contribs
568:contribs
479:contribs
314:contribs
263:so that
249:emplate
171:contribs
148:Tiptoety
120:contribs
2110:Spn 123
2096:Spn 123
1831:Change
1740:Change
1148:-- ] {{
826:Example
816:Example
799:Example
789:Example
245:}} (or
220:RockMFR
210:‹(-¿-)›
141:, also
1730:Toy /
1639:-: -->
1103:(i.e.
729:Gnevin
468:. ---
441:. See
160:. ---
158:WP:VPM
2082:|ans=
2068:This
1969:KNOWZ
1913:KNOWZ
1799:Make
1767:Make
1715:Toy (
1713:Cats'
1668:KNOWZ
1642:cats'
1536:From
1464:Minsc
1261:DrKay
1231:Title
1207:Title
1171:DrKay
986:|ans=
976:This
912:Barek
811:{{'}}
784:{{`}}
743:Polit
704:Polit
653:Barek
603:Barek
559:Barek
517:'s =
505:'s =
470:Barek
305:Barek
162:Barek
143:WP:VP
111:Barek
2100:talk
2044:talk
1988:Done
1973:TALK
1967:HELL
1917:TALK
1911:HELL
1853:Done
1826:Done
1794:Done
1762:Done
1732:Cats
1725:Cats
1672:TALK
1666:HELL
1646:cats
1595:Czar
1530:and
1498:talk
1472:talk
1456:and
1432:talk
1387:Done
1371:talk
1363:here
1265:talk
1251:talk
1175:talk
1151:talk
1136:and
1117:talk
1063:Done
1044:Rich
1001:Rich
948:Rich
917:talk
877:Hmm…
697:void
658:talk
642:talk
608:talk
601:---
564:talk
546:s =
530:s =
475:talk
455:talk
445:and
432:test
426:test
422:test
416:test
407:test
401:test
397:test
381:talk
360:talk
310:talk
167:talk
116:talk
2080:or
2072:to
1841:to
1750:to
1654:).
1648:toy
1597:).
1593:or
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984:or
857:ana
749:zer
710:zer
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2086:no
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