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1247:, and new redesign needs to be discussed before it can be used over such many pages. The proposed new template, in my mind, is definitely poorer, both aesthetically and functionally. Aesthetically because the colours and the symbol are washed out, which leads to be it functionally less useable, as it's harder to view and navigate through the various groups in the template. Such a large change needs to be discussed before being changed. Regards, --
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background, so I removed the link to the toccolours css class. I think it would be best to solicit comments rather than simply putting the proposal up. Please let me know what you think. I notice that the edit box at the bottom seems to come from the
Tnavbar; I have no opinion on whether it should stay or go.
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I have gone back to the old version of the template which did not have a relative width of 25%. Having a relative width is not good practice for a number of reasons. One is that for users who have widescreen screens, the template becomes very wide, and not comparable to all other vertical templates
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Colour is what makes it distinctive, and makes the reader associate a template with a group of pages. The current colours are completely washed out. Having a standard template for all pages is not appropriate or desired, as you can notice from the wealth of different infoboxes for different sports.
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I noticed that there are two links on this that go th the same page: The
Guardian and Shoghi Effendi. Now I realize that here is that there was one Guardian, and he was Shoghi Effendi, but the Guardian and Shoghi Effendi were two distinct entities. In 'God Passes By' Shoghi Effendi didn't refer to
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I like the header graphic but otherwise much prefer the conservative space used in the current template. Honestly the primary revision of the template I'd contemplate is the ability to include page specific graphics - sometimes there is graphic on a page that would be nice rather than figuring out
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apologies. I was on the portal page as the most general place for a place to link the Baha'i Faith in fiction and the smallest most general corner at the bottom of the Baha'i Faith Series seemed to be that - until I found it was posted in dozens of pages (I thought you'ld have to go to the portal
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I agree that it's useful to have that information on Shoghi
Effendi's page, but perhaps there could be a new page for the sake of accuracy and a balance reached between the two. Neither needs to be terribly exhaustive. As far as attacks, there was a note that I agree with that was left on my talk
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Nescott, I'm sorry but I disagree with you. It sounds much better to have "the series", and since there is only one series there's no grammatical issue. Saying "a series" implies that there are multiple series about the Baha'i Faith. I think if we resolve the whole "series" issue and change the
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An excellent idea to separate these articles. Right on-point. I anticipate that this will likely generate controversy with OBF if it deals with the succession. May I suggest that you deal with that in the article by only addressing the office, not addressing succession in detail (perhaps merely
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that looks quite nice. As I did I made a few small changes to the text which I hope will more accurately describe the links to which they refer. It was difficult to find a color of yellow that was nice; at any rate, it seemed that the yellow would look better against a white rather than a gray
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Sorry to come in a bit late here, but I'm wondering about crimson (#DC143C), seeing as how we're the 'companions of the
Crimson Ark' and all. I suppose none of this color business is actually very important, but since we're on it I thought I'd add that. It may also be notable that, generally,
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Among Baha'is the usage would never be "Part of a series on Baha'i Faith." There will invariably be a definite article in this context: "Part of a series on the Baha'i Faith." Has there been a relevant discussion on the wording for this template that someone can point me to? Is there any
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in
Knowledge. Even if the width is set to a specific value such as 160px, by removing the precise breaks, many of the article links do not start nor end on a line, making the navigating of links more difficult, and not easier, in addition to making more cluttering to the look. Regards, --
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I made some changes to the template to make the colours parameters, but the line spacing of that template is just wrong, and this current template is just more readable and usable as way to navigate. Also based on comments on other templates you've tried to change such as
Hinduism and
1722:. Most summary statements of the religion do not mention the two individuals that are being added; only one goes into the topic in detail are those two individuals mentioned, and only in small passing. You can take Peter's Smith's "Introduction to the Baha'i Faith" published by
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page talking about it, but there is none. Instead of pushing your view of aesthetics on everyone, you should allow the template to have programmatically allowed colours for backgrounds and texts, so that the infrastructure you have created can be used appropriately. Regards, --
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how to get the two to share space nicely. I don't know if it's possible or others want it but that's what I spend a modest amount of time wrestling with. The interspersed dots distract especially at the end of a row of entries. The colorless sectional devisions might be nicer.
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to get a feel for what the Bahá'í community is like. Without deviating from the fact that this is an encyclopedia, how can we include relevant concepts, as opposed to mere information, that adequately convey the new culture being established in the global community?
533:, and instead say "Baha'i Faith topics" or "Topics on the Baha'i Faith". There was a big issue about using the word "series" because it's technically not correct. (a series is an ordered list, the correct word would be 'set') The other idea is to use either color in
487:. They're just ideas and can be set aside. I hope they don't make it difficult to reach consensus, and I personally am happy with the current template. I like all four colors, and the green in particular, although the green might lead to confusion with the series on
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While I've seen them, they are informal at best and strictly not "english equivalents". The "english equivalents" are the Book of
Certitude and the Most Holy Book, or the Book of Laws. As for their usage here, I think the encyclopedic usage would favor the more
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If I understand the comments so far, the consensus seems to be that the current look is a good one and that the proposal would not be an improvement. The comments have been helpful, and I'm grateful to those who have had an opportunity to look at the proposal.
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Thank you for a review with actual comments. I'm working on new colours for the background so hopefully that will be fixed soon (once the right colour is found). I can change text size right away. OIn teh third point what do you mean by real estate?
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state that the most common term (or in this case symbol) be used. Knowledge is not meant to be used as a way to push thought, but to follow, and since the nine-pointer star is what is generally used, that is the way
Knowledge follows. Regards, --
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My thoughts of the new design are that it's too busy, distracts the reader, and hides the links. The purpose of the template is a navigation template, and the new design precisely removes its usability by removing its simplicity. Regards, --
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page, and then go all the way to the bottom....) Anyway, I took it out after I saw that it was so often used.... Then I tried to figure out how to get it to show in the ..in fiction page and that still stumps me but it seemed a good idea.....--
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I understand what you mean. But I think explaining the guardianship under Shoghi
Effendi's page would be helpful because his page is pretty bare. And making a separate page might invite attacks. Remember its a sensitive issue.
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Remember, this is an encyclopedia, not a vehicle to promote the Baha'i Faith. When reliable third-party sources document a new culture, only then can information be changed to reflect that in a neutral fashion. Regards, --
1714:, there are some reversions here, which are disputed at best, so the discussion should happen here before we get into an edit war. The template is meant to be a summary of the main aspects of a religion as defined by
892:. Isn't that important enough? It is also an large and informative page with the Bahá'í category, which is now indirectly accessible on the Main Page by clicking through on the word 'Pilgrimage' in the
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Because it is the symbol that is most commonly used. Look at bahai.com, bahai.us, and generally any other Baha'i associated website, book, or otherwise, and the nine-pointed star is used. Knowledge
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Thanks for the explanation Cuñado. Jeff3000 I dont understand everyone obsession with colour changes. THe whole point of a standard template it to stop have so many random colours for each infobox.
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I think at this point, all of the choices are better than the current one (mainly because of the subheading font). I would just not pick green, as that is the Islam template cover. --
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there is a debate whether the template should advance to a new state of loveliness or stay in its original plain format, the new format wins out, if it is logical that is. There are
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Is there a reason why the nine-pointed star is the symbol for all of these articles? I understand that it is more commonly used but isn't the five-pointed star the official symbol?
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I had two reasons: one is that it made the template twice as wide as it was (a huge asthetic problem), and two is that those kinds of links usually go in the actual article.
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I really don't agree. The new template is completely too distracting. UI design across software GUIs and physical controls always tends towards simplicity. Regards, --
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I really don't like the edit box that was added to the bottom of the template. It takes up extra space and it's not really necessary. Would anyone object if I remove it?
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that a new look went through much discussion before one was decided upon and a newer design needs to go through the same sort of discussion to come to achieve consensus.
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So basically I think it would be ideal to link 'The
Guardian' to another or a new article about the Guardianship. Perhaps I'll do that in the next couple of minutes.
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I just found it odd that an english wikipeia has an arabic transliterated version of the name. But as you both are experienced editors, i will trust your judgement.
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pointing to the Will and Testament of `Abdu'l-Bahá), and directing further inquiry to Bahá'í divisions? Even with that you may still have to bird-dog the article.
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I've redone the Bahai template to make it more eye appealing and space saving. Please raise any objections of why the remake shouldn't be posted before removal.
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Okay, but 'Abdu'l-Bahá states that it is “obligatory” to visit these places “if one can afford it and is able to do so, and if no obstacle stands in one’s way”.
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I agree with the current version that Jeff3000 reverted to. It comes down to aesthetics and I think it looks much better, being skinnier and easier to read.
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I feel both these two are great, better than the current one. Both colours are fine, but if you want me to choose, let it be for the purple one on the left.
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If the template shall replace the current one, the colours used in the template should be programmable so that the colours can be maintained. Regards, --
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I suggest removing the list of teachings. In my opinion, it would make the template more NPOV, and there is already a link under "see also" for teachings.
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While many facts that are interesting from a historical perspective are in the Bahá'í pages, many individuals, especially college students, use the
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I have an idea, and it's just an idea. Actually two separate ideas. First, to solve the wording issue, we could re-format it to look like the
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Somehow I prefer the so-called fat star as well. I realize that the debate happened four weeks ago but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
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I added the pointy star to compare. I prefer the current, more pointy star. Also, the fatter star does not have a transparent background.
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Zoroastrianism, colours are important and your unilaterally trying to change everything is not gaining acceptance. Regards, --
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I hope you get my point. The so-called fat star has a lot more harmony in it. The current one looks somehow aggressive to me. --
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I'm not sure that it's necessary. I don't object, but do wonder why it'd be important. It's not a "pillar" of the religion.
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I don't see a problem with any of those. Although I like the shorter wording on the top "part of the series". Whatever.
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Baha'u'llah's books are printed in crimson, The Bab's in green, Abdu'l-Baha's in blue, and Shoghi Effendi's in brown. -
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Hi Jeff! Fat sounds funny ;-) Being fat is a matter of size. I would use it a little smaller than the current one. --
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or the series on Baha'i literature. In all four, more of a margin between the links and the border would be nice.
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himself regarding noteworthy historical developments, but rather to the Guardian as being the participator.
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Didn't realise that - it looked ok on my version. I've added the link to teh main BF article instead
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Is there a reason why Martha Root is on this template, and not for example Rúhíyyih Khanum?
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Thanks for the nice proposals, Jeff3000. The blue one has inspired four more possibilities:
441:. They are based on Modify's proposal, but have a smaller width, and different colours. --
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Hello everybody! Tastes differ. German and Russian Knowledge is using the "fat one":
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Sorry I didn't mean to be insultive. I should have left an explanation somewhere.
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I agree with Jeff3000. I definitely prefer the current template over this one.
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philosophy. You can see this taking place across all templates on Knowledge. --
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Hi! I prefer this star. IMO it is much more friendly than the other one. --
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545:. That way we could keep a theme running. I like the blue and the green.
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If Knowledge wanted standard templates for everything, there would be a
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Thank you for taking this on. MARussellPESE 17:56, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
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you need to get some better consensus before insisting on changing it.
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wording this won't be an issue. For something that has been around for
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This is about 50% wider than the original, so it sucks up real estate.
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Very poor contrast between "Baha'i" and the background in the title.
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Just so everyone can see this is what the template would look like;
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objection to adding "the"? I recall it being there at one point.
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519:. As for the cellspacing, I'm not sure which one is better. --
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Agree wiht Smkolins. The current wording is best. Regards, --
594:. If no one comments in the next day or so, I'll switch it. --
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Personally I think Martha Root played a more important role.
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I think, without a doubt, this template should be adopted. --
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Is there any basis to decide what any group is looking for?--
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Might I suggest someone also change the color and format of
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And just to boost the morale of the team promoting this,
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This star looks fat to me. I prefer the current one. --
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They look good. My favourite colour is the blue one in
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By real estate he means make it as skinny as you can.
110:. If you are new to editing Knowledge visit the
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590:Everyone ok with going with the blue one from
1303:{{Religion |religion = Bahá'í Faith |image =
346:to better understand why it's there. Thanks.
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511:. My favourite text at the beginning is at
870:in the 'See also' section. Any objection?
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32:does not require a rating on Knowledge's
515:. My favourite subheading fonts are at
342:Thank you for asking Cuñado, please see
223:Sounds like a smart guy, or maybe girl.
1128:Why Martha Root i.s.o. Rúhíyyih Khanum?
768:So far two to one for current star. --
399:of the template modeled on the one for
212:Let me know what you think about this.
114:to become familiar with the guidelines.
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437:Ok, how bout one of two templates at
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1791:NA-importance Bahá'í Faith articles
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38:It is of interest to the following
120:Knowledge:WikiProject Bahá'í Faith
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1746:Part of a series on Baha'i Faith
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1219:unilaterally redirected the
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257:Why has this been deleted?
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190:page that addresses this:
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1189:Manual of Style
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1064:too distracting
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87:Religion portal
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401:Zoroastrianism
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1234:Bahá'í Faith
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1444:Nice graphic
1434:
1399:|data19 =
1373:|data16 =
1355:|data13 =
1337:|data8 =
1319:|data4 =
1309:|data2 =
1265:
1241:WP:CONSENSUS
1215:
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1060:too colorful
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691:Current star
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357:'the' vs 'a'
320:
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275:
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117:Bahá'í Faith
112:welcome page
104:project page
100:Baháʼí Faith
93:
59:Bahá'í Faith
40:WikiProjects
29:
918:Baha'i page
1780:Categories
1716:notability
1706:Reversions
1435:Comments:
1243:over many
912:Activities
868:Pilgrimage
862:Pilgrimage
675:Other Star
108:discussion
1730:agreed --
1690:Someone65
1558:The Quill
1483:The Quill
1449:Negative:
1439:Positive:
1287:The Quill
1052:everytime
1001:consensus
986:Sikandros
822:Teachings
344:this talk
1763:Smkolins
1732:Smkolins
1676:Jeff3000
1661:Smkolins
1641:Jeff3000
1618:Jeff3000
1603:Smkolins
1578:Jeff3000
1497:Jeff3000
1249:Jeff3000
1198:Jeff3000
1083:Jeff3000
1015:Jeff3000
977:Bahá'í 2
953:Jeff3000
938:Smkolins
814:Smkolins
783:Iainsona
770:Jeff3000
707:Jeff3000
634:LambaJan
596:Jeff3000
575:Jeff3000
521:Jeff3000
443:Jeff3000
420:Jeff3000
348:Netscott
313:edit box
302:AndrewRT
259:AndrewRT
214:LambaJan
155:LambaJan
30:template
1659:formal.
1389:{{·}}
1381:{{·}}
1224:Bahá'í
1134:Wiki-uk
898:Wiki-uk
872:Wiki-uk
617:Wiki-uk
1753:modify
1525:Cuñado
1423:{{·}}
1419:{{·}}
1411:{{·}}
1407:{{·}}
1403:{{·}}
1393:{{·}}
1377:{{·}}
1363:{{·}}
1359:{{·}}
1323:{{·}}
1313:{{·}}
1266:Cuñado
1151:Cuñado
1101:Cuñado
1073:Enzuru
1056:always
1034:Enzuru
830:Cuñado
796:Mipago
761:Mipago
730:Cuñado
654:Cuñado
549:Cuñado
493:modify
457:Cuñado
430:modify
406:modify
370:Cuñado
321:Cuñado
276:Cuñado
227:Cuñado
168:Cuñado
36:scale.
1634:Width
489:Islam
364:years
28:This
1767:talk
1736:talk
1694:talk
1680:talk
1665:talk
1645:talk
1622:talk
1607:talk
1582:talk
1562:talk
1532:Talk
1529:☼ -
1501:talk
1487:talk
1469:talk
1291:talk
1273:Talk
1270:☼ -
1253:talk
1202:talk
1178:talk
1158:Talk
1155:☼ -
1138:talk
1108:Talk
1105:☼ -
1087:talk
1019:talk
990:talk
957:talk
942:talk
927:talk
923:Leif
842:Talk
755:and
742:Talk
666:Talk
561:Talk
483:and
469:Talk
382:Talk
333:Talk
288:Talk
239:Talk
180:Talk
1431:}}
418:--
1782::
1769:)
1738:)
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1682:)
1667:)
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1471:)
1293:)
1255:)
1237:}}
1231:{{
1227:}}
1221:{{
1204:)
1180:)
1140:)
1089:)
1062:,
1021:)
992:)
980:}}
974:{{
959:)
944:)
929:)
839:-
759:--
739:-
663:-
650:?
558:-
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1289:(
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42::
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