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342:, contact, and exchange during this period; that the written record of such contacts records only a fraction of what actually occurred; and that there was awareness of Asian printing in Europe in the centuries before Gutenberg.... as Eva Hanebutt-Benz properly observes, “We do not know if Johannes Gutenberg had any kind of knowledge of the fact that long before his invention printing with moveable type was done in East-Asia.”
2123:"All of the animals that have been carefully observed...have all displayed the national characteristics of the observer. Animals studied by Americans rush about frantically, with an incredible display of hustle and pep, and at last achieve the desired result by chance. Animals observed by Germans sit stiff and think, and at last evolve the solution out of their inner consciousness." ]
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had doubled to 28K, with 16 citations (up from 6). I dare say the language was far more crisp than the present version. 12 new citations had been added by me, to document a range of details about his life, and subsections on his printing press, the court case he lost, his later life. I also added
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However, there were key differences between the
European technologies and that in Korea. Gutenberg used a press, unlike in East Asia, oil-based inks, and other devices that were significantly different. Whatever the facts regarding Asian influences in this invention, there can be no doubt about
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What is certain, however, is that printing with movable wooden type is documented from the eleventh century; that printing with movable metal type had been an active enterprise in Korea since 1234; that other printing technologies had Asian origins and were subsequently transmitted to the West; that
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Mukerjee, you've done it again. A huge wide-ranging edit of all sections, each edit apparently designed to make sure that
Gutenberg doesn't get much if any credit for his invention... I reverted the lot because it was impossible to see what all to consider based on the huge diff. Try again, piece by
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ADAG group flagship company
Reliance Communications was named in February 2011 for having provided favours to DMK minister A. Raja and others in exchange for a hugely discounted spectrum license in the 2G scam. The company was chargesheeted in April 2011, and senior VP Surendra Pipara, VP Hari Nair,
39:
In my long history at
Knowledge (XXG), I rarely reverted anyone. I feel that if the other person has added content, some form of it deserves to be there. So I usually edit parts of their content into my text. I feel this type of editing is more in the interests of Knowledge (XXG). However, there
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A month after a talk page debate, and seemingly accepting the change and making some edits on the enlarged version, the earlier editor suddenly reverted to his months-old version, claiming that consensus had not been reached. I did not wish to continue the war, so wikipedia now has an impoverished
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Another thing that surprises me is the extent to which we editors remain attached to our "public-domain" text. Knowledge (XXG) policy (pillar three) clearly says that all text "will be mercilessly edited". But in practice, we all have our egos, which is part of why we work on wikipedia. In fact,
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Also I feel that tags should be restricted. There are too many tagging editors in
Knowledge (XXG), who specialize in tags such as "uncategorized" or "poorly written", "has no article linking it" etc. What I don't understand is why they don't just add the categories or some citations themselves.
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Shankaran is a retired naval officer and the nephew of the wife of
Admiral Arun Prakash. At the time of the leak, Prakash was head of the Indian navy. ... Ravi's mother, Malati Shankaran, was the admiral's wife's sister. As the admiral's nephew (and as a retired navy officer) Ravi Shankaran was a
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I couldn't agree more. However, this prejudice that Clark is talking about is more idiosyncratic rather than sectarian, it is more of an intellectual bias which is of a personal nature, which makes the writing that bit more interesting. After all, among the authors of the eleventh edition was
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valiantly defended my 4K-ish edits (with lots of citations) from being reverted. But eventually others un-edited it bit by bit. However, over time, it became clearer that Oak was indeed a fraud, and the edit battles quietened down, and I was able to re-edit it to get in the substance of of my
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had a similar table of winning candidates. In fact, the new table compared the new results with the old, constituency by constituency, which was very painstakingly done, since most of the election areas had changed after a population reassessment, all of which i had documented with citations.
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I started on
Knowledge (XXG) in May 2004, and had some 4,200 edits upto 2013, when I semi-retired. Most of my edits are large-scale text changes, often "merciless" makeovers of poorly-organized articles. I usually try to preserve earlier facts, but add new matter - usually with tons of online
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Since the use of printing from movable type arose in East Asia well before it did in Europe, it is relevant to ask whether
Gutenberg may have been influenced, directly or indirectly, by the Korean or Chinese discoveries of movable type printing, or their earlier discoveries of block printing.
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In particular, a section I had added, _Was
Gutenberg influenced by East Asian printing_, was vehemently opposed for demeaning Gutenberg's "invention". It was removed many times, and others kept bringing it back, saying it was relevant and had been agreed on on the talk page.
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Bertrand
Russell, whose History of Western Philosophy reflects extremely personal views bordering on cantankerousness (e.g. against Aristotle), which one reads with abandonment and delight. It is Russell who produced this wry comment contrasting Animal Behaviour studies by
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After many wikipedia battles, these days I rarely track the articles I edited, though I keep getting notices that some article I had created is slated for "speedy deletion" or whatever. Fortunately, in most situations other editors find the sense not to delete these.
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are very few editors who bother to edit text. There are too many reverters. Supposing I make a 2000 char edit, even if some part is not to your liking, it would not be appropriate to revert the whole thing. But this is an everyday occurrence here...
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of Central Asia, whose written script was adopted for the Mongol script. There has been considerable conjecture whether some news of this technology, if not printed samples, had reached Europe, e.g. in this article by Tom Christensen :
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suggests that "European block printers must not only have seen Chinese samples, but perhaps had been taught by missionaries or others who had learned these un-European methods from Chinese printers during their residence in China."
1526:- I had put in a "allegation of links with Massimo Quattrocchi" - with several sources, but this whole section was edited out mysteriously along with another citation suggesting that she may have met Robert Vadra at the
542:
Today, looking around at editors from my early days, I realize I am somewhat of a survivor on wikipedia; while dozens of old-timers are still around, hundreds of other editors seem to have given up and disappeared.
176:. Movable type was documented in China four centuries before Gutenberg, and an iron printing press in Korea two centuries back. Thus, calling Gutenberg the "inventor of movable type" seemed like eurocentricism.
485:, and even the editors who had sided with me earlier agreed on this, I thought I would simply stop editing on wikipedia. Though I came back later, i haven't edited any article related to printing since then.
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I find revert wars and firefights very draining. Quite often one comes across revert tsars, who feel they own an article, and keep reverting well-researched content along with lots of inline citations.
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rule exists, but needs to be strengthened. In any event, I would rather add content than go into the elaborate conflict-resolution process of wikipedia decision-making to get reverts fixed or whatever.
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Since this event in 2012, I have more or less withdrawn from Knowledge (XXG). Whereas I used to create tens of articles every month, I edit now only when I am really impelled towards a topic.
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with a nuanced discussion on the lack of detail and questions raised about whether JG's types were made from reusable moulds. Five years on, most of my text in these sections still remain.
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a German goldsmith and inventor who was believed to have invented the technology of printing with movable types in 1447, but it turns out this technology was known in Korea at least in 1234.
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At the time when I started editing, the Johannes Gutenberg article becamme very active - about 100 edits per month. From Oct 1 to Oct 18, the article had grown by 0.7KB to 14.6KB. In my
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I feel that the revert rules should restrict reverts to malicious or hijack attempts. Serious edits, with "good faith" content should be re-edited into the text, and NEVER deleted. This
234:. I even went to the village pump arguing that histories of technology could not be Euro-centric. Eventually I got the title of that article changed to "history of western typography".
1481:- Indian pseudo-historian who is very popular in Hindutva sites. In 2007, my first edits, citing lots of sources that called him "Professor" PN Oak, were heavily attacked by users like
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khanates) stretched from Korea to Europe through much of the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, facilitating cross-cultural exchange across a large region; that there was considerable
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I am not going back to edit the article, but i feel that some of what i had said then would still enrich the article, so i am quoting here what I had on my last-ever JG edit, from
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What I find particularly irritating is how revert tsars do not bother to edit the document but simply revert out large swathes of content. This has happened to me repeatedly.
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Thus it posits Gutenberg as an "user" of movable type, not as its "inventor". This is the very point is one on which I had fought my bitterest battle on wikipedia, in 2007.
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Then I went on to re-edit the entire article, added many parts to the sections on life, removed random speculations - etc. I was supported by some of the editors (e.g. DGG).
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11:18, October 19, 2006 Mukerjee m (18,290 bytes) (reverted to Mukerjee Oct 18. Please address the issues on the talk page and MERGE the changes; don't blindly revert) (undo)
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I did not agree with the view of "inventing X in Europe". I mean, how should there be as many inventors as there are regions in the world? But this was the consensus then.
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Johannes Gensfleisch zur Laden zum Gutenberg was a German goldsmith and inventor who achieved fame for his invention of the technology of with (sic) movable types during 1447.
95:, an entire section on "2G Spectrum Scam Arrests and Chargesheets" was anonymously deleted, along with 12 citations. The removed summary paragraph will tell you why:
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http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0802081797&id=KXoaalwyOjAC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=korea+gutenberg+surviving&sig=4QBhy9ty1jbXJASJcUzFBDfKbGo
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stretched from Korea to Damascus and Kiev, and movable type printing radiated westward out of Korea. Among the people known to have used movable type are the
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calling it "Printing in Asia and in Europe", and added many details documenting East Asian priority in inventing printing. The edit was promptly reverted:
1339:* - Supreme court judge who had the integrity to dissent the taking away of Habeas Corpus during the Emergency; he was subsequently superceded for CJI by
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Must reflect what the author might have said had he been with us today. Translation is a shift, not only in language (space), but also in time.
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by the most rabid of the three editor i was debating. Along with this section, more than a quarter of the article's citations were deleted.
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I am not sure if my rants about it on this talk page may have contributed to this reassessment - though most likely its just l'air du temps.
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1382:* - Indian politician was minister in Mayawati govt; forced to resign after allegedly murdering a policeman; created page 7K w 12 refs
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By then it was well-known that movable type and printing in China pre-dated Gutenberg by several centuries, and these ideas may have
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were printed with the movable metal type in 1234. The oldest surviving book printed with movable type is from Korea, dated 1377.
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and group MD Gautam Doshi were arrested for bribery and denied bail. Anil Ambani visited the executives in Tihar jail in June.
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page today. I found that the lead does not refer to him as "inventor of printing". After some poorly constructed language,
183:, I added 4K of text, 10 citations from three new references, re-did the entire lead and almost every part of the article.
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23:. Has been recorded in perfect mimicry of the calls of several species. Occasionally nests in rafters of inhabited houses.
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But when a large chunk of an associated edit in the History of Typography article was removed to create a new article on
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and several anonymous ids, possibly because they believed in him, or maybe they were hindutva believers. For some time,
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Johannes ... was a German goldsmith and inventor credited with inventing movable type printing in Europe (ca. 1450).
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Also, I have often found other editors who have battled the revert wars on my edits. I can cite the article on
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I kept up a lone battle, fighting half a dozen editors on the talk page, and in related articles such as the
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05:23, October 19, 2006 Dicklyon (14,622 bytes) (rv; too much of a change to do without discussion) (undo)
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wikipedia policy realizes this, which is why one informs the article creator and others about big changes.
1433:- 14th c. indian inventor of infinite series, the basis of calculus, two centuries before Newton or Leibniz
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Tsien, Tsuen-Hsuin (1985). "part one, vol.5". In Joseph Needham, Science and Civilisation in China, (ed.).
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Today, I sometimes forget I had edited a page and it is startling to recognize my text while browsing.
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which assumes that information can be made memorable only when it is slightly coloured by prejudice.
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original changes. It is still being defended by Barlow, but attacks appear to be less frequent.
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This question is particularly relevant since it is becoming increasingly accepted that European
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Baek Sauk Gi (1987). Woong-Jin-Wee-In-Jun-Gi #11 Jang Young Sil, page 61. Woongjin Publishing.
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1646:- noted Hindustani music composer; although Muslim, composed many Hindu devotional songs
1235:- one of India's most influential bilingual poets (Marathi-English) (major edits, image)
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Most recently, I introduced, in one go, a long table with 403 winning candidates in the
2016:
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On Feb 8, 2007, the entire section on _influence of East Asian printing_
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1500:- Kerala school mathematician, discovered the Taylor Series expansion of
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1299:, he ruled for 16 years while the death of the Dalai Lama was kept hidden
1283:* - Indian amateur mathematicians who has several numbers named after him
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1259:- or does his memory really reconstruct himself as a holocaust survivor?
439:"Did East Asian Printing Traditions Influence the European Renaissance?"
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I also contribute to the বাংলা wikipedia
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is still keeping the wolves at bay (hats off to your perseverance!).
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Let's raise a glass to fun-to-read idiosyncratic writing, within the
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1536:* - Indian children's book illustrator, author of "Tiger on a tree"
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His usage of movable type printing started the Printing Revolution.
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Why Knowledge (XXG) "revert" policies don't help Knowledge (XXG)
1451:- 20th c. Turkish woman poet - details of poetry w quote + refs
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version without any list of winning candidates. You can use
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Mysore Palace. Image taken at dusk during Dasara festival 2006
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dynasty of Korea and is associated with Chae Yun-eui (around
1603:- Indian fusion musician from the Imdadkhani gharana, son of
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The British Library Guide to Printing: History and Techniques
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Similarly the article on Indian navy secrets leak accused
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Movable types made from clay were introduced in China by
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Goryeo Dynasty: Korea's Age of Enlightenment, 918–1392
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It must be the last encyclopædia in the tradition of
1349:* - major indian stock market scamster from the 1950s
305:. Cast metal movable type was introduced during the
1579:- Islamic scholar and first multi-cultural historian
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was derived from processes perfected in China. In
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133:. It was about half the article. The page for the
91:But many other edits are quietly reverted. e.g. in
546:And people wonder what causes "wikipedia fatigue"(
249:The lead sentence after my last nov 27 edit went:
460:Gutenberg: How One Man Remade the World with Word
244:Gutenberg's method of printing with movable type
196:Printing: the Invention of Movable Type in Europe
259:Was Gutenberg influenced by East Asian printing?
1333:* - Indian biologist and popular science writer
1076:Cet utilisateur peut contribuer avec un niveau
217:But I kept getting reverted with remarks like:
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877:List of languages by number of native speakers
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113:regular invitee to the Arun Prakash's house .
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1370:- added details and refs related to marriage
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152:A sad wiki war narrative: Johannes Gutenberg
1412:* - Indian English poet and advertising man
1043:Este usuario puede contribuir con un nivel
381:) CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (
52:It takes nearly as much time, I would say!
1656:, she is currently an MLA in Uttar Pradesh
548:volunteers log off as wikipedia ages, WSJ
1427:- complete re-do of lead and other parts
367:. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
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56:Attachment to our own text on wikipedia
1612:- Indian classical singer, student of
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1597:- Indian historian, editor and author
1406:- noted Indian conservation zoologist
515:After many years, I chanced upon the
423:, London: The British Library, 1998 [
108:, someone has deleted the sentences
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1726:singers from the turn of the century
1672:- major poet in the Bhakti tradition
1355:- stock market scamster from the 90s
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775:Category:Indian criminal-politicians
145:if you need to see the candidates.
118:Semi-retirement from Knowledge (XXG)
93:Reliance Anil Dhirubhai Ambani Group
1520:- 19th c. pioneering bengali author
1311:* - Indian politican killed in the
441:. Arts of Asia Magazine (to appear)
1552:- childhood - rift between parents
1253:- powerful Algerian woman novelist
1247:* - Indian English poet and critic
409:. San Francisco: Asian Art Museum.
265:History of typography in East Asia
14:
1361:* - wife and proxy candidate for
511:Revisiting Gutenberg October 2011
377:: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
283:Science and Civilization in China
194:I completely re-did the section
45:Knowledge (XXG):Assume good faith
1722:* - one of the most influential
1682:, son of politician billionaire
1175:Degrees of freedom (engineering)
952:This user can contribute with a
483:History of printing in East Asia
1696:author; charged with plagiarism
1514:- psychologist working on lying
1277:- Islamic scholar (name change)
1241:- retired chief of Naval staff.
781:Central Bureau of Investigation
2092:Kenneth Clark, writing of the
1315:; created page w 10K w 12 refs
787:Golden Quadrangle Road Network
34:
1:
862:History of the Hindi language
2094:1911 Encyclopædia Britannica
1475:commission, created w 5 refs
1388:* - Telugu poet and feminist
865:Indo-Pakistani Sign Language
313:). A set of ritual books,
135:Uttar Pradesh Elections 2007
131:Uttar Pradesh elections 2012
1170:Mathematics, Science, Logic
686:Radio France Internationale
437:Thomas Christensen (2007).
28:citations, esp for BOLP.
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1827:Hemanta Kumar Mukhopadhyay
1558:- details on his six wives
1331:Gopal Chandra Bhattacharya
583:Black-winged Cuckoo-shrike
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1961:Veerapandiyan Kattabomman
1905:Otto Pfister (naturalist)
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237:Within a month (nov 18),
2056:Nawabgunj Bird Sanctuary
1921:Rafael Leónidas Trujillo
1678:- convicted murderer of
1457:* - the MP who overcame
778:Category:Indian mobsters
729:Blood In The Water match
462:(2002) pp.166-7, Wiley,
405:Kim, Kumja Paik (2003).
186:My lead sentence went:
1893:Narendra Kumar Kushwaha
1881:Maulana Abul Kalam Azad
1796:Christian Baldensberger
1471:* - details of role in
1431:Madhava of Sangamagrama
1245:Arvind Krishna Mehrotra
883:List of writing systems
732:List of largest empires
586:Blue-headed rock thrush
538:Knowledge (XXG) Fatigue
1792:Chhatrapal Singh Lodha
1704:Chief Justice of India
1700:Yogesh Kumar Sabharwal
1652:* - wife of politican
1638:Talwinder Singh Parmar
1621:- religious saint and
1577:Rashid-al-Din Hamadani
1562:Rao Shiv Bahadur Singh
1504:four centuries before
1498:Parameshvara Namboodri
1425:Lasantha Wickrematunge
1416:Khondaker Mostaq Ahmad
1295:- possibly the son of
1208:Spherical trigonometry
915:Sapir–Whorf hypothesis
880:List of sign languages
841:Agglutinative language
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817:University of calcutta
750:Salesians of Don Bosco
636:Ultramarine Flycatcher
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1820:Harcharan Singh Balli
1799:Dara Singh (murderer)
1785:Bimal Krishna Matilal
1544:Raghuraj Pratap Singh
1376:- Indian woman lawyer
1263:Bimal Krishna Matilal
1193:Magnetic capacitivity
1162:Search user languages
935:Knowledge (XXG):Babel
921:Valency (linguistics)
871:Linguistic Relativism
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701:Taranga (Jain Temple)
579:Black-throated Weaver
559:= new article created
334:a single empire (the
315:Sangjong Gogeum Yemun
232:History of Typography
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1731:Before 2007
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1079:élémentaire
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830:Linguistics
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677:Mahishasura
574:* (+Photo)
499:was deleted
458:Man, John,
349:renaissance
74:User:Meters
2151:Categories
1993:Beit Lahia
1987:Ballygunge
1958:Vachaspati
1869:Kumarapala
1806:Dinesh Das
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905:Sakatayana
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662:Durga Puja
445:2006-10-18
297:, between
242:a section
222:piece... (
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2157:User en-5
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895:Morphemic
629:Sand Lark
627:(+Photo)
610:Hill Myna
591:(+Photo)
572:Bank Myna
373:cite book
82:P. N. Oak
72:(thanks,
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1775:Bao Ninh
1654:DP Yadav
1479:P.N. Oak
1085:français
1018:भाषा का
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909:Sanskrit
889:Metonymy
838:Abahatta
766:BMW case
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554:Articles
521:it reads
295:Bi Sheng
84:, where
80:) or on
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2002:Bithoor
1857:Juvayni
1716:suicide
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1052:español
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814:Tandoor
805:Jainism
721:History
649:Bansuri
644:Culture
427:online]
326:Uighurs
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1996:Bengal
1982:Places
1952:Uljetu
1816:Gopala
1694:Malian
1644:Tansen
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1147:分かりません
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735:Merkit
710:Thumri
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307:Goryeo
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2029:Kalpi
2011:Delhi
1463:Siwan
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