User:Rachel Thorn/Sandbox 1

205:." In fact, I think Hagio actually said something just like that to me once.) Shoujo manga featuring male protagonists were the exception, and (with the exception of BL) are still rare today. I'm afraid this paragraph as it is gives a distorted and confusing picture of shoujo manga. For every shoujo manga featuring a male protagonist ("The Heart of Thomas", etc.) I could name 50 or more popular manga from the same period featuring a female protagonist ("Aim for the Ace!", etc.) For this section, I was picturing something more along the lines of 1) how public perceptions of shoujo manga evolved, 2) how the meaning of shoujo manga to readers has evolved, 3) how shoujo manga may have affected society (always a tricky question), 4) how shoujo manga have reflected society over the years and 5) how social changes have affected the industry. Fujimoto is a great source for this, as the title of her first book ("Where Do I Belong?: The Shape of the Heart as Reflected in Girls' Comics") implies. Yonezawa, in his writings on the history of shoujo manga, talks about how it was transformed from a belittled genre to a respected one, mostly thanks to the 24 Year Group. And my own work talks about the place of manga in the lives of Japanese girls and women. 2789:

rights of this sort of scum. Seriously, I wish they would die." In his "excitement" he seems to be conflating yaoi and its fans/creators. According to the blogger (who is apparently himself a gay man--it's not real clear), Satoh's rhetoric had mellowed considerably by the time the ronsou ended four years later. The blogger says that shortly after this ronsou, one of the Satoh's main grievances--the lack of information about real-life homosexuality available to young men and boys--was solved by the growth of the Internet. I think this is true. Juné may outsell Badi, but just Google "gay" (ゲイ) and all the top hits are precisely the sort of sources of information Satoh was hoping for. BL websites hardly even use the word "gay," let alone "douseiai" (homosexuality). It's not a completely dead issue, it seems, but I don't see any sign of the kind of anger that sparked Satoh's first tirade. If I find anything that looks like it might be a useful source, I'll add it here, but I think we have all we need. Oh, Malkinann, I made a minor change to your zine/minikomi, because I thought it might be a bit confusing as it was.

2008:

fit, Malkinann. There are literally dozens (possibly hundreds, if you include stuff in languages other than Japanese and English) of scholarly and semi-scholarly articles on the subject, many of them variations on the same themes. Personally, I think 90% of them are crap. I think it's enough to introduce a few, just to show what kind of things are being said, and to demonstrate that this has "merited" scholarly attention (which, if nothing else, could help students who want to write papers on the subject and need some references to justify it to skeptical teachers/profs). Timothy, I'm not sure what you mean by the "debate" material, but I think anything to make the article a smooth, well-structured read is defnitely welcome. BTW, I found myself checking out books on "fujoshi" on Amazon.co.jp today, and was surprised to find that virtually all of them (and there were at least five or six) were very poorly reviewed. It seems the definitive (or even just decent) book on the subject has yet to be written, in any language.

2178:(BL新日本史, "BL New History of Japan") that may or not prove to be a useful reference. It was published in 2006, and is a history of Japan through the lens of BL. It seems to be a history of male homosexuality in Japan, but perhaps focusing more on specific individuals and relationships, and certainly not academic. There are plenty of books about male homosexuality in Japanese history, but this is the first I've ever seen that has a contemporary BL angle. It has three reviews, all four stars, and all fairly coherently written, so, without hesitation, I ordered the book. It was only after I confirmed the order that I noticed there were really cheap used copies available. Damn. I had assumed it was a new book, since it just appeared on my recommended list today. And now I'm sitting here wondering how many heterosexual, middle-aged men in the world (of any nationality), besides me, would have this book recommended to them by Amazon. Food for thought. (-_-;) Anyway, I'll report on it once I've read it. 2751:

to such criticisms. This is very different from the Anglophone Slash community, which has long been hyper-sensitive (and hyper-defensive) about the "slash vs. real-life homosexuality" issue. I was living in Japan for much of the time this ronsou was supposed to be taking place, and regularly interacting with BL fans and creators, and never heard it mentioned. (Come to think of it, I can't remember where I first heard of it.) I would ask fans/creators about the relationship between BL and real-life gay men, and, to a person, they invariably responded, "This is just a woman's fantasy; it has nothing to do with real-life gay men." But setting aside parodies, which are inherently "fantastic," there have long been examples of shounen-ai/yaoi/BL that have tried to be more realistic, and I think that is particularly true today. I think it's enough to mention the criticism from some gays, and a representative response. This is not something, I think, that we want to spend more than two sentences on.

2550:. The "masturbation fantasies" sentence seems awkward (even given its subject matter... -_-*) I think it's important to note that Satou implied that the market is so saturated with BL that it's hard for a young, questioning or closeted gay man in Japan to find images of, for and by gay men. A couple of things that didn't get mentioned in the "article version" were that Kurihara is also a feminist - after her realisation, she describes herself as having taken a flame thrower to her mind, burning out the vestiges of her interest. Also, the yaoi fans were like, 'I see how you could get offended, but we like our freedom of thought, and censorship would be repressive and bad - we don't always like thinking about straight sex'. Another thing that didn't get into the yaoi article was that Satou developed an interest in women's issues, and he started his own minikomi, and they all lived happily ever after, The End.- 3089:

the Japanese fans I've known have never framed it in a political way. As for Net access, for the young Japanese Satoh seemed most concerned with, it's practically universal. Even kids who don't have Net access at home (a small minority these days, I think) have access to it elsewhere, and certainly know how to make use of it. Virtually all cell phones in Japan allow users to access the Web. Compared to even ten years ago, information about homosexuality, and most importantly information about local gay communities, is incredibly easy to come by. As for your last questions, I think the answers are "yes," "yes," and "yes," unless you think it should be done some other way. The debate does not, I believe, merit it's own section, because it really was (as far as both the BL community and gay community were concerned) a tempest in a teapot.

2655:

mainstream." From McHarry's paper - "Sato's complaint is not devoid of merit. To a young Japanese boy beginning to realize same-sex erotic desires, bishōnen are perhaps the only visual representation of same-sex desiring males in the mass media, save for the transvestite entertainers favored by television and the gender-ambiguous members of some J-pop bands. Japanese boys are well aware of bishōnen since boys' love manga such as BeBoy can be bought at convenience stores in even small towns, according to Iwamoto. But to my mind, this is better than the invisibility or homophobia of much of the North American mainstream media. And for the (presumably) subset of same-sex desiring boys who identify as bishōnen and/or desire them as sexual objects, perhaps they feel fortunate." -

2671:

homosexuality in society (Japan and elsewhere) and is not about yaoi or BL manga. For example, one could say that shampoo ads on television also "drown out" representations and portrayals of gay men, but those ads are not aimed at gay men -- they're aimed at women. I don't think it's particularly fruitful to stray too far into questions about how gay men are and are not portrayed in the media, including cartoon media. To put it differently, we run the risk of changing the subject if we drift too far in the direction McHarry is taking. McHarry's concerns are legitimate in their own contexts, but I don't see that context as dealing centrally or integrally with yaoi or BL.

387:-- I think we want to say that it exists. In contrast to an academic paper that draws only generalized conclusions, this article can include unique cases, or if not unique then not commonplace, especially if they were, as Matt says, "shocking." Off-hand, I would suggest that part of what was shocking was a breach in one or another kind of public/private barrier, because certainly unwanted pregnancies were occurring in Japan and being dealt with privately (I can cite references another time). So what we're seeing here is the entree of something widely familiar (unwanted pregnancy and of course abortion) into a public and popular medium. So even if 2583:- using "magazine" implies a glossy to me. The only way I can think of improving the "masturbation fantasies" sentence is "Satō also accused yaoi fans of co-opting gay men as masturbation fantasies, arguing that these portrayals created self-esteem problems for real gay men who did not fit the youthful image of good looks and wealth." I really got the impression that Satou took offense at the sheer volume of yaoi as well, as it drowns out gay representations of gay men - It's almost like a gay man might not believe he is gay, and might not come out, because he's not bishonen? - 76:

explore themes of hardships associated with being female. (p. 247) A study by Suzuki suggests that around 80% of girls' manga in the early 1970s was formulaic girl-meets-boy romance. (p. 247) Realistic girls' manga of this time would portray an independent girl being in an equal romance with a boy, but losing this equality once she has an unwanted pregnancy. Suzuki suggests that this is part of the reason that heroines were discarded by writers in order to explore equality in relationships without the spectre of pregnancy. (p.248-249)

499:(1976) was even more controversial. The editor (Junya Yamamoto) took serious heat from the suits on that one, but stood by Takemiya and refused to even pressure her to tone it down. The danger in spending too much space on these works, though, is is that it gives the impression that these radical works were (and are) representative of shoujo manga as a whole, when what they really represent is the diversification of content, form, and theme that took place when women artists took over the field. "Playing with dolls" is brilliant. That 1583:. She seems like one of those freelance scholars who teaches/works all over the place, but doesn't have a single "home base." Her work looks quite interesting. I'm thinking about buying the book that includes the Suzuki chapter, but even if I buy the cheapest copy I could find on Bookfinder.com, the shipping costs are enough to give me pause. My bookshelf is overflowing as it is, and the last thing I want is another academic anthology that is 80% crap. (-_-;) I'll see if the Kyoto Prefectural Library has a copy. 2027:, (although "dispute" might be better) which covers a period in Japanese yaoi fan history where gay activists began to notice and take offense at yaoi. Tim, please go ahead and incorporate "Debate" (and "Appeal"? please??) in the "Critical attention" section - I fear that I've used excessively emotive language (^_^;) to describe the debate. Incorporating the debate section in 'critical attention' may also make it easier to briefly touch upon the similar debates in the English-speaking fandom. - 176:, which is known as the first really popular sports manga in shoujo manga, but is otherwise, well, pretty goofy. Tetsuya Chiba's shoujo manga from the late 1950s and early 1960s feature wonderful, strong heroines. Then there's the question of what constitutes "formulaic girl-meets-boy romance." Depending on your measuring stick, you could argue that 80% of shoujo manga still fit that description. As for unwanted pregnancy, I know of only one quite famous example from 1970-71, Yumiko Ōshima's 2092:"original research") "mummy issues" (Suzuki, page 259) - "...it is interesting to find Yaoi comics repeatedly describing extremely negative images of mothers" (going on to say that the characters find an unconditional love, like that of a mother's, in the arms of a yaoi man.) Then there's Kinsella's equation of yaoi girls with lolicon guys and saying that both groups are all such social misfits that we can only find love within a manga page. - 1818:

Sakakibara is herself a fan, but 99% of fans think her theory is nuts. Finding published or otherwise recorded statements by fans that we can reference would probably be difficult, though not impossible. And since I think this article is primarily about the yaoi phenomenon in Japan, I would be wary of referencing statements by non-Japanese fans (except in a section on reception outside of Japan), since I think the rationales given are

3429:

been including them in footnotes, although I've gotten a little slack with removing them as of late. I know it's not classically what one does with a further reading section, but it's worked for me for a while. Tim, I don't know who that Zodiac person is, but they're really annoying. I ran crying to the admin noticeboard when I first saw that kind of vandalism, cos I didn't know how to fix it. They fixed it for me. :) -

1980:

are lots of theories out there, touching on them all would cause the article to be about "The why of yaoi" rather than yaoi/BL itself (such as themes, use of rape, more on this 'equality' idea). I might have the bias that as a fan, I'd feel touchy about 'why', as a distrust of being studied by people. We might add the current appeal section to what we're working on, and then edit out the duplicate information? -

1599:, and Lunsing's paper references some of the original debaters. I'm pretty sure that Suzuki's chapter was the only Japanese-related paper in the book, so you may find that the book as a whole isn't as relevant to you as you might wish. (However, if you happen to be a closet fan of the Spice Girls, the book has you covered. XD) I can't find any full works by Mizoguchi, but she has also published in the 819:. (I like Anne very much as a person, but I hate that book.) The line I quoted is really typical of the kind of smarty-pants, enigmatic prose that is popular in a lot "cultural studies" work, and which is one reason I basically stopped writing for academics after finishing my "Out of Hand" article. BTW, shounen-ai is only a small part of the Buckley article, so I think omitting it is easily justified. 418:-- that these stories point to "... on-going shift away from neo-Confucianist, hence patriarchal, ideals of the good wife and wise mother who is the passive subordinate of men and the passive producer of offspring for men." In a symbolic sense, YAOI is part of the same historical trend, because in YAOI the woman artist and her readers get to play Goddess with men and make them do all 1941:-- about the subject assures us that we're not giving "undue weight" (another Wiki-ism) to various crackpot theories. But, Matt, rest assured that WE do not have to "verify" the claims being made by the people we're citing. Our job is to choose serious scholars, even if we disagree with them, and cite them accurately. When we do that, "Wiki-verifiability" has been satisfied. 1226:

female sexuality while simultaneously creating greater fluidity in perceptions of gender and sexuality,and as rejecting “socially mandated” gender roles as a “first step toward feminism.” In more elaborate theorizing, Suzuki Kazuko sees BL manga emerging from girls' contempt and dislike for masculine heterosexism and from an effort to define "ideal relationships" among men.

2825:

huge chunks that Anglophone fans would find more important and interesting.) The paragraph we have may give a bit more attention to the debate than it merits, but it's a solid, well-referenced paragraph, and I think it's good enough for the time-being. I say we consider this topic taken care of and move to other parts of the article. What do you think?

896:

celebrate their own sexuality. Then Welker presents the idea that lesbians (namedrop, namedrop) also read shonen ai as part of their self-identification. "hence the full potential of boys' love is largely overlooked: that of liberating readers not just from patriarchy but from gender dualism and heteronormativity"(p. 843)

1933:

Knowledge from drowning under a swamp of unreferenced opinion, guesswork, ranting, fancruft, and half-remembered "what somebody said in the bar one night after 8 beers." We do NOT have to worry about that in the material in Sandbox 2 -- our text is very heavily referenced. In brief, none of it is made up.

3088:

I'm not familiar with Noh's paper, but if you can work it in somewhere to add a bit emphasis on that point, that's fine with me. Subversion is (I think) a main theme of my own paper. Subversion is definitely a major aspect of the appeal for fans. You can tell that just from their conversation, though

3063:

Are we sure it covers everything important in the appeal section? I'd like the idea of subversion as part of the appeal to clearly come through (perhaps by directly using the word somewhere...) - I think Sueen Noh's paper is very good. It makes sense that the Internet would have plugged the gap for

2804:

Can I just be a bit embarrassed now? If someone really, truly, wanted to know more about gay views on yaoi, they'd go to the articles we use as references for those parts, wouldn't they? It's not necessary for us to cover every nuance of a five year debate, is it? Humph, I don't know what to think

2788:

that neatly summarizes it. I say "neatly," but it's still pretty long, and I haven't finished reading it, but it may be useful. Apparently the whole thing started with Satoh's blunt expression of contempt: "Yaoi should just die. I despise yaoi. I discriminate against . I refuse to recognize the human

2750:

I'm starting to wonder if this was really a "ronsou" at all or just a one-sided critique. In my experience, BL fans have never given much thought to such topics, and except for a handful of "high-profile" BL creators/fans, it's hard to imagine the average BL fan reacting with more than idle curiosity

2055:

I'm confused - Tim, if you're going to edit down the current "appeal" and "debate" sections into the second, yaoi-devoted sandbox, why are you calling for more material? I suppose that we have to check that the current arguments in 'appeal' are actually representative of the various 'why' arguments,

1812:

I added page numbers and ISBNs where I could, but the ISBNs on Amazon do not include hyphens. Do we need to include both ISBNs when two are given? Sheesh. This reference formatting has addled my ADD-impaired brain. (Pun intended.) I'll continue looking for missing info from the references I added. As

1721:

sandbox, this one called "Matt Thorn/Sandbox 2," and we move ONLY the new material into it. I'll help with this when he makes the new Sandbox. The reason is to ask people to look ONLY at Sandbox 2 and not at Sandbox 1. If people see Sandbox 1, they will start objecting and adding things and helpfully

969:

I added your summary to the lit review. (See above.) Does that look all right? Note that the link to the article is dead, so I removed it. I think this is probably good enough for the "Critical Attention" section. It's not comprehensive, but provides a decent sample of both Japanese English writings.

413:

From TP. I agree with Matt that the shōjo heroine was not abandoned. In fact, I see the history of shōjo manga in part as an increasing focus on the heroine, and especially on her self-agency, self-determination, and independence. Shiokawa (1999) makes a similar point, and we have elaborated on it in

75:

as being "a new innovation on the campus story" and praises the independence of its heroine, who trains hard to make her own happiness possible. (p. 246-247) Suzuki suggests that as women tried to become more independent, they started to perceive more and more obstacles, and so shoujo manga began to

2824:

What's to be embarrassed about? It's hard to tell what is important and what isn't, even if (or sometimes because) you are very close to the material. (Hell, if I were given dictatorial control of the shoujo manga article, I can promise you I would spend way too much space on the history and cut out

2722:

I think I see what you mean now - if it's inserted, it seems like the article takes Satou's side in the ronsou? I don't believe the Knowledge article uses Lunsing's article too much, but I might be mentally comparing to how it looked about a year ago. In Lunsing's article, Tamae Tanigawa says that

2641:

Can you find a quote for the "drowning out" part? I'm not convinced by the June vs. Badi website; we need something better, I think, than a passing comment in an article about Mishima. The mere number of websites for various people doesn't tell us anything direct, IMO, about "drowning out." In order

2007:

ISBNs...Phew. I'll try to find the proper 13-digit (and hyphenated) ISBNs for the books I introduced. (Why the hell are there two different ISBNs? Wait, don't answer that; I really don't want to know.) I'm inclined to defer to Malkinann on the issue of how much "why" is enough. I say trim as you see

1578:

I don't suppose page numbers are required for the other refs, since they are summaries of arguments that span whole pieces. Malkinann, I'd like to hear more about the "yaoi ronsou of 1992-1997." I'd also like to read the complete text of Mizoguchi's presentation. Do you know where I could find it? I

1225:

observed that “aesthetically” depicted male-male homosexual relationships had become popular among female readers as an extension of bisexual themes already present in shōjo manga. Japanese critics have seen BL as allowing girls to distance sex from their own bodies, as allowing girls to avoid adult

3068:

enough may be up for debate. (Is it common knowledge for people who don't have the Net? What's the likelihood that someone without the Net will get a hold of this page?) So we're calling the new section "critical attention", plunking it down after "Fandom demographics", and replacing the current

2866:

Malkinann, please don't be embarassed for anything you said about my summaries! Writers thrive on thoughtful criticism, and you and Matt are providing precisely that. I'm acting as an amanuensis for what you guys are finding -- and I'm going to go over to Sandbox 2 and shorten up the stuff we have.

2119:

Kinsella".</sarcasm>) The equation of yaoi and lolicon sounds like she's taking Shigematsu's very interesting analysis and twisting it to her own purposes. Anyway, though there may be something to it, the Freudian angle is a slippery slope, IMO. I prefer to listen to what fans themselves have

1979:

in general, which I know how to use. On replacing the appeal section with a critical attention section... I think a critical attention section has the potential to cover more than just the appeal, but I think there's also an issue of going off on a tangent and placing undue weight on 'why'. There

1695:

they are not yet complete. They need to be put in consistent format, they need starting and final pages for all print references, and all books need an ISBN (available by searching for the title and author on Google Books). There are probably other glitches as well that I haven't noticed (in fact I

1023:

Please do! And, yeah, Malkinann, I was weirded out by "such lesbians as" even as I wrote it. (^^;) It was an awkward first attempt to "streamline" your summary. Please keep in mind that while English is my first language, I've spent most of my adult life in Japan and spend a hell of a lot more time

790:

narratives is is not the transformation or naturalization of difference but the valorization of the imagined potentialities of alternative differentiations." mean? The point of having bishonen in the stories is not to make the gender difference (between men and women) less, but to champion the sex

540:

Actually, Malkinann, Martha and I haven't published very much about YAOI. The "Eroticism for the masses" paper dealt with it only in passing (it was written in 2001, before the big YAOI market opened in the US). An interesting sidenote: I'm a member of sex therapy listserve, and I posted a question

1936:

So we're not concerned by whether or not a given statement is true or even plausible; we're concerned to reference it to someone who said it. Of course, it is also our responsibility to make sure that what this someone said is significant, interesting, and/or insightful, but it does NOT have to be

456:

There's always the possibility that I'm just not understanding Suzuki perfectly here, right? Maybe she only meant that the shonen-ai writers stopped showing females, rather than all writers in total, for instance. Incidentally Mr Perper, I gather that your and Ms Cornog's work that most concerns

398:

Given that many of my interests in manga are related to my interests and writing about human sexuality, I think an important theme of this history deals with the public/private nature of sexuality and of "sexual discourse." I can go into a lot more about that, but it seems to be something we can't

3428:

is becoming less true). ;) What I have been doing in the past with the further reading is using it as a wishlist for articles I want, and a 'holding pen' for web articles I don't know how to include as footnotes. I've been removing links and articles from the further reading section as I've

2091:

I was thinking of "calling" = asking, myself. I may have supressed the more unpalatable reasons myself - there's Mori Mari, who Keith Vincent interprets as being both Electra-ish and a key influence on yaoi (which could be extrapolated to be "yaoi fans have daddy issues", but that may fall under

2071:

Sorry, Malkinann, I wasn't saying that I am calling for (= demanding) more material; I was saying that if you or Matt come up with it, that's fine. I can deal with what's in the article without anything new, but I won't be horrified or terribilized or (so on) if there isn't more material. Is OK?

1901:

The "4" means Japanese. Each language has its own number - 0 & 1 are English; 2 is French; 3 is German; 4 is Japanese. The "08" is a unique code uniquely identifying the publisher, in this case, Shueisha. (Given on the Japanese ISBN site above!) The "873444" uniquely identifies the book, this

1538:

Wow, that's a lot shorter!!! :D Thank you, Tim! I'm kind of sorry to bring it up, but what about gay and lesbian commentary? I think we've got the main part of it in the yaoi ronsou section, (I kind of got the impression that everyone just got sick of arguing about it in '97, lol) but I found

895:

with a feminine soul "who lives and loves outside of the heteropatriarchal world" (Beautiful, Borrowed and Bent, p.842) Welker agrees with Fujimoto when she says that part of the reason why the bishonen is genderqueer ((My word here, not Welker's or Fujimoto's)) is because girls can't accept and

436:

definition of what men are. Instead of having these men fight each other and vie with each other for who is King of the Mountain, these women artists show men forming sexual unions in varying degrees of explicitness. The underlying ethos of YAOI is literally and truly "Make love, not war." If one

898:

He then goes on to say that Takarazuka, Sapphire and Oscar are inspirations for bishonen, that the enforced censorship of "male sex organs" can suggest femininity in Gilbert specifically and bishonen in general, that gender is a matter of degree (put a flamboyantly gay boy next to a woman and he

739:

In English, Schodt first noted the phenomenon in 1983, simply reporting that "ales of homosexual relationships between young boys, when depicted 'aesthetically,' are very popular among female readers and are an extension of the underlying bisexual theme traditionally present in many girls' comic

714:

BL (shounen-ai, yaoi) have received considerable scholarly and critical attention, since the early 1980s in Japan, and since the early 1990s in English. The amount of English-language writings, in particular, has increased sharply since commercially published translation of BL have become widely

1817:

think? The problem with writing about appeal apart from what we're doing here is "verifiability." In my own paper, I tried to rely on the statements of fans, and to summarize some of the more common reasons fans give for liking the genre, but I can't claim that my list of reasons is exhaustive.

1784:

Yeah, I'm a bit conflicted on the citation templates too - I'm not sure if, for example, they'd support someone writing a foreword to a book chapter by someone else. Do you have any recommendations for a citation style? I'm only really familiar with Harvard, and that doesn't fully go with the

952:

Jeez, that's a hard task! Got it in two? JW describes the bishonen as being a "queer" character, as lesbians such as manga critic Akiko Mizoguchi have read shonen ai as part of their own "becoming a lesbian". Welker declares that shonen ai liberates readers "not just from patriarchy, but from

810:

dislike her article, personally, but it is widely cited in "the literature," so I thought I should include it. I have no objection, though, to removing the reference to Buckley entirely. I remember hearing hear present an earlier version of this paper at some conference way back around 1990 and

3010:

going to raise questions about what a "blog" is, or how reliable this one might be, about comments made in Japanese. The major point, to my mind, is that it makes sense to see that the Internet provided gay-themed material for gay male readers written by gay men and, with that, some of Satou's

2654:

I found something better for the Badi reference. Unfortunately, Mechademia is back at the library, but from Lunsing's paper - "However, as long as yaoi remained small scale and something for personal pleasure, he did not find any harm in it. The problems arose once the genre entered into the

770:

as being a "queer" character, noting that such lesbians as manga critic Akiko Mizoguchi have spoken of the role of shonen-ai in their own process of "becoming a lesbian". Welker declared that shonen-ai liberates readers "not just from patriarchy, but from gender dualism and heteronormativity."

545:

to have heard of it). My absolute favorite comment so far was a woman therapist who wrote "For a staight woman who sees the body type she most favors, what could be better than two versions of this?" My own feeling is that a good deal of academic commentary on YAOI is hand-wringing worry about

2771:

I'm coming to agree with Matt's view here, especially as I continued to write the new material. I felt that it was one-sided, meaning that we are taking Satou's side. I can easily shorten the paragraph dealing with the ronsou down to two sentences. Let me check Lunsing for the Tamae Tanigawa

1932:

statements made on Knowledge can be traced to someone who actually made that statement. In the material we have above, everything we said is Wiki-verifiable because each substantive statement is referred to a source where someone said what we said they said. The reason for this is to prevent

2151:

reaction going on there. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, right? Kinsella references "Ueno Chizuko, "Kyuju nendai no Sexual Revolution, " in Otaku no Hon, (1989)." Ueno seems to be saying that amateur genres are wish-fulfillment for people who write them (isn't all

1594:

The yaoi ronsou hasn't been the subject of much English-language literature, Keith Vincent's Mechademia 2 paper covers it the best I've seen, although Wim Lunsing seems to have been the pioneer English-language writer about the ronsou. Properly, it should say 1992-1997ish, with revivals by

3225:(can't read it, but thank goodness for English abstracts!). What would an International Reception section have that Critical attention could not be expanded to have? Currently, the "fandom demographics" incorporates data from a few regions (although it's not awfully clear in the text). - 3450:

Continuing from Malkinann's preceding comment. I really like the Further Readings section. These manga/anime articles (and others) all need something like that. But even so, I think we can check the references, confirming or changing them if they're wrong. I also agree that right now the

3173:(From TP). Hmmm... another point. Maybe Noh's paper should go into a section about International Reception or something like that rather than into the present (Sandbox 1) material? I'd like to add the Sandbox 1 material as it is now to the article so we can clear the decks and move on to 2670:

Are we beginning to overuse Lunsing's article? I'd like to stay with a discussion of yaoi and BL in this entry, rather than get into issues about how gay males are depicted in the media. That debate is powerfully interesting to many gay men, but it deals with the status and place of male

2194:

I seem to have picked up the vague idea that The Tale of Genji may be a forerunner, (by women, for women, beautiful male protagonist) but I can't say where I got the idea from or even *really* why... :( Tough luck on buying the book for full price and thanks for promising a report.

570:

Perper, Timothy and Martha Cornog 2003 Sex, love, and women in Japanese comics. In Robert T. Francoeur and Raymond Noonan, editors. The Comprehensive International Encyclopedia of Sexuality. New York: Continuum. pages 663-671. You can find it when you scroll down to Section 8D in

2897:

had to have said "All right, you gay guys, stop bitching about us women being in your way and keeping you in the closet and how much you hate us and want us dead and blame us for creating an immensely popular artform when you didn't. Just shut up and make your own damn comics."

2984:" feeling, but if you read the weasel words essay, that's okay to do, as it is the majority opinion whilst describing Satou's position, yes? Naming everyone feels like we're name-dropping, as well. I'd feel more comfortable if we could be sure that the Japanese blog passed 3282:

I just looked at the Yaoi article and I'm not sure what gets removed and where to add the new (Sandbox 2) material. Also we need a comment on the talk page that we're about to do this. So can I have some input from both of you? We shouldn't let this sit around forever...

1735:

Then go over to the page we're porting this into and put a note on its talk page that we have new material to add that can be found on Sandbox2. This tells people what we're doing and creates consensus about it. Yes, I know it's tedious but the alternative can be a lot

1024:

speaking and writing Japanese than I do English, so sometimes my English sounds as if it was translated from Japanese (because it was, in my head). Particularly sad, since I majored in writing in college, and am supposed to be something of a professional writer. (-_-;)

761:

In 2004, Thorn revisited the issue, argued that what fans of yaoi and slash "share in common is 1) discontent with the standards of femininity to which they are expected to adhere, and 2) a social environment that does not validate or sympathize with that discontent."

981:"such lesbians as..." wierds me out, it kind of implies that there's a lesbian hierarchy, rather than we're just using Mizoguchi as a named example (as she is a lesbian and a manga critic). Otherwise, it's a darned improvement on what we've got already in yaoi. - 899:

seems more masculine, put him next to a macho man and the boy seems more feminine) He also goes on a bit about the "lesbian panic" inherent in suggesting that bishonen are girls under their skins - that the stories are really about female-female relationships. -

2517:

Thanks, Matt! Malkinann, what do you think? Let me fix up the refs next. I'll see if I can find a more direct reference to Choisir. Do either of you have a Japanese or other website for Choisir? I'm going to do a Google Book Search using "Choisir" and "Sato" or

1165:

But, after some hours, I succeeded in transferring many of the references into the text below. But you need to check them and see if I got the right references! I didn't transfer several references to Matt's work, because I want to make sure that I've got them

1651:

important aspect of topic X, even when they haven't investigated as thoroughly as ideally they should be able to. Makes their own stuff seem more important to the reader, I think? Once we port this over to the article, I'm thinking of requesting a hand from

3342:

If it reads really well, it's cos you wrote it really well, Tim! ;) Given that everything I know about josei manga fits on the head of a pin, I think I'll continue "playing with dolls" at yaoi - but you two should write on whatever you want to.

3161:-- to the yaoi article. The voice of experience here: it's always possible "to add just one more reference." But it's never-ending because there always is "just one more reference"... So I think we're ready to add the new material. What's your feeling? 600:

problems, too. Thanks for clarifying about the yaoi-content of your 2002 paper. They charge $ 32 for your paper, and you don't see any of it? That's awful!! Thank you for showing me your other paper - we might be able to use it in the yuri article.

752:

Thorn wrote in 1993 that the phenomenon is "one of enormous complexity that resist easy formulations. There are different reasons that different Japanese are attracted to sexual ambiguity in shoujo manga, yet there is at the same time undeniably some

188:

choice she made, but the fact that she took control of her own destiny and made the choice on her own, rather than passively doing what her parents or boyfriend wanted her to do. (BTW, she decides to have the baby.) Anyway, generalizing based only on

724:

Fujimoto, writing in 1991, argued that shōnen-ai represented a way for readers to avoid the reality of adult female sexuality, while proposing the possibility that the genre could eventually lead to a more fluid perception of gender and sexuality.

3423:

That tag was originally added by me - I took the tag to mean that the ratio of footnotes to further reading was unfavourable. The article looked dodgy because there was too much further reading/external links, not enough footnotes (which I will

1944:(3) I don't have a quick answer to where this goes -- Malkinann, you're the expert on the YAOI entry. I'll trust your judgement, and Matt's. I'll look at the article with an eye to seeing where I think it might go, but I respect your judgement. 3192:

I didn't notice until I read Tim's comments that the Noh paper was about Korean fandom. Shows how carefully I was paying attention. I agree that it probably belongs in an International Reception section. I say we go with the material as is.

2043:. Just let me know when and if I can edit the results. I like incorporating "Debate" and "Appeal" into one section. Maybe that should be done on Sandbox2? Looking forward to seeing more material! I don't want to know about the ISBNs either. 2879:

OK, I compressed the text in Sandbox 2 (if I did it right, you won't even notice!) and added the reference Matt found. Also, for the record, I'm transferring my previous comment from Sandbox2 to here (putting the comment over there was my

1221:) manga has received considerable critical attention, especially after translations of BL became commercially available outside of Japan in the 21st Century. Different critics and commentators have had very different views of BL. In 1983, 422:

of interesting things, e.g., bonking each other. One YAOI dojinshi artist said in a reference I have misplaced that drawing YAOI is like playing with dolls: You get to make them do whatever you want! So I do not think that YAOI represents

3462:-- they were supposed to be for the manga article doujinshi section, but they didn't get used. Malkinann and Matt, take a look and see if they can or should be transferred to the doujinshi section of Yaoi. There's some other stuff too. 3212:

I wanted to add a reference to Sueen Noh into the Sandbox 2 material, and I'm wondering how much "International Reception" there is... (although, assuming that "international" means non-Japanese here, that expands the scope somewhat to

280:

So do you think that Yamamoto was a major factor in the sudden appearance at that time of what is commonly called the Magnificent 24-Year Group, and the kind of, for want of a better word, "literary" girls' comics associated with those

1541:

Gay and lesbian commentators have focussed on the realism of gay identity in BL, most notably in the yaoi ronsou of 1992-1997.(Lunsing, Vincent) In 2003, Mizoguchi characterised some stereotypes in modern BL as being "unrealistic and

1231:

Other commentators have suggested that more radical gender-political issues underlie BL. Shihomi Sakakibara (1998) argued that yaoi fans, including herself, were homosexually oriented female-to-male transsexuals. For Sandra Buckley,

2625:, put ad-block on and it's okay) and in 2003, a study found there were equal numbers of Japanese websites about yaoi as there were Japanese sites for gay men about homosexuality. I'm sorry that I can't fully articulate my thoughts. - 560:> We do not get one red cent from them, and they weren't even the damn publishers back in 2002 when the paper was first published. But they're selling the paper anyway. I think it's a good paper, but I can't guarantee that it's a 3122:

in about 2001ish. How about: "Although yaoi fandom is apolitical on questions of gay identity, Thorn and Noh have suggested a subversive..." um... "pleasure is inherent in yaoi"? Darn it, I can't even write a whole sentence. :P

3105:

I'm not familiar with the paper either, but inserting it is easy. Just add it with the comment that "Sueen Noh (ref) points out that the appeal of yaoi is in part subverting received gender roles or rules" or something like that.

1051:

Ouch! I get what you mean there - the good thing about wiki is that we don't necessarily have to get the prose just right the first time around, and it can benefit from having many sets of eyes on it. After all, yaoi is one of

830:

Phew, so it's not just me, then!! James Welker covers the transgressive gender performance of the bishonen in much clearer (but lengthier) language in his "Girls love as Boys Love", with special reference to lesbian readings of

1155:

Notice, for example, that the first references are numbered 3 and 4. That's because they first appeared somewhere previously in the Sandbox. You have to find them, copy them, move them, and then delete them from where they were

1927:

is Wiki-jargon and doesn't mean what it would mean if we were writing this for scholarly publication. It means instead something like "traceability" or "locatability," meaning that (in ideal, but, alas, not always in practice)

815:, and since it was basically the only "academic" thing in print on the topic in English, it became a popular source. I feel like I've spent most of my academic career fighting against this article by Buckley and Anne Allison' 64:

Kazuko Suzuki says that up until the 1970s, shoujo manga followed a "Cinderella" script, characterised by females being very dependent on males. In the 1970s, social changes allowed women to work outside of the home more.

1259:

of 1992-1997. In 2003, Mizoguchi characterised some stereotypes in modern BL as being "unrealistic and homophobic". In 1993 and 2004, Matthew Thorn pointed to the complexity of these phenomena, and suggested that yaoi and

3248:

I think "International reception" doesn't have to be academic, or at least not exclusively academic. Citable, verifiable statements about the popularity of BL outside Japan (e.g., Amazon rankings) seem good enough to me.

1101:

I've added text footnotes and reference queries where we need information. The refs should be transferred from the numbered list to this text. I transferred Malkinann's comment about critics. We need a footnote defining

644:(also Vincent a little) looking at yaoi as a feminist expression including an 'ideal love' not found in heterosexual romances,(Suzuki) and discussing what may lie behind the popularity of yaoi.(Every man and his dog) 1175:

We can add more references, but if you do, please be careful about getting them into the text below rather than lying around loose somewhere else in the Sandbox. Such references will appear two or more times in the

1619:

I honestly couldn't say that McLelland says there's a lot of scholarship out there on BL - he says on page 61 that there's stuff-all in English and even less in Japanese. Mind you, that was in 2000, pre-BL boom.

489:

is tricky. Abortion in Japan is not and never has been a "hot-button" issue, as it is the U.S. Although the heroine chooses to give birth, there is no anti-abortion message here at all. But Timothy is right about

2190:

This will be interesting... Maybe we can get a bit more on tanbi and "shonen ai mono" stories from it... McLelland says that prior to shonen ai, most representations of homoerotic behaviour were by men, for

2566:

Thanks, Malkinann. I did some Google searches but came up with very little that we either don't have or is otherwise usable. So you think the text is OK, or should I change it? If so, what do you recommend?

461:

some time and give enough of a summary for us to cite you? It'd be really helpful if you could! Also, the 'girls playing with dolls' comment sounds like something I've got cited to Yoshihiro Yonezawa via

427:

of female libido from prohibited avenues (either heterosexual or lesbian) by means of a sublimated (and therefore ultimately false-consciousness) identification with the oppressor; rather, I see YAOI as an

494:

exposing to the light of day a topic that had been (and remains) one not discussed in polite company, and certainly not in a magazine whose core readership was pubescent and prepubescent girls. Takemiya's

437:

asks what would the world look like if women really ran it, would if be filled with armed men, heroically battling each other against impossible odds and dying heroic deaths? Hell, no. It'd have all these

2889:"TP again. Now the tone strikes me as strongly POV. We must balance Sato/Lunsing with quotes and reasonable defenses of yaoi and BL by quoting other people. Otherwise, we have all our critical eggs in an 719:

Ueno, in 1989, wrote that ""male homosexuality was a safety device that allowed to operate this dangerous thing called 'sex' at a distance from own bodies; it was the wings that enabled girls to fly."

2260:

1991 "Shôjo manga ni okeru 'shōnen ai' no imi" ("The Meaning of 'Boys' Love' in Shōjo Manga"). In New Feminism Review, Vol. 2: Onna to hyôgen ("Women and Expression"). N. MIZUTA, ed. Tokyo: Gakuyō Shobō.

2848:

Well, I'm embarrassed about giving Tim such a hard time about it! I'm sorry, Tim!! Just to remind myself again, the article does not have to be perfect, it just has to be better than it was before. -

2680:

We're also running the risk ot straying into POV material. I think we need to hear the words of yaoi and BL fans who disagreed with Sato. Let me reread Lunsing's article and see what I come up with.

3138:

I think you're on the right track. (^^) As I told Tim, I'm late with a translation deadline and also fighting a cold, so I probably won't be able to contribute much for a few days. Good luck! (^o^)

2919:

I think the new version is much better -- it's not POV and covers the bases without excessive detail. If it's OK with you guys, I think we can go with it and move on to other parts of the article.

1138:

reference prior to the text below will be included as number 1,2,3, or whatever. That means that we need to be very careful using the <ref> and <ref/> commands because whatever --

1704:-- repeat, not, not, not -- mandated. So, first, you and Matt need to complete the references with all the additional stuff needed. I can't do this because I don't have the references at hand. 184:

could be seen as making the heroine "unequal" to the male lead, apart from the obvious fact that she's the one who became pregnant and had to deal with it. The point of the story, IMO, is not

2115:

Is that what Kinsella says? Well, that just goes to confirm my impression of her. I think she has plenty of issues herself. (<sarcasm>Heaven help the soul who does not address her as "

592:

We could, if we find critics waxing lyrical about one title or another, briefly mention it in the shoujo manga article and port the majority of the reception to the series article? (Like

537:

I'm in the middle of reading Suzuki's article. I have the sense that I'm missing something important, but I haven't finished it yet, so I'll wait a bit before asking you people questions!

862:

Agreed. So you're volunteering to add a line about Welker, right? (^^) As you can see, I struck the line about Buckley (though I left it there just as a record of the drafting process).

839:. I think that perhaps we should err on the side of making it easier for the reader to understand the shonenai/yaoi/BL phenomena rather than reproducing a history of the scholarship. - 180:("Birth!"), which was shocking at the time and was probably not repeated in the genre for another ten years (except perhaps in the case of a secondary character). And I don't see how 3217:.) Toku and Wilson's paper uses information from both Taiwan and Japan, McLelland's bonking paper repeats a rumour about Chinese fandom being more prudish, and there's a couple of 2617:

I'm not sure the idea that Satou felt that yaoi was drowning gay men out is coming through in the text - I'm not sure if this is reliable, but I've found something which says that

648:

Malkinann wrote this, right? Sorry, it looks like we were writing at the same time. I didn't notice your contribution until I posted the draft below. Don't know Welker or Suzuki.

3032:

Matt, can you fix up the Takemiya reference? It's #5. Then everyone should give it a final proofreading, and Malkinann, you can move it into the YAOI article? Onwards to josei!

1264:

fans are discontented with “the standards of femininity to which they are expected to adhere and a social environment that does not validate or sympathize with that discontent.”

1883:(1) My personal preference is to use ISBNs with hyphens. Here is a website that is worth its weight in gold -- it identifies the publisher associated with each Japanese ISBN. 1969:

don't say anything about adding the original titles for non-English sources, but it would probably be a good idea to do so somehow. The Japanese MOS seems to advocate using

441:

guys bonking each other -- or thus one might readily argue from YAOI. We certainly don't want them dead, the YAOi artist is typically saying, we want them alive and sexy!

2902:

the kind of reply we have to find for balancing the anti-female tone and style of Sato's criticisms. Otherwise, we're stuck in what sounds very much like simple misogyny.

2039:

I'll leave it to you folks. I agree with Matt's idea of having a few examples to give the lay of the land, and skipping the rest, especially poorly reviewed books about

1134:

problems working on Knowledge. The Knowledge word-processing program gathers ALL references into one huge reference list, numbering them seqquentially, which means that

3006:

I may fix up the "some artists and fans" but, yes, it's accurate. It means, some, not all. The Japanese blog is fine -- an English-language blog might not be, but I am

2490:

Please check my revision for accuracy. I added a few details that I remember from the debate. I'll fix the references later. If it's OK, I'll remove the original text.

636:

The shonen-ai, yaoi and BL phenomena have been analysed by critics in various ways, including common themes presented, the gender-bending of the bishonen protagonists,

596:

is mentioned as an example in the yaoi article, but I've created a small reception section for it from that information.) This would help guard those articles against

1822:

influenced by their society's discourse on homosexuality. I think the underlying appeal is basically the same, but the way Japanese and American fans talk about it is

2723:

Satou is picking on yaoi women, because gay men are an established group, and yaoi women aren't, and why aren't the gay men putting out the images that they like? -

3157:

Malkinann, I'm not sure if you want to add a reference to Sueen Noh to the material in Sandbox 2 or if you think we can add the whole section without Noh -- as in

1855:

BTW, should I add the Original Japanese for titles and authors? I suppose it would make it easier for people who want to track down the original source material.

2120:

to say, and I tried to record some of that in my own article, though in retrospect I wish I had included more fan quotes and less academic name-dropping. (-_-;)

671:

already. (Her fieldwork for the chapter extended from about the mid 80s to '94, so I'd be highly surprised if you and she didn't come to similar conclusions). -

1657: 2192: 1785:<ref></ref> style of things. This "critical attention" section we're drafting here is intended to entirely replace the current "appeal" section? - 748:

narratives is is not the transformation or naturalization of difference but the valorization of the imagined potentialities of alternative differentiations."

578:

Both these papers were done before the recent Manga Explosion in the US and before the equally recent explosion of academic commentary about manga and anime.

735:

Sakakibara, in 1998, took the radical stance that fans of yaoi, including herself, are in fact female-to-male transsexuals with a homosexual orientation.

546:

whether it's NORMAL for girls to be Interested in Such Things. Well, yes, my answer is, it certainly is -- not exactly traditional, but certainly normal.

391:

rejected the possibility of the woman having an abortion, it still deals with an issue perhaps for the first time. That, IMO, certainly deserves mention

1992:

Should we fold in the "debate" material from the YAOI entry into the new section? I can transfer that section to Sandbox2 and summarize it if you like.

1185:

Please check the references and see if they're right. Many of them are incomplete; e.g., books need ISBNs, articles need start and end pages, and so on.

3267:

Has anyone put the new material in yet? If not, I will. Another source for reception information is the manga ratings data from Anime News Network.

114:

Great. Do you have any specific titles for girls that depict the heroine with an unwanted pregnancy? Citing them would be worth its weight in gold.

3455:

have to check them. Matt, you want to make a new Sandbox (#4) for this? We can transfer the reading list and check things off as we confirm them.

1700:

the Citation cleanup folks will tell us to use the various citation templates, which, in my experience are a waste of space and time. Their use is

1142:-- we put into those references will appear in the text bibliography below. This is more than a nuisance. It is an absolute pain in the butt and a 3404:? It's tagged with some kind of "verifiability" flag, which I'd like to remove when we've verified the references. Malkinann, how's that for you? 1564:

Great job. (Note that the earlier paper by me is from 1993, not 2003.) Here are the page numbers for the quotes from the references I supplied:

3011:

critique loses much of its force. I'd leave it and let other people argue if they want to -- and my experience is that they won't even notice.

1653: 1603:(which I can't access) and in "Queer Japan" (according to Google Scholar, I can't find a website for that journal.) Hope this helps. :) - 2388: 2352: 457:

yaoi is "Eroticism for the masses"? I've looked it up and I don't have access to it... I don't suppose I could prevail upon you to drop by

330:, you knew you could read her every month. The whole "Yumiko Ohshima World" just unfolded in an amazing way. Very poetic. Very philosophical. 1081:

Here's a first shot at editing it down. My aim is brevity and precision. The stuff below needs references, especially page refs. We need a

729:

Takemiya, in 1993, suggested that the genre, in rejecting socially mandated heterosexual gender roles, is "a first step towards feminism."

806:

To be honest, I don't know what the hell Buckley is trying to say here, which is why I quoted her rather than tried to summarize. (^_^) I

1283:

Thorn, Matthew 2004 "Girls And Women Getting Out Of Hand: The Pleasure And Politics Of Japan's Amateur Comics Community" pp. 169-186, In

3459: 1880:

I transferred the text (and therefore the references) to Sandbox 2. It looks good. We can adjust and format the references over there.

288:

Oh, I think he was a major factor, yes. I think it was really Yumiko Ohshima who blazed that trail, though. She had been working for

172:

I think Suzuki is really stretching things here. I can think of plenty of better early examples of independent, strong heroines than

1917: 1896: 1440: 1312: 2988:. As far as yaoi's concerned, it's time to move on! I haven't checked out the josei material, I'll have to save it for tomorrow.- 1323:

Ueno Chizuko (1989) "Jendaaresu waarudo no <ai> no jikken" ("Experimenting with <love> in a Genderless World"). In

1419: 1398: 1390: 1353: 1332: 1292: 1509:

Homophobic Homos, Rapes of Love, and Queer Lesbians: Yaoi as a Conflicting Site of Homo/ Hetero-Sexual Female Sexual Fantasy

519:

Matt, I agree about abortion. The questions are very different in Japan and in the US. I see the significance of works like

2579:

Sorry to sound so critical, your text is really quite good. Change magazine to minikomi perhaps with a link to zine, like

1937:"true" in some positivist sense for us to use it. In the present case, the fact that the three of us know a good deal -- a 3400:

Thanks. OK, we do some work on josei. In the meantime, how about we also look at the "Further Readings" reference list on

2981: 1523:

Thorn, Matt (1993) "Unlikely Explorers: Alternative Narratives of Love, Sex, Gender, and Friendship in Japanese 'Girls

1121:

I've added some more material from various comments made in the discussion. More importantly, I also added references.

1749:

Yes, you are absolutely right that academics say that topic X has little research in order to inflate their own work.

1381:

Suzuki, Kazuko. 1999. "Pornography or Therapy? Japanese Girls Creating the Yaoi Phenomenon". In Sherrie Inness, ed.,

1344:

Fujimoto Yukari (1991) "Shōjo manga ni okeru 'shōnen ai' no imi" ("The Meaning of 'Boys' Love' in Shōjo Manga"). In

95:

It's by me, and I thought most of it was slightly more relevant to the history of shoujo manga rather than yaoi??? -

3065: 2980:"Amanuensis", eh? Posh. :) You're doing a great job of it! The "some artists and fans" phrase gives me a " 2147:

I might not be properly understanding Kinsella's joining of lolicon guys and yaoi girls, or I may just be having a

3222: 1236:

narratives valorize “the imagined potentialities of alternative differentiations" and James Welker described the

953:

gender dualism and heteronormativity". Of course, it helps now that I've made a "Critical attention" section for

3480: 3045: 2471: 1476:

Yaoi Ronsō: Discussing Depictions of Male Homosexuality in Japanese Girls' Comics, Gay Comics and Gay Pornography

2456:

1989 "Jendaaresu waarudo no <ai> no jikken" ("Experimenting with <love> in a Genderless World"). In

1722:

changing everything we have. The result will be unusable -- believe me, this is the voice of experience talking!

1580: 970:

If there are no objections, I suggest we check the piece for formatting and typos and plug it into the article.

3494: 3472: 3409: 3372: 3322: 3288: 3272: 3182: 3166: 3111: 3037: 3021: 2962: 2924: 2907: 2872: 2777: 2704: 2685: 2647: 2603: 2572: 2532: 2495: 2077: 2048: 1997: 1952: 1766: 1637: 1198: 1111: 1094: 1005: 585: 446: 406: 119: 89: 3489:

Great! I transferred the references. We can start checking them now, and deciding what to include or exclude.

2433:

2004 "Girls And Women Getting Out Of Hand: The Pleasure And Politics Of Japan's Amateur Comics Community" (In

1687:

articles. I can pretty much tell you what the Citation cleanup people will say -- and we don't need them yet.

1053: 3317:

Great! Thanks, Malkinann! The section reads really well. Are we going to do more Yaoi or do josei instead?

1253:

Some gay and lesbian commentators have criticized how gay identity is portrayed in BL, most notably in the

791:

and gender possibilities that imagination allows us? ...Even after translating it, I don't get it! ^_^; -

549:

I found some websites for the "playing with dolls" quote, but not the one I remember. I'll keep digging.

2422:

1993 "Unlikely Explorers: Alternative Narratives of Love, Sex, Gender, and Friendship in Japanese 'Girls

1961:(I can't believe it exists... o_O) suggests using solely the 13 number ISBN, with dashes if available. 1679:

Malkinann, may I suggest another procedure? It's based on my experience doing this kind of thing on the

593: 3177:

manga. After all, you can always add Noh later after the new section has been included in the article.

1431:

Buckley, Sandra (1991) "'Penguin in Bondage': A Graphic Tale of Japanese Comic Books", pp. 163-196, In

26:

My first sandbox! Let's play! Knock down my fort and I'll throw your bucket over the fence, poopyhead!

3363:

Aw, gee, shucks. Thanks. Malkinann, who the $ %^&* is this Zodiac person, who I just removed from

137:

Kazuko Suzuki doesn't give any examples of this, (citing an unpublished paper by a Hideko Suzuki) but

3390: 3364: 3303: 3254: 3198: 3143: 3094: 3053: 2939: 2830: 2794: 2756: 2507: 2479: 2367:, edited by John A. Lent, pp 93-125. Bowling Green, OH: Bowling Green State University Popular Press. 2183: 2125: 2013: 1906:. The final "0" is a so-called "checksum," meaning you can use it to see if the numbers were right. 1860: 1831: 1588: 1029: 975: 935: 867: 779: 691: 653: 630: 508: 361: 239: 210: 58: 31: 3490: 3468: 3434: 3405: 3368: 3348: 3318: 3284: 3268: 3230: 3178: 3162: 3128: 3107: 3074: 3033: 3017: 2993: 2958: 2920: 2903: 2868: 2853: 2810: 2773: 2728: 2700: 2681: 2660: 2643: 2630: 2599: 2588: 2568: 2555: 2546:

Choisir is described as a 'minikomi', which is an independent magazine - seemingly equivalent to a

2528: 2491: 2217: 2200: 2157: 2097: 2073: 2061: 2044: 2032: 1993: 1985: 1948: 1790: 1762: 1665: 1633: 1625: 1608: 1552: 1475: 1194: 1107: 1090: 1061: 1001: 986: 962: 904: 844: 796: 676: 606: 581: 471: 442: 402: 234:

Hah! Once again, we were editing at the same time, Malkinann. Yeah, I'm the "little birdie." (^^;)

150: 138: 115: 100: 85: 3214: 1454:

Welker, James. 2006. "Beautiful, Borrowed, and Bent: 'Boys' Love' as Girls' Love in Shôjo Manga'

1222: 1508: 3380: 2642:

to avoid POV, I'd also like to see someone who answered the accusation of being "drowned out."

1813:

for the question about whether this should replace the "Appeal" section, I don't know. What do

1647:

Mind you, from what I've seen, academics like to complain that no-one else has written on this

3385:-BL!), so I'll try to find time to finish the josei manga history and plug in the references. 3218: 3158: 2384: 2348: 1913: 1892: 1436: 1415: 1394: 1386: 1349: 1328: 1308: 1288: 17: 2953:

Malkinann, thanks for catching the error about the Vincent reference! Have you looked at the

2527:

This paragraph goes right after the last paragraph of the stuff we already have on Sandbox2?

2278:(in press) " “I Never Said I Was a Boy”: Utena, Arita Forland, and the (Non) Phallic Woman." 1491: 2699:

I added a new quote in Sandbox2, but didn't put it into the text. See if it fills the bill.

1973: 1966: 1684: 1248:

liberates readers "not just from patriarchy, but from gender dualism and heteronormativity."

530:

not in their being representative, but in how they opened new vistas for later artists that

3386: 3299: 3250: 3194: 3139: 3090: 3049: 2935: 2826: 2790: 2752: 2503: 2475: 2179: 2121: 2009: 1856: 1827: 1584: 1025: 971: 931: 863: 775: 687: 649: 626: 504: 357: 235: 206: 54: 27: 1000:

I think I'll try editing this stuff down a bit. Not simplifying, just shortening. Is OK?

2269:

2007 "The Education of Desire: Futari Etchi and the Globalization of Sexual Tolerance."

891:

James Welker describes the bishonen as being "queer", as the bishonen is an androgynous

557: 3430: 3344: 3226: 3124: 3070: 2989: 2849: 2806: 2724: 2656: 2626: 2584: 2551: 2213: 2196: 2153: 2093: 2057: 2028: 1981: 1958: 1786: 1661: 1621: 1604: 1548: 1365: 1057: 982: 958: 900: 840: 792: 683: 672: 664: 602: 467: 146: 96: 39: 2867:

Once that's done, then, yes, let's move on to the rest of the article. Thanks, guys!

1261: 1886: 193:

would be quite odd. And artists certainly did not "discard" heroines. (If anything,

2985: 326:

so irregularly, you never knew when she was going to show up. But when she came to

71: 2173: 889:

Guess so, lol. Might need some help teasing out the hyper-relevant bits, though.

1595:

English-language gay activists etc. I've tried to condense the yaoi ronsou into

1962: 1525:

Comics" (New York Conference on Asian Studies, New Paltz, New York, October 16).

767: 597: 2424:

Comics" (New York Conference on Asian Studies, New Paltz, New York, October 16)

2618: 717:

Need some examples here! The only one in my bibliography is my own 2004 paper!

2784:

I just did a search in Japanese for "Choisir" and "yaoi ronsou" and found an

1244:

as playing a role in how she herself had become a lesbian. Welker added that

686:, it sounds like we do share a similar viewpoint. I'll have to get the book. 458: 3014:

The new YAOI stuff needs some reference-fixing. That will need Matt to do.

1912:

TORIYAMA Akira 2002 Doragonbo-ru: Dragonball. Tokyo: Shueisha. Volume One.

3379:

You both did a great job. Thanks! I finished my translation job (est em's

572: 3119: 2237:

1991 "'Penguin in Bondage': A Graphic Tale of Japanese Comic Books." (In

1547:

Also, I'm going to have to take Suzuki back to the library today, sigh. -

954: 892: 2343:: Teenage girls, romance comics, and contemporary Japanese culture." In 2805:

now... But I would say that Lunsing is more pro-yaoi than Vincent is. -

2785: 1414:(An Elusive Theory of Yaoi: The view from Yaoi). Tokyo: Natsume Shobo, 2381:

Japanese Visual Culture: Explorations In the World of Manga and Anime.

2345:

Japanese Visual Culture: Explorations In the World of Manga and Anime.

2303:(An Elusive Theory of Yaoi: The view from Yaoi). Tokyo: Natsume Shobo. 1240:

character as "queer", observing that manga critic Akiko Mizoguchi saw

2383:

Edited by Mark W. MacWilliams. Armonk, NY: M.E. Sharpe. pp. 114-136.

2347:

Edited by Mark W. MacWilliams. Armonk, NY: M.E. Sharpe. pp. 137-154.

2148: 2023:

Currently in the article there's a section on the yaoi ronsou called

660: 80:

This paragraph is by Matt or Malkinann? It's supposed to go into the

2241:. C. Penley and A. Ross, eds. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota.) 2152:

fiction?), but I think it's Kinsella who takes it that extra step. -

1600: 395:

in the context of her actively making decisions about her own life.

145:, which may or may not fit the pattern described by Hideko Suzuki. - 2474:. This is to be used for the Yaoi article as suggested by Timothy. 2435:

Fanning the Flames: Fans and Consumer Culture in Contemporary Japan

2056:

but I can't find more English-language scholarship on the ronsou. -

1435:. C. Penley and A. Ross, eds. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota 1285:

Fanning the Flames: Fans and Consumer Culture in Contemporary Japan

1876:

Some comments about the new material and answers to some questions

1680: 552:

BTW, our "eroticism" paper is available for the low, low price of

2365:

Themes and Issues in Asian Cartooning: Cute, Cheap, Mad, and Sexy

1085:

term for BL, yaoi, shonen-ai, and so on. We also need to add the

3401: 2622: 2580: 2547: 2363:

1999. “Cute but Deadly: Women and Violence in Japanese Comics.”

2024: 1596: 1255: 668: 81: 3367:? I'm real glad you added that note to the Marimite talk page! 2271:

Mechademia: An Academic Forum for Anime, Manga and the Fan Arts

1479:

Intersections: Gender, History and Culture in the Asian Context

744:

Buckley, writing in 1991, suggested that, "he objective of the

3298:

Malkinann took the initiative on this one. Thanks, Malkinann.

1348:("Women and Expression"). N. MIZUTA, ed. Tokyo: Gakuyō Shobō, 2772:

material, and add it in as an NPOV balance to Satou's views.

1287:, William W. Kelly, ed., State University of New York Press. 2437:, William W. Kelly, ed., State University of New York Press) 2409:

1993 "Josei wa gei ga suki!?" (Women Like Gays!?). ????

1307:. pages 100-101 Tokyo and New York: Kodansha International. 264:

Here's an excerpt from my interview with Hagio about Ōshima:

1717:

Then, once the references are complete, Matt gets to make

3465:

The Zodiac thing is settling down. Bloody damn nuisance.

197:

inspired other artists, who thought, "Wow! If she can do

1902:

book and no other. In this case, a de luxe edition of

1656:(they're going to *slay* me, aren't they?) and then a 1368:. (1993) "Josei wa gei ga suki!?" (Women Like Gays!?) 930:

Great! Now boil that all down to one sentence. (^o^)

558:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/30p8x1878nbjlrax/

1632:

OK, we remove the McLelland ref. No problem at all.

1327:("Quarterly City II"), Tokyo: Kawade Shobō Shinsha, 296:

and all those short stories. They were a real shock.

2502:Looks great. I say we go with it as is. Malkinann? 2212:

So that we can see our beautiful references here! -

715:available in the first decade of the 21st Century. 534:portrayals of shōjo self-determination and agency. 1691:the references are all in and numbered correctly, 663:writes about lesbians and BL manga, and Suzuki is 292:, but she moved over to Shogakukan, where she did 1887:http://www.isbn-center.jp/cgi-bin/isbndb/isbn.cgi 1383:Millennium Girls: Today's Girls Around the World 811:thinking it was awful. Then in got published in 659:Yeah, oops. I don't use sandboxes that much. 275: 1539:something yesterday which was interesting... 1456:Signs: Journal of Women in Culture and Society 2326:. Tokyo and New York: Kodansha International. 541:there about YAOI (figuring that some of them 322:, and it was incredible, but she appeared in 8: 432:in female autonomy, based on a really quite 1826:different. Do we need an "Appeal" section? 1346:New Feminism Review, Vol. 2: Onna to hyōgen 1279: 1277: 2486:I Added the "Debate" Material to Sandbox 2 2324:Manga! Manga! The World Of Japanese Comics 1450: 1448: 1385:. London: Rowman & Littlefield, p.246 1305:Manga! Manga! The World Of Japanese Comics 1967:the Manual of Style for Japanese articles 624:Your brilliant and concise overview here! 1891:An ISBN has several parts. For example, 1492:A Japanese Electra and Her Queer Progeny 399:disregard when looking at this history. 3221:on Taiwan, Germany and China - there's 3215:comparisons of yaoi with romance novels 1660:- hopefully it won't cause a ronsou. - 1273: 640:how gay identity is portrayed in yaoi, 573:http://kinseyinstitute.org/ccies/jp.php 3064:gay men - whether that's sufficiently 1658:reassessment from the LGBT wikiproject 1654:Knowledge:WikiProject Citation cleanup 1335:. Cited and translated in Thorn, 2004. 141:says something about Yumiko Ooshima's 2934:Looks great to me. I say plug it in! 7: 3458:I have some doujinshi references at 3451:"verifiability" tag is needed -- we 3153:Are we ready to insert new material? 1579:found a lengthy summary in Japanese 1130:These are tricky and are one of the 3460:User:Timothy Perper/SandboxDojinshi 2598:OK, I'll make that change. Thanks! 2280:International Journal of Comic Art. 2265:Perper, Timothy and Martha Cornog 1056:- more popular than Ghostbusters! - 524:The Song of the Wind and the Trees, 414:a forthcoming paper of ours in the 2375:2008 "Opening the closed world of 817:Permitted & Prohibited Desires 497:The Song of the Wind and the Trees 416:International Journal of Comic Art 24: 3069:"appeal" and "debate" sections? - 2301:Yaoi genron: yaoi kara mieta mono 1412:Yaoi genron: yaoi kara mieta mono 503:be included in the Yaoi article. 2172:I just discovered a book titled 667:, who I've been citing all over 337:So you were stunned by her work? 2208:Reference Listed Alphabetically 1696:just found and corrected one). 786:What does "he objective of the 766:Welker, in 2006, described the 485:How much and what to say about 47:Shōjo Manga in Japanese Society 3475:) 13:24, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 3446:Further Readings for Yaoi page 3375:) 22:08, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 3275:) 15:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC) 3169:) 22:52, 17 August 2008 (UTC) 3114:) 11:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC) 3040:) 03:49, 15 August 2008 (UTC) 3024:) 02:39, 15 August 2008 (UTC) 2957:material on Matt's Sandbox 3? 2910:) 06:56, 13 August 2008 (UTC)" 2875:) 14:41, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 2780:) 14:31, 13 August 2008 (UTC) 2650:) 04:52, 13 August 2008 (UTC) 2575:) 21:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2498:) 11:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2482:) 05:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC) 2186:) 11:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2051:) 11:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC) 1988:) 09:05, 10 August 2008 (UTC) 1955:) 07:41, 10 August 2008 (UTC) 1: 3497:) 18:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 3437:) 07:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 3412:) 03:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 3393:) 00:55, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 3351:) 20:23, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 3325:) 15:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 3306:) 04:21, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 3291:) 19:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC) 3257:) 14:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC) 3233:) 01:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC) 3201:) 23:54, 17 August 2008 (UTC) 3185:) 22:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC) 3146:) 13:22, 15 August 2008 (UTC) 3131:) 11:16, 15 August 2008 (UTC) 3097:) 09:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC) 3077:) 08:27, 15 August 2008 (UTC) 3056:) 05:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC) 2996:) 22:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 2965:) 20:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 2942:) 16:31, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 2927:) 15:19, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 2856:) 13:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 2833:) 11:30, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 2813:) 01:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC) 2797:) 14:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC) 2786:interesting little blog entry 2759:) 13:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC) 2731:) 07:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC) 2707:) 06:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC) 2688:) 05:49, 13 August 2008 (UTC) 2663:) 05:11, 13 August 2008 (UTC) 2633:) 22:54, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2606:) 22:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2591:) 22:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2558:) 21:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2535:) 17:02, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2510:) 14:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2220:) 23:50, 4 August 2008 (UTC) 2203:) 23:51, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2160:) 23:51, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2128:) 05:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2100:) 03:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2080:) 02:08, 12 August 2008 (UTC) 2064:) 21:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC) 2035:) 10:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC) 2016:) 15:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC) 2000:) 15:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC) 1863:) 05:16, 10 August 2008 (UTC) 1834:) 05:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC) 1628:) 21:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC) 1591:) 01:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC) 1097:) 13:26, 7 August 2008 (UTC) 978:) 06:23, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 965:) 03:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 782:) 06:23, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 679:) 02:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 656:) 01:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 633:) 23:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC) 588:) 17:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 409:) 13:00, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 92:) 11:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 61:) 02:19, 1 August 2008 (UTC) 38:Proposed new section for the 34:) 02:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC) 1909:The full reference would be 1793:) 22:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC) 1769:) 12:14, 9 August 2008 (UTC) 1668:) 00:50, 9 August 2008 (UTC) 1640:) 00:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC) 1611:) 13:14, 8 August 2008 (UTC) 1555:) 21:19, 7 August 2008 (UTC) 1201:) 07:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC) 1114:) 04:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC) 1064:) 21:38, 7 August 2008 (UTC) 1032:) 13:13, 7 August 2008 (UTC) 1008:) 12:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC) 989:) 06:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 938:) 02:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 907:) 11:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 870:) 10:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 847:) 10:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 799:) 05:43, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 694:) 02:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 609:) 21:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 567:A more accessible paper is: 511:) 02:34, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 474:) 23:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 449:) 18:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 364:) 12:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 328:Special Edition Girls' Comic 242:) 12:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 213:) 12:36, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 153:) 12:13, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 122:) 11:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 103:) 11:48, 5 August 2008 (UTC) 1303:Schodt, Frederik L. (1983) 1089:names of the people cited. 3514: 3028:Finalizing the Referencing 1410:Sakakibara Shihomi (1998) 52:Your brilliant prose here! 3481:User:Matt Thorn/Sandbox 4 3120:on the Korean yaoi fandom 3046:User:Matt Thorn/Sandbox 2 2472:User:Matt Thorn/Sandbox 2 1507:Mizoguchi, Akiko. (2003) 1458:vol. 31, no. 3. page 843. 1054:wikipedia's popular pages 556:from Springer-Verlag < 379:I don't think we want to 1601:US-Japan Women's Journal 344:I was. It was beautiful. 1490:Vincent, Keith (2007) " 727:Fujimoto 1991 moved ref 201:, then surely I can do 3382:Red Blinds the Foolish 3044:Got it! I fixed it in 1481:Issue 12, January 2006 376:More cross-editing... 346: 594:From Eroica with Love 294:You Can Hear the Rain 3365:Maria-sama ga Miteru 3223:one paper in Swedish 2335:2008 "Situating the 2312:Schodt, Frederik L. 1474:. See Lunsing, Wim. 764:Moved Thorn 2004 ref 737:Sakakibara moved ref 318:was one she did for 2359:Shiokawa, Kanoko. 2289:Sakakibara Shihomi 1545:Mizoguchi ref moved 759:moved Thorn1993 ref 722:Ueno 1989 moved ref 642:moved McLelland ref 3219:forthcoming papers 2619:June outsells Badi 2371:Takahashi, Mizuki 1372:, June, pp. 82-83. 1223:Frederik L. Schodt 1077:Edited for Brevity 731:Takemiya moved ref 619:Critical Attention 3159:Knowledge:Be Bold 2389:978-0-7656-1602-9 2353:978-0-7656-1602-9 2331:Shamoon, Deborah 1573:Thorn (2004): 180 837:Kaze to Ki no Uta 750:Moved Buckley ref 682:Just reading the 528:Berusaiyu no Bara 69:Suzuki describes 18:User:Rachel Thorn 3505: 3118:Sueen Noh wrote 3066:common knowledge 2250:Fujimoto Yukari 2227:Buckley, Sandra 2175:BL shin nihonshi 1978: 1972: 1685:History of manga 1527: 1521: 1515: 1505: 1499: 1488: 1482: 1465: 1459: 1452: 1443: 1429: 1423: 1408: 1402: 1379: 1373: 1363: 1357: 1342: 1336: 1321: 1315: 1301: 1295: 1281: 773:Welker ref moved 742:Schodt ref moved 638:moved Welker ref 67:Suzuki ref moved 3513: 3512: 3508: 3507: 3506: 3504: 3503: 3502: 3448: 3155: 3030: 2893:basket. Surely 2488: 2468: 2466:Added Sandbox 2 2399:Takemiya Keiko 2210: 1976: 1970: 1878: 1567:Schodt: 100-101 1532: 1530: 1522: 1518: 1506: 1502: 1489: 1485: 1466: 1462: 1453: 1446: 1430: 1426: 1409: 1405: 1380: 1376: 1366:Takemiya, Keiko 1364: 1360: 1343: 1339: 1322: 1318: 1302: 1298: 1282: 1275: 1079: 833:Heart of Thomas 621: 616: 464:Sequential Tart 338: 331: 308: 297: 282: 243: 139:a little birdie 49: 44: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3511: 3509: 3501: 3500: 3499: 3498: 3491:Timothy Perper 3484: 3483: 3469:Timothy Perper 3447: 3444: 3443: 3442: 3441: 3440: 3439: 3438: 3416: 3415: 3414: 3413: 3406:Timothy Perper 3395: 3394: 3369:Timothy Perper 3361: 3360: 3359: 3358: 3357: 3356: 3355: 3354: 3353: 3352: 3331: 3330: 3329: 3328: 3327: 3326: 3319:Timothy Perper 3310: 3309: 3308: 3307: 3293: 3292: 3285:Timothy Perper 3269:Timothy Perper 3265: 3264: 3263: 3262: 3261: 3260: 3259: 3258: 3239: 3238: 3237: 3236: 3235: 3234: 3205: 3204: 3203: 3202: 3187: 3186: 3179:Timothy Perper 3163:Timothy Perper 3154: 3151: 3150: 3149: 3148: 3147: 3133: 3132: 3108:Timothy Perper 3103: 3102: 3101: 3100: 3099: 3098: 3081: 3080: 3079: 3078: 3058: 3057: 3034:Timothy Perper 3029: 3026: 3018:Timothy Perper 3004: 3003: 3002: 3001: 3000: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2971: 2970: 2969: 2968: 2967: 2966: 2959:Timothy Perper 2946: 2945: 2944: 2943: 2929: 2928: 2921:Timothy Perper 2916: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2904:Timothy Perper 2882: 2881: 2869:Timothy Perper 2864: 2863: 2862: 2861: 2860: 2859: 2858: 2857: 2839: 2838: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2817: 2816: 2815: 2814: 2799: 2798: 2774:Timothy Perper 2769: 2768: 2767: 2766: 2765: 2764: 2763: 2762: 2761: 2760: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2736: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2713: 2712: 2711: 2710: 2709: 2708: 2701:Timothy Perper 2692: 2691: 2690: 2689: 2682:Timothy Perper 2675: 2674: 2673: 2672: 2665: 2664: 2644:Timothy Perper 2639: 2638: 2637: 2636: 2635: 2634: 2610: 2609: 2608: 2607: 2600:Timothy Perper 2593: 2592: 2569:Timothy Perper 2564: 2563: 2562: 2561: 2560: 2559: 2539: 2538: 2537: 2536: 2529:Timothy Perper 2522: 2521: 2520: 2519: 2512: 2511: 2492:Timothy Perper 2487: 2484: 2467: 2464: 2463: 2462: 2440: 2439: 2427: 2412: 2411: 2393: 2392: 2369: 2368: 2357: 2356: 2329: 2328: 2306: 2305: 2283: 2282: 2275: 2274: 2263: 2262: 2244: 2243: 2209: 2206: 2205: 2204: 2170: 2169: 2168: 2167: 2166: 2165: 2164: 2163: 2162: 2161: 2136: 2135: 2134: 2133: 2132: 2131: 2130: 2129: 2106: 2105: 2104: 2103: 2102: 2101: 2084: 2083: 2082: 2081: 2074:Timothy Perper 2066: 2065: 2045:Timothy Perper 2037: 2036: 2020: 2019: 2018: 2017: 2002: 2001: 1994:Timothy Perper 1949:Timothy Perper 1877: 1874: 1873: 1872: 1871: 1870: 1869: 1868: 1867: 1866: 1865: 1864: 1844: 1843: 1842: 1841: 1840: 1839: 1838: 1837: 1836: 1835: 1801: 1800: 1799: 1798: 1797: 1796: 1795: 1794: 1775: 1774: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1763:Timothy Perper 1755: 1754: 1753: 1752: 1751: 1750: 1742: 1741: 1740: 1739: 1738: 1737: 1728: 1727: 1726: 1725: 1724: 1723: 1710: 1709: 1708: 1707: 1706: 1705: 1672: 1671: 1670: 1669: 1642: 1641: 1634:Timothy Perper 1617: 1616: 1615: 1614: 1613: 1612: 1576: 1575: 1574: 1571: 1568: 1559: 1558: 1557: 1556: 1529: 1528: 1516: 1513:Japan Sessions 1500: 1483: 1460: 1444: 1424: 1403: 1374: 1358: 1337: 1325:Kikan Toshi II 1316: 1296: 1272: 1266: 1265: 1250: 1249: 1228: 1227: 1205: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1195:Timothy Perper 1189: 1188: 1187: 1186: 1180: 1179: 1178: 1177: 1170: 1169: 1168: 1167: 1160: 1159: 1158: 1157: 1150: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1140:no matter what 1125: 1124: 1123: 1122: 1116: 1115: 1108:Timothy Perper 1091:Timothy Perper 1078: 1075: 1074: 1073: 1072: 1071: 1070: 1069: 1068: 1067: 1066: 1065: 1040: 1039: 1038: 1037: 1036: 1035: 1034: 1033: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 1009: 1002:Timothy Perper 993: 992: 991: 990: 950: 949: 948: 947: 946: 945: 944: 943: 942: 941: 940: 939: 917: 916: 915: 914: 913: 912: 911: 910: 909: 908: 878: 877: 876: 875: 874: 873: 872: 871: 853: 852: 851: 850: 849: 848: 823: 822: 821: 820: 801: 800: 703:Here's Matt's 700: 699: 698: 697: 696: 695: 620: 617: 615: 612: 611: 610: 582:Timothy Perper 564:-good-paper. 517: 516: 515: 514: 513: 512: 478: 477: 476: 475: 451: 450: 443:Timothy Perper 403:Timothy Perper 374: 373: 372: 371: 370: 369: 368: 367: 366: 365: 274: 273: 272: 271: 270: 269: 268: 267: 266: 265: 253: 252: 251: 250: 249: 248: 247: 246: 245: 244: 223: 222: 221: 220: 219: 218: 217: 216: 215: 214: 161: 160: 159: 158: 157: 156: 155: 154: 128: 127: 126: 125: 124: 123: 116:Timothy Perper 107: 106: 105: 104: 86:Timothy Perper 48: 45: 43: 36: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3510: 3496: 3492: 3488: 3487: 3486: 3485: 3482: 3478: 3477: 3476: 3474: 3470: 3466: 3463: 3461: 3456: 3454: 3445: 3436: 3432: 3427: 3422: 3421: 3420: 3419: 3418: 3417: 3411: 3407: 3403: 3399: 3398: 3397: 3396: 3392: 3388: 3384: 3383: 3378: 3377: 3376: 3374: 3370: 3366: 3350: 3346: 3341: 3340: 3339: 3338: 3337: 3336: 3335: 3334: 3333: 3332: 3324: 3320: 3316: 3315: 3314: 3313: 3312: 3311: 3305: 3301: 3297: 3296: 3295: 3294: 3290: 3286: 3281: 3278: 3277: 3276: 3274: 3270: 3256: 3252: 3247: 3246: 3245: 3244: 3243: 3242: 3241: 3240: 3232: 3228: 3224: 3220: 3216: 3211: 3210: 3209: 3208: 3207: 3206: 3200: 3196: 3191: 3190: 3189: 3188: 3184: 3180: 3176: 3172: 3171: 3170: 3168: 3164: 3160: 3152: 3145: 3141: 3137: 3136: 3135: 3134: 3130: 3126: 3121: 3117: 3116: 3115: 3113: 3109: 3096: 3092: 3087: 3086: 3085: 3084: 3083: 3082: 3076: 3072: 3067: 3062: 3061: 3060: 3059: 3055: 3051: 3047: 3043: 3042: 3041: 3039: 3035: 3027: 3025: 3023: 3019: 3015: 3012: 3009: 2995: 2991: 2987: 2983: 2979: 2978: 2977: 2976: 2975: 2974: 2973: 2972: 2964: 2960: 2956: 2952: 2951: 2950: 2949: 2948: 2947: 2941: 2937: 2933: 2932: 2931: 2930: 2926: 2922: 2918: 2917: 2909: 2905: 2901: 2896: 2892: 2888: 2887: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2874: 2870: 2855: 2851: 2847: 2846: 2845: 2844: 2843: 2842: 2841: 2840: 2832: 2828: 2823: 2822: 2821: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2812: 2808: 2803: 2802: 2801: 2800: 2796: 2792: 2787: 2783: 2782: 2781: 2779: 2775: 2758: 2754: 2749: 2748: 2747: 2746: 2745: 2744: 2743: 2742: 2741: 2740: 2730: 2726: 2721: 2720: 2719: 2718: 2717: 2716: 2715: 2714: 2706: 2702: 2698: 2697: 2696: 2695: 2694: 2693: 2687: 2683: 2679: 2678: 2677: 2676: 2669: 2668: 2667: 2666: 2662: 2658: 2653: 2652: 2651: 2649: 2645: 2632: 2628: 2624: 2620: 2616: 2615: 2614: 2613: 2612: 2611: 2605: 2601: 2597: 2596: 2595: 2594: 2590: 2586: 2582: 2578: 2577: 2576: 2574: 2570: 2557: 2553: 2549: 2545: 2544: 2543: 2542: 2541: 2540: 2534: 2530: 2526: 2525: 2524: 2523: 2516: 2515: 2514: 2513: 2509: 2505: 2501: 2500: 2499: 2497: 2493: 2485: 2483: 2481: 2477: 2473: 2465: 2461: 2459: 2454: 2453: 2451: 2450: 2448: 2447: 2446:Ueno Chizuko 2444: 2438: 2436: 2431: 2428: 2426: 2425: 2420: 2417: 2416: 2415: 2410: 2407: 2406: 2404: 2403: 2401: 2400: 2397: 2390: 2386: 2382: 2378: 2374: 2373: 2372: 2366: 2362: 2361: 2360: 2354: 2350: 2346: 2342: 2338: 2334: 2333: 2332: 2327: 2325: 2320: 2319: 2317: 2316: 2314: 2313: 2310: 2304: 2302: 2297: 2296: 2294: 2293: 2291: 2290: 2287: 2281: 2277: 2276: 2272: 2268: 2267: 2266: 2261: 2258: 2257: 2255: 2254: 2252: 2251: 2248: 2242: 2240: 2239:Technoculture 2235: 2234: 2232: 2231: 2229: 2228: 2225: 2221: 2219: 2215: 2207: 2202: 2198: 2193: 2189: 2188: 2187: 2185: 2181: 2177: 2176: 2159: 2155: 2150: 2146: 2145: 2144: 2143: 2142: 2141: 2140: 2139: 2138: 2137: 2127: 2123: 2118: 2114: 2113: 2112: 2111: 2110: 2109: 2108: 2107: 2099: 2095: 2090: 2089: 2088: 2087: 2086: 2085: 2079: 2075: 2070: 2069: 2068: 2067: 2063: 2059: 2054: 2053: 2052: 2050: 2046: 2042: 2034: 2030: 2026: 2022: 2021: 2015: 2011: 2006: 2005: 2004: 2003: 1999: 1995: 1991: 1990: 1989: 1987: 1983: 1975: 1968: 1964: 1960: 1956: 1954: 1950: 1945: 1942: 1940: 1934: 1931: 1926: 1925:Verifiability 1921: 1919: 1918:4-08-873444-0 1915: 1910: 1907: 1905: 1899: 1898: 1897:4-08-873444-0 1894: 1889: 1888: 1884: 1881: 1875: 1862: 1858: 1854: 1853: 1852: 1851: 1850: 1849: 1848: 1847: 1846: 1845: 1833: 1829: 1825: 1821: 1816: 1811: 1810: 1809: 1808: 1807: 1806: 1805: 1804: 1803: 1802: 1792: 1788: 1783: 1782: 1781: 1780: 1779: 1778: 1777: 1776: 1768: 1764: 1761: 1760: 1759: 1758: 1757: 1756: 1748: 1747: 1746: 1745: 1744: 1743: 1734: 1733: 1732: 1731: 1730: 1729: 1720: 1716: 1715: 1714: 1713: 1712: 1711: 1703: 1699: 1694: 1690: 1686: 1682: 1678: 1677: 1676: 1675: 1674: 1673: 1667: 1663: 1659: 1655: 1650: 1646: 1645: 1644: 1643: 1639: 1635: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1627: 1623: 1610: 1606: 1602: 1598: 1593: 1592: 1590: 1586: 1582: 1577: 1572: 1569: 1566: 1565: 1563: 1562: 1561: 1560: 1554: 1550: 1546: 1543: 1537: 1536: 1535: 1534: 1533: 1526: 1520: 1517: 1514: 1510: 1504: 1501: 1497: 1496:Mechademia, 2 1493: 1487: 1484: 1480: 1477: 1473: 1469: 1464: 1461: 1457: 1451: 1449: 1445: 1442: 1441:0-8166-1932-8 1438: 1434: 1433:Technoculture 1428: 1425: 1421: 1417: 1413: 1407: 1404: 1400: 1396: 1392: 1388: 1384: 1378: 1375: 1371: 1370:Bungei shunjū 1367: 1362: 1359: 1355: 1351: 1347: 1341: 1338: 1334: 1330: 1326: 1320: 1317: 1314: 1313:0-87011-752-1 1310: 1306: 1300: 1297: 1294: 1290: 1286: 1280: 1278: 1274: 1271: 1270: 1263: 1262:slash fiction 1258: 1257: 1252: 1251: 1247: 1243: 1239: 1235: 1230: 1229: 1224: 1220: 1216: 1212: 1211: 1210: 1209: 1200: 1196: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1181: 1176:bibliography. 1174: 1173: 1172: 1171: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1161: 1154: 1153: 1152: 1151: 1145: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1129: 1128: 1127: 1126: 1120: 1119: 1118: 1117: 1113: 1109: 1106:More coming. 1105: 1100: 1099: 1098: 1096: 1092: 1088: 1084: 1076: 1063: 1059: 1055: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1047: 1046: 1045: 1044: 1043: 1042: 1041: 1031: 1027: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1019: 1018: 1017: 1016: 1015: 1007: 1003: 999: 998: 997: 996: 995: 994: 988: 984: 980: 979: 977: 973: 968: 967: 966: 964: 960: 956: 937: 933: 929: 928: 927: 926: 925: 924: 923: 922: 921: 920: 919: 918: 906: 902: 897: 894: 888: 887: 886: 885: 884: 883: 882: 881: 880: 879: 869: 865: 861: 860: 859: 858: 857: 856: 855: 854: 846: 842: 838: 834: 829: 828: 827: 826: 825: 824: 818: 814: 813:Technoculture 809: 805: 804: 803: 802: 798: 794: 789: 785: 784: 783: 781: 777: 774: 769: 765: 760: 756: 751: 747: 743: 738: 733: 732: 728: 723: 718: 712: 711: 709: 706: 693: 689: 685: 681: 680: 678: 674: 670: 666: 665:Kazuko Suzuki 662: 658: 657: 655: 651: 647: 646: 645: 643: 639: 634: 632: 628: 625: 618: 613: 608: 604: 599: 595: 591: 590: 589: 587: 583: 579: 576: 574: 568: 565: 563: 559: 555: 550: 547: 544: 538: 535: 533: 529: 525: 522: 510: 506: 502: 498: 493: 488: 484: 483: 482: 481: 480: 479: 473: 469: 465: 460: 455: 454: 453: 452: 448: 444: 440: 435: 431: 426: 421: 417: 412: 411: 410: 408: 404: 400: 396: 394: 390: 386: 382: 377: 363: 359: 356: 355: 354: 353: 352: 351: 350: 349: 348: 347: 345: 343: 339: 336: 332: 329: 325: 321: 317: 313: 309: 306: 303:Stories like 302: 298: 295: 291: 287: 283: 279: 263: 262: 261: 260: 259: 258: 257: 256: 255: 254: 241: 237: 233: 232: 231: 230: 229: 228: 227: 226: 225: 224: 212: 208: 204: 200: 196: 192: 187: 183: 179: 175: 171: 170: 169: 168: 167: 166: 165: 164: 163: 162: 152: 148: 144: 140: 136: 135: 134: 133: 132: 131: 130: 129: 121: 117: 113: 112: 111: 110: 109: 108: 102: 98: 94: 93: 91: 87: 83: 79: 78: 77: 74: 73: 68: 62: 60: 56: 53: 46: 41: 37: 35: 33: 29: 19: 3467: 3464: 3457: 3452: 3449: 3425: 3381: 3362: 3279: 3266: 3174: 3156: 3104: 3031: 3016: 3013: 3007: 3005: 2982:weasel words 2954: 2899: 2894: 2890: 2865: 2770: 2640: 2565: 2489: 2469: 2457: 2455: 2452: 2449: 2445: 2442: 2441: 2434: 2432: 2429: 2423: 2421: 2418: 2414:Thorn, Matt 2413: 2408: 2405: 2402: 2398: 2395: 2394: 2380: 2376: 2370: 2364: 2358: 2344: 2340: 2336: 2330: 2323: 2321: 2318: 2315: 2311: 2308: 2307: 2300: 2298: 2295: 2292: 2288: 2285: 2284: 2279: 2273:, 2:201-214. 2270: 2264: 2259: 2256: 2253: 2249: 2246: 2245: 2238: 2236: 2233: 2230: 2226: 2223: 2222: 2211: 2174: 2171: 2116: 2040: 2038: 1977:}} 1971:{{ 1957: 1947:More later. 1946: 1943: 1938: 1935: 1929: 1924: 1922: 1911: 1908: 1903: 1900: 1890: 1885: 1882: 1879: 1823: 1819: 1814: 1718: 1701: 1697: 1692: 1688: 1648: 1618: 1570:Buckley: 177 1544: 1542:homophobic". 1540: 1531: 1524: 1519: 1512: 1503: 1495: 1486: 1478: 1471: 1467: 1463: 1455: 1432: 1427: 1411: 1406: 1382: 1377: 1369: 1361: 1345: 1340: 1324: 1319: 1304: 1299: 1284: 1268: 1267: 1254: 1245: 1241: 1237: 1233: 1218: 1214: 1207: 1206: 1143: 1139: 1135: 1131: 1104:yaoi ronsou. 1103: 1086: 1082: 1080: 951: 890: 836: 832: 816: 812: 807: 787: 772: 763: 758: 754: 749: 745: 741: 736: 734: 730: 726: 721: 716: 713: 710:third draft: 707: 704: 702: 701: 661:James Welker 641: 637: 635: 623: 622: 580: 577: 569: 566: 561: 553: 551: 548: 542: 539: 536: 531: 527: 523: 520: 518: 500: 496: 491: 486: 463: 438: 433: 429: 425:displacement 424: 419: 415: 401: 397: 392: 388: 384: 380: 378: 375: 341: 340: 334: 333: 327: 323: 319: 315: 311: 310: 304: 300: 299: 293: 289: 285: 284: 277: 276: 202: 198: 194: 190: 185: 181: 177: 174:Attack No. 1 173: 142: 84:entry, yes? 72:Attack No. 1 70: 66: 63: 51: 50: 25: 2458:Kikan Toshi 2377:shōjo manga 2341:shōjo manga 2025:Yaoi#Debate 1904:Dragon Ball 1597:Yaoi#Debate 1472:yaoi debate 1156:originally. 314:Yes, well, 40:shōjo manga 3387:Matt Thorn 3300:Matt Thorn 3251:Matt Thorn 3195:Matt Thorn 3140:Matt Thorn 3091:Matt Thorn 3050:Matt Thorn 2936:Matt Thorn 2827:Matt Thorn 2791:Matt Thorn 2753:Matt Thorn 2504:Matt Thorn 2476:Matt Thorn 2180:Matt Thorn 2122:Matt Thorn 2010:Matt Thorn 1857:Matt Thorn 1828:Matt Thorn 1649:incredibly 1585:Matt Thorn 1468:Yaoi ronsō 1420:4931391427 1399:0847691373 1391:0847691365 1354:4313840427 1333:4309902227 1293:0791460320 1269:References 1256:yaoi ronsō 1026:Matt Thorn 972:Matt Thorn 932:Matt Thorn 864:Matt Thorn 776:Matt Thorn 740:stories." 688:Matt Thorn 650:Matt Thorn 627:Matt Thorn 614:Yaoi stuff 598:notability 505:Matt Thorn 393:especially 381:generalize 358:Matt Thorn 236:Matt Thorn 207:Matt Thorn 55:Matt Thorn 28:Matt Thorn 3431:Malkinann 3345:Malkinann 3227:Malkinann 3125:Malkinann 3071:Malkinann 2990:Malkinann 2891:anti-yaoi 2880:mistake). 2850:Malkinann 2807:Malkinann 2725:Malkinann 2657:Malkinann 2627:Malkinann 2585:Malkinann 2552:Malkinann 2460:, no. 2., 2214:Malkinann 2197:Malkinann 2154:Malkinann 2094:Malkinann 2058:Malkinann 2029:Malkinann 1982:Malkinann 1820:extremely 1787:Malkinann 1662:Malkinann 1622:Malkinann 1605:Malkinann 1549:Malkinann 1246:shōnen-ai 1242:shōnen-ai 1215:shōnen-ai 1058:Malkinann 983:Malkinann 959:Malkinann 901:Malkinann 841:Malkinann 793:Malkinann 673:Malkinann 603:Malkinann 468:Malkinann 459:Talk:Yaoi 147:Malkinann 97:Malkinann 2581:minikomi 2518:"Satou." 1498:pp.64-79 1238:bishōnen 1234:bishōnen 1146:of work. 957:... ^^ - 955:bishonen 893:aesthete 808:strongly 788:bishōnen 768:bishōnen 757:there." 746:bishōnen 684:abstract 532:expanded 439:GORGEOUS 430:exercise 324:Margaret 320:Margaret 290:Margaret 281:artists? 3426:concede 2895:someone 2470:Here's 2041:fujoshi 1974:Nihongo 1959:WP:ISBN 1719:another 1698:Second, 42:article 3479:Done! 2900:That's 2387: 2379:." In 2351: 2149:YKINOK 2117:Doctor 1916: 1895: 1736:worse. 1689:First, 1470:means 1439: 1418: 1397: 1389: 1352: 1331: 1311: 1291: 1166:right. 1083:single 708:second 521:Tanjō, 487:Tanjō! 434:erotic 389:Tanjō! 385:Tanjō! 383:about 342:Hagio: 335:Thorn: 316:Birth! 312:Hagio: 305:Birth! 301:Thorn: 286:Hagio: 278:Thorn: 195:Tanjō! 191:Tanjō! 182:Tanjō! 178:Tanjō! 3175:josei 2986:WP:RS 2955:josei 2337:shōjo 2322:1986 2299:1998 1681:manga 1132:major 1087:given 755:thing 705:first 575:> 492:Tanjō 420:kinds 143:Birth 16:< 3495:talk 3473:talk 3435:talk 3410:talk 3402:Yaoi 3391:talk 3373:talk 3349:talk 3323:talk 3304:talk 3289:talk 3280:Oops 3273:talk 3255:talk 3231:talk 3199:talk 3183:talk 3167:talk 3144:talk 3129:talk 3112:talk 3095:talk 3075:talk 3054:talk 3038:talk 3022:talk 2994:talk 2963:talk 2940:talk 2925:talk 2908:talk 2873:talk 2854:talk 2831:talk 2811:talk 2795:talk 2778:talk 2757:talk 2729:talk 2705:talk 2686:talk 2661:talk 2648:talk 2631:talk 2623:NSFW 2604:talk 2589:talk 2573:talk 2556:talk 2548:zine 2533:talk 2508:talk 2496:talk 2480:talk 2385:ISBN 2349:ISBN 2218:talk 2201:talk 2191:men. 2184:talk 2158:talk 2126:talk 2098:talk 2078:talk 2062:talk 2049:talk 2033:talk 2014:talk 1998:talk 1986:talk 1965:and 1963:WP:V 1953:talk 1923:(2) 1914:ISBN 1893:ISBN 1861:talk 1832:talk 1824:very 1791:talk 1767:talk 1683:and 1666:talk 1638:talk 1626:talk 1609:talk 1589:talk 1581:here 1553:talk 1437:ISBN 1416:ISBN 1395:ISBN 1387:ISBN 1350:ISBN 1329:ISBN 1309:ISBN 1289:ISBN 1219:yaoi 1213:BL ( 1208:Text 1199:talk 1112:talk 1095:talk 1062:talk 1030:talk 1006:talk 987:talk 976:talk 963:talk 936:talk 905:talk 868:talk 845:talk 835:and 797:talk 780:talk 692:talk 677:talk 669:yaoi 654:talk 631:talk 607:talk 586:talk 571:< 562:$ 32 554:$ 32 526:and 509:talk 501:must 472:talk 447:talk 407:talk 362:talk 240:talk 211:talk 203:that 199:this 186:what 151:talk 120:talk 101:talk 90:talk 82:Yaoi 59:talk 32:talk 3008:not 2621:, ( 2339:in 1939:lot 1930:all 1815:you 1702:NOT 1693:but 1144:lot 1136:any 543:had 466:. - 3453:do 3048:. 2443:In 2430:In 2419:In 2396:In 2309:In 2286:In 2247:In 2224:In 1920:. 1511:. 1494:" 1447:^ 1393:, 1276:^ 1217:, 3493:( 3471:( 3433:( 3408:( 3389:( 3371:( 3347:( 3343:- 3321:( 3302:( 3287:( 3271:( 3253:( 3229:( 3197:( 3181:( 3165:( 3142:( 3127:( 3123:- 3110:( 3093:( 3073:( 3052:( 3036:( 3020:( 2992:( 2961:( 2938:( 2923:( 2906:( 2871:( 2852:( 2829:( 2809:( 2793:( 2776:( 2755:( 2727:( 2703:( 2684:( 2659:( 2646:( 2629:( 2602:( 2587:( 2571:( 2554:( 2531:( 2506:( 2494:( 2478:( 2391:. 2355:. 2216:( 2199:( 2195:- 2182:( 2156:( 2124:( 2096:( 2076:( 2060:( 2047:( 2031:( 2012:( 1996:( 1984:( 1951:( 1859:( 1830:( 1789:( 1765:( 1664:( 1636:( 1624:( 1620:- 1607:( 1587:( 1551:( 1422:. 1401:. 1356:. 1197:( 1110:( 1093:( 1060:( 1028:( 1004:( 985:( 974:( 961:( 934:( 903:( 866:( 843:( 795:( 778:( 690:( 675:( 652:( 629:( 605:( 601:- 584:( 507:( 470:( 445:( 405:( 360:( 307:? 238:( 209:( 149:( 118:( 99:( 88:( 57:( 30:(

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index