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63:. Solving these 3 problems may help stabilize the number of editors. See proposal based on moderators after the charts below. Moderators are common on many other websites. Individual discussion watchlisting has long been requested. There are solutions, but they are being blocked for various reasons. Some subpage-based forums would be very helpful. See:
975:
Knowledge (XXG) editing is very fast. Let's keep it that way, by implementing visual editor as a background option, not as an abrupt in-your-face default option. Be ready to disable it and work on it further if the number of edits goes down. The purpose of the visual editor is to increase the number of edits, not lessen the number.
775:, page protection, incivility warnings and blocks, etc.. These admins are for the most part unaccountable in any simple way. WikiProjects have a better chance of understanding all the obtuse processes necessary to get things done. Also, Knowledge (XXG) admin culture is ganglike in that it has a very paternalistic
919:
I am an admin-bureaucrat on a Wikia wiki, and I currently have over 36,000 edits there. Wikia sucks in so many ways. Those in charge there have the same main problem that the WMF board and staff has. People get hired who have little or no wiki editing experience, and are often clueless. They reinvent
809:
We need a whole class of such moderators, but without having to go through the burdensome approval process required for admins. Admins only have to go through such a strict, abusive process because the
Wikimedia Foundation requires it for any admin with delete and undelete rights. A separate class of
963:
I stopped using the Visual Editor on Wikia years ago, as have most regular Wikia editors I have communicated with. I even had to disable it in preferences because it severely slowed down my editing since I could not put the wikitext editor on top by default. I had to click on the wikitext editor tab
912:
The WMF board and staff should communicate mainly via
English Knowledge (XXG). The Meta wiki should be transferred to English Knowledge (XXG) pages, or to the Wikimedia Commons. Then the Meta Wiki should be shut down. Along with the Strategy Wiki. They are near useless wikis responsible for terrible
752:
to continue as a moderator. Otherwise, a moderator misconduct noticeboard will deal with them. So when editors in a content dispute ask moderators questions, especially about guideline interpretation, they have some assurance that the moderator knows something about what they are talking about. Many
789:
does not deal with content disputes, except peripherally. It handles conduct disputes, personal disputes, etc.. It handles them poorly, because it ignores the content disputes at their root for the most part. It often blocks those in disagreement over content from the topics in question. Many times
618:
They can change or revise any content decision, even one made by a mod. That consensus has to be genuine though, and not pushed through without participation and discussion. The mod who made the last decision on the issue can reverse it otherwise. Then if an editor is not satisfied a new mod can be
58:
for both occasional editors and active editors. Newcomers have the same problems whether they are editing new articles or existing articles. In either case it can take forever to resolve many content disputes. There are 3 main reasons for that in my opinion. One; lack of a friendly, quick, content
974:
wiki farm. (March 2013). I am amazed at how much more work I am getting done. Wikia's many changes in many areas caused so many slowdowns in ease and speed of use. I had forgotten how fast a pure MediaWiki site is for mass editing. Please do not make the same mistake on
Knowledge (XXG). Right now
923:
One good thing about Wikia is that central, community discussions between editors across the wikis are very useful and productive. There are many expert coders participating. They fix innumerable problems caused by the Wikia staff and its software experimentation. Wiki admins add the custom fixes
744:
Content dispute resolution is often a waiting game as to who outlasts who. Or editors join the legions of editors who have stopped regularly editing
Knowledge (XXG) articles. The gamesmanship (waiting games, etc.) could be greatly curtailed if moderators were involved early on. Right now there is
681:
With the declining number of active editors on
Knowledge (XXG) I see a lack of quality in many articles. I do not do much actual article editing anymore myself on Knowledge (XXG). I edit much more content on other wikis where one can do it more efficiently with far less drama. Registered vandals
978:
Since the number of active editors on
English Knowledge (XXG) is declining it is important that editing be made easier and faster, not buggy and slower. So that the total number of edits goes up in spite of the declining number of editors. For the same reason content disputes need to be fairly
835:
That explains a lot. I was wondering about the editing experience of the
Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) board and employees. Does anybody know the percentage of board members that have little or no editing experience? I don't think there should be any board members who do not have adequate editing
790:
for a year, or indefinitely. It often blocks those currently most knowledgeable about a topic. Sometimes other knowledgeable people will show up. They often will again disagree on the same content. In the end the ArbCom rulings are often as arbitrary as the rulings admins make using
736:
is almost diabolically efficient in driving away active editors. It is inevitable that active editors will arrive at content disputes one after another, especially as they edit more and more controversial topics. After a few arbitrary admin rulings (it happens often with
479:
705:
Moderators (mods) could be a solution to the lack of adequate content dispute moderation and resolution. Editors could ask mods to enter into discussion on an article talk page, and to make specific suggestions on how to settle a content dispute.
801:
That last part, the admins monitoring the situation, is actually a good thing. That is often what should have happened much earlier. It took years for this to happen with the
Israeli-Palestinian topic area, for example. See
670:
More articles, less editors, and many low-quality articles. Many people try their hand at editing articles. Many are driven away by a lack of understanding, by intimidating warning messages, admin curtness and rudeness,
843:
Now that they are part of
Wikimedia they need to do enough editing soon to get some real experience, or they should be fired. At least not rehired. It explains why the Board and some employees seem so out of touch.
848:
Because people can not easily integrate the WMF site watchlist, nor the Meta wiki watchlist, into the
English Knowledge (XXG) watchlist. So people trying to communicate with them do not follow up much if at all.
637:
This is to ensure mod compliance with Knowledge (XXG) guidelines, and if necessary to get rid of biased mods who make decisions without adequate discussion, and who refuse to make content decisions according to
699:
685:
Unfortunately, admins are not the solution. They are not enough of them to take on the added burden of moderation. The number of admins is declining over time, the same as the number of active editors. See
946:
523:
967:
Please be sure that we can choose which editor is on top in preferences. People will also need an option to disable it altogether because its loading in the background may slow things down too.
810:
moderators would not need a burdensome approval process. And anyway, with a moderator misconduct noticeboard overly problematic moderators will have their moderator and closing rights removed.
682:
waste my time here on Knowledge (XXG). Moderation is very inadequate. I tend to post and run more. We need moderators who can handle content disputes. Moderators are common on other websites.
445:
771:
cheers of their particular gang of admins. The best editing lately is done by WikiProjects who can overcome arbitrary admin rulings. On Knowledge (XXG) the admins frequently have to step in:
451:
529:
906:. Individual threads can be watchlisted, and it uses standard wiki discussion page editing which some prefer to the new forums. It also has the better, more complete, editing toolbar.
515:
435:
157:
960:
editor (source editor used now) as the default editor. One would access the visual editor by clicking "Visual Editor". This would be the safe, conservative path of implementation.
690:: 851. The number of active admins is usually around half of that number. The Wikimedia Foundation requires a strict admin approval process for admins with undelete rights. See:
984:
826:
417:
695:
990:
887:
535:
473:
467:
64:
45:
753:
content disputes revolve around divergent POVs. Moderators will know that showing all significant viewpoints on a particular issue is the correct interpretation of
983:. Here is a good summary chart below. It says the maximum number (ever) of active editors (5 or more edits in the last month) was 51,370 in March 2007. See also:
384:
124:
273:
218:
870:. What is needed is more group problem solving, section watchlisting, and less reliance on support and oppose votes. There is some collaborative effort in
224:
162:
60:
567:
806:(see under "Further remedies"). Those admins monitoring the topic end up informally helping to resolve content disputes too. That is a very good thing.
75:
one. The threads can be sorted by most recent reply, or by most replies. It is probably possible to adapt it to allow sorting by thread start date too.
490:
389:
757:. Many content disputes can be settled in many cases by a simple understanding of the guidelines. But how are many editors going to figure this out?
301:
192:
625:
After a week an editor can call for a different mod. Then after another week of discussion on the article talk page the new mod can make a decision.
295:
188:
945:"We're aiming for the Visual Editor to become the 'default' editor - that is, when you click the 'edit' button, you get the Visual Editor." --
509:
379:
691:
263:
59:
dispute resolution method. Two; lack of something as simple as the ability to watchlist individual discussions on talk pages. Three;
748:
A moderator has will have a certain acceptance from users since they have to be approved to become a moderator, and have to respect
81:
The Rise and Decline of an Open Collaboration Community – How Knowledge (XXG)'s reaction to sudden popularity is causing its decline
512:
to ban instant blocking for established editors unless a warning has been issued first. Listed 14 June 2012, archived 30 June 2012.
429:
423:
631:
Titled something like "Moderated content disputes". That way it is searchable along with all other discussion for that article.
928:
Those central, community forums at Wikia are much better organized than the Village Pumps here, and have much better software.
484:
457:
335:
964:(source editing) for almost every single edit. I had to do that because the visual editor was, and is, so buggy and slow.
915:
Impossible without the discussion being integrated into the English Knowledge (XXG) and/or Wikimedia Commons watchlists.
92:
1004:
989:
44:
779:. The vast majority of Knowledge (XXG) admins and editors are male. More female admins and editors are needed (see
346:
313:
235:
196:
132:
115:
The "holy-%$ #!" chart. Active editors (blue) and the one-year retention rate (red) on the English Knowledge (XXG).
859:
745:
very little moderation. Guidelines are not much moderation since they are interpreted in many ways, or ignored.
100:
791:
761:
738:
733:
729:
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175:
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Knowledge (XXG):Village pump (proposals)/Archive 85#A noticeboard about rude, abusive, or policy-abusing admins
96:
23:
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The forum threads can be watchlisted individually, and can be sorted by most recent reply, or by most replies.
579:
858:
due to poor problem solving methods, and inadequate discussion software in the Village Pumps and elsewhere.
80:
104:
888:
Knowledge (XXG):Village pump (proposals)/Archive 93#Convert Village Pump to Wikia Community Forum software
678:
among editors and admins, obtuse and byzantine content dispute resolution, and other unwelcoming things.
65:
Knowledge (XXG):Village pump (proposals)/Archive 93#Convert Village Pump to Wikia Community Forum software
956:, then there may be a serious drop in the number of edits from anonymous editors. I suggest leaving the
328:
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is a completely arbitrary policy that drives away many editors. Due to its vagueness and arbitrariness
902:
It is probably possible to adapt it to allow sorting by thread start date too. See also the old Wikia
612:
This is after a week of discussion on the article talk page, and if no consensus is otherwise reached.
111:
913:
products such as LiquidThreads. Terrible because they got little back-and-forth intense feedback.
866:, is an abomination, developed without broad feedback. It mainly got feedback at the near-useless
803:
786:
741:) even the most thick-skinned active editors often give up, and stop editing articles regularly.
519:
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resolved more efficiently. We need all this because of the increasing number of articles. See:
754:
749:
639:
17:
795:
772:
930:
That is the model that should have been used for getting more feedback on LiquidThreads.
480:
Knowledge (XXG):Requests for comment/Effect of arbitration processes on editor retention
394:
832:"Many Foundation employees don't understand editor needs because they are not editors."
724:. Since there is currently no adequate content dispute resolution the admins often use
895:
91:
The English edition of Knowledge (XXG) has grown to 6,886,666 articles, equivalent to
72:
998:
776:
648:
Some admins may have the time and interest at times to moderate content discussions.
503:
879:
572:
497:
372:. Timeline stats for number of articles, page views, and active wikimedia editors.
952:
If the Knowledge (XXG) visual editor is as slow and buggy as the visual editor at
651:
The main point of this proposal is an additional group to resolve content disputes
131:
Editors are leaving for various reasons. Many editors have been driven away. See:
903:
883:
606:
Moderators can only get involved officially if they are invited in by an editor.
439:
119:
867:
468:
Knowledge (XXG):Village pump (proposals)/Archive 84#Binding content discussions
814:
Wikimedia Foundation board and staff need editing and collaboration experience
768:
675:
619:
called in for another week of moderated discussion followed by their decision.
971:
920:
the wheel, ignore feedback, and do not have open, transparent discussions.
875:
87:
970:
I am in the process of leaving Wikia and forking most of my wiki to a pure
891:
68:
702:. The report is called "Is the Requests for adminship process 'broken'?"
424:
User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive_93#Declining number of editors and donations
957:
700:
Knowledge (XXG):Knowledge (XXG) Signpost/2012-06-18/Investigative report
583:
947:
Knowledge (XXG):Knowledge (XXG) Signpost/2013-03-25/Technology report
765:
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Same for employees. They should not have been hired to begin with.
953:
798:
and some admins are requested to monitor it on an ongoing basis.
628:
Labeled talk archives for such moderated discussions and decisions
446:
Knowledge (XXG) talk:Knowledge (XXG) Signpost/2012-01-02/Interview
118:
110:
985:
commons:Category:English Knowledge (XXG) active editor statistics
452:
Knowledge (XXG):Knowledge (XXG) Signpost/2011-12-26/Opinion essay
395:
Page Views for Wikimedia, All Projects, All Platforms, Normalized
609:
The same moderator can both discuss and decide a content dispute
369:
878:
formatting. All in all, Knowledge (XXG) could learn a lot from
568:
3 Charts That Show How Knowledge (XXG) Is Running Out of Admins
532:
to update the level-one user warnings based on testing results.
538:
for new class of admin-moderators to resolve content disputes.
856:
There is a lack of quality group collaboration and discussion
696:
Commons:Category:Admin statistics for English Knowledge (XXG)
615:
Editors of an article can always reach consensus on their own
436:
Knowledge (XXG):Knowledge (XXG) Signpost/2012-01-02/Interview
39:
This article is not regularly edited, and may be out of date.
886:. Some subpage-based forums would be very helpful too. See:
654:
Admin rights are no longer a part of this group or proposal.
56:
editing must become more efficient, friendly, and welcoming
838:
How can people run an organization they do not understand?
373:
827:
Knowledge (XXG):Knowledge (XXG) Signpost/2012-08-20/Op-ed
504:
general - (Wikimediaindia-l) Update on Social Media Pilot
418:
Knowledge (XXG):Knowledge (XXG) Signpost/2013-03-04/Op-ed
385:
commons:Category:Knowledge (XXG) active editor statistics
760:
Knowledge (XXG) has become like gang warfare at times.
794:. If things get bad enough the whole topic is put on
390:
commons:Category:Knowledge (XXG) page view statistics
580:
Knowledge (XXG) Is Running Out of Editors and Admins
874:, but the format is only partially compatible with
622:
Any other mod can change a content dispute decision
764:is the perfect tool for some admins who enjoy the
710:Content-dispute moderators versus WP:Edit warring
420:. "We must do more to turn readers into editors".
981:User:Timeshifter/More articles and less editors
380:commons:Category:Knowledge (XXG) article counts
24:User:Timeshifter/more articles and less editors
413:For more info and ideas for improvement see:
863:
491:Knowledge (XXG):Editor engagement experiments
8:
591:Possible solution. Large group of moderators
61:admin misconduct that drives away editors
890:and its subsections. See one of the new
518:for a second level of adminship without
86:
430:meta:List of editor engagement projects
692:Knowledge (XXG):List of administrators
339:of articles and categories drive away
306:of articles and categories drive away
54:on English Knowledge (XXG). Therefore
645:Full admins can act as moderators too
582:. July 17, 2012. By Jamie Condliffe.
498:You can also write on Knowledge (XXG)
7:
570:. By Robinson Meyer. July 16, 2012.
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67:and its subsections. See one of the
634:A moderator misconduct noticeboard
603:Create a large group of moderators
176:arbitrary guideline interpretation
31:
884:group problem-solving methodology
558:. July 23, 2012. By Wenjia Zhao.
485:Knowledge (XXG):Editor engagement
458:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Binding RFCs
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556:The Knowledge (XXG) Bureaucracy
892:Wikia Community Central forums
123:Active editors over time. See
52:more articles and less editors
1:
846:They get little feedback too.
543:News media and other articles
462:Knowledge (XXG):Binding RFCs
182:unresolved content disputes,
987:for more stats and charts.
225:abusive admins and policies
219:Unresolved content disputes
1021:
904:Founder & Admin Forums
133:User:Timeshifter/Userboxes
105:history of Knowledge (XXG)
524:discussion and straw poll
158:Editor retention problems
152:on full or partial strike
101:Template:Numberofarticles
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781:Knowledge (XXG):Teahouse
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97:Encyclopaedia Britannica
896:the General Discussion
155:from article editing.
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73:the General Discussion
370:Wikimedia Report Card
342:editors and donations
309:editors and donations
269:editors and donations
231:editors and donations
185:not enough moderators
122:
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90:
924:across many wikis.
402:Links and discussion
256:The lack of enough
69:Wikia Village Pumps
1005:Dispute resolution
882:and its as-needed
688:{{NUMBEROFADMINS}}
336:Non-admin closures
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93:over 1,600 volumes
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522:tools. See
500:. See also:
440:Sue Gardner
264:arbitrators
228:drive away
125:more charts
862:, used at
769:groupthink
676:groupthink
659:More ideas
496:Facebook:
259:moderators
163:Unchecked
50:There are
972:MediaWiki
876:MediaWiki
868:Meta-Wiki
829:is this:
804:WP:ARBPIA
304:deletions
274:More info
999:Category
958:wikitext
536:Proposal
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787:ArbCom
773:WP:3RR
766:fanboy
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