113:. I hope it is ok know. Please let me know if he is better known as Sobhuza I please let me know (I presume the "Nggwane" version is a mere misspelling?) Btw, the correct procedure is to go to the page in question and click the "move" button located above the article text. Then type the correct name and click "move page". After that, click the link suggested ("please check if this move has created any double redirects). Once there, click any links that have a "(redirect)" after them and update to the article's new name. The category pages update automatically whenever an article has been moved so no action is needed here. If you find this procedure confusing, feel free to contact me, and I will be glad to help. PS: You might wish to move your personal information to your actual user page. Most users use the user page to contain personal information and keep the talk with other users on the User Talk page. Welcome again and happy editing.
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an issue that does not narrowly rely Africa expertise, in fact probably needs informed analogies from elsewhere, which is the status of using "Bantu" as an ethnonym. I have some fairly strong feelings about that issue because of my experiences as a teacher of
African history. The feelings do arise from my "expertise" in the sense that the treatment of "the Bantu" as "a people" elides or occludes distinctions that I think are important perhaps especially for those relatively new to trying to understand African people (and peoples) in all their amazing rich cultural variety. But by the same token, the feelings of "experts" no less than other people may lead to balance or missing forest for trees problems.
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where we could ask for help from those with expertise in different areas, collaborate in improving articles, liaise on organising current coverage in a more systematic way, gain some kind of peer review from those with a background in the subject, etc, etc. We have some excellent articles (one or two dealing with the history of Cape Colony have reached
Featured Article status, the page on Lord Milner is quite good), but many important areas are neglected (eg. history of Transvaal/Natal/OFS, biographies of important figures such as Louis Botha/JBM Hertzog/JX Merriman). If we get enough interest then I think that it could be the catalyst for substantial improvements.
689:, 3rd ed. (Cape Town: Longman Penguin South Africa, 1988), which is a reliable source on matters of this nature. This represented the implementation what the British called The Third Swaziland Convention, signed by the South African Republic and the U.K. in December 1894. The convention purported to establish Swaziland as a protectorate of the S.A.R. Under the convention the British agreed that the S.A.R. should have "full powers of protection, legislation, jurisdiction and administration" of the territory. I.e. everything short of full incorporation.
1052:. The idea is to run a series of contests/editathons focusing on each region of Africa. He has spoken to Wikimedia about it and $ 1000-1500 is possible for prize money. As someone who has previously expressed interest in African topics, would you be interested in contributing to one or assisting draw up core article/missing article lists? He says he's thinking of North Africa for an inaugural one in October. If interested please sign up in the participants section of the Contest page, thanks.♦ --
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of
Transvaal independence in 1902, the protectorate was purely formal and nominal, with no actual S.A.R. presence or real effectiveness. Under British law and European international law the country was in legal limbo between the end of the S.A.R. and an order-in-council of 1903 that formally established Britain's claim to rule the territory. It was never an integral part of the S.A.R. or the Transvaal Colony, and the Swazi royalty never conceded that they had lost or given up sovereignty.
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or
Scandinavian countries. It would surprise me if there were not a republican substrate within PUDEMO, but Swaziland is mainly a country of peasants and mixed peasant-workers in whose consciousness the royalty is important for the health and strength of the nation, so I believe the calculus is for a limited constitutional monarchy. Under the recently adopted new constitution, the king is a constitutional ruler who holds all ultimate powers in the state.
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Adams in 2004, and who would be
Jefferson in 2008, and then who would be Washington again in 2012, it would be similar. In Swaziland (or Kangwane as it was then, i.e. ka-Ngwane, "the place of Ngwane," ka- being a locative prefix), however, the name cycle was irregular. Sobhuza I was important enough that his own name entered into the repetitions, so that the great 20th c. Swazi king was Sobhuza II (reigned 1899-1982, in his own right 1922-1982).
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better known as
Sobhuza I, and was in his own time. There are contemporary references to Sotho-speaking people calling those we now call Swazi (emaSwati in siSwati) the "Baraputse", which was derived from "Sobhuza" analogously to how "Swazi" derived from his son "Mswati". Virtually all of the significant published literature on Swaziland calls him Sobhuza I mainly, though some will mention the Ngwane IV alternative.
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aren't explicitly addressed because there's so much and some things most folks won't have trouble with -- I think "links" with nothing at the other end is one of those. I was a bit dense in not seeing that if there was nothing there, changing the link on the Mswati page was changing the only thing that mattered. Now that I understand that, I'm not likely to forget it. Anyway, appreciate the help.
555:. There I was addressing on the problem for that WikiProject of achieving a consistent stance toward the several senses of "ethnic group" and its blurriness in relation to tangent ideas like people, nation, tribe, language group, religion etc. "Bantu" is a term that illustrates the difficulties and one whose Knowledge incarnation I had seen. I thought and think that some things you said at
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347:. On the rest of this, if you need technical help, feel free to hit me up on my user talk page, but content-wise it sounds like you are way beyond me on this topic. If you really cannot type tildes on your browser, please do note the "Symbols" section below the edit box when you edit, which should have a place to click to insert a tilde. -
1019:. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Knowledge using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Please sign up to participate
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Short, summary answer: Swaziland was a partially effective protectorate of the S.A.R. from
February 1895 until October 1899, with powers recognized under European international law but not by the Swazi government. From the beginning of the Anglo-Boer War in October 1899 until the formal termination
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2. Under the new
Swaziland constitution (adopted 2006, effective Jan 2007) a bill of rights guarantees freedom of speech and association, but the king may suspend them if he deems it in the public interest. So republican groups are not prohibited outright, but if they formed, could only operate on
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The degree of effective governance was also shown by the fact that the S.A.R. was able to put the Swazi king, Bhunu (a.k.a. Ngwane V) on trial in 1898 for the assassination of an important royal governor, but had to give up its original plan to charge him with murder and depose him, instead imposing
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By way of background, the first convention in 1890 set up a complex joint governance in which
Swaziland retained sovereignty but both the South African Republic (the Transvaal) and the U.K. had commissioners in the territory with special powers concerning the interests of their subjects who lived in
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Anyway, there we are. Hopefully we'll be able to drum up some interest from a few others and get this started off. I think if four or so people expressed an interest then we could make this a go; so that means two/three more people. It's good to have you on board though; the
African experience is
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Hello Valentinian. Thanks for the help. I think with what you've told me & a recently located FAQ I should be able to address any similar problems in the future, though I still need to understand redirects better. Yes Nggwane is a mere misspelling. Although Ngwane IV is not wrong, he is much
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1. In Swaziland it appears that the position of the People's United Democratic Organization (PUDEMO), generally accounted the largest and most radical opposition group, and highly critical of the king and royal rule under present circumstances, is for a constitutional monarchy like that in the U.K.
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that has been discussed a bit but not really worked out satisfactorily, but I have not made a fix/revision to which others might respond. Partly this is a time issue. Also I have been reticent rather than bold due to newness to Knowledge. Your own energy and work puts my lack to shame. When I do
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context I think your intervention moved one bit of a debate forward helpfully, about "offensiveness" in a South African context. But I also think the problems of "the Bantu" as an ethnonym really can't be resolved by splitting off South Africa, which was peculiar, but mainly in the persistence past
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Hi Brian. Thanks for the note, and for all your efforts on behalf of strengthening Africa content in Knowledge. From what I've seen of your contributions (including discussions) you appear to be well-meaning certainly, but also level-headed, considerate and reasonable. What I was commenting on is
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Thanks Yomangani, I did something that ended up at the same place though I can see now how your way saves a step from what I did. I have been reading the pages you suggest & some others & will continue to do so, but it is one of those things where there's a cumulative logic and some things
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This pattern of double names somewhat resembles a case in what is now Angola in which a personal name became in effect something like the name of an office, with a cycle of four or five office-names. If instead of voting for president, we voted for who would be Washington in 2000, and who would be
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KZN has suffered extensive violence since the early 1980s, at certain points reaching the scale of civil war, although this is much reduced in recent years. In practice, in IFP controlled areas it would have been difficult for an anti-monarchical movement to operate, as Buthelezi bases one of his
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if there are any technical problems. Regarding your signature, I don't know what is wrong. I've tried pressing the link below the "show changes" button, and it works for me. Unfortunately, I use a Danish keyboard which is somewhat different from a U.S. one, but if you use a Windows based system, I
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The Republic of South Africa as a whole and its constituent provinces have a republican parliamentary form of government. The apartheid-era National Party government established a republic independent of the British monarchy in 1960, a status continued after the end of apartheid. It is possible
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Again I do not know the position in Lesotho. In general the Sotho king is much closer to a constitutional monarch in the European sense. Historically in Lesotho criticism of hereditary monarchy and chiefship has not called for their abolition but for their restoration to a putative condition of
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The third convention thus removed the earlier British requirement of Swazi royal consent to the protectorate. But S.A.R. administration was never fully established. Taxation only began in 1898, and even in its last year (1899) the administration was only able to collect taxes from about half of
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Hello there. Thanks for your interest in the above. Essentially I see the wikiproject as being something of a central meeting place for those interested in South (and maybe Southern) Africa's history. There really wouldn't be any onerous burdens or commitments. Essentially it would be a place
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I didn't and still don't have the time to figure out how to get the comparable U.S. Census Bureau map into Wikimedia Commons, and the page isn't listed as part of any Wikiproject. At the Tea House and Help Desk I will ask how to deal with such problems, whether perhaps there is a group of expert
471:. I've done my best to respond (there) with some background on how things got to be as they are and some thoughts on what we might do about it. I don't know whether you have the page watchlisted, so I'm pinging you here; please do watchlist it, that seems the appropriate place to discuss this. -
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At that point Swaziland became a British administered territory, but not formally a protectorate nor a crown colony. From 1903 to 1907 it was administered through the new British Transvaal Colony; in 1907 another order-in-council separated it from the Transvaal and placed it directly under the
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Prior to the new constitution, political parties of all sorts were prohibited, including republican parties. The ban extended to organizations with wholly or primarily political purposes, which one would suppose to include advocacy of a change of form of government. (Groups like human rights
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In the second convention, between the U.K. and S.A.R. only, signed in April 1893, Britain conceded to the Transvaal the right to seek Swazi royal consent to the proclamation of a protectorate, but specifically not full incorporation. However, the Swazi rulers (there was a regency at the time)
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The S.A.R. removed all its administrative personnel from Swaziland at the outbreak of the Anglo-Boer War in October 1899. Although it maintained a nominal Swaziland administration in Amsterdam in the eastern Transvaal, it had no power in the country. The British began sending personnel into
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3. Regarding the Zulu king, I am not entirely sure of the position at present. It is very much tied up in relationships between the ruling African National Congress (ANC) and the Inkatha Freedom Party (IFP) led by Chief Mangosutho Gatsha Buthelezi, with the king having his own autonomous
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The governing ANC does not seek to abolish hereditary chieftainship, including kingships in formerly independent polities connected with specific ethnic groups. The legal status, functions, and relations to local/ethnic communities of such "traditional leaders" is a matter of continuing
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begins its "Bantu" entry with, "The Bantu are one of the major cultural groupings of Africa." Victor Ngoh's history uses "Bantu-speakers" and "Bantu" interchangeably, and Neba's geography text uses the term "for the people as well as the languages found around the equatorial area in
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believe the key is located on the top left key next to "1", but I don't know if you have to hold down Shift, Alt or Alt Gr to activate it. If you use a Mac, you should be able to find the key by holding down the left "shift" button and pressing the key between it and the Z.
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only a substantial fine for permitting public violence. While this symbolically established the fact of S.A.R. power over Bhunu, it also showed the limits of S.A.R. power, in the face of a still active Swazi army and British refusal to support more drastic S.A.R. plans.
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claims to power as holding on a hereditary basis the office of "traditional prime minister" to the Zulu king (historically dubious in the sense that independent Zulu kings in fact changed the families from which they drew their main Izinduna, or advisors/ministers).
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Republican movements are legally permitted everywhere in South Africa. In addition to being governed by a republican party within a republic, the RSA has very strong civil liberties protections of speech, association and political activity in its post-apartheid
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One of the last acts of form the SA state president F. W. de Klerk was to vest state lands in KZN directly in the control under trust of the Zulu king, somewhat analogously to Swaziland. I am not sure if this arrangement is enshrined in the South African
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There is some debate as to whether the ban on political parties and organizations still persists, since there in no explicit repeal of the King's Decree of 1973 which established the ban. Some say it is superceded by the new constitution but that is not
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Thanks. Yes, I think moving to Sobhuza I would be best. I get the picture about redirects better now. I think my tilde problem may be with the browser (Mac, Safari). Appreciate all the help. (P.S. I find that pasting the 4 tildes from your message
756:. What can You say about? 2. Can You to confirm (or to disprove) that Republican agitation prohibited by the law in these countries? (And what penalty for each country?) 3. Can You to confirm (or to disprove) that monarchical status of the province
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De Klerk's aim seems to have been to put the cat among the pigeons between the ANC and the IFP, especially since King Goodwill Zwelithini Zulu had for a long time been considered a pawn of Minister M. G. Buthelezi, but they had had a falling
612:, no one will likely challenge you. Like I said, Knowledge can only benefit from more expert input. You've studied this stuff, so don't be afraid to share what you know and fix what needs fixing. I look forward to seeing more from you at
315:+ #. If that isn't working, perhaps your keyboard is faulty? Can you get a tilde up in other programs? Clicking on the four tildes next to the 'Sign your name:' at the bottom of the edit box doesn't work? Which browser are you using?
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If it still doesn't work, feel free to contact me again. Thanks for the explanation regarding the Swazis. I can easily move the page to Sohuba I of Swaziland if you prefer? Btw, the correct way to create a redirect is as follows: Suppose
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Swaziland in July 1902, and a small but substantial armed police force of 150 in September, but did not formally claim administration of the country until June 1903, through and order-in-council under the Foreign Jurisdiction Act.
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1950 or 1960 (or a late shift to it by Afrikaner officials and policy) of a usage that was quite common across colonial constructions of Africa in the interwar period with even older roots. I'll try to spell this out more at
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I've decided to use my usual name for my signature, in place of the former "Ngwe". Since I gather that multiple identities are sometimes used for questionable purposes in Knowledge, I thought I should note the change.
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get to doing something I look forward to discussing it with you because I think dialogue between "experts" and reasonably well-informed and sensible "amateurs" is most apt to produce appropriately encyclopedic results.
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an expert on any African topic; I'm just a well-meaning amateur trying to fill some gaping holes in Knowledge's coverage of African topics. If you see me say something that is false or you see an error in any of the
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just now. Edits like yours are the type that make wikipedia almost credible. I notice that you have an interest in Swaziland? Well, I started a few articles on Swaziland which you may want to take a look at:
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was also commonly known as Friedrich (that is his German name, but it is not relevant here, it is just to have an example). In that case you should go to the name you wish should be a redirect (in this case:
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My personal interests include military history, but largely centre around the political. My chief interest is the evolution of Afrikaner nationalism. Up until now I've used my limited time expanding the
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There is no Zulu kingdom in South Africa, but there is a king of the Zulu people. The somewhat corresponding political unit is the province of KwaZulu-Natal (KZN), but the Zulu king is not the king of
1481:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
1393:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
1303:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
1215:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
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at some point. And, apart from that intellectual history view, I think there is a conceptual problem with treating "the Bantu" as an ethnicity or a people. Again I'll try to spell that out more at
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Thank You very much for Your answer on my question about Transvaal’s protectorate under Swaziland! 1. Now I interested in existence of Republican parties or movements in South African kingdoms
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British high commissioner for South Africa, along with Basutoland (Lesotho) and Bechuanaland (Botswana). The Swazi royalty acquiesced to British power, but never admitted to losing sovereignty.
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Hi Ngwe, I haven't crossed paths with your colleague Doug Fix. If he is chatty (as I am, sometimes to my detriment) and likes to talk about Taiwanese aborigines, then send him my way. Thanks --
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535:, please don't hesitate to let me know or fix the error. It's great that someone with your background is willing to help out on Knowledge, so please do keep an eye on us non-specialists. --
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Thanks for the reply, Chris. Any confusion about the term "Bantu" on my part comes from the sources I've been using to write the various Cameroon-related articles I've done. For example,
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that the Zulu king functions as formal head of province in KZN (I don't think so, but am not sure), though executive power is certainly in the hands of the provincial legislative leader.
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has just been through Peer Review and should be going up for Featured Article status soon). I've also kicked off one or two others, such as the (incomplete) article on the
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before you begin, but if you have any problems drop me a note and I'll try to help (although I'm fairly busy this week, so it may be a while before I respond). Cheers,
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Hello Sumanuil, thanks I guess. I'm not exactly surprised by your choice, as I wasn't really satisfied with my stab at solution to a problem relating to the HD 35 map.
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Your attempt to list a page at AFD hasn't been too successful - it appears to list a page for deletion that doesn't exist. What was the page you were try to list?
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Still, speaking of what's constructive and what's not, your reversion leaves the page showing a completely inaccurate and misleading map for the district.
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to Knowledge! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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I will take your advice about where to ask for advice, since your talk page suggests you're not particularly interested in giving it directly.
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page after editing your link will appear on that page, and clicking on that link will take you to a page where you can create the article for
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307:(the Union Constitution). I have a bit more time on my hands over the next month or two, so I might actually get some of these finished!
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editors concerned with maps to whom I could refer this one, whether there's a simple way to flag that the map is outdated and inaccurate.
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383:), so you don't need to delete it or move it. If you want to create a page for this person under a different spelling you should edit the
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are legalize by South African Constitution? How about Republican movements and prohibition of Republican agitation in current kingdom of
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Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Knowledge! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.
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Detailed answer: Transvaal's claim to governance did not become effective until February 1895, according to J.S.M. Matsebula's
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on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out
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Thanks for the tip about the user page. I think I was looking at both for a few people & got confused. Will fix it.
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and make the changes you think are necessary. As long as your changes are accompanied by citations to published,
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As far as your tilde problem goes, I'm not sure. Persumably you're using a PC in which case it's <shift: -->
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Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to
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have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use
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are a bit problematic but raised them really to illustrate the difficulties of consistency. In the
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OK, I think I understand the problem now. The page that the link you clicked goes to doesn't exist (
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Hi. It would be useful is you set up a user page so I could put a note there that I have replied.
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had not been "occupied" already, I could have moved it immediately. I have listed this article on
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1110:. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they
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I believe the South African constitution may recognize such leaders but am not clear exaclty how.
661:) or it was an integral part of Republic of Transvaal with effective control of Boer powers? --
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rather neglected here as far as I can see (although so are most things SA - hence the project).
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on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!
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Hi there Cclowe, I just wanted to stop by and say good work on the copy editing you did on
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Prosecution of Republican propaganda and active Republican parties in current monarchies
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It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these
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popular accountability said to have been corrupted by colonialism (see Robert Edgar,
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Hi Chris. In case you weren't aware, I have responded to your well-made points on
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269:. If a majority support it, it will be moved around one week from now. Regards.
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Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library!
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Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now
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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#Concept page detached from project
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add no other text and press "save". That will do the trick. Happy editing.
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Don't know if you will see this because I have been away so long, but ...
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Hi again. As I read your post, it would be better to have his article at
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to
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However, my comment invoking some of your comments was, as you note, at
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are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
1023:. Thanks for editing Knowledge and I look forward to working with you!
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the territory. The Swazi government was party to the first convention.
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regarding some remarks I had written (either on the same page or at
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707:Swazi homesteads -- see Jonathan Crush,
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444:Africa-related regional notice board
154:? I can either move it or list it at
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1322:and submit your choices on the
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1146:without posting a request to
927:Hi. When you recently edited
592:02:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
540:06:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
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387:page and replace the link to
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621:12:16, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
97:I have moved the article to
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1619:02:58, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
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902:Swaziland Progressive Party
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971:10:49, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
764:? Beforehand, Thank You!
463:WikiProject Ethnic groups
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1514:to your user talk page.
1426:to your user talk page.
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1174:12:24, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
1157:leaving us some feedback
1144:create articles yourself
1123:create articles yourself
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665:20:49 01.08.2007 (UTC)
450:, too. Kind regards, —
389:Queen Thandile Ndwandwe
381:Queen Thandile Ndwandwe
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1055:Ser Amantio di Nicolao
999:
687:A History of Swaziland
659:www.worldstatesmen.org
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1148:Articles for creation
1127:Articles for creation
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1009:World Digital Library
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984:World Digital Library
604:As for reticence, do
467:Excellent remarks at
305:South Africa Act 1909
299:article/subarticles (
959:opt-out instructions
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587:Cheers, sala kahle,
514:Experts and amateurs
485:Taiwanese aborigines
101:with redirects from
1071:Your submission at
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663:User:212.98.173.133
633:Say me please, was
499:Change in Signature
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25:Hello, Cclowe, and
1491:arbitration policy
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1000:
949:• Join us at the
897:History of Namibia
890:History of Namibia
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397:Tsandzile Ndwandwe
94:Greetings Cclowe.
39:How to edit a page
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1104:Start-Class
271:Valentinian
204:Valentinian
196:#REDIRECT]
115:Valentinian
82:Valentinian
1611:Chris Lowe
1566:. Thanks.
1487:topic bans
1399:topic bans
1309:topic bans
1221:topic bans
1166:MurielMary
961:. Thanks,
929:Tina Kotek
906:John Nquku
879:Chris Lowe
821:interests.
735:Chris Lowe
614:Talk:Bantu
601:Cameroon."
589:Chris Lowe
570:talk:Bantu
566:talk:Bantu
561:talk:Bantu
557:talk:Bantu
524:Talk:Bantu
506:Chris Lowe
440:Talk:Bantu
78:{{helpme}}
66:Wikipedian
44:Help pages
1564:Help desk
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1395:site bans
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1217:site bans
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1108:talk page
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933:Dave Hunt
754:Swaziland
643:Transvaal
635:Swaziland
406:Yomangani
368:Yomangani
297:Jan Smuts
259:Sobhuza I
107:Sobhuza I
103:Ngwane IV
68:! Please
1576:Sumanuil
1560:Teahouse
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1041:Contests
491:Ling.Nut
345:Dinuzulu
341:Dinizulu
49:Tutorial
21:Welcome!
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1112:develop
963:DPL bot
863:debate.
815:(1983).
750:Lesotho
606:be bold
220:works).
27:welcome
1017:UNESCO
1005:Cclowe
805:clear.
473:Jmabel
349:Jmabel
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645:from
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263:WP:RM
257:(and
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762:Zulu
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452:mark
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