988:, and in fact you are citing things to pages that do not exist in the source, where the source does not even discuss the events you are attributing to the group. You might want to check to make sure you're not giving the wrong like here, because the congressional testimony at the link you're providing has nothing to do with the different content pieces you're proposing to add, but in any event witness testimony cannot verify the truth of claims here. I'm concerned that a more thorough review of all your contributions to the various articles may be in order, and if the sourcing is similarly weak we may have to simply undo it all and ask you to take it one step at a time. I'll be spot-checking some things, and if this looks to be a systematic problem I'm going to bring it to other editors' attention for some guidance on what to do. If I do, I'll let you know, but I hope that won't be necessary. If you can find reliable sources about the incidents, and they simply cannot be tied to the Weather Underground group, there are some other options per
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Congressional
Reports. I could go to primary sources on the Deaths of these Policeman. In all cases Members of the Weather Underground were tried, found guilty, and sentenced to jail for each of these police murders. Because of these Murders many of these Weather Underground members made it to the FBI Top Ten Wanted List. There is no BLP issue, because I am citing a veriable and reliable source (Congress) and more importantly all these Weatherman individuals have all gone to trial and been found guilty.
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how this family raises their children and deals with the illiness and death of their son does not make sense. One should be neutral, but to deny that
Christainity is central to the story of Ben Bowen and his family does not make sense, especially because they explicitly make this case. The Bowen's would say they are pillars of their community because they are Christain. Whether or not this is true or untrue for all Christians or people of other faiths is up to the reader to decide.
745:. However, please refrain from using sources which are either clearly partisan or which may be perceived to be partisan. The use of sources which others might perceive to be partisan weakens the article, by casting doubt on the reliability of other well-sourced parts of the article. Thank you again for your contributions. If you have any questions about editing Knowledge articles in general or about editing Israel-related Knowledge articles, feel free to ask. Best wishes. ←
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about the "one true faith." Check out the talk page of any of the world's major religions or religious figures to see what I mean. I did add a category so that readers would make no mistake about the Bowen family's faith and it could be discussed in the article as long as it didn't imply that the Bowens are good people only because they are
Christians. What I've heard about them, I believe that they would be pillars of their community regardless of how they worshiped.
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it represents their findings, after weighing, reviewing, editing, etc., but even there I would note somewhere that it is all according to that report. Maybe the problem is
Internet Archive? Or you just have the wrong link. I see nothing wrong with linking directly to the wikisource page but it would help if we can get closer to the source, and a better quality scan to boot. It's a us government publication so maybe there's a .pdf version that's indexed? -
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reliable on matters of the politics at the time because
Congress is a political body. They could be reliable to verify statements to the effect that "A 1974 congressional report said that....", but as a weight and relevancy matter we might need a stronger third party source to establish that. If the congressional source is the only one tying a certain person to a murder, or the Weathermen to that person, it's not enough. There could be exceptions.
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we try zeroing in on this? It sounds like it may be a technical problem. Browser compatibility? Dynamic pages responding differently to our two IP addresses? The FBI or
Government Printing Office renumbered the documents and page numbers at its website? One of us is confused? This is one of the strangest things I've seen lately around here. -
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document at that web location, and that document does not even contain the word "Boulder" per a web search. Could you be using the wrong link? Maybe this is all a misunderstanding or mistake. Let's start with one of them that I removed - feel free to pick any of them. Could you point me to the specific source that you have to back it up?
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That is a 29 page document with images, documents added to the record, and a transcript of actual subcommittee testimony, interesting in its own right but not terribly reliable in a
Knowledge sense because it is the direct testimony of witnesses. The subcommittee report is much more reliable because
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Just because one family attributes their strengh in adversity to a belief in the
Christain God, does not make atheiests (sp), hindu's, catholics, muslims, inferior. People of these faiths can also attribute their Strength to their respective strengths. To pretend that Christianity is not central to
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It seems there is something very weird going on here. When I follow the links I don't get 36 pages or the word "boulder" at all. I have no doubt that you see a page 36 and the material you describe on your screen, but there is simply no page 36 or mention of any of this when I click the link. Can
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In particular on Page 33 of the
Senates 1975 Weatherman Underground report, they note the murder of the Boston Policeman as part of a Bank Robbery and the receipt of a Tape claiming WUO responsibility. This is a perfect secondary (and reliable) source and I believe that any Wikepedia Administration
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I agree with the
Neutral Point of View. But the Fact is that the Bowen's are Christain, they attribute their ability to deal with this tradgy to believing in God's Plan. Furthermore they believe that God is using Ben Bowen's life to influence people. I did refer to these believes via references.
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Senate Subcommitte Reports and Government Reports in general are great secondary sources, they are very public, put together by a diverse staff, and verifiable. I think it is incorrect to assert otherwise. However, I am more than willing to go to Administers on this issue of the Reliability of
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and any hint that one religion (or lack thereof) is better or makes better people. There are probably equal numbers of Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, and agnostic/atheist editors and admins here and if we let one religion have special priveleges, little would get done beyond fighting
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It's hard to discuss this in the abstract without seeing the source and the claim that it's supposed to verify. The links you had provided were to something that was on the subject of the Weathermen but did not discuss the incidents in question at all. In general claims made by Congress are not
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On the Boulder matter, in the Senate Report on pages 29 - 31 they copy a Chicago Times Newspaper report that states the Dynamite purchased in Boulder was the same as used in the attempting bombings of the Detroit Police Station and other Police Office. It was also the same as found in the bomb
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I would argue that Senate Reports are reliable, barring evidence to the contrary. They are like Wall St Journal, NY Times, etc. I agree we can preface any statement with "A 1975 Senate Report..." On page 33 the report notes the Robbery in Boston. On page 36 it states that Susan Saxe and K.
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Before we even get there, what is the source exactly? A number of places you cited the congressional record to stand for the proposition that explosives associated with the Weathermen were traced to Boulder, Colorado. But you cited it to page numbers that exceeded the number of pages in the
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You might have noticed that I have been removing a number of the additions you recently made to the article. You seem to be trying to support a thesis that the Weathermen killed a number of police officers. However, that is simply not borne out by the sources. Some of the events you are
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Finally, perhaps the Honor's section should be remained Honor's and Influence or their should be a Honor's section and then an Influence section. The West VA citation pointed out that Ben Bowen was rich in his influence. This might be a reasonable approach. Let me know, what you this
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Oops, you are right on the URL. I have the right reference, but the wrong URL. I put a copy on my hard-drive a few months ago. I did a google search and found a couple of locations where you can buy a copy. The one Free Version I managed to find is at the following URL:
935:: "Square brackets are mainly used to enclose explanatory or missing material usually added by someone other than the original author, especially in quoted text." This wasn't a typo meant to be a link, just a clarification that the word "he" referred to Arafat. Just FYI! --
1019:-related articles, until we can get this sorted out. If you continue I'm afraid that I'll have to bring this matter to the attention of administrators, who may well block your account from editing the encyclopedia at all to prevent disruption and further violations of the
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It is not unusual for study results to appear several years after the conclusion of a trial. Some poor underpaid researcher needs to sit down with the data and analyse it. It is therefore entirely possible for PCPT results to appear in 2005. I don't think the
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and consider new information added near the top of the article and several new proposals at the bottom. If you haven't looked at the RfC in some time, you may find reason in the new information and new proposals to rethink the matter. Thanks! --
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You were entirely right to revert back your version. I must have been tired... Finasteride is one of those drug articles that often gets stuffed with POV stuff because of people's bad experiences with Propecia. Gets me trigger happy - apologies.
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The Knowledge Library gets Knowledge editors free access to reliable sources that are behind paywalls. Because you are signed on as a medical editor, I thought you'd want to know about our most recent donation from Cochrane Collaboration.
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will agree. I URL for the report is in the article. It is also easy to find articles about the trials and convictions of these Weatherman individuals. They are also all listed as members of the Weather Underground in this Senate report.
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page that in turn links to a 29-page "hearing before the Subcommittee to Investigate the Administration of the Internal Security Act and Other Internal Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary" transcript from January 31, 1975,
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Not sure if this is the best format. I think a bit more on the dollars raised and a note on the overall consumption of funds at Saint Jude would be useful. I think I will start a separate Wiki page on Brain Cancer - ATRT.
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factory in Chicago. The same dynamite and detonators were found in San Franciso. The dentonators are unique to the Boulder source. The bomb fragments from the Park Street bombing also match the Boulder dynamite.
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Did you take the headstone photo? If so, you could upload it to Knowledge as long as you are willing to release it under a free license. If not, the article still uses it as a reference, which works, too.
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Since you have done some great work on the article, I wanted to explain why I removed the recent edits abouth the influence of their religion. Knowledge articles must confrom to a
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Powers are members of the WOU. I found a few other sources that state Susan Saxe meet and stayed with WUO members after the robbery (i.e., Mark Rudd & K. Dohrn).
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Just a note that I agree w/your adds to the lead. I had the AA item in the lead of both his article and the main article, but someone deleted it along the way.--
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1188:(after edit conflict) Wow, that's a great source! And not at all the one I was reading. Most of the referenes links you added are all in this general format:
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Hi. You are correct, RECAF is interesting. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. But let's get some help digesting it for wikipedia. I have nominated
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where the content could stay if organized differently, e.g. a section on acts by related groups, unproven connections, or acts by other groups. Thanks, -
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to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.
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to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.
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Something like "Bowen's family ratioalizes his suffering as part of their Protestant Christian faith: "Quote from Tom and Jennifer."" would be fine.
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I could use Exact Quotes if that helps. I believe that Newspaper articles are in the Public domain. I am unsure about the Bowen web site.
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and want to use it on Knowledge, you may re-upload it (or amend the image description if it has not yet been deleted) and use the license
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I concur, you really have adapted quick to Knowledge! I hope you can use your great skills elsewhere, they would be much appreciated! :)
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on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. You may also push the signature button
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Also, saying "Tom (9/11 stuff) and Jebbifer Bowen" makes for a better article flow. Take care, God bless, and keep up the great work.
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Thanks for all the tireless work filling out the history, finding sources, etc. We'll have much better coverage of all this now. -
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Please review the above note, and do not re-insert unsourced accusations about living people committing murders, as you do here.
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attributing to the weathermen are clearly not their actions. You have cited material to congressional testimony, which is not
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I changed all the URLs to point to the Correct Source. I will let you know what I find in the FBI report sometime next week.
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I will gradually update the URLs. I downloaded an old FBI Report on the Weatherman (1976), but have yet to go through it.
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reference is the one we're talking about; that journal usually publishes study protocols rather than outcome data.
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I uploaded the PDF copy I have to WikiSource (see URL below). The display is not very good, but it can be read.
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I will work to state these facts as quotes and/or very explicit references and keep a neutral tone.
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If it is helpful I can list each Weatherman individual who was convicted for each specific murder.
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