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not but neither are the other two (Reds and TFC) so nobody bothered with it. Further, "Redcoats" references the team as opposed to any group of fans of
Toronto FC, thus its placement. Finally, the "Redcoats" nickname didn't just come out of nowhere in the last ten days but was often discussed during the off-season, as early as January, if I recall correctly. Again, this was done on the forums so those who don't read them wouldn't know this. Like I said earlier, I am opposed to the "Redcoats" because it's pretty artificial being shoved in our faces by a select few so I won't be upset if it's not reinstated. Anyway, the point of my contacting you was not to discredit your work, just a heads-up that it's a touchy situation. Hope this clears up some of your concerns.
993:@Jusdafax: The edit was actually removing an act of vandalism (someone had inserted a reference to either themselves or someone they know which did not belong). After viewing the preview of this removal and clicking "save page", someone had vandalised the page with obscenities in the mean time and therefore when I clicked "save" it appeared as though I endorsed the vandalism. Usually, when someone has modified a page while someone else had been editing, a message comes up indicating this but there was no such message this time. A glitch perhaps? Anyway, long story short, I do not wish to be labelled a vandal as I've done nothing wrong.
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interpretation of that quote is (and this may be what that line is meant to say) that
Toronto FC is required to have fewer Canadian players on their team than the amount of American players other teams are allowed to have on their team. This is where the confusion comes in. Is there anything that says that Toronto FC has a maximum amount of Canadian players they can have on their team? I know that they are allowed to have more Americans on their team, but are they absolutely
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to ask you a favour: can you yourself revert the edit you made? This is not meant to be bossy or insulting, it's just that if you do it (as opposed to someone else), it avoids the appearance that each side is arrogantly trying to impose its opinion by overwriting the previous edit. We've reached a consensus, but only after ugly debates and we're hoping to avoid a repeat. I hope you understand what I'm getting at, and I know this was a good faith edit.
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531:- and no coherent discussion on the talk page. If people want to debate it, that is the place. What I removed didn't even make sense - it implied that this nickname had occurred during a 10-day period? That's hardly encylopeadic - perhaps it was just badly written. If this is a valid nickname for the fans (and not the team), shouldn't it be in the Toronto FC fans section (and/or on
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protected it for 72 hours so it will be automatically unprotected at 1144 hrs (UTC) on Friday. That too was his decision. I intend to update the page with the latest information when it comes unlocked. If you get there before me to edit it, that's fine, but I'll be swinging by to take care of it so you don't have to worry about it.
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4. Although I disagree with using "Redcoats" as you do (and I do think it is an arrogant minority trying to force this artifical sounding name on everyone), Knowledge is supposed to be encyclopedic in that it should reflect the subject as much as possible. To avoid sparking another edit war, I'd like
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But that's just the thing, there WILL be other matches and a good records table should take that into account. But even setting that aside, why remove the playoff portion? They're an integral part of the MLS. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't follow why the table shouldn't be comprehensive and
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7. Thus, of the 16 international slots given to TFC, at least 5 of those must necessarily be used on
Americans. To muddy the waters further, the classification of a player is done on the basis of citizenship rather than the place of birth. For instance, Amado Guevara is considered American though he
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That would be part of the problem - the text I deleted, said the fans were called
Redcoats - not the team! I watch the team, and I've been to games. I've never heard or seen the team called Redcoats. So I'm loathe to restore the text, unless there is something that can be referenced. I don't even
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3. Because of these two viewpoints which were thoroughly discussed/argued/yelled about on the various forums, it sparked an edit war which had to be stopped by a page protection. We've come to a compromise that "Redcoats" should be left out of the title box (because it is not used as extensively as
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What's up with the TFC entry being protected? I went to add
Guevara to the roster and couldn't get in. If anything, I would suggest it's protected such that only registered users can edit it. I'm not sure if you have anything to do with it, but you can trust me with editing privileges, if only for
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P.S. Somehow the table got all messed up by an edit - I restored it to the previous format because I wanted to include the most recent 0-0 draw into it. I didn't do it out of disrespect for your opinion, it's just that I'm familiar with this format and wanted to keep the table up-to-date. It would
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Yes, I was the one who requested the page protection because of the issue and I probably should have mentioned that the discussion was done on a separate forums, which of course you wouldn't have known, but that's my mistake, I should have mentioned it. As for referencing, you've got a point, it's
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3. American teams have 8 international slots for players who are not
American (this includes Canadians). Essentially, for American MLS teams, they must have 20 American players on their roster but only because of the limited nature of international slots. Thus, it's not a quota of American players
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Trust me, you wouldn't the first one to be mixed up by MLS rules. I belong to a forum where we're not even completely sure of everything. The phrase you're referring to is, in my view, better understood in the context of the entire paragraph. Explaining roster regulations into comprehensible words
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It makes sense but your reasoning is exactly why I believe there should be a catchall category. Because participation in
Superliga and CONCACAF Champions League is not guaranteed, we may end up seeing a ton of zeroes or dashes indicating that no games have been played. It would make the separated
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Hope you weren't offended. Normally, I'd agree with medalling but 3rd of 4 doesn't seem like that great of an accomplishment. I also concur on the CCC, and I'd add that in the future (once the
Canadian Championship is done with) we should probably only stick to "real" matches, excluding friendly
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Thanks for the appreciation. Part of why I got into this article is because the MLS does such a crappy job at applying their own tie-breakers, even though they take a day longer than we do to get the standings up on their site. It really is a pet peeve of mine, and I'm glad to know that someone
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4. What I think mixes you up is the 11+5 clause. TFC is under no obligation to use any of its 16 international slots (for anyone who is not
Canadian). Within those 16 internationals, there is a limit of 11 who can be non-Americans. Beyond those 11, any further internationals must be American. But
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Lol, didn't like my edit listing third in the Texas Pro Soccer
Festival as an honour? Originally my idea was to include 1st to 3rd ("medalling") in any competition, but I'm not so sure. Once we get the Canada Cup under our belt I think maybe we should take out the Runners up spot from the CCC as
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to field fewer domestic players than its American counterparts" leaves me confused, specifically the italicized word. I understand that because they are a Canadian-based team, they are allowed to select more Americans as international players because the talent is better than in Canada. But my
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I know this is crystal balling to a certain extent, but the Canadian Championship will be a yearly competition with Toronto FC, Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps along with any other team pending future expansion to the competition. The three previously mentioned clubs are guaranteed to
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Yeah, I was the one who requested it be protected from editing because of an edit war on the subject of the nickname "Redcoats". However, I wasn't the one who chose to fully protect it, that was the moderator's decision, given that it's an edit war which was getting pretty nasty. Further, he
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I've taken out the playoffs and changed Other Matches to Canadian Championship. There is no reason to call it other matches since the Canadian Championship is the only other matches being played this season. Your "catchall category" can be used for Superliga and CONCACAF Champions League.
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I see where you're coming from but with a separate column/total for the Canadian Championship AND the SuperLiga AND the CONCACAF Champions League, the table gets to be pretty unwieldy. Ideally, people should be able to have a quick glance and instantly know what's what.
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6. But #5 is more complicated than just giving TFC more international slots (MLS gave TFC 16 slots). Because the MLS is American-based, it naturally wants to encourage the growth of American players (because that was the point of the league when it was established in
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I am the creator of the image along with another first version entitled Image:Personal_Emblem_01.JPG but you may delete these as they are outdated versions. Only Image:Personal_Emblem_03.JPG which is licensed to me is current and being used in my personal page.
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until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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3. TFC will never have more Americans on their team than American-based MLS teams. If TFC used all 16 of its international slots for Americans, that number would still be less than the 20 Americans will have (because of their 8 international slot limit --:
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again, there is no obligation to use them. Finally, the 11+5 rule doesn't apply in reverse. More precisely, if TFC has 5 American players on its roster and wants more, that's fine so long as it doesn't exceed the original 16-player limit on non-Canadians.
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9. Lastly, the rule change from 2007 to 2008 (giving TFC two extra international slots) mentioned in the article itself is subject to review following the 2009 season. MLS wants to make sure that it doesn't give TFC a leg-up on the American
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Why can't it just be two competitions in the other matches? With MLS Regular Season and Canadian Championship being the competiitos guaranteed to be in the table? By the way some other peole have join the conversation on TFC's talk page.
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participate. Participation in the Superliga and CONCACAF Champions League is not guaranteed every year. Therefore, Canadian Championship should have it's own line. Other matches should not be included unless there are other matches.
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complete. I understand it when you say that there haven't been playoff matches or Superliga and Champions League matches, but it seems that people who read the article should know that the potential for these matches exists.
535:) rather than the Naming section. And it should also really have a reference. Though given the poorly referenced state of the article, I could live with just moving it to the correct section, if others thought appropriate.
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How about the signings of Laurent Robert and Amado Guevara? These were made in-season; what's your take on those? In your opinion, should there be a list for them (and other potential roster moves during the season)?
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I see you have many violations as well. What makes you so special to tell me to stop using Knowledge? Don't tell me what to do because it is really anoying and I'm sure you dont like people telling you what to do.
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Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.
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2. The majority says that the minority is trying to force the nickname on everyone and is selfish for not accepting the majority rule. The minority believe that 25% is still a significant minority.
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I was saying that with separate sections for all three tournaments we would get a ton of zeroes until some matches are played. With all three competitions rolled into one, we avoid that.
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This is a friendly warning: The edit you made is risking reigniting an edit war. Essentially, this is the breakdown of the debate (if you can call it that, more like a screaming match):
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960:" link (it is located at the very top of any Knowledge page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any
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5. This means that different roster rules are required to keep TFC competitive in the league. This is done by allowing TFC to have more international players on its 28-man roster.
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If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "
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2. Those 28 spots are divided into senior (18) and developmental (10) types. This, however doesn't really impact on your question. This is just so my explanation is complete.
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1. Everything you have said in your message to me is correct up to where you say that "this is where the confusion comes in" (obviously, otherwise you wouldn't be confused).
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1. 75% (several polls have been conducted) do not believe "Redcoats" to be a nickname because it is not used by the majority of fans nor the media. 25% like the nickname.
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4. Toronto FC is a special case because it is a Canadian team. MLS recognizes that we have less population and so the talent pool is not as deep as in the United States.
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2. TFC does not have a cap on Canadian players, they could fill their entire team with Canadians and leave the allowed international slots unused, if they so desired.
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Thanks for the clarification, I had completely forgotten to check the roster page at TFC for confirmation. I guess it's probably that it is so infrequently updated.
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understand what was written on the talk page - I can't parse it. I'll let others change ... perhaps this time they'll say what they mean. Thanks for the heads up.
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Ah, makes sense. Some of the fans are a little too overzealous with the littlest things... I don't think Redcoats is really an accurate nickname anyways. Now
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Simply don't put other matches unless there are other matches. Lets take out the playoffs category too and only have Regular Season and Canadian Championship.
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Use other matches when they actually happen. You were complaining about a ton of zeros. Therfore, you take out the categories that would have a ton of zeros.
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if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Knowledge (see
945:, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Knowledge. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed.
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I posted the links in this forum I belong to and we worked through it and found the relevant information. But thanks for taking the time to message me.
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3. Don't forget to sign your name using four tildes (~) and to separate replies in a discussion with (---) and one space above and below this divider.
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The changes were flying so fast and furious on that page with the vandalism that you got wrongfully tagged. Removing the notice, with my apologies.
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Thanks for joining the discussion and the joke on the 2008 MLS season talk page. It looks like it's a deadlock in both the discussion and vote.
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His jersey number is given on the press release announcing his signing from TFC's official website. Just scroll to the bottom, and it's there:
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fit for an encyclopedia is actually extremely hard in practice. I'll go point-by-point as I find it helps me explain things better.
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have taken me longer to de-bug the table and include the new results. I do indeed want to continue the discussion.
506:"Reds" or "TFC") but that it should mentioned that "Redcoats" has been accepted by some in the body of the article.
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I'm sure I just am a bit confused because... well, that's how I am. The wording of "Toronto FC is
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3ASidorkst&diff=215059738&oldid=215057007
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the work I've been doing on the records page! - themodelcitizen (on a different comp at the mo)
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I was thinking more along the lines of the Wikinews template I added to the roster section.
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1. MLS teams (Canadian or American) have a fixed number of roster spots which stands at 28.
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8. As if that's not complicated enough, international slots can be traded between teams.
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Talk:Toronto_FC#Nicknames During this period of time, there was virtually no discussion
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Yeah, I noticed shortly after I sent you the question. Thanks for the quick reply.
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Other matches is a very ambiguous line. There has to be one for each competition.
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4. I don't appreciate that you edited my post to make it seem like I insulted you.
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to? That's pretty much what I don't understand. Could you clarify for me please?
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Wikinews articles can be linked to the TFC article to serve the same purpose.
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This is mainly for the off-season when they are actually making these moves.
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2. I never told you to stop using Knowledge, merely to cease vandalizing.
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very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the
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Of course next off-season there will be more along the side there.
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That's about it for the rules. To answer your questions directly:
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is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Knowledge
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There are the sources about the colombian players at Toronto FC.
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I would go with what the TFC website says about their roster.
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I just saw and it works for me. Very nice, good work!
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http://www.studiofutbol.com/noticias.php?codigo=2646
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1279:voting page
1033:Thank you!
685:I'm sorry.
482:I like...
480:Grigiorossi
476:Biancorossi
166:Greetings.
1263:topic bans
1150:. Thanks,
1134:(Read the
1075:topic bans
1045:Lckystrke
1005:Lckystrke
900:Lckystrke
861:Lckystrke
810:Lckystrke
773:Lckystrke
735:Lckystrke
700:Texas Fest
679:Lckystrke
565:Lckystrke
521:Lckystrke
494:"Redcoats"
468:Lckystrke
432:Lckystrke
333:Lckystrke
285:Lckystrke
250:Lckystrke
195:Lckystrke
146:Lckystrke
108:TFC Roster
104:Lckystrke
1259:site bans
1071:site bans
47:copyright
962:articles
943:orphaned
909:Kingjeff
869:Kingjeff
833:Kingjeff
818:Kingjeff
782:Kingjeff
745:Kingjeff
687:Sidorkst
663:Proof:
640:Sidorkst
633:Sidorkst
593:Kingjeff
354:Ksy92003
348:required
343:required
293:Kingjeff
258:Kingjeff
222:Kingjeff
205:Kingjeff
119:Kingjeff
53:and the
1286:NoACEMM
1192:deleted
1152:DPL bot
623:Alpaugh
63:to the
51:license
1061:. The
397:teams.
389:1994).
76:Jusjih
55:source
1017:Jusda
970:BJBot
613:Grant
574:Nfitz
537:Nfitz
1296:talk
1249:The
1212:talk
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1116:and
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1136:FAQ
1055:Hi,
1022:fax
953:).
478:or
411:-->
1298:)
1288:}}
1284:{{
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