977:
published for 19 centuries in 200 languages till the 20th century. I am not talking about one word or one article alone, but I am worried, that most of the
Wikipedians do not understand other cultures, other countries or other languages. In India we have Medical Colleges (not medical schools). We are not permitted to have an article about "Medical Colleges". Instead the article on Medical College automatically redirects to Medical School. I get a reply that there is "nothing called as Medical College". The truth is that the administrator is NOT AWARE of the concept of Medical College. WHen he does not know anything he automatically assumes that it does not exist. What to say about this. In this regard, (I am sorry to say) I find the users from the so called developed American and European nations who are so adamant and do not even believe that there is a world where there are drinks other than cola, and dress other than shirts. The same with ISBNĀ :)Ā :-)
1050:, and running a search on "purananuru" (a classical text on which there've been quite a few Tamil academic works written recently). If you look at the ten or so post-1990 Tamil-language publications from all the results the search throws up, you'll see that only two of them have an ISBN listed. The results are more or less the same for any other Tamil term one looks up - and these, being books the British Library thought important enough to acquire, actually come from the better publishers, who're obviously more likely to acquire ISBNs than smaller publishers. --
1771:. There are many temples of Vandimalaiyasamy in Naduvirpatti at Ettayapuram. The one in south street of Naduvirpatti has a stone sculpture in sitting posture. But, I'd be more interested in majestic clay statues that are in lying posture. Actually, having both these photos could help to illustrate the influence of organised hinduism on these village practices. If you're going to Ettayapuram, just mail me and I'll give you my grandfather's contact number. --
865:
and asking a user the level of knowledge of something while in a dispute with them will only cause more problems than it will solve. Also him asking an ISBN # is to verify the source, I find it odd that Indian books do not have them, what do they use instead? If you feel you require help dealing with this user, follow the links on the WP:AN for dispute resolution at the top. Posting this dispute to the WP:AN is not the right thing to do at all.
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1088:(3rd edition, Wadhwa & Co., Delhi: 1999). It does not have an ISBN. This book is authoritative despite the absence of an ISBN: it was written by a judge of the Supreme Court, for heaven's sake! I'm happy to provide photos of the relevant pages of the book if you don't believe me, but you don't have to take my word for it. Search for terms in Indian languages on the British library's public catalgoue
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plastic dust cover. This same book can no doubt be found on many bookshelves in India. Surprisingly, however, I noticed that some of the books in my posession, also printed in India, which were of much lower quality had ISBN numbers. I'm not sure why that should be the case, but it is. Anyway, I hope that my observations may be of use to someone. Sincerely, --
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however, we never succeed because some one else comes along, doesn't spend time in understanding the policies of WP (doesn't spend time to even check the relevant links) and adds his own POV. Very few interact the way you do, and your interacting is a good thing, no doubt, but even in your case, I prefer that you read all the links rather than raise questions. --
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1091:, and you'll see how many of the recently-published books in native languages lack ISBNs. This obviously doesn't mean that any book is worth citing - a lot of what is published in India, particularly on ancient history, is utter rot. But the presence or absence of an ISBN is *not* a good way of separating the reliable from the unreliable. --
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of books by indian authors and i know it for a fact that any book authored by someone worth his salt has an ISBN. I havent come across any book that has been written by a reputed author and published by a publisher with some standing that doesnt have an ISBN. If someone is making that claim, sorry to say...he/she's just plain lying.
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To answer your question "If we are not aware of something, does it justify opposing it?" - Of course it does. That is how WP evolves - through negotiations and challenges and verifiability. If the subject is proven to be verifiable then it is allowed to exist by the community. Ayyavazhi in my opinion
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Apologies for butting into this conversation. Given that ISBNs are universal in the west, I see why you're skeptical. Nevertheless, I assure you that it is still common practice for books to be ISBN-less in India. ISBNs are common (though not universal) in
English-language publications, but are quite
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On the other hand, how come this user has not given a source for a post he made telling that a word has been lost in Tamil. How can he tell such false allegationse. He did not give any proof for that. When I ask him his credentials to level such a stance, he calls my question as stupid. Is this to be
1452:
When did TN government's vote grabbing attempts become equivalant to official recognition?! BTW the holiday was declared in a couple of districts of TN, and not for whole state. Does this make
Ayyavazhi notable enough to include in a encyclopediaic summary article of a bodily function? I don't think
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That indian books dont have ISBN numbers is the most ridiculous thing i have heard in a long while. If someone is trying to hide behind such a claim and push some POV, i request the admins and other wikipedians to put it down with an iron fist. I am Indian and have worked in Indian libraries full
1023:
I never said that "INDIA does not use ISBN #s on books" . That was a misinterpretation. Please be kind enough to read my posts and see. I told that "95Ā % of Indian books do not have ISBN." Also books published before 1980 do not have ISBN. Only a very few percent of Indian books (that too technical
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Let me clear the situation for you. Nohat said that
Protodravidian for 4 is naL, where as 4 in Tamil does not have the "L" and hence ......... He went to the extent of telling that the word "Nal" has been lost from Tamil. THe word "Nal" has NOT been lost from Tamil. It is still used in Tamil in the
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I find your behaviour towards Nohat more troubling than his to you. Please try to solve things in a more CIVIL mannor, and try to work together instead of quizzing him on qualificiations. Try to from a concencious, not an arguement. Also as pointed out qualificiations are not required to edit here,
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I just fixed the links in the article. They wouldn't work because you put an extra character at the end. You don't have to pipe external links, just put a space. Sorry about the misunderstanding. Non-working external links on suspected hoaxes don't give me warm feelings, but I see it was just a
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The current state of the article (before your edits) doesn't have my endorsement and I do realise that it has POV issues. However, the way to remove it is not through adding other POV. Regular editors like me try hard to maintain whatever sanctity remains and then work slowly in removing all POV -
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With due respect to you, I am astonished that you "find it hard to believe that Indian books do not carry ISBN numbers." THis is called as
Cultural Divide, where in you are not able to accept that there is a world outside your country. By the way, even Bible did not have an ISBN number when it was
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My concern is "how can nohat (or for that matter anyone) tell that the word Nal (or for that matter any word) has been lost from Tamil, where as it is been still used in day to day life. What right does he have to proclaim a word as "lost". WHen we say that words are lost from a language, it means
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Yes... Magazines do not have ISBN.... What to do...... Forget that. There are few donkeys in the world, who do not even have a magazine to quote. They just type all the rubbish that comes to their mind. When the mistakes are pointed out, they act like illiterate goons, pretending as if they cannot
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guideline which prevents us from doing precicely this. There a literally thousands of minor religions in this world, and all of them probably have an opinion on menstruation. What will happen if all these thousands of religions want mention in that article? We are compiling an encyclopedia, not a
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status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on
Knowledge (XXG) (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases
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And then there are few other problems also 1. Most Indian books do not have ISBN 2. Many Indian Books are not available in Amazon 3. Most Indian Books are not indexed by Google Books. (You have to send the book to their address and for that postage costs atleast 10 times the cost of the
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I would like to offer my knowledge of the subject. After reading this discussion, I went to my bookshelf to check. My copy of Srimad
Bhagavatam, published by Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, Mumbai, has no ISBN that I am able to find. It is a hardbound book with strong pages, a stiched binding, and a
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I agree that few users (or rather one user), if unchecked, would have created such an impression as if
Ayyavazhi was the most dominant religion in India and we have the moral obligation to oppose that. But my question was "are we justified to be over zealous to remove the name from the list of
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contains the data from the 2001 census and a spreadsheet which contains state-wise data. The data from Tamil Nadu has the number of Hindus, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Jains, Budhists, Others and
Relegion not stated. There are 54985079 Hindus, 7252 'others' and 59344 who have not stated their
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article though well cited was deleted by me. The second statement you added under criticism was in first person & also did not adhere to NPOV. It's a good thing that you cite your sources (most people don't even do that!) but remember to get as close as you can to NPOV. I hope this won't
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I was a bit confused. When my line comparing sachin with other batsman (in
Pakistan) was removed, I thought may be it was a policy (this is Sachin's page, why bring others). But 2 paras above, there were a lot of remarks (Rahul scored when sachin did not score etc). THat was Why I asked
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What will you do when some user goes on vandalising pages. You ban him. Why do you have special privilages for an Administrator who says that a word has been lost from a language. Is it not insulting to the language, the culture and the crores of people for whom this is a mother tongue.
1686:
By the way, DoctorBruno, since you mentioned that you live/work in Puthiamputhur, can you take photographs of Vandimalaiyasamy, Vandimalaichchiamman, Muththaalaiyamman, etc., The majestic deities have since been replaced with stone sculptures in sitting position in my native place,
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was was this the first time TN government try to get the votes of a minority group. Obviously there are quite a few followers of Ayyavazhi in the districts mentioned, although they may think themselves as non-hindus. Declaring a holiday IMO is a way of pandering to this group. -
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I am NOT ASSUMING that I am correct. HE IS WRONG. That has been proved. The User has given as COMPLETELY BASELESS INCORRECT ALLEGATION about a language. He says that a word does not exist in Tamil, where as in fact it very well exists. There is no need for mediation here.
1318:* 13.1 Buddhism on menstruation * 13.2 Christianity on menstruation * 13.3 Hinduism on menstruation * 13.4 Islam on menstruation * 13.5 Judaism on menstruation * 13.6 Sikhism on menstruation * 13.7 Tribal societies and menstruation * 13.8 Mysticism
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By the way, if you could find the source of the statement that "Jeyaraj has been drawing for various magazines for 25 years", that would be an excellent indication of how skillful he is. And once we have the source for it, we should then put it in right away. ā
1498:. For example, if I create an article on, say, a species of three eyed monkey, and base the article solely on my having seen the monkey, it will be challenged and deleted from WP. Notability and verifiability demands that any subject documented should be (a)
457:" link (it is located at the very top of any Knowledge (XXG) page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on
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The government in 2001 may not have counted Ayyavazhi as a seperate religion. But the same government declares an occasion as Gazetted Holiday in 2006 (for the first time). Does it tell you something. If there is a change in 2006, why not we accept that
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has utterly failed in the notability and verifiability criteria. Going by your argument anyone can create any article on any subject and use your argument to justify its existence. It will totally undermine WP's reliability as a source. -
1504:- ie should be independently documented from a neutral point of view by a reliable third party, meaning I can't one of my friends to create a website on the three-eyed monkey and cite that website as reference in my WP article, and (b)
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There are papers and magazines in Tamil which do not even have an online edition, let alone something that is accesible for paid useers. Any way, I will try to give some references (from standard books) while updating the article in
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religions page". If you reflect now (as you have already said), the name deserves a mention in the list of religions page. But Why did you delete it three times from that pageĀ ?? Please note that this is not a personal question.
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I think you have totally misunderstood my reply. I said WP evolves and grows based on challenges and skepticism by the WP community. We don't (shouldn't) anything at face value. The most imortant criteria in Knowledge (XXG) is its
659:. Medical student syndrome is a much more commonly used term, and the phenomenon is a global one. Therefore, there shouldn't be different articles for the same term in regional dialects of English. You are free to add more to
805:. Please don't do this, and I would encourage you to avoid spamming the User Talk pages of lots of people, too. If you have an issue that you would like admins to deal with, it is better to post a single message to the
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I have made comments on Dravid's talk page regarding your use of second innings stats to compare Dravid and Tendulkar, because I do not think you have not compared them on an equal setting. Also there are other POV
1654:. I'd suggest that they publish more on this subject in peer-reviewed conferences and journals and then add relevant references here. Because, Knowledge (XXG) is not a place for submitting primary research results.
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Please note that I am not a follower of that religion, but I feel that we don't have any right to deny an existence of a religion. When you permit Tribal societies and Mysticism, I feel that Ayyavazhi has a place.
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It was after seeing this man that I wrote Kalaigalile Aval Oviyam." In the song `Kalangalil Aval Vasantham,' the poet describes the heroine as the Spring among seasons and painting as supreme among the fine
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I have told from the first instance that I am not endorsing the hyperactive pro-ayyavazhi wikipedians. My aim in this discussion is to bring to your (and other wikipedian's) notice the above phenomenon of
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I honestly do not have the time to add more information to an existing article. I try to work on whatis available. Anyone is welcome to expand the article then i can work in tandem to wikify the article.
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This is factually incorrect. Many books by reputed authors in India do, in fact, lack ISBNs. For example, one of the standard commentaries on the law of arbitration in India is Bhachawat, Justice R.S.,
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world fact book.Tribal societies and mysticism are generalised sections in that article which give an overview of the practices. Ayyavazhi with its miniscule followers does not belong in that article. -
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That's not necessary. I'd be cool with just the title, author, ISBN etc. Sorry if this whole thing seems heavy-handed, but the constant reversion of 'orange' is frustrating, so I want to just have it
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You are doing a great work. And i am grateful that you are not moving the contents from the Article Section to the Talk Page, instead of deleting that altogether. Carry the good work. All the best
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He calls me stupid for asking a legitimate question (after he uttered an TOTALLY INCORRECT INFORMATION). I demand an apology. And you find MY behaviour more troubling. I cannot understand this
1510:- ie should be relatively well know beyond a select group of people. In this example, I can't claim notability for the three-eyed monkey just because myself and a friend of mine have seen it.
622:, does not allow people to access its articles on the Internet without paying for the website. So the articles from the newspaper are not available from the Internet for many Singaporeans. ā
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Sorry for my messages. I did not know what to do. I wanted to bring it to the notice of some one high up because this insult was by an administrator. I got your advice. I will do as you say
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If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "
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I may not be able to contribute to Knowledge (XXG) at least for some time, since I have to devote my time for a lot of activities including shifting to my new place of work at Chennai
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95Ā % Indian books do not have ISBN. Well as I have already given, the Bible published till 19th century did not have ISBN. It is like that only. Only 5Ā % of Indian books have ISBN.
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died way back in 1981. I am sure that this is not something that stands with {]. But there are very few articles about Tamil People who are not sportsperson or Cinema Artists
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With reference to your comment on my talk page that "Ayyavazhi is not even a recognised religion in India", Sorry for my ignorance. What is a "recognised religion" in India
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780:, as an internal auditor of my Bank - I have also been to your native palce - I hope to see you, at least talk with you over phone. Have a nice time, and all the best! --
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Hi! All the religions you mention about are a million times more notable than Ayyavazhi. Ayyavazhi is not even a recognised religion in India. Knowledge (XXG) has a
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had inserted Ayyavazhi is places it does not belong. There is no reason an obscure faith such as Ayyavazhi should be listed on par with the world's major religions.
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Sorry, I did not mean that an artist's skillfulness can be "proven". I was not thinking of the correct words when I made that statement. I was thinking more about
1724:, but unfortuantely many people, perhaps being over zealous in preserving notability (which is per se not wrong), go over board and assume from the other end.
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Can you please explain to me as to why I cannot assume I am correct. Ask Nohat to prove that the word "nal" has been lost from Tamil. If not he has to apologise.
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would cover more of such subjects. I'm interested in collecting references to the so-called "pagan" religions that stand largely hinduised now. Yes, there's a
1650:, but not in summary articles like Menstrual Cycle etc., at least not yet. Let us try to add valid references from among those suggested by Vaikunda Raja at
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I have written 6 medical books. Only 5 of those have ISBN. 3 publishers got the ISBN Numbers. The other publisher did not get the number. What can I do.
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Any how, my simple question is that "Just because we are not aware of something, it is justified that we oppose articles about it in Knowledge (XXG)"
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Place comments that start a new topic at the bottom of the page and give them ==A Descriptive Header==. If you're new to Knowledge (XXG), please see
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If an article is questioned based on the notability and verifiability criteria, it is not because the article is untrue, but it just means it is
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Moreover, lot of books related to this are in Tamil. How can he go through them when he does not even have the basic knowledge of the language.
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I understand your problem, I do have occasional problems like this with Singapore articles too, because the main English newspaper in Singapore,
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I find it very odd that some one can insult some one so publically and yet get away without apologising. Is this the way this WIKIPEDIA runs.
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Also please stop demanding appoligies, in a dispute you cannot assume you are correct, you have to assume good faith and try to work it out.
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What to do if there are no internet pages that tell that line. This is the problem with articles dealing with topics from non English Issues
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If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use
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Where did you get the etymology for the word 'orange'? It needs to be cited because every source I've consulted gives a different story.--
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Is it not odd that he does not even know a word in tamil, but tells that the word naal does not exist in tamil. Who gives him such rights.
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day to day workds Naalavathu (meaning fourth) and Naalvagai (meaning four kinds). In fact "Nal" as well as "naangu" means four in tamil.
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Hence you cannot say that some thing is not notifiable just because it is not found in these places I can give another example. See
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article. Ayyavazhi is not notable enough to be mentioned there and in a number of places. It is the same as including Ayyavazhi in the
1767:, you can ask someone about these deities and where they're situated. I know of at least one Muthalaiyamman temple near the Bazaar in
1301:). There is nothing wrong creating dozens of Ayyavazhi articles, but it is wrong creating links from every possible location on WP. -
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that J is a skilled illustratorĀ ??? Which book with ISBN can you quote for that or is there a book in Amazon with his illustrations
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He is a well known tamil artist. What kind of "proof" do you needĀ ??. Every one in Tamil nadu who reads Tamil magazines knows him.
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books) have ISBN. I don't know how I can explain this to you. This is a fact. How can 'I' explain. You have to ask the publishers.
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03:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC) Please correct me if I am wrong. I want a discussion and not an argument The following copied from
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read...... What do you comment about the uncivil idiots who do not have the basic decency to edit their own mistakes
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Coming to the Ayyavazhi issue, I have nothing against the faith itself or its followers. My only issue was the way
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I saw your comments on my talk page - life is a process of learning, and we continue to learn. I have seen most of
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I forgot from where I quoted those reference. But I will give you the textbook, (if possible scan the page) soon
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I can't claim non-existence for the three-eyed monkey just because myself and a friend of mine have not seen it
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in societies favouring organised religions, but WP can't do much about it in the absence of primary sources.
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He has scored runs. Why can't that be added. I feel that his failures fill the page rather than the success.
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Knowledge (XXG) has to rely on published information which can be verified, not "every one knows." It was
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claiming non-existence for the three-eyed monkey just because myself and a friend of mine have not seen it
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I can't claim notability for the three-eyed monkey just because myself and a friend of mine have seen it.
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By the way, my district collector (meaning State Govt) declares an holiday on one of their festivals
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but it does show that WP works. There is a conversation happening and a compromise will be reached.
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Some of the places you have been placing your messages are completely inappropriate; in particular
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page perhaps warrents a mention os Ayyavazhi, that is why I agreed to leave it there. But See
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I am glad that you are "curious" and not "astonished". Curiosity is the beginning of learning.
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who proposed this for deletion as a suspected hoax. But, for instance, a Google search for
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rare in vernacular publications. You can verify this yourself if you like by going over to
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When did TN government's vote grabbing attempts become equivalant to official recognition?
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This is my opinion. Please correct me if I am wrong. I want a discussion and not argument
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WP article. An encyclopedia does not contain unverified information, nor does it contain
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relegion. Obviously, the government has not counted Ayyavazhi as a seperate relegion.
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I suppose the census data is one of the things that distinguish a 'recognised' relegion.
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Sorry. That was a mistake. I have removed that. I did not realise the wrong filter used.
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link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.
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There is an isbn agency in india, but india does not use ISBN #s on books? Curious.
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You can use sources that do not exist on the Internet at all. As long as it is a
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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syntax error. Thanks for the contributions and the willingness to improve it!
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If you are not able to see your messages in this page, please see the Archives
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has been proposed for deletion. Please provide sources for the information.
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http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/international/group_agencies_info.asp
1375:(for example), I think the same logic should be followed for Ayyavazhi also
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Similarly, I feel that it should be included in the list of religions also
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http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Bhadani#Insulting_behaviour_by_User_Nohat
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in the Ayyavazhi articles, it is not appropriate to insert it in the main
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which has been growing in the (correct) aim of preserving notability.
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When you are mentioning "In Kumaon region of Uttranchal" in the page of
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What you call negative points remain because they are cited as per
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brings up no hits. The external link you provided goes nowhere.
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The work I saw this is a magazine, and there will be no ISBN.
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Let's not go into all that. Yes, Ayyavazhi merits a place in
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Again this is MY opinion and I would like to see a consensus
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Again this is MY opinion and I would like to see a consensus
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it does not matter if it can be accessible from the Internet.
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http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/31/stories/2006013114800600.htm
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591:] where it is given that Kannadasan told about Jeyaraj
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I am not familiar with your problems with the article
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for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.
249:
1781:I'll also see if I can be around that time.Ā :-) --
227:If something requires immediate attention, you can
1321:What is wrong in Having Ayyavazhi on Menstraution
655:, I have changed it to a redirect to the article
1247:I have just one doubt. Is criticsm against NPOV
444:Knowledge (XXG):Image copyright tags#Fair_use
207:Please sign your comments using four tildes (
8:
803:User:Larry Sanger/Origins of Knowledge (XXG)
1286:While there is nothing wrong in mentioning
1371:and not limiting to mention Duryodhana in
121:
1588:
18:User talk:Mariano Anto Bruno Mascarenhas
116:and may not respond swiftly to queries.
1048:the British Library's Public Catalogue
941:that the language is dying. Isn't it.
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
7:
745:magazine!!! aah! how convenientĀ :)
448:Knowledge (XXG):Image copyright tags
1086:Law of Arbitration and Conciliation
442:or one of the other tags listed at
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1216:discourage you from editing.
962:aww...bruno...just SHUT UP!!
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730:16:00, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
718:02:38, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
708:17:39, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
678:talk:medical student syndrome
485:02:47, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
434:, and then use a tag such as
466:03:30, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
459:criteria for speedy deletion
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1714:Dear Parthi, I accept that
807:Administrator's Noticeboard
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1720:What I am telling is that
1652:Talk:History of Tamil Nadu
1277:02:00, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
1267:01:00, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
1252:14:45, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
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817:11:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
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631:14:22, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
604:13:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
585:13:47, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
576:13:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
219:frequently asked questions
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155:to leave me a new message.
1786:06:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
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505:Jeyaraj "Kalaignar Award"
495:15:04, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
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1763:If you're anywhere near
1282:Ayyavazhi and Duryodhana
987:Please explain this then
676:I've reverted that. See
661:medical student syndrome
657:medical student syndrome
426:to release it under the
405:Image:TvMC_Panoramic.jpg
373:Image:TvMC_Panoramic.jpg
132:I am busy in Real Life.
1591:stub image for religion
841:Please see my reply at
653:First Clinical Syndrome
647:First clinical syndrome
1747:substantiate the claim
1659:Religion in Tamil Nadu
1211:Hi! Your edits to the
526:for some guidelines.
1569:- See this discussion
402:Thanks for uploading
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331:Jan 2006 to June 2006
326:June 2005 to Dec 2005
309:Edited from Main Page
112:This user is busy in
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438:Non-free fair use in
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651:About your article
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725:settled.--
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304:RFA Thanks
95:ArchiveĀ 10
1745:] How to
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1691:.Ā :-( --
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446:. See
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772:Hello
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