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they should've done more. It's hard to argue against such a logic since apparently the
Western Allies knew perfectly well that they could not live up to their promises. Sadly enough, they did not notify Poland of their plans and used it as a cannon fodder. Oversimplifying a bit, the main cause of Polish defeat in 1939 was naivity and belief in Western promises. On the other hand - who would not believe in promises made by the two most powerful, influential and developed countries of the time?
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Finally, as to your main question whether the Allies should and could help Poland more in 1939: as you yourself probably know it's not an easy question. Most Poles believe (and public education gives countless arguments to back up this thesis) that the Allies could do more and promised to do more so
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It took me many years of studying various evidence (mostly of military and diplomatical nature, including various documents published only once during the WWII and in small numbers) to finally understand that the matter is much more complex and the Allies' behaviour includes much more than just a
164:. I hope you get the difference. Also, you can ask any Pole here in English wikipedia if he heard of such phenomenon. I bet he )or she) would answer yes, despite of his or hers personal views or beliefs. If so, I believe that the topic is worth explaining.
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Also, whether the Allies could do more or not is a matter of personal opinion. And it's a fact that many Poles feel that way. Also, it has nothing to do with Polish nationalism. It's about feelings of a large part of Polish nationals. Get the difference?
235:, since that is how the phenomenon could be translated to English. AAMoF the title should be "Various attitudes towards Western Allies' policies towards Central Europe". However, this name, although descriptive, might be simply too long.
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Also, the name was sort of a compromise with John Kenney since on early stages of development the article was still about actual Allied policies, not about different attitudes towards them. I'm thinking of naming the finished article
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Also, thanks for polishing your comments at my talk page. They are much more readable and civilized now. Using this tactics you'll find much more people willing to answer your arguments rather than quarrel with you. Cheers!
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and that's why I decided to prepare a new one. So far the info about nations other than Poland is but a sketch. Hopefully some time later someone will drop in and explain the feelings of other societies better than I did.
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Apology accepted. Welcome to the international world of
Knowledge. Hope you have fun; good editing in the future. If you edit lots of articles then we will probably meet again. I got started here because I found the
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As you see the matter is complex and claiming that the Allies could or could not help Poland in 1939 (or later in the course of war) would be an oversimplification. Fortunately, it is not relevant to the
88:? It is going to cause quite a bit of discussion and annoyance to say the least. The same applies to your other moves. Please stop doing them until we have discussed the issue.
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As to the VfD - I won't do it for the simple reason that it's not needed. IMHO when the article is ready, the present version could be simply replaced with a redirect.
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Since the article describes a sociological and historical phenomenon rather than a deed or a person, the article is mostly focused on the country I know the most.
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Could Poland be spared Soviet occupation and loss of Polish-inhabitated lands just outside of the present Polish eastern border if only the Allies tried -
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was not appreciated. Please do not add 'profanity' to pages, even if you are not an admirer of their content. And please do not mark such edits as minor.
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Also, in Poland the sense of betrayal by the
Western Allies is the strongest (AFAIK). The purpose of this article is to explain
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since, as I already said, it's not about whether the Allies could or should do more. It's about what the people here believe.
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page I assume that the topic is much more popular than you think. Also, wikipedia is not about popular topics. Check the
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As to your comments on my Talk page: please allow me to spend my time on what I want. From the number of replies at the
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As you already noticed, the article under construction is mostly focused on Poland. There are two reasons behind that:
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Could Poland limit the losses in 1939 if only the Allies didn't give promises they knew they couldn't live up to -
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Could the Allies help Poland with arms and supplies before the war, just as they promised in various pacts -
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article was pathetic, and I couldn't rest until it was brought up to a decent level. Then I found that the
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Did the Allies have the strategical advantage for such an offensive to succeed, at least to some extent -
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Would it mean that the
Soviets would not be able to take power in Poland a bit later (as they did in
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Did the Allies have the doctrines and officers brilliant enough to carry out such an offensive -
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I see that you erased my pieces of advice. Hopefully you'll bear them in mind in the future.
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Anyway, to make long thing short, the topic can be shortened by a series of short questions:
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Did the Allies have an army powerful enough to seize the
Rheinland and Ruhr by 1940 -
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Could the Allies issue pressure on Stalin and save Polish sovereignity during the
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Could such an offensive shorten the war and limit the losses significantly -
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Could the Allies help Poland with arms and supplies once the war started -
127:. Please cast your vote there, in favor of its deletion on grounds of POV.
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It is somehow similar to the articles about psychology: the article on
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Once
Germany attacked USSR could Poland's eastern border be saved -
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Could Poland be saved in 1939 by one, strong blow towards Berlin -
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Did the Allies promise Poland more than they could live up to -
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that a democratic elections are held in Poland after the war -
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Could the Allies start an offensive against
Germany in 1939 -
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Did the Allies promise Poland more than they actually did -
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at least the same way they supported the French in 1944 -
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Given a couple of further edits by you, can I indicate
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I wonder if you would mind explaining why you moved
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Could such an offensive be succesful - I'm not sure
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74:Hi. I think you were trying to do #REDIRECT ]
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136:Talk:Poland's betrayal by the Western Allies
107:article was even worse... See you around.
117:Poland's betrayal by the Western Allies
174:why are people afraid of public spaces
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
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158:were the countries actually betrayed
162:could the Allies not betray Poland
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86:European Theatre of World War II
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377:Could the Allies ensure at the
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182:should public spaces be feared
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154:why people feel/felt betrayed
125:Knowledge:Votes for Deletion
178:are public places dangerous
140:Knowledge:What is Knowledge
70:Archive for 6/29/04-7/11/04
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343:Polish government-in-exile
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436:08:13, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
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341:Could the Allies support
255:simple lack of good will.
197:22:53, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)
78:01:30, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
428:Hullo. Your addition to
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210:23:02, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)
105:Allied invasion of Italy
94:16:14, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
111:13:04, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
18:User talk:Naryathegreat
42:of past discussions.
430:functional equation
441:Knowledge:Civility
353:Teheran Conference
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101:Battle of Normandy
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