174:- This is indeed a very important issue. As nom stated, the title is POV, & needs to be changed to a neutral word (for example; stench, smell, aroma...). Other than that, I feel that the article can be rewritten, although it may take a while. It needs to be wikified too. With a bit of tender care, it should become a good article. I would have had no hesitation to delte the article had it been unreferenced, but as it is, it has a number of citations. So because the article only needs to be rewritten, i cast my vote as a keep. Maybe send it to a wikiproject that specializes in the topic, or get someone interested in the subject to work on it. If no progress is made, or it's too big a task, send it back here for a second look... Thanks,
231:
is today in the stage of development considered by experts as post-communism capitalism. So is the education. The government tries to keep up with
European Union goals, and education is parts of its effort to realize a definitive departure from the communist style." If these types of conclusions are to be drawn, there needs to be more thought given to them. While I could imagine an encyclopedia article focusing on the Romanian educational system (and indeed I have no doubt that the Romanian educational system under the Communists was deficient and used for propaganda purposes, as this author asserts), I think in doing so we are well-advised to start from scratch, with a new title but also entirely new content. Thus I vote
338:
The title should be something like "Communist education policy in
Romania (1946-1989)" (or whatever the correct dates are). Then you'd need sections on "Education policy in the Stalinist era" and "Education under Ceausescu", for example, to show the differences in policy between those two periods. Finally, you could have a section on "Legacy in post-Communist Romania" or whatever to show the continuing effects today. I'm not sure words like "impose" are POV in this context; after all, we're talking about characters like Stalin, Gheorghiu-Dej and Ceausescu, who weren't the world's greatest consensus-seekers to put it mildly. --
600:. First, just because Stalinism is a bad thing, it doesn't mean any article making the point "Stalinism is a bad thing" is okay. Despite whatever laudable moral purpose you may have in writing the article, it still is conclusory and not backed by any apparent research into the subject. Indeed, the article is still a series of general conclusions about the subject instead of anything providing actual information. Second, the article makes claims about things other than Stalinism, including Romania today. So your conclusions may be true, but you need to back them up.
519:
required to explain why so many things changed so fast. I changed the title and could be improved it again. I still wait for suggestions. Any changes to transform it into a real wiki are very wellcommed. I could use these parts in "History of education in
Romania" or "Education in Romania". But it could stand also as an independent article because this topic is something different from the rest. And it is important not only for Romania but for any East-European country or for those who want to know sad facts of communism.
204:: the article repeats itself multiple times, and it needs a lot of work to get it up to an acceptable level of quality. I do not mean to be harsh. This is just an honest assessment. Also, the article has its good points. As for a title, I suggest "Romanian education following/after World War Two" or "Romanian education in the communist era". --
230:
I understand the impulse to overhaul this article, but really this reads like a "C" paper someone wrote for school and then pasted to the internet. It is very tendentious throughout, with the author making many assertions without much reflection, let alone evidence or sourcing: "Consequently, Romania
337:
A potentially useful article could be made out of this, but at the moment it's too much like an essay. Inline citations might help (though they certainly aren't necessary to save this article from deletion). You also need to put a few more dates in. The scope of the article needs defining properly.
518:
Thank you for reading my article. I believe this is not a 'POV'. Stalinism could hardly be viewed as 'neutral'. It was not good or bad; it was only bad and it should be mentioned real facts. It is not an eassy. There were too many historical parts,and I agree with this point but I thought it was
124:
This reads (to me at least) like an essay rather than an encyclopedia article. Admittedly it's been improved a bit since I first made that comment to the article's creator, but I don't feel that it's entirely salvageable. The title, for example, is quite POV ("Imposed"), and the introduction reads
652:
education in particular, not relevant to the article as a whole. In addition, there's a link to the
Library of Congress site and the Church. This is someone's college essay. If a freshman handed it in to me, it would be given a C. The only thing saving it from a C- is that there arent that many
95:
90:
99:
82:
187:
125:
like a term paper. More than likely, this is an important subject, although in its present form it's not a good way of covering it. It also may be that there are other articles which already cover the same ground in a more neutral manner, but I'm not sure of that.
272:
I agree with
Everyking and The Anome, this is a worthy topic for an article. However, the current title is too unwieldy and sounds like something that would be OR. Furthermore, the article is a mess now, a blank slate with a more concise title is in order.
408:, since the article was nominated, someone has moved it to a far more appropriate name, stripped it down to about half its original size, rewritten large chunks, and added references and citations. It's still a bit iffy, but starting to show some promise.
677:
to allow for further rewriting (mainly to cite sources and alter to adhere to NPOV). Worthy topic, and despite the problems that are mentioned it seems salvageable. Suggest revisiting this article in 2-4 weeks if sufficient progress hasn't been made.
248:—the whole thing is a POV mess, right down to the title. Absolutely yes to an article on reforms in the Romanian education system following World War II, but let's have it on a clean slate rather than have any of this junk lingering around.
648:, which are not backed by inline citations, and are frankly disputable as billy-o. Two of the minimal references discuss the Republic of Moldova, not to Romania, as the essay purports to discuss. One of the remainder is a study of
537:
Dorian, while I heartily concur with you that
Stalinism was by no means a good thing, that doesn't mean that an article can blatantly be anti-Stalinism. As an encyclopedia, Knowledge (XXG) must remain
542:
and utilize value-free language. The article does have some POV problems, though I don't think they are too substantial. I still think the article should be renamed to something along the lines of
686:
669:
657:
624:
604:
588:
563:
548:
526:
508:
492:
472:
458:
445:
433:
417:
400:
378:
366:
342:
329:
317:
304:
289:
277:
264:
252:
239:
222:
208:
194:
178:
164:
147:
64:
313:- this is not the place for essays, even if they are of a slightly higher standard than the "Oh-new-idea-I-thought-up-over-bangers-n-mash-at-lunch" dreck that usually makes an appearance at AFD.
646:
In
Romania the socialist regime tried using education chiefly as a main way to justify it. They tried to instil passion only for manual labour and discourage intellectual pursuits.
325:. The history of education in Romania under Communist rule is a worthy subject. The article is referenced, verifiable, and informative. It wants editing, not deletion. -
86:
78:
70:
429:- This article has a lot of potential. I agree that it reads like a term paper but that's just an argument for people to get in there and work on improving it. --
190:
know about this article. Not sure if that's the correct wikiproject to have look at it, but I couldn't find a better one. Hopefully they'll have some insight. --
374:
without prejudice to recreation under another title and in a different style of writing. The article as-is reads like a term paper and is unsalvageable. —
386:
with a hope that somebody might make a useful brief article (or part of another article) on the topic, possibly using some of this as raw material.--
17:
139:
if an admin gets the chance to fix this one up, the Talk page has been moved to a separate location, which is odd to say the least.
576:
701:
36:
700:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
484:
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
500:
This is certainly not a narrow topic. It affected the lives of around 23 million people. I would move for
601:
469:
359:
236:
489:
442:
441:
the revised version. Worthy topic. The content could be improved substantially, but it's a start.
480:
Completely unmanagable title, narrow topic, relevant info should be merged to relevant articles.
217:
188:
Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject
Military history/Russian and Soviet military history task force
679:
430:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
191:
161:
144:
130:
654:
584:
413:
375:
58:
454:
term paper, maybe). It may be long, but there is virtually no real information in there.
351:
644:. Every single paragraph is almost 80% strongly POV. There continue to be phrases like
618:
481:
455:
261:
249:
216:. This article has a lot of information but is written in a poor encyclopaedic manner.
175:
666:
621:
560:
523:
505:
363:
339:
314:
301:
286:
260:, and recommend the creation of a new article with a new title, as per Everyking. --
559:"Soviet Romania" would be wrong, since Romania was never part of the USSR itself. --
545:
397:
274:
116:
79:
Transformations imposed by the Soviet Union in
Romanian Education after the WW II
71:
Transformations imposed by the Soviet Union in
Romanian Education after the WW II
326:
205:
157:
140:
126:
580:
409:
49:
539:
450:
Substantially is putting it mildly, and "term paper" is generous (
617:
In other words, read this section about NPOV on Knowledge (XXG)
694:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
649:
112:
108:
104:
156:Never mind, turns out I could move it back myself.
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
704:). No further edits should be made to this page.
577:Romanian Education after the Second World War
8:
396:Looks like nothing more than someones essay
620:("Let the facts speak for themselves").--
285:WP is not a place for POV term papers.
350:Appears to be an essay and seems to be
297:The title was changed as suggested here
468:per Everyking. This is unsalvageable.
579:(old title is just a redirect now).
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
24:
544:Education in Soviet Romania." --
354:. If anything is salvageable,
133:00:06, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
1:
687:00:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
670:17:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
658:09:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
625:10:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
605:02:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
589:00:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
564:20:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
549:20:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
527:16:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
509:09:59, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
493:05:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
473:02:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
459:10:43, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
446:09:57, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
434:05:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
418:02:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
401:00:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
390:21:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
379:18:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
367:17:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
343:14:55, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
330:14:47, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
318:12:40, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
305:11:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
290:11:09, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
278:11:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
265:09:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
253:09:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
240:08:47, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
223:06:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
209:04:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
195:02:03, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
179:00:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
165:05:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
148:05:41, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
65:10:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
721:
697:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
642:Still Delete, strongly
502:keep pending revision
186:. I let the folks at
360:Education in Romania
653:spelling mistakes.
172:Keep - but overhaul
352:original research
214:Keep and re-write
63:
712:
699:
684:
575:been renamed to
487:
389:
220:
120:
102:
61:
57:
52:
34:
720:
719:
715:
714:
713:
711:
710:
709:
708:
702:deletion review
695:
680:
607:Allon Fambrizzi
602:Allon Fambrizzi
587:
485:
470:Pavel Vozenilek
416:
387:
327:Smerdis of Tlön
242:Allon Fambrizzi
237:Allon Fambrizzi
218:
162:Schreit mich an
145:Schreit mich an
131:Schreit mich an
93:
77:
74:
59:
50:
44:The result was
37:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
718:
716:
707:
706:
690:
689:
672:
660:
638:
637:
636:
635:
634:
633:
632:
631:
630:
629:
628:
627:
609:
608:
592:
591:
583:
571:: the article
566:
521:
520:
512:
511:
495:
475:
463:
462:
461:
436:
420:
412:
403:
391:
381:
369:
345:
332:
320:
299:
298:
292:
280:
267:
255:
243:
225:
211:
199:
198:
197:
169:
168:
167:
122:
121:
73:
68:
42:
41:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
717:
705:
703:
698:
692:
691:
688:
685:
683:
676:
673:
671:
668:
664:
661:
659:
656:
651:
647:
643:
640:
639:
626:
623:
619:
616:
613:
612:
611:
610:
606:
603:
599:
596:
595:
594:
593:
590:
586:
582:
578:
574:
570:
567:
565:
562:
558:
555:
554:
553:
552:
551:
550:
547:
541:
536:
533:
532:
531:
530:
529:
528:
525:
517:
514:
513:
510:
507:
503:
499:
496:
494:
491:
488:
483:
479:
476:
474:
471:
467:
464:
460:
457:
453:
449:
448:
447:
444:
440:
437:
435:
432:
428:
424:
421:
419:
415:
411:
407:
404:
402:
399:
395:
392:
385:
382:
380:
377:
373:
370:
368:
365:
361:
357:
353:
349:
346:
344:
341:
336:
333:
331:
328:
324:
321:
319:
316:
312:
309:
308:
307:
306:
303:
296:
293:
291:
288:
284:
281:
279:
276:
271:
268:
266:
263:
259:
256:
254:
251:
247:
244:
241:
238:
234:
229:
226:
224:
221:
219:Atlantis Hawk
215:
212:
210:
207:
203:
200:
196:
193:
189:
185:
182:
181:
180:
177:
173:
170:
166:
163:
159:
155:
154:
153:
152:
151:
150:
149:
146:
142:
138:
132:
128:
118:
114:
110:
106:
101:
97:
92:
88:
84:
80:
76:
75:
72:
69:
67:
66:
62:
56:
53:
47:
40:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
696:
693:
682:Markovich292
681:
674:
662:
645:
641:
614:
597:
572:
568:
556:
543:
534:
522:
515:
501:
497:
477:
465:
451:
438:
426:
422:
405:
393:
383:
371:
355:
347:
334:
322:
310:
300:
294:
282:
269:
257:
245:
232:
227:
213:
201:
192:Brad Beattie
183:
171:
136:
134:
123:
54:
45:
43:
31:
28:
388:Orange Mike
655:Hornplease
598:Two things
376:Psychonaut
665:per nom.
540:objective
456:Everyking
406:Weak keep
262:The Anome
250:Everyking
176:Spawn Man
667:WMMartin
622:Folantin
615:Comments
561:Folantin
524:DorianS1
506:Folantin
364:Agent 86
358:it into
340:Folantin
315:Moreschi
302:DorianS1
287:Eusebeus
557:Comment
546:The Way
535:Comment
516:Comment
498:Comment
452:failing
443:Stammer
431:Richard
427:rewrite
398:Caf3623
335:Comment
295:Comment
275:The Way
228:Comment
202:Comment
184:Comment
137:Comment
96:protect
91:history
663:Delete
569:Coment
478:Delete
466:Delete
394:Delete
384:Delete
372:Delete
348:Delete
311:Delete
283:Delete
270:Delete
258:Delete
246:Delete
233:delete
206:Kjkolb
158:BigHaz
141:BigHaz
127:BigHaz
100:delete
46:delete
581:Xtifr
482:Rever
410:Xtifr
356:merge
117:views
109:watch
105:links
51:Proto
16:<
675:Keep
650:Roma
585:tälk
504:. --
439:Keep
425:and
423:Keep
414:tälk
323:Keep
113:logs
87:talk
83:edit
60:type
573:has
490:ndG
362:.
273:--
235:.
160:-
143:-
135:**
129:-
115:|
111:|
107:|
103:|
98:|
94:|
89:|
85:|
55:::
48:.
486:e
119:)
81:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.