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the canvassing. Given I can't see the evidence and have not been privy to the WPTC discord logs since my departure on March 26, I have no way of knowing whether the existing evidence substantiates this claim. I also don't have the time to go through everyone's edits on WP to look for more instances, however, I provided 3 older ones below that occurred against me. The issue as you highlighted (along with the older ones I added below) is project ownership of content, blanking (reverting to a redirect), assuming bad faith (not always, but this has happened), and biting people. Is that a fair assessment? If so, this issue has been going on for nearly four years or greater.
1311:, so all three reports were practically not valid. With regards to my talk page, I will admit I do read my talk page anytime I get a message, however I frequently forget to reply afterwards (coupled with increasing school schedules as noted by my decrease in activity here posted above) and not do so after. That admittedly has caused me to look bad in a way so I have been trying to reply more often. Regarding the canvassing stuff, I think most of my opinion for that was summed up on the opening case request / workshop, but I will reiterate I wasn’t aware that what me and Noah was considered canvassing. --
1357:
into school and college and don’t check as frequently and when I do I end up forgetting to reply. I’m sorry if it’s made it seem like I haven’t taken that into account. Finally the “on-wiki canvassing” is not accurate, at least from my view: USM was involved in the prior RfCs for the color discussions so I decided to leave a message on his talk page because of that. I’ll admit I probably used the wrong language (“unfortunately”) but I think in the heat of the moment I was not happy with the changes given I had been unaware of the revived RfC. --
1452:, but does indicate that of the two editors involved in the article's creation, only one could have seen the discussion without going through the archives—and then only in the first month's tenure—Nioni1234 Both of these facts—an immediate assumption of bad faith in what other editors might do, an unwillingness to hold one's self to the same instructions, and failing to look at the histories of other editors demonstrate, I would argue, the full gamut of
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community. Off-wiki discussions by their nature limit participation in discussion to a subset of users who know about them and have access to them, and this practice undermines the community process. While it is clear that the community has no authority to prevent off-wiki discussion by any who choose to do so, we can declare the decisions made by such groups as having no standing in the encyclopedia. · · ·
1302:’s evidence regarding myself I would like to explain a few things. The edit-wars is unfortunately sort of a commonplace thing within WPTC and I have tried to stop doing so. The cases with regards to ANI:3RR is complicated, as in the July 2021 one who reported me was making questionable image additions to exoplanet articles using computer-generated program
1037:, when the consensus was reached more than two years earlier. There were three editors (Nioni1234, AndrewHat250, and myself) who could be assumed to be interested in changing that consensus to add the Helene article. Content should not be locked based on a discussion more than two years in the past.
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accusations, I can explain why one might think that: I have a history of reading but not replying to said messages left on my talk page, but I do see them and take into account the dialogue. I should note also end up forgetting to reply (and especially in the last few years) because I am getting more
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If you look again at the edit summary for the reversion to the redirect, it does indeed contain a link to the consensus. However, I don't deny the accompanying message as sounding rude and BITEy. This behavior has been encouraged off-wiki in the discord chat by some of the same people who encouraged
1604:
Please re-read what I said above: "It crosses the line from deficient communication to IDHT when they repeat their behavior after being warned against it." Your actions speak louder than your words. On the point about canvassing, an editor having already been involved in a discussion does not make
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and his additions were already questioned on his talk page (the discussion got heated as the user was accusing me of not knowing copyright license and trying to make up new arguments despite not even trying to). The second in
October 2020 was by an IP whose course of actions was to go right to the
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The
Arbitration Committee accepted private evidence in this case. Like with all evidence, Arbitrators, including the drafters, will make individual decisions on how much weight to give to each piece of submitted evidence. In making this decision Arbitrators will consider how the evidence complies
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I don't know if it is an unfair expectation on my part (if it is then I apologize), but I expect a person trying to overturn a prior consensus on merging an article to get consensus before creating the article again. Not recreate the article and then see if it is okay for it to stay. I had to get
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Knowledge (XXG) is a community effort and is governed by the consensus of participants. Consensus of
Wikipedians can only legitimately be achieved on Knowledge (XXG), and any agreements between persons made off the official discussion venues of Knowledge (XXG) have no validity within the editing
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Editors who revert a change proposed by an edit should generally avoid terse explanations (such as "against consensus") which provide little guidance to the proposing editor (or, if you do use such terse explanations, it is helpful to also include a link to the discussion where the consensus was
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It is unclear to what extent all of this actually affected the ultimate outcome. Ultimately, nothing was ever done with the article, with discussion just petering out. The article was never merged, nor much else done. Whether the off-wiki discussions diffusing energy to various different venues
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The revert was not only terse but rude, and did not provide a link to where the consensus was formed. It simply stated that there was a consensus, and provided no opportunity for discussion. The systemic problem is that no information was provided as to the consensus and no opportunity for
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As
Hurricane Noah notes, other editors are not normally aware of a draft until it is submitted. The other side is that the editors who submitted the draft appear not to have been aware of a consensus, which caused them to work on a draft in the reasonable but incorrect hope that it might be
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The following discussions have been stealth canvassed via mention off-wiki. As far as I know, off-wiki mention and discussion was the extent of the canvassing. I'm not sure exactly what private evidence has been submitted by others, but this is as far as my own recollection goes for major
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A few days later, I finally read MarioProtIV's reply. Although satisfied with his promise to improve his behavior, I was uncertain what to do about the closure itself and asked at ANI. TheresNoTime latched onto the off-wiki discussion aspect and requested a
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points out that the consensus to merge was on an archive of the hurricane season talk page. That discussion was in 2019. On the one hand, there was not off-wiki coordination. On the other hand, the reverting of my acceptance of the draft illustrates
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caused attention and interest to scatter and dissipate or that happened on its own, I can only guess. What is clear, however, is that the off-wiki discussions caused confusion to editors unaware of them (namely me), causing a significant waste of time.
1111:- Ongoing discussion; everything from this point onwards was discussed off-wiki following the implementation of a new color scale that many disagreed with. People were arguing over the scale that was implemented and trying to find a better alternative.
1123:- October 2021; I discussed this off-wiki with some of the people who had already participated in the discussion on-wiki to clarify what I meant out of convenience. In the case of MarioProtIV, the purpose was to come to some kind of mutual agreement.
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for a merger in 2019 due to lack of effects. An article containing roughly the same amount of content or even less content, the latter being true in this case, shouldn't be created without a consensus to overturn the merger.
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I wasn’t refusing to accept the answer, I wanted to address a possible concern some people might have with the discrepancy between maps and infoboxes while the case is ongoing and awaiting a verdict. And I will admit it was
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MarioProtIV did not heed my request to undo his reversion, nor did he address this in his reply. If I had to guess, he believed I would consider my request moot after reading his explanation of what had happened
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29:
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I have reviewed numerous draft articles on tropical storms. I accept them if they appear to be adequately sourced and to contain enough information to expand on the article about the tropical storm season. A
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which I recently attempted to close. Level one bullets are simple timeline and statements of fact plainly contained in the evidence; level two points are my notes on and interpretations of the evidence:
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Again, I would argue this is a systemic problem rather than something any one person did on their own. I have had my own articles redirected multiple times when I was a newcomer by MarioProtIV, such as
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1033:, either by Hurricane Noah, or by the WikiProject. The reverting was done with a command not to recreate the child article on the hurricane, and without providing any opportunity to discuss whether
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Over the next five months, three additional editors voiced support for the original merge proposal (bringing the total to five editors favoring the merge and one opposing, excluding
Hurricane Noah)
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ANI board despite no evidence of 3RR. The third and final was an old report from
December 2017 that got stale and didn’t get anywhere and was mainly over unnecessary information being added into
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a long comment on MarioProtIV's talk page explaining that unilaterally reverting closures is inappropriate and that his conduct was generally too aggressive, and asked him to undo his reversion.
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I would say that the evidence presented above by
Compassionate727, in addition to showing a history of edit warring and deficient communication, also shows in particular a tendency towards
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his support for an alternative proposal and asked MarioProtIV to comment, saying he would implement it if MarioProtIV agreed and nobody else objected; MarioProtIV never responded on-wiki
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MarioProtIV does not respond to most questions and concerns on his talk page. Once, he archived a new user's question about his edits without answering, prompting another editor to
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Under policy and procedure we are unable to provide other information about private evidence at this time and may not be able to answer questions about this information.
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In response to feedback on the talk page that my evidence seemed somewhat dated, I have reversed the chronological order of links and divided them into sections by year.
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which is precisely what happened. It would seem, therefore, that HN objected to the redirect's instructions from being carried out even though they reverted back to it.
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territory). I wanted to see what people wanted to say (and I probably shouldn’t have put an edit request in but I thought by doing so would make the connection as to
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive448#User%3AUnited_States_Man_reported_by_User%3AElijahandskip_%28Result%3A_No_action%29
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Any further edits made to this page may be reverted by an arbitrator or arbitration clerk without discussion. If you need to edit or modify this page, please go
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1456:: ABF, BITE, OWN for starters.Note also that these are all demonstrably on-Wiki and are distinct—albeit not separate—from the allegations of canvassing.
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respectively, many months indeed after the 2019 "consensus" was formed (in a discussion lasting all of three days, by the by). This wasn't archived until
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907:, it seems that he has received fewer warnings recently partially, although not entirely, because of a corresponding decrease in overall activity.
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MarioProtIV has received comments and questions on his talk page about inadequately explained edits, including reverts and content removal (2021:
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As I understand it, Hurricane Noah did not plan to treat the already lodged votes favoring the original merge proposal as relevant "objections"
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Participants&diff=1019969094&oldid=1019331649
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1394:, that the previous consensus has been called into sufficient doubt as to honor Robert McClenon's good faith acceptance of the page at AfC.
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Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tropical_cyclones/Archive_47#Upcoming_merger_of_WPTC_and_other_meteorology_WikiProjects_into_WikiProject_Weather
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1552:, except for the most recent one in March 2022, and even then only after I commented that ignoring such warnings was not acceptable.
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I don't know why he felt he needed to speak on
LightandDark2000's behalf here, but they clearly had communicated about this off-wiki
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive334#Continuing_disruptive_editing_from_User%3AFleurDeOdile
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Although not directly related to the case, MarioProtIV has several notes on his talk page about adding unsourced material (2021:
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Apparently unable to accept that others have rejected their argument that the new colors are confusing, Mario chose to drag on
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I asked
Hurricane Noah about the revert, and was told that there had been consensus at "this talk page". I then asked whether
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and that he did not want to create any more project drama, which I understood as referring to the controversial map colors RfC
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expect a person trying to overturn a prior consensus on merging an article to get consensus before creating the article again
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1067#Chicdat%27s_involvement_in_admin_areas
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On 23 and early 24 October, LightandDark2000, MarioProtIV, and
Destroyeraa !voted; LightandDark2000 supported, MarioProtIV
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It crosses the line from deficient communication to IDHT when they repeat their behavior after being warned against it.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=March_20%E2%80%9322,_2018_nor%27easter&diff=1079623105&oldid=1079613057
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=March_20%E2%80%9322,_2018_nor%27easter&diff=1076744691&oldid=1076744259
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=March_20%E2%80%9322,_2018_nor%27easter&diff=1076741165&oldid=1076726461
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The following evidence was received privately as part of longer evidence submissions but involves public information:
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FleurDeOdile's ANI/Topic ban proposal - August 2021 (This is when the server was collectively warned about canvassing)
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1440:. However, those who he expected to do so—presumably AndrewHat250 and Nioni1234—did not join Knowledge (XXG) until
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on their talk page (not including numerous other ones that don't use the phrase "engaged in an edit war", such as
1274:. If anything, this should be addressed for the whole topic area since others are guilty of doing the same thing.
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It's worth noting that while HN's edit summary reverting the article creation gave somewhat vehement instruction
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is a blatant example of on-wiki canvassing as well, the wording "unfortunately" making it highly non-neutral. --
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that following off-wiki discussion with Hurricane Noah, he now supported a merge, and collapsed his former vote
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such a notification not canvassing, and if anything, canvassing is often at its worst when you notify someone
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stupid to act the way I did on that module and I probably lost my cool there (which I will admit crossed into
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17:
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Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Weather#RfC:_Changing_the_color_scheme_for_storm_colors_to_make_it_more_accessible
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive333#Kashmorwiki%27s_sockpuppet_block
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1117:- November 2021; Initial RfC was discussed off-wiki to find a viable alternative to my initial proposal.
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873:) which, combined with other patterns I noted above, suggests that MarioProtIV is not getting the point.
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Knowledge (XXG):Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Membership guidelines
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1064#FleurDeOdile
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The edit summary says: Do not recreate this as there is standing consensus against it existing.
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MarioProtIV has received numerous comments and warnings on his talk page for edit warring (2022:
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I don’t think consensus was ever reached for this given it died out - should close this as such
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and several others off-wiki had agreed on a different kind of process we’d do with the article
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that following off-wiki discussion with MarioProtIV, he now supported an alternative proposal
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?oldid=1055271010#Chicdat_and_disruptive_editing_at_WP:RfP
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Talk:2018_Atlantic_hurricane_season/Archive_2#Merger_proposal_with_Hurricane_Helene_(2018)
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It being already established that they have canvassed off-wiki, in this latest incident,
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behavior. One reason for adding this section is to show a new instance of this behavior
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https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Chicdat/Archive_6#Improper_Move_Request_closures
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that he withdrew his proposal after MarioProtIV posted a closure request on Discord
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be merged; he revised his statement several times, the last of which was 23 October
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https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Chicdat/Archive_6#Some_recent_problematic_edits
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On-wiki discussions which may have been unduly influenced by off-wiki discussions
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corrected 22:03, 30 March 2022 (UTC); the new editor restored the section himself
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discussions. They are listed in chronological order from most recent to oldest.
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before using the last evidence template, please make a copy for the next person
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Knowledge (XXG):Arbitration/Requests/Case/WikiProject Tropical Storms/Evidence
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Knowledge (XXG):In_the_news/Candidates/March_2021#(Posted)_2021_America's_Cup
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Talk:February_2021_North_American_ice_storm#Requested_move_17_February_2021
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The Committee has received the following categories of private evidence:
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anyway. I count five editors at the discussion who are against his view.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Chicdat/Archive_6#in_over_your_head
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MarioProtIV has a history of edit warring and deficient communication
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to recreate, te redirect HN was reverting to contained the template
671:. He apologized for his behavior, which included an admission that:
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Membership guidelines
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User talk:MarioProtIV/Archive 2#Subtropical Depression One (2017)
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Accusations of coordinated editing, canvassing & harassment.
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While arbcom does not deal with article content, I suggest, per
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Off-wiki discussions on Discord concerning on-wiki discussions
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on private evidence and the community feedback offered in the
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to the season article, thus de facto reverting my acceptance:
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probably I sometimes priories off-wiki consensus over on-wiki
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The next day, I asked Hurricane Noah why he had withdrawn; he
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One plausible explanation is that the consensus was off-wiki.
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Talk:February_13–17,_2021_North_American_winter_storm#Merger
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One other thing worth noting: if you look at MarioProtIV's
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that he and LightandDark2000 do not have time to enact a
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since it was disputed so I expect the same for others.
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link is then added to the season article. I reviewed
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1197:: I would like to note that consensus was reached at
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Merger proposal was affected by off-wiki discussions
1166:Copied from Hurricane Noah's talk page by request.
1571:MarioProtIV canvassed on-wiki as well as off-wiki
1557:User talk:MarioProtIV/Archive 2#A word of caution
786:three times, one of which resulted in a warning (
571:February 13–17, 2021 North American winter storm
637:the merger proposal as "withdrawn/no consensus"
1626:Summary of private evidence received by ArbCom
1541:I count eight explicit edit warring warnings
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688:In his preliminary statement, Hurricane Noah
620:by an IP editor, finding a consensus to merge
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8:
1555:Other warnings have gone unheeded, such as
1109:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Weather#Comments
56:The Evidence phase for this case is closed.
1537:To add on to Compassionate727's evidence:
616:the original merge discussion following a
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1474:Off-wiki discussion has no weight on-wiki
1378:Evidence presented by Serial Number 54129
1217:consensus before creating an article for
1142:Talk:Tropical storms Amanda and Cristobal
1089:Timeline of stealth canvassed discussions
843:it, although he still did not answer it (
1609:of their prior opinions on the topic.--
1548:), out of which they have responded to
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1423:create an article from this redirect (
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1155:Response to Robert McClenon's evidence
1021:Addendum in Response to Hurricane Noah
960:I added a link to the season article:
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547:Evidence presented by Compassionate727
921:Evidence presented by Robert McClenon
7:
1294:Response to Compassionate’s evidence
1084:Evidence presented by Hurricane Noah
656:Following Hurricane Noah's reply, I
307:Clarification and Amendment requests
1502:MarioProtIV has a tendency towards
1398:Regarding Hurricane Noah's evidence
997:Talk:2018 Atlantic hurricane season
929:redirected-deleted after acceptance
1332:Response to Jasper Deng’s evidence
627:my closure with the edit summary:
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1492:Evidence presented by Jasper Deng
1289:Evidence presented by MarioProtIV
965:Hurricane Noah reverted my link:
782:MarioProtIV has been reported to
675:, and promised to behave better.
1592:Replies to MarioProtIV's replies
1469:Comment presented by Pbsouthwood
1425:unless moving a ready draft here
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633:9 minutes later, Hurricane Noah
580:, Destroyeraa was mostly neutral
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1559:, which required a followup at
1352:I was doing so). Regarding the
1259:Response to Serial Number 54129
646:not … standard and simple merge
1543:beginning about four years ago
1436:to RMcCl's evidence that they
623:11 minutes later, MarioProtIV
597:On 1 November, Hurricane Noah
583:On 24 October, Hurricane Noah
565:On 20 October, Hurricane Noah
556:The following pertains to the
1:
1309:2017–18 North American winter
30:WikiProject Tropical Cyclones
995:I do not see a consensus at
438:Conflict of interest reports
590:On 26 October, Destroyeraa
267:Search archived proceedings
208:Knowledge (XXG) Arbitration
18:Knowledge (XXG):Arbitration
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1617:21:35, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
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1211:20:41, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
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1079:05:14, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
1047:05:49, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
1016:20:30, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
970:Hurricane Noah redirected
915:22:13, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
898:22:03, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
884:18:58, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
705:17:10, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
312:Arbitrator motion requests
1463:15:25, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
1327:05:44, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
1283:19:48, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
1144:- Early 2021 (page moves)
1103:01:33, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
1637:2020 anti-harassment RfC
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953:I accepted the article:
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1531:Module:Storm categories
1195:Hurricane Helene (2018)
972:Hurricane Helene (2018)
946:Hurricane Helene (2018)
927:Hurricane Helene (2018)
845:permalink to discussion
1193:'s evidence regarding
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663:That day, MarioProtIV
84:Preliminary statements
1035:consensus had changed
508:Track related changes
368:Arbitration Committee
1419:explicitly instructs
1412:R with possibilities
1057:Consensus can change
1052:Addendum to Addendum
317:Enforcement requests
245:Guide to arbitration
166:Drafting arbitrators
1026:User:Hurricane Noah
1633:Arbitration Policy
905:edit count by year
841:question him about
578:"strongly" opposed
339:Contentious topics
237:Arbitration policy
1446:22 September 2020
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1031:article ownership
988:User:AndrewHat250
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349:General sanctions
297:All open requests
227:About arbitration
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145:GeneralNotability
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117:Proposed decision
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34:(Redirected from
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1517:this very case:
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558:merge discussion
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1450:11 October 2020
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1298:In response to
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618:closure request
612:On 22 March, I
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1442:31 July 2021
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1392:factispecies
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1611:Jasper Deng
1600:MarioProtIV
1581:Jasper Deng
1361:MarioProtIV
1337:Jasper Deng
1315:MarioProtIV
1164:Clerk note:
1132:- June 2021
272:Ban appeals
250:Noticeboard
130:Case clerks
1004:accepted.
599:reaffirmed
478:(pre-2016)
465:Statistics
398:Procedures
134:Guerillero
1631:with the
1064:formed).
592:commented
585:commented
403:Elections
1432:HN says
1368:contribs
1322:contribs
1304:Celestia
1059:states:
861:; 2018:
829:; 2017:
813:; 2018:
809:; 2020:
784:WP:AN3RR
755:; 2017:
735:; 2018:
731:; 2020:
723:; 2021:
690:admitted
679:off-wiki
667:that he
625:reverted
567:proposed
170:Primefac
106:Workshop
95:Evidence
28: |
24: |
22:Requests
20: |
1607:because
1511:WP:IDHT
1504:WP:IDHT
1459:SN54129
1421:not to
1417:; this
1388:Remark:
1354:WP:IDHT
1346:WP:IDLI
1169:firefly
838:restore
665:replied
642:replied
475:Reports
413:History
393:Members
388:Contact
376:Discuss
240:(CU/OS)
156:Firefly
1614:(talk)
1584:(talk)
1529:it at
1515:during
1271:, and
635:closed
614:closed
418:Clerks
276:Report
192:Cabayi
190:&
179:&
154:&
143:&
569:that
452:Audit
16:<
1577:this
1550:zero
1444:and
1342:very
1278:Noah
1246:Noah
1225:Noah
1206:Noah
1098:Noah
1075:talk
1043:talk
1012:talk
986:and
939:main
685:case
658:left
469:Talk
460:Talk
427:Talk
407:Talk
261:Talk
231:Talk
197:Talk
186:Talk
175:Talk
161:Talk
150:Talk
139:Talk
122:Talk
111:Talk
100:Talk
89:Talk
78:Talk
60:here
26:Case
1405:not
1350:why
343:Log
181:BDD
1639:.
1485::
1415:}}
1409:{{
1371:)
1365:(/
1325:)
1319:(/
1268:,
1177:·
1173:(
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948::
942:}}
936:{{
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168::
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