558:. A rivalry is worth keeping if notability exists which was proved in the first source. Rivalries don't have to be currently toxic; they can have historical clout like Brady-Manning. These teams have met 7 times in the playoffs (one of the most played NFL playoff match-ups) and have the Herschel Walker trade and Hail Mary as significant NFL cultural lore events associated with it (most NFL rivalry pages don't have any "lore" associated with). This was considered one of the best NFL rivalries in the 1970's. 3 of their last 4 games have been primetime games which means the NFL views the match-up favorably. I think if this page doesn't survive, than the discussion on AFD will be opened by me on Giants-Packers, Cowboys-Rams, Titans-Ravens, and Giants-49ers. All of these are equivalent to this - a non-divisional match-up with lots of historical match-ups and notability to back it up.
913:
to make on those pages (because they are analogous to this page) is that we need consistency in whether a page should exist simply because of current heat (think
Packers-Bears, Eagles-Cowboys) or whether lore / iconic NFL moments / 70's & 80's rivalries that happened decades ago can justify a page existing. In this match-up, the Hail Mary and Herschel Walker trade are iconic NFL moments. That may be a reason to have this page. It may not either but then we go down the discussion of deleting Cowboys-Rams too based on the same premise. The goal is to be consistent in how we evaluate these rivalries.
884:- Like Rlendong said, they may not be rivals now, but there were three dominant teams in the NFC during the 1970's, the Cowboys, Rams, and Vikings. these three would be in the hunt for the Super Bowl and would win their division almost every year. The Vikings were also on the receiving ends of two extremely import moments in NFL history in both the Hail Mary and the Herschel Walker Trade; both of which are so significant that they received their own articles on this website. So in short, I think this topic is very much deserving of its own article.
853:
Giants), or teams that are great at the same time and compete multiple times in the Super Bowl or to get to the Super Bowl (Raiders-Steelers, Cowboys-49ers). Some of these are punctuated with particularly memorable games (Hail Mary for
Cowboys-Vikings, Immaculate Reception for Raiders-Steelers, The Catch for 49ers-Cowboys) that help solidify the rivalry. But if you could make a case for rivalry articles about any pair of teams then that wouldn't be a problem if it was backed up by enough reliable sources.
801:
enmity did exist has definitely waned by now. As I said further down, the NFL has been going for so long that you're bound to find periods when any two given teams met on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean they're actually rivals. The
Vikings have had some notable games against the Seahawks in recent years (e.g. the Wide Left game), but that doesn't mean that the Seahawks and the Vikings are rivals, just like the Cowboys and Vikings aren't rivals either. –
527:, with the caveat that the sources that were presented, though valid, do stress that this rivalry was most prominent in the 1970's, yet the article itself almost exclusively highlights games from 1989-2021. There isn't anything wrong with this in principle, but I think the article just needs to be re-vamped to highlight the matchups during the 1970's. Just my opinion, but I will change my vote to
817:"Enmity" is a very strong term and I think it is rare that even fierce rivals consider themselves enemies. I agree that the rivalry between the Cowboys and Vikings has waned, but that is irrelevant. They were rivals for a period, as validated by reliable sources that literally call it a "rivalry", and the resulting notability of that rivalry is not temporary.
739:- They may not be particular rivals now, but they were in the 1970s (as evidenced by BeanieFan11's sources) when one of these two teams played in the Super Bowl almost every year and they played each other in the playoffs four times, including twice in the conference championship game and once in the Hail Mary game. Notability is not temporary.
1086:. It also needs several citations. Not disputing the raw content about the games, but it does seem to undercut the argument about this being a huge rivalry in the 1970's, since most of what's highlighted are in the decades following. I'm not trying to make this more difficult, just noting my thoughts on the matter.
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I understand that PoV completely. One thing I'd like to add, is that if this page stays, it seems like it needs a bit of an overhaul. It's generally understood based on what I'm reading that the rivalry was at it's strongest during the 1970's, which is true. Most of the part of the article discusses
912:
Just responding to this, it seems its moving closer to 50-50 on keep vs delete but maybe still a slight preference in favor of delete. My only preference is that we let this run its course with the other pages being contemplated with AFD (Cowboys-Rams, Giants-Packers). The key distinction I am trying
852:
I doubt you can make a case for rivalry articles about any pair of teams. For example, I am not convinced that the Eagles-Vikings rivalry article is notable. Notable rivalries will generally be teams in the same division that play each other often, teams in the same geographic areas (e.g., Jets and
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There are not multiple articles stating that this is a rivalry. There are articles stating that the two teams were competitive in the 1970s, but that's because they were both two of the best teams in the NFC at the time. Whether there was any enmity between them has not been established, and whatever
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in particular, set a standard for whether a topic is noteworthy enough to have its own page. That is significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. And this rivalry satisfies that. The fact that the rivalry was primarily strong in the 1970s rather than now is irrelevant. The fact
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I'm not sure why you think "enmity" is a strong term, I didn't mean it as such. Either way, as I said, if you create a rivalry article for the
Vikings and Cowboys in 2021 based on a tenuous claim of rivalry in the 1970s, you could make a case for rivalry articles for pretty much any pair of teams in
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There are multiple articles stating that this was a rivalry. That is not OR. That is GNG. These were the dominant NFC teams in the 1970s and anyone who was a football fan then knew they considered themselves rivals, as these articles (and I am sure there were others from 40+ years ago) establish.
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There is no demonstration of an actual rivalry between these two teams. The fans don't look forward to their matchups any more than those against any of their other non-divisional opponents, and any famous games between them can be covered in individual articles, provided notability can be satisfied
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Also, even if this is a "real rivalry," isn't the purpose of this page to determine whether the rivalry was noteworthy enough to have its own page? I'm a little new to this in particular but that's what I've come to understand. The page notes itself that they've only played 33 games, so maybe this
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I understand this POV, but the rest of that part of the article states: "While notability itself is not temporary, from time to time a reassessment of the evidence of notability or suitability of existing articles may be requested by any user via a deletion discussion, or new evidence may arise for
895:
Those two incidents are significant, that's fine, but I don't think the sources listed above actually support the idea that the
Cowboys and Vikings consider each other to be rivals; some of them are even basically the same article (from the Associated Press). They had a brief dalliance, but if you
932:
This discussion needs to pertain to just the notability of the
Cowboys-Vikings rivalry. Should other rivalries be considered candidates for deletion, an AFD can be drafted, but the discussions need to remain separate for each page. (Personally, I can think of a half dozen or so non-divisional
946:"maybe still a slight preference in favor of delete" - all the delete !votes claim a lack of sources but were made before a number of reliable sources were uncovered or based on recentism or the current state of the article, so these aren't really based on policy.
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articles previously deemed unsuitable. Thus, an article may be proposed for deletion months or even years after its creation, or recreated whenever new evidence supports its existence as a standalone article." I'm simply thinking that this should be redirected to
421:. I still think that the term "rivalry" is overused when describing matchups in any sport, but the sources are present to establish there is (or at least was) a rivalry between these two teams. My only objections to this page now fall under
900:), but you've got to establish notability first. The two incidents mentioned are notable and have their own articles, but the idea that meetings between the Vikings and Cowboys down the years constitute a rivalry is rather ludicrous to me. –
1192:
An AFD is NOT a vote, the content and substance of the votes is much more important than the number of votes each way. The decision is made by a closing administrator who is not involved in this decision. More information can be found at
985:. I am not sure what distinction you are trying to make between a "rivalry" and an "actual rivalry" but even if there is a difference, the article refers to the "Cowboys-Vikings Rivalry," not to the "Cowboys-Vikings Actual Rivalry."
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games from 1989-2021, and is in some parts seems to have sensationalized wording, promoting certain players, such as "It was in many ways the introduction to the world of his talents given the stage of the game," referring to
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Those sources claim that the
Vikings and Cowboys were rivals once upon a time based on the fact that they were both competing to be the best team in the NFC, but there's no real claim of an *actual* rivalry. –
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and that they both were activated as franchises around the same time is the only thing that could really make this a rivalry, but other than that, there's really not much to connect them as rivals otherwise.
488:: "Notability is not temporary; once a topic has been the subject of "significant coverage" in accordance with the general notability guideline, it does not need to have ongoing coverage."
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that they only played 33 games is not particularly relevant given the importance of some of those games that led multiple independent reliable sources to write about it as a rivalry.
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This most recent source has literally nothing to do with the two NFL teams, it pertains to a rivalry between two high school teams in
California (nicknamed the Cowboys and Vikings).
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the NFL. The
Vikings–Cowboys "rivalry" simply is not comparable to the Vikings–Packers or Cowboys–Eagles rivalries, or even those of the Vikings–Lions or Cowboys–Giants. –
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in establishing a rivalry between the two teams. The sources provided do little in establishing a rivalry between the teams, compared to what is required by
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if I'm adding this correctly, the votes are Keep 6 Delete 5. I know these usually stay open 7 days but who decides the "final" decision? It seems very split.
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look back in the NFL's 100 years of history, you're bound to find stretches of "rivalry" between any two given teams. Notability may not be temporary (re:
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BeanieFan11 found several sources. And I am sure a more comprehensive database of newspapers and magazines from the 1970s would turn up more.
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that even hints that this is a rivalry, much less a significant one. In fact, just about the only thing that talks about this pairing is
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Reading the entire debate, and seeing some reliable sources, I'm note sure whether I'll still prefer it to be deleted, so switching to
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I agree it needs work but I think a conclusion need to be made on keeping vs deleting before someone puts any more time into it.
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also shows a number of reliable sources from the 1970s and 80s calling this a rivalry. Plenty of sources to establish
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per the sources provided by BeanieFan11 and their shared history in the 1970's. Barely scrapes by
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is another article describing the teams as "rivals", convincing me that this is a notable topic.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Perhaps not now, but BeanieFan11's sources validate that a notable rivalry has existed.
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per nom. No rivalry exists between these two teams. This is evidenced by the lack of
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Per others. This no longer a notable rivalry. If anything, this should redirected to
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Delete – Per others. Also, the prose content is mostly trivia. –
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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The reliable sources literally call it a rivalry. And here is
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Meeting several times in the playoffs is nice, but it is
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list of
American football-related deletion discussions
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43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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589:Note: This discussion has been included in the
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366:Note: This discussion has been included in the
1147:Seven 1970s Rivalries that made the NFL 'Super'
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107:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
349:, but the prose still needs to be fixed. –
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253:"A brief look at Vikings/Cowboys history"
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505:National Football League rivalries
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892:) 8:55, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
664:. I'm slightly leaning towards
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668:but I'm not completely sure.
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82:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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