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don't speak Thai), and even a "Did you know?" facebook post by the other (top division) team (used Google
Translate.) Their Facebook feed is really good and I know it's primary, but since it's meant to advertise the club, it looks as if there may be some secondary coverage linked to on the Facebook page, especially 20 September 2016 it looks as if the club may have been profiled on SMM TV. The FA Cup game they were in definitely received some sort of television coverage from youtube. The article easily passes
680:- I don't believe it is appropriate to read NFOOTY as granting a presumption of notability to every club which enters the qualifying rounds of a national cup competitions (particularly one like the Coupe de France as mentioned above), and a check of online English- and Thai-language sources indicates this club is not the subject of any significant coverage in reliable sources (just mentions of the club in match reports at best). It clearly fails the GNG.
57:
an accepted argument for
European clubs, then the community should consider elevating FOOTYN to a guideline, but this discussion is not the place for that. No evidence has been presented to show that this club meets any other threshold for notability. Policy-based !votes to delete significantly outnumber those to keep, and thus I can only close this as
798:
I think there's a very reasonable argument that can be made here that the "qualification round" is actually part of the cup, as teams from the amateur league have to qualify for the "qualification round" through their participation in the amateur leagues, and teams from divisions 2, 3, 4 enter in the
768:
exist to provide for the inclusion of certain defined subjects that cannot immediately be shown to pass GNG. An SNG provides for a presumption of notability, not a presumption of non-notability An SNG cannot be used to exclude/delete an article when the subject passes GNG, but the reverse is patently
56:
is an essay; it says so in the banner at the top. Regardless of how it's viewed within the football project, such an essay cannot take the place of a more general notability guideline that is created with community input, and as such arguments based on FOOTYN can be given very limited weight. If this
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with lack of significant coverage from multiple independent sources. Unfortunately, even the Thai
Knowledge article is unsourced. Unswayed by those citing essay FOOTYN. Even if we assume a qualifier is part of the national cup, the essay makes an unfounded assumption that every country necessarily
630:
Playing in the qualifying rounds of a national cup is accepted as granting notability for
Australian and English clubs, so not sure why it wouldn't ok here; I appreciate there are cups where thousands of teams can enter (like the Coupe de France), but this club has also played at the fourth level in
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You seem to have ruled out the possibility of in-depth sources covering the subject from your search - does this exclude the possibility of any local sources that aren't online? There's definitely enough sources available to have an article, even if there's relatively little non-primary significant
413:
by playing in a national cup. There is no mention of qualifying rounds not counting whatsoever. The Thai Cup seemingly draws teams at random with league tier being ignored. Dontan have been unlucky to play in the QR twice while other teams of the same tier have been drawn straight into R1. Bad luck
894:
If there were reliable sources that covered this subject, they would in all likelihood be general or sports news publications, most if not all of which have an online presence, as far as I know. In
Thailand, there isn't a news culture that would produce such local coverage, especially for a remote
1048:
I'm willing to defend the assumption as most national cups generate local coverage. For instance, searching for Dontan PCCM brings up a number of mentions in directory listings of the FA Cup game, a number of youtube videos (including one of the FA Cup match, some of which appear secondary but I
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criteria." (bold in source) This phrase seems to support the position of the delete supporters but remains somewhat ambiguous on qualifying rounds or what happens in other cases. Immediately after comes a second phrase that clarifies what happens in other cases: "Teams that are not eligible for
862:
SNGs are useful for when editors lack the time or expertise to search for and/or identify reliable sources relevant to the subject. For example, if no one here was able to read Thai, citing an SNG (though WP:FOOTYN is not one) might be appropriate, since we wouldn't be able to rule out the
582:. There is an interesting discussion above whether qualifying rounds count or not by FOOTYN. The source implies that qualifying rounds suffice. In fact even that it is unneeded. Just qualifying to play without playing in any capacity in the national cup is enough. Rule's first phrase: "
1053:. I know we're probably a media source or two of significant coverage short at the moment, frustrated by the language barrier, but it's not as if an article about this club can't be written at all. A similar level of coverage exists for many teams playing in their national cup.
726:
I don't think anyone is arguing it's unverifiable. It's clearly a Thai football team which plays in a cup - it's not as if we don't have anything to go on, just that the sourcing is mild at best, such as this article which appears to be a disciplinary proceeding:
728:
1090:
The national cups include all sorts of teams, even the amateur ones, as the national cups are different from the league by definition, they give more opportunity to lower level teams too. In addition this team has never been participant in the
803:, where I would strongly argue the preliminary round would qualify for notability, since teams only participate in the tournament at all if they win their county cup, even though the top teams don't enter for another round.
783:
Several editors above, including myself, do not read this SNG (NFOOTBALL) to include clubs that have only played in qualifying rounds - and accordingly compliance with the GNG ought to be considered (if not decisive).
215:
435:. Just because it's called a "qualifying round" doesn't mean it's not a part of the national cup (being one of the last four teams in the amateur cup qualifies you for the preliminary round of the national cup.)
591:
national cups must be shown to meet broader WP:N criteria." This phrase clearly defines the clubs that are not automatically notable. These are the clubs that were never eligible to compete in the national cup.
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Yes - and as I've demonstrated above, there's probably sources (especially Thai television sources, which are difficult to find) which make it probable this club passes
1078:, then this has to be deleted. There is no notability rule that says playing in a national cup infers automatic notability, regardless of what the FOOTYN essay says.
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Unreferenced article about an amateur football club. Is probably notable (participated in Thai FA cup) but there are no sources to verify that. I followed
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teams that have played in the national cup (or the national level of the league structure in countries where no cup exists) are assumed to meet
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372:, has only played in the qualifying rounds of a national cup. No indication of wider GNG for this amateur side.
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PS There's TV coverage as mentioned by
Lerdsuwa below, though I wouldn't consider it particularly in-depth. --
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place like Don Tan. Of course, one can't prove a negative, so I can't say that there's zero possibility. --
736:(Note: I am translating these articles through Google Translate.) And a showing of the league it plays in:
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has videos captured from TV programs from SMMTV channel (the channel belong to a publicly traded company
353:- playing in just the qualifying rounds for the national cup is insufficient. No evidence of notability.
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1152:. I know you've talked about the "walled garden" above, but a team playing in a national cup that fails
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or its
Facebook page, which could be used to flesh out the article even if it doesn't touch notability:
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527:. Searching in Thai, I found zero sources providing in-depth coverage of the subject, thus failing the
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must be shown to meet broader WP:N criteria.In this case this club is clearly eligible to play in the
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974:. Essays by football invested editors in a walled garden do not trump our notability guidelines.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
487:
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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As mentioned above, if GNG trumps any SNG, what is the point of even having SNGs.......? --
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possibility of Thai sources covering the subject. However, that is not the case here. --
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Has played in the national cup. As such, is notable. Not sure what the issue is here.
705:; the lack of verifiable evidence supplants any other discussion regarding this club.
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The
Notability sports page also mentions teams, where it points toward the GNG. —
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Unless there are sources (probably Thai ones) which provide any method of passing
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is. There is no SNG for teams, they must pass the GNG; this is clearly stated at
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absurd because that would negate the entire reason for the existence of SNGs .
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per nom. Not exactly the best reason to delete but it's a valid point
655:- Clubs that have played in a national cup are considered notable per
661:
Knowledge:Articles for deletion/White Ensign F.C. (2nd nomination)
506:
as is the case as any team from Thai FA Cup: Levels 1 to 5 in the
52:. I'm afraid some of the arguments in this AfD are off the mark.
1181:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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the Thai pyramid, so they wouldn't appear to be non-entities.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
1095:, which is the only professional team in the list of the
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per
SportingFlyer and Dougal18. They have played as per
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is a project-advice essay, not a policy or guideline. --
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I've added references for the FA Cup participation. --
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392:, does not have notability and there's no evidence.
940:). So there are some news coverage for the team. --
799:qualification round. An analogous cup would be the
562:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
464:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
274:list of Organizations-related deletion discussions
1031:has reliable, independent, significant coverage.—
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1193:). No further edits should be made to this page.
701:, which supersedes any requirements laid out in
312:Note: This discussion has been included in the
292:Note: This discussion has been included in the
272:Note: This discussion has been included in the
494:.See little point in deleting it.Further per
314:list of Thailand-related deletion discussions
294:list of Football-related deletion discussions
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8:
826:All the keep !votes (a) appear to only cite
116:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
510:is eligible and this club is in Level 5.
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834:, which by default supersedes any SNG. --
1099:. Thus, it doesn't satisfy WP:NFOOTY. --
1117:WP:NFOOTY is for players, not clubs.
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988:Knowledge:Notability_(sports)#Teams
608:- I've invited further input from
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659:. This was mentioned recently at
414:shouldn't be an excuse to delete.
101:Introduction to deletion process
733:or proof it played in the cup:
431:Played in the national cup per
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
500:not eligible for national cups
1:
801:2018–19_Croatian_Football_Cup
250:on this and took it to AFD.
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1129:21:39, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
1109:17:31, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
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934:The team's Youtube channel
508:Thai football league system
91:(AfD)? Read these primers!
71:10:39, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
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1097:Fully professional leagues
1019:20:27, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
1001:16:01, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
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919:17:26, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
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690:16:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
673:14:53, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
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623:14:31, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
663:regarding English clubs.
601:09:40, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
569:04:50, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
545:01:34, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
520:03:59, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
477:08:55, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
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424:17:26, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
402:16:40, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
382:12:53, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
361:07:59, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
346:10:58, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
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266:19:16, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
1183:Please do not modify it.
1156:is an exceptional case.
32:Please do not modify it.
1138:Insertcleverphrasehere
995:Insertcleverphrasehere
771:Pharaoh of the Wizards
512:Pharaoh of the Wizards
89:Articles for deletion
498:Only Teams that are
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1080:Black Kite (talk)
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1093:Thai League
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959:Smartyllama
610:WT:FOOTBALL
504:Thai FA Cup
318:Lepricavark
298:Lepricavark
278:Lepricavark
210:free images
878:coverage.
764:including
470:Sandstein
374:Fenix down
1187:talk page
984:WP:NFOOTY
976:WP:FOOTYN
828:WP:FOOTYN
766:WP:FOOTYN
707:Clyde1998
703:WP:FOOTYN
697:– as per
657:WP:FOOTYN
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533:WP:FOOTYN
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433:WP:FOOTYN
411:WP:FOOTYN
370:WP:FOOTYN
255:Shadowowl
63:Vanamonde
54:WP:FOOTYN
37:talk page
1189:or in a
982:an SNG,
942:Lerdsuwa
932:Comment:
911:Paul_012
897:Paul_012
865:Paul_012
836:Paul_012
824:Comment:
786:Jogurney
682:Jogurney
554:Relisted
537:Paul_012
456:Relisted
416:Dougal18
368:- Fails
338:Lerdsuwa
248:WP:NCLUB
169:View log
110:glossary
39:or in a
1046:Comment
1033:Bagumba
759:Comment
724:Comment
665:LTFC 95
620:Snowman
606:Comment
565:Lourdes
490:in the
409:Passes
394:Yanjipy
358:Snowman
334:Comment
216:WP refs
204:scholar
142:protect
137:history
87:New to
1154:WP:GNG
1150:WP:GNG
1101:1l2l3k
1088:Delete
1076:WP:GNG
1072:Delete
1028:WP:GNG
1026:Fails
1024:Delete
972:Delete
832:WP:GNG
699:WP:NRV
695:Delete
678:Delete
634:Number
593:gidonb
529:WP:GNG
525:Delete
390:WP:NRV
387:Delete
366:Delete
351:Delete
188:Google
146:delete
59:delete
50:delete
617:Giant
355:Giant
231:JSTOR
192:books
176:Stats
163:views
155:watch
151:links
16:<
1163:talk
1124:talk
1105:talk
1060:talk
1051:WP:V
1037:talk
990:. —
963:talk
955:Keep
946:talk
915:talk
901:talk
885:talk
869:talk
854:talk
840:talk
810:talk
790:talk
775:talk
762:SNGs
745:talk
711:talk
686:talk
669:talk
653:Keep
628:Keep
613:here
597:talk
588:WP:N
578:per
576:Keep
541:talk
516:talk
488:this
484:Keep
442:talk
429:Keep
420:talk
407:Keep
398:talk
378:talk
342:talk
322:talk
302:talk
282:talk
261:talk
224:FENS
198:news
159:logs
133:talk
129:edit
67:talk
980:NOT
978:is
584:All
238:TWL
167:– (
1107:)
1039:)
965:)
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917:)
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871:)
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842:)
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276:.
258:|
252:»
218:)
161:|
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69:)
61:.
1103:(
1035:(
961:(
944:(
913:(
899:(
867:(
852:(
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644:7
639:5
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280:(
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234:·
228:·
220:·
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190:(
182:(
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172:·
165:)
127:(
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108:(
65:(
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